Golf Digest Hot List - 2007

[chimpboy_to]

It's here! It's here! Let the debates begin, but I do love being able to hear the contact of the ball on the driver :)


http://golfdigest.com/hotlist/

[TourIQ]

It's here! It's here! Let the debates begin, but I do love being able to hear the contact of the ball on the driver :)
http://golfdigest.com/hotlist/

Pretty much useless. Every head gets a Gold or Silver except 1 head.
Might mean something if every OEM wasn't a paid advertiser for years.

[The Troll]

I read how something got on the list last year....had to do with buzz in the golf biz, advertising, tour usage etc....pretty much has nothing to do with the products being the best of the best.

[dlnljl]

I agree with TourIQ. Every one of the products listed has huge advertisment space in the golf digest magazine. I think you have to look at this list with some scepticism when they don't even consider any of the component companies which have some products just as great if not better than the OEM's. Last year they threw in a Tom Wishon fairway wood, and that was just due to the hype in the industry, otherwise they would have ignored it then.

[Pingnut]

Interesting that the FT-5 tops the list. That's the one that interests me the most. :cool:

[denchoe]

I know it's a stupid question but what is OEM stand for?

[Pingnut]

OEM = original equipment manufacturer

I'm not so sure this term makes a lot of sense with the Golf industry.
People refer to the Big players or retail brands in golf as OEM's.

[denchoe]

OEM = original equipment manufacturer

I'm not so sure this term makes a lot of sense with the Golf industry.
People refer to the Big players or retail brands in golf as OEM's.

thanks pingnut...i always see it but never know what it stands for...

[Nocean]

While I agree that it's a fairly arbitrary method of evaluation (read: ad $$$), I do believe that all the clubs tested will perform similarly with only marginal differences between them; All clubs were within a small number of points of each other.

The 'performance' and 'technology' categories were totally inconsistent - how do the Rapture clubs get such varied tech ratings?!? They all use the same multi-material design. Also, they'll praise Callaway for offering 12 shaft and loft options combined, then not mention the customizability of Ping irons at ALL. Really, they seemed to miss the point on most of those reviews.

Still, the gold and silver status ratings are probably more a function of ad revenue provided by the OEM than anything.

[Just hit it]

Here's Golf digest's equipment editors statement regarding advertising and the hot list.

http://blogs.golfdigest.com/equipment/

[Nocean]

/\/\/\/\ - I like how he gets all huffy about integrity, then neglects to mention why the only clubs reviewed are those that advertise in their rag. The issue itself starts off stating how if you haven't bought new equipment in 5 years, your clubs are obsolete. That is laughable to even use the word 'obsolete' in relation to sports equipment. I played with a +2 handicap in Orlando the other day, and his 'obsolete' irons, wedges, putter, and FWs weren't hurting him at all. I would agree that balls and drivers have changed dramatically, but that's IT. They're in the business of selling you clubs by extention, period. Pertending that branding has no influence on thier decisions is contemptable.

[Ankorgolf]

and the winner is...........CALLAWAY!!!! :eek: (bet no-one saw that one coming!);)

[dlnljl]

WOW he gets all upset about his integrity being questioned. Then he should answer this question.
Why are all of the clubs being tested, are from the companies that advertise in his magazine, and he totally ignores even the very well known component companies products? Which don’t have advertising in his magazine!
In the long run though I guess the old saying “ Don’t bite the hand that feeds you” is an easy way to explain how their hot list is compiled.

[kevy_boy]

They reviewed more clubs than what you see in the Hotlist. The ones listed are their favourites. Here is the link to the list of nominees:

http://golfdigest.com/equipment/index.ssf?/equipment/gd2007hotlistnominees.html

Lots of companies represented, OEM and component alike.

