Interesting link

[mrhaney]

Just caught this link on another forum and not being too good on the computer I hope I manage to attach it here. A sad statement about club "standards". Here goes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8i3gCi9fHA&NR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8i3gCi9fHA&NR)

[Grass Roots Tour]

How true... how true.

This, along with the expense of new equipment coming out every 6 months, is one of the reasons I buy 2 year old technology and have it re-built entirely to my specs. This way I KNOW the shaft flex is right, the frequencies are correct throughout the set, and the swingweights are dead on throughout the set.

Most club ho's knew this quite some time ago but a lot of this info is fairly new to me as well. I always believed OEM companies would produce a far better, tighter tolleranced product but they simply do not.

[nearace]

does this happen at the reputable manafacturers level or at the lower end of cost .and the knock-offs im sure they are made with less quality control ?

[danscustomgolfshop]

This sort of thing can happen just between production runs at the manufacturer. Did you also happen to notice how the shaft oscolated off plane very quickly by the one shaft. People need to be informed that by removing these conditions from a club that the club will perform differently.
I have seen shafts that have 1 full flex difference just on how you orientate the said shaft. A XX degree rotation of the shaft can change the flex. I have seen iron sets that will be R and S in the same set but be labled A flex.
Education my friends

[mrhaney]

does this happen at the reputable manafacturers level or at the lower end of cost .and the knock-offs im sure they are made with less quality control ?
This is not so much a question of quality control as lack of standards. One of those clubs had a Ping shaft which could be made by anybody and the other had a Grafalloy Blue which is decent shaft. I've done basically the same test at GT by taking 2 clubs from the same manufacturer with different brands of shafts labelled stiff and regular. Tried them on the similator and couldn't find any appreciable difference in feel, length or dispersion. Had one of the club builders check them on the frequency machine. The "regular" was slightly stiffer than the "stiff". Just shows you that you have to know what the shaft really is not what it is labelled as. That being said butt frequency is not a great measure of a shaft since the profile varies so much from one manufacturer to another anymore. In regards to your question about reputable manufacturers remember they build their clubs on an assemble line. Grass Roots Tour has a great idea with getting used clubs reshafted by a club builder who knows what he is doing. Sort of the same as buying a custom made suit as opposed as buying one off the rack. Might be a quality brand name suit but what good is it if it isn't your size?

[looper]

Just caught this link on another forum and not being too good on the computer I hope I manage to attach it here. A sad statement about club "standards". Here goes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8i3gCi9fHA&NR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8i3gCi9fHA&NR)

This isn't surprising - every manufacturer's standards are different and even then when you mass produce equipment there will be variances between equipment even though they are the same make.

The other thing to remember is that all shafts (especially graphite shafts) need to be splined, which is basically ensuring that the shaft is correctly aligned relative to the club face. A good club fitter will help you with this by putting your club in a frequency machine to see whether the shaft was put in correctly. All graphite shafts are not perfectly round because they are rolled on layer after layer and have a seam where the graphite is joined.

As for the variances between clubs - I remember 2 years ago a buddy of mine demo-ing 2 Cobra drivers for about 2/3 weeks - same shaft, same flex, same loft, same grip - 1 from GT, the other from Nevadas. The one Cobra driver, he couldn't hit to save his life - all he did was hit low diving hooks. The other Cobra driver, he hit like a champ and ultimately bought it.

[golfinseb]

The question in point is that there is no way for an uneducated consumer to know what he/she is really buying. Which is why reputable clubfitters exist.

Until there is a standard we will always have people there to help us choose the right product for our needs. This is no different than anything else, we can choose to have our cars fixed at the dealership or a joe blows mechanics. It's up to you and you alone to either learn what is needed, or pay someone who already knows what is needed.

[danscustomgolfshop]

Graphite shafts are build over a very tight toleranced mandrel, so the ID is very consistant, however it is the sanding of the external graphite where the variences exist. Shaft profiling is a very difficult subject, and a good builder understands what he or she is looking for. The biggest thing I feel helps is hand picking and sorting the chosen batch of shafts to reduce the variability between clubs. All tolerances can be reduced in variation resulting in a set that will feel consistant between clubs.

[TourIQ]

This, along with the expense of new equipment coming out every 6 months, is one of the reasons I buy 2 year old technology and have it re-built entirely to my specs. This way I KNOW the shaft flex is right, the frequencies are correct throughout the set, and the swingweights are dead on throughout the set.
Hi Will

You are definitely in the minority, and very very smart, knowing how to take your game to the next plateau. Few guys every get to your handicap level, now you find another way to gain further entitlement, aimed at lasting improvement. I too buy discontinued 2-3 year old OEM clubs just to get the heads, so they may be rebuilt to a tolerance that exceed what tour players would use each day.

The worst graphite shaft I have seen had a 'Delta Frequency Differential' of 15 cpm between the S and the N plane. This is a full 1.5 flexes. When twanged, it is a 'severe wobbler'. With laser attached projected to a wall 30 feet away, it wobbles from vertical to horizontal, to vertical, to horizontal, etc., and it also reverses direction from clockwise to counterclockwise, to clockwise, to counterclockwise, etc., until it comes to rest. Rotate this same shaft to its optimal 'sweet' position and the laser tracks on a perfect vertical line that is 1/4 of an inch wide, from 6' long, to 5 .... until it comes to rest. Imagine, in 1 orientation this shaft is a Firm flex, in a different orientation it is a Senior flex. No wonder most clubs with graphite shafts exhibit the wrong flex.