[Pingnut]

WOW he gets all upset about his integrity being questioned. Then he should answer this question.
Why are all of the clubs being tested, are from the companies that advertise in his magazine, and he totally ignores even the very well known component companies products? Which don’t have advertising in his magazine!
In the long run though I guess the old saying “ Don’t bite the hand that feeds you” is an easy way to explain how their hot list is compiled.

What do you want them to do? Buy components to build themselves for testing? :cookoo:

[xander.uk]

Have to agree with alot of the comments...........next to useless!

Every 1 wins a prize.lol like being on a fairground!

I like data and numbers myself ( i appreciate that you can also make numbers say anything too but at least its Something to work with)

Would be better (in my opinion) if they had a 1,2,3 or even listed the top 10 in order of preference but it seems they dont want to lose any advertising contracts so i am sure that ALL the manufacturers of those club have received either a gold/silver or editors choice certificate to put on show in an office somewhere.lol

[kevy_boy]

What do you want them to do? Buy components to build themselves for testing? :cookoo:

As stated in my earlier post, they did test component clubs.

[Nocean]

As stated in my earlier post, they did test component clubs.
They may have "tested" them, but I highly doubt they're any worse than most OEM clubs with the right shaft. They merely made a list of all the 07 clubs and claimed to test them all - which I which I find incredulous. I'll bet they just gathered up all the 07 OEM stuff, handed it to the panel, and wrote up a very brief assessment. If you really think they tested all the stuff they listed, you're giving GD FAR too much credit. Perhaps they setup the point criteria to remove component companies (e.g. 'buzz' and 'appearance'). It's funny to me that component companies pioneered many of the technological advancements they're praising (e.g. multi-material, massive head, movable weights, better shafts, custom fitting.. on and on).

In short, the list is a joke and no one should look to GD for anything more than light reading/entertainment.

[HULC1105]

Just MHO...

Many of US said the list did not reflect the BEST equipments out there, and the list should be called "the HOT List for the 10-20+ handicappers...

With all due respect, I really don't think GD wanted to rank the BEST equipments out there, that's not the reason the list got set up to be in the first place... I don't work for GD or anything, but if you can find the time and watch the videos they made prior, there's this lady talking about why the list exists.

GD wants this list to be a guidline for those who want to buy equipments from major retail stores, for those people who don't care and don't know anything about golf (10-20+ handicappers, generally, right?), who just want to get the best value money can get, to show off their friends (Buzz factor here). And I don't find anything wrong with that.

I have to admit, I don't find the list helpful for me finding my next fairway woods, but GOD~, do I wish my dad will pick up an issue and read it before my birthday coming up!

You see, for many of us, the sport of Golf has become a tool to social with friends, we don't really go out to the course to compete. We just want a flashy, top-notch stick we can tell our friends about. We want a list that tells us what is what, and GD's Hot list gives us that.

The list is NOT about finding the best clubs, it's NOT about for those 15% to 20% of golfers who dream about golf clubs.

For example, WE, I mean people like you, can definitely tell why PING RedWood and Scotty's putters are much much better than the Ping G5i series. The feel, the look, the tradition in them. But to people who don't know Scotty Cameron, like my dad, why the hell will he want a putter that can't let him show off to his friends, for 400 bucks?

So, do what I do, buy the issue, and put it on the dinner table, under your wife's magazines, and cross your fingers that once she finished reading those, she will see the post-it notes you put in the GD you "accidently" placed under her Vogue.

Happy Golfing!

[kevy_boy]

They may have "tested" them, but I highly doubt they're any worse than most OEM clubs with the right shaft. They merely made a list of all the 07 clubs and claimed to test them all - which I which I find incredulous. I'll bet they just gathered up all the 07 OEM stuff, handed it to the panel, and wrote up a very brief assessment. If you really think they tested all the stuff they listed, you're giving GD FAR too much credit. Perhaps they setup the point criteria to remove component companies (e.g. 'buzz' and 'appearance'). It's funny to me that component companies pioneered many of the technological advancements they're praising (e.g. multi-material, massive head, movable weights, better shafts, custom fitting.. on and on).

In short, the list is a joke and no one should look to GD for anything more than light reading/entertainment.

The component companies themselves sent the equipment to Golf Digest. There's actually a thread on Wishon Golf's forum where Tom Wishon himself talks about the Hot List.

[The Troll]

The Hotlist isn't really a credible list of anything.

I don't attach any importance to seeing that stamped on anyone's ads.

[hogannut]

I haven't actually looked at the link so maybe I'm making an uneducated statement here...but that's never stopped me before. If I'm not mistaken the limits of what a driver can do have already been met by the OEM's. COR of .083 or .83 whatever it is has been around for a couple of years anyway so anything that is called "new" is just another way for the OEM's to sell their product.

[laxgolf]

I haven't actually looked at the link so maybe I'm making an uneducated statement here...but that's never stopped me before. If I'm not mistaken the limits of what a driver can do have already been met by the OEM's. COR of .083 or .83 whatever it is has been around for a couple of years anyway so anything that is called "new" is just another way for the OEM's to sell their product.

Come on hogannut. You should know better than that!!! ;) All you REALLY need to do to sell clubs is either change the colour, add weights or change the weight locations.

Taylor Made has an R7 Burner coming out soon. Taylor Made coming out with a new driver? Say it ain't so!!! How much better can it be than their most recent incarnation?

[leftintherough]

In short, the list is a joke and no one should look to GD for anything more than light reading/entertainment.

Good point! I like to read them when I'm flying on business travel. That's about it.

Many of US said the list did not reflect the BEST equipments out there, and the list should be called "the HOT List for the 10-20+ handicappers...

GD wants this list to be a guidline for those who want to buy equipments from major retail stores, for those people who don't care and don't know anything about golf (10-20+ handicappers, generally, right?), who just want to get the best value money can get, to show off their friends (Buzz factor here). And I don't find anything wrong with that.

Happy Golfing!

Interesting point. When I was re-entering the game a few years back I carefully studied the HOT list and then promptly went out and bought components from Ian Hale.

[Louie]

Regardless what I have read. I still want to play OEM clubs not knockoffs and judging by what I have read what is in your bags you do as well.

My biggest beef is that always Callaway and Taylor Made drivers usually win the best of the best,meanwhile 2006 Titleist had the most wins on tour. Correct me if I'm wrong you don't see Titleist do the kinds of ads that Callaway and Taylor Made have. Just a thought :confused:

[iamit]

What I don't undersand is the Bobby Jones line is getting so much credit in their list. I don't recall seeing much advertising last year for this new company and I wonder how much was prepurchased for 2007, however if Jesse Ortiz has bought little advertising for 2007, how do the critics explain this unknown and unproven company for getting such high praise on the list?

I actually beleive that the Hot List input is fairly legitimate, I actually only look at the personal preference and performance ratings (buzz, technology and value are useless). My work with magazine advertising has always seen only a dotted line between advertising and editorial as editors strive for integrity however large advetisers do reap benefits. I would use as a reference but combine this information with Rankmark, Golf's Club Test, etc to establish a trend on what products really seems to be getting consistent feedback.

In GD Hot List, I think that the raters/surveyors represent a fairly average golfer demographic and go into this naturally with an established brand affinitiy and so unless the product has highly noticeable benefits, most people will stick with what they are comfortable with. Which more or less explain the Callaway/Ping/Taylormade popularity.

[leftintherough]

Regardless what I have read. I still want to play OEM clubs not knockoffs and judging by what I have read what is in your bags you do as well.


Louie. Components are NOT knockoffs. Knockoffs are the crap that look like OEM with a similar sounding or meaning name. Clones which should be mentioned can be somewhere in middle but from what I've seen is usually on the lower end. Although I played a set of TM burner wood clones when I was a starving student and liked them very much. They were built by a quality club fitter.