Many tour professionals struggle to keep their PGA Tour card, the majority of the time miss playing the weekend. Would they benefit from clubs dialed to absolute perfection? They also suboptimize their game in other ways like signing a 14-club endorsement deal to play one Name Brand. They also change shafts and tinker with their clubs far too frequently, many times the day before an event [not real bright]. They they wonder why the next year they get to play Q-school ...

The ‘APPALLING' ...
Regarding the expensive Name Brand OEM Clubs, here is what a Clubmaker said on a forum.
Last winter, I disassembled a new set of Hogan Apex blades for a 0 handicap golfer, and a set of new Titleist blades [I forget the model number] for a golfer who will be playing the Canadian Tour this coming year. Of these 16 wonderful OEM's, 6 heads had the hosel bore drilled off centre, no two consecutive irons had the same swingweight, consecutive irons differed by as much as 12 cpm's [exceeds a full flex], there was absolutely no pattern to the frequencies [shaft stiffness] from club-to-club, and in one set the 6-iron was stiffer than the 7-iron [it should be more flexible] and so on. Each set retailed for $900 to $1050 CAD.

The ‘HORRIFIC’ ...
Regarding Graphite Shaft Profiling, here is what a Clubmaker said on a forum.
As you get more and more into shaft profiling, you'll also find that there are shafts with identical bend profiles that feel and play nothing like one another. It's a fun part of trying to understand the golf shaft. There is one problem with the data set - at least the last time I saw it - shafts are profiled in very small "sets" and generally from the same run from the manufacturer. I have 50 different shafts profiled in the same model and flex from a very well known shaft company. These shafts were purchased from different sources, at just a few at a time. They profile into nearly 6 different shafts - very, VERY different shaft profiles. You can't even average them, and the profile in the database is not really representative of the shafts that I have either. Consistency or a very large sample size are needed to get a picture of how weak or poor a shaft profile may be as a representation of a particular shaft model and flex. [Tim @ myOstrich]

The 'PERFECT’ …
Regarding a Golfer, who is playing 'Balanced and Blueprinted' Custom Fitted Clubs
[[U]first 2 weeks of play].
You may be interested to know that I have now been within a foot of a 'hole-in-one' on 3 separate occasions. Twice with a 9 iron 135-40 yards. The 3rd was today on a 160 yard, left to right wind, 8 iron. I landed it 2 feet short and rolled it within inches of the cup to stop about 10 inches past. I can say that after 3 rounds this weekend, I am loving these clubs! They are just so sweet its nuts. They feel so good to hit. The weights of the clubs are just perfect. I birdied the very first hole I played! All the clubs are so accurate it’s scary. The Pro-Soft inserts really make a world of difference in the feel of the club. I shot an 84 yesterday [my personal best low round], and I don’t feel like I played my best. [Clubmaker Not Specified]

[wayland]

Harry, what do the pro soft inserts do?

Is it like sensicore?

[TourIQ]

Harry, what do the pro soft inserts do?
Is it like sensicore?
Hi wayland

Pro-Soft is significantly superior to Sensicore. Sensicore is a quick way to rust out a shaft and have it break right through the grip region. Sensicore shafts are very expensive so you pay a premium just for them to break prematurely. Sensicore reduces about 70% of the harsh vibration, while a Pro-Soft insert reduces it by 50+%. Also it sure make it easy on the hands when you play early spring or late fall :D It also makes a stainless iron head feel more like forged. Pro-Soft Inserts is just used for steel shafts. No need to put them in graphite.
I hope this answered your question.

[Golfbum]

Harry, what do the pro soft inserts do?

Is it like sensicore?

I have installed Pro Soft Inserts in my Wishon 550C's and my TNT Grinder MB's. Both of these sets are forged.

I agree 100% with Harry's statement. Let me say, on a day when the tempatures range around -2C to +5C those Pro Softs make the world of difference on your hands, wrists etc. (Yes I have been known to play on days like that :D )
You feel no vibration. This will carry over into any weather of course. People might tend to say "You loose any feedback if you hit a bad shot with those things in your shafts" Well if you hit a bad shot you should know it anyways, you sure do not need your fingers to be vibrated :)
If you have any problems with arthritis I recommend getting the inserts installed by a club builder. I know I am happy I have them in my irons now.

[Johnson]

So what is the likelihood that the S300's in my clubs are more of a regular flex then? as I never had them custom built.

[TourIQ]

So what is the likelihood that the S300's in my clubs are more of a regular flex then? as I never had them custom built.

Without checking it comes down to 'probability ... flip a coin'.
> Heads they are stiffer than marked.
> Tails they are softer than marked.

A 3rd option > they are ALL over the place regarding flex :rofl:

If you have any problems with arthritis I recommend getting the inserts installed by a club builder. I know I am happy I have them in my irons now.

Yes Golfbum they are great for anyone with Arthritis or Joint problems ... :D

[Johnson]

How much could it cost to have a club fitter assess the flex of your clubs?