Components are some high quality stuff. To explain my current bag, the Hogans are in the bag for the winter to save wear and tear on my snake eyes.

[Ankorgolf]

I still want to play OEM clubs not knockoffs

THAT's why we need more components on the Hot List, to show people that they are NOT knockoffs, but are just as good in terms of quality and performance as OEMs.

[kevy_boy]

My biggest beef is that always Callaway and Taylor Made drivers usually win the best of the best,meanwhile 2006 Titleist had the most wins on tour. Correct me if I'm wrong you don't see Titleist do the kinds of ads that Callaway and Taylor Made have. Just a thought :confused:

The Hot List is geared towards the average golfer not the tour player. What works on tour doesn't necessarily work for average golfers.

[leftintherough]

THAT's why we need more components on the Hot List, to show people that they are NOT knockoffs, but are just as good in terms of quality and performance as OEMs.

And typically better than OEM stuff.

[westbeach]

Here's a thought, maybe they just did testing on the best sellers.

[leftintherough]

Here's a thought, maybe they just did testing on the best sellers.

That is interesting. Good thought. But wouldn't that be unethical considering all of the clubs they list for testing ?

[iamit]

Here's a thought, maybe they just did testing on the best sellers.

No, alot (but not all) of the product tested is not yet available at retail or has just recently come out.

[precision]

My two cents (which won't buy anything on that list): Is it just me or do most golfers who build their own clubs or have them made for them from the various component suppliers out there, assume their equipment is not only going to be as good as the OEM stuff, but better? Is there a certain alternative snob appeal, "I'm a totally informed non-conformist," to dissing the OEM's and those who use their products? Golf Digest DOES does test the non-OEM equipment and, for what it may or may not be worth, apparently they are NOT all that impressed.

[golfinseb]

My two cents (which won't buy anything on that list): Is it just me or do most golfers who build their own clubs or have them made for them from the various component suppliers out there, assume their equipment is not only going to be as good as the OEM stuff, but better? Is there a certain alternative snob appeal, "I'm a totally informed non-conformist," to dissing the OEM's and those who use their products? Golf Digest DOES does test the non-OEM equipment and, for what it may or may not be worth, apparently they are NOT all that impressed.

Where exactly do you come up with this information????????

[TourIQ]

It's here! It's here! Let the debates begin, but I do love being able to hear the contact of the ball on the driver :)
http://golfdigest.com/hotlist/

Hi ALL

I wonder how many 1 year old 'discontinued' models are BETTER then the
new model offered, but did not make the list at all, since it is not current?

For example, the Titanium 454 could be better than the new Callaway offering,
it replaced but it is nowhere to be found on the listing.

3Wood - Nike T60
Hi Mike

Man I can't believe this, what happened 'dude'? Not a full bag of 14 Titleist clubs?
How did the 'Nike' sneak into your bag? Next you might want to play components :rofl:

[Johnson]

All the money I spent at GT this year on Brand name equipment and none of it made the hotlist!?!

I always liked the Mizuno MP 60's and to see it again on the hotlist pains me as it was always out of my budget. Even the set at the GT demo sale were out of my budget for a used set of clubs.

My question are these clubs sometimes hyped up to sell? Does anyone have any cons about the "flawless" MP 60s?


I still believe it is not the club it is the person who swings it.

[Pingnut]

Hi ALL

I wonder how many 1 year old 'discontinued' models are BETTER then the
new model offered, but did not make the list at all, since it is not current?

For example, the Titanium 454 could be better than the new Callaway offering,
it replaced but it is nowhere to be found on the listing.


Hi Mike

Man I can't believe this, what happened 'dude'? Not a full bag of 14 Titleist clubs?
How did the 'Nike' sneak into your bag? Next you might want to play components :rofl:

Tout IQ - do you have a launch monitor?
I wonder how the 454 stcks up against the FT3 and other heads for ball speed.

[iamit]

Where exactly do you come up with this information????????

I think that this was a fair observation that component proponents are a vocal minority that have a short man syndrome and also that Golf Digest does include all major component manufacturers in its initial testing before shortlisting finallists and historicaly components have not faired well:

http://www.golfdigest.com/equipment/index.ssf?/equipment/gd200602hotlistalldrivers.html

However regarding the latter, to also be fair this maybe more a problem with testing methodology than the quality of the components.

[Louie]

Louie. Components are NOT knockoffs. Knockoffs are the crap that look like OEM with a similar sounding or meaning name. Clones which should be mentioned can be somewhere in middle but from what I've seen is usually on the lower end.



Sorry I guess I should've worded that differently. You're right there is alot of
quality component stuff out there. It was the clones I was trying to beat up not the components.



Hey Harry, The Nike just suited my eye,the face looks open to me,don't worry though I will be getting a 906F2.:) Talk to ya soon

[Ankorgolf]

Sorry I guess I should've worded that differently. You're right there is alot of
quality component stuff out there. It was the clones I was trying to beat up not the components.

Oh, so you're talking about CLONES! well go right ahead, my friend!:D clones drive me nuts. sorry about the misunderstanding;)

My two cents (which won't buy anything on that list): Is it just me or do most golfers who build their own clubs or have them made for them from the various component suppliers out there, assume their equipment is not only going to be as good as the OEM stuff, but better? Is there a certain alternative snob appeal, "I'm a totally informed non-conformist," to dissing the OEM's and those who use their products? Golf Digest DOES does test the non-OEM equipment and, for what it may or may not be worth, apparently they are NOT all that impressed.

Maybe Golf Digest is misinformed!:cool:

[zone555]

I think that this was a fair observation that component proponents are a vocal minority that have a short man syndrome and also that Golf Digest does include all major component manufacturers in its initial testing before shortlisting finallists and historicaly components have not faired well:

http://www.golfdigest.com/equipment/index.ssf?/equipment/gd200602hotlistalldrivers.html

However regarding the latter, to also be fair this maybe more a problem with testing methodology than the quality of the components.

It's the same argument about PC's vs Mac's. Sure, both get the job done. And I'm not about to argue which is better, because there are surely pros and cons to both. Same goes for OEM vs Components.

As with any minority product, their supporters have to voice their opinion twice as hard as a mainstream product.

IBTL

[goshawk]

I find it difficult to understand (other than advertizing budgets from OEM'S) that a component company like Wishon didn't make any part of the "hot list". Is Golf Digest suggesting that Wishon doesn't make quality equipment?

[Pingnut]

I find it difficult to understand (other than advertizing budgets from OEM'S) that a component company like Wishon didn't make any part of the "hot list". Is Golf Digest suggesting that Wishon doesn't make quality equipment?

No - just not "Hot List" equipment. People that are getting into the game and looking to upgrade their sticks don't normally say things like "I'm going to get that new Wishon driver". Just doesn't Happen. If you can't buy it in a store, not sure why it would be on this list.

[Ankorgolf]

people that are getting into the game and looking to upgrade their sticks don't normally say things like "I'm going to get that new Wishon driver". Just doesn't Happen

sadly true :(

[goshawk]

No - just not "Hot List" equipment. People that are getting into the game and looking to upgrade their sticks don't normally say things like "I'm going to get that new Wishon driver". Just doesn't Happen. If you can't buy it in a store, not sure why it would be on this list.

I can't find the lists for past years, but I understood that there were Wishon heads listed on past hot lists. Maybe I just misunderstood what the guy was telling me.

[ondadl]

It's the same argument about PC's vs Mac's. Sure, both get the job done. And I'm not about to argue which is better, because there are surely pros and cons to both. Same goes for OEM vs Components.

As with any minority product, their supporters have to voice their opinion twice as hard as a mainstream product.

IBTL

OEMs are to PCs what components are to MACS. I like!