Quality used Macs

[slicendice]

looking to maybe jump into the world of the macbook.

does anyone know a source (either online or physical store, private or company) for reliable used or refurbed mac books?

We'd like to pick up a little laptop with wireless connectivity to use around the house.

i know i can get a PC laptop for well under a grand, but apple seems to be the wave of the future especially for the home.

[TehFlakes]

the MaCstore in toronto had some open boxes a few weeks back when we bought ours.


looking to maybe jump into the world of the macbook.

does anyone know a source (either online or physical store, private or company) for reliable used or refurbed mac books?

We'd like to pick up a little laptop with wireless connectivity to use around the house.

i know i can get a PC laptop for well under a grand, but apple seems to be the wave of the future especially for the home.

[wayland]

Goto http://www.apple.ca (http://www.apple.ca/) and click on the Store. Down the left hand side, they have a link to their Refurbished Section.

[racmbs]

looking to maybe jump into the world of the macbook.

does anyone know a source (either online or physical store, private or company) for reliable used or refurbed mac books?

We'd like to pick up a little laptop with wireless connectivity to use around the house.

i know i can get a PC laptop for well under a grand, but apple seems to be the wave of the future especially for the home.

Before you run out and by a Mac, assess your needs first.

Ask yourself why you want a Mac and if it will run the type's of applications you are currently running on your PC.

[milhaus]

Before you run out and by a Mac, assess your needs first.

Ask yourself why you want a Mac and if it will run the type's of applications you are currently running on your PC.
Why? You can run both OS X and Winblows on it. But you won't. . .

Aside from the Refurbished part of the online store, the Apple stores in the GTA - Eaton Centre, Sherway, and Yorkdale - have month ending sales where their "refreshed" computers are often a couple hundred off. They all come with the standard one year warranty. The prices are often better than education.

[racmbs]

Why? You can run both OS X and Winblows on it. But you won't. . .

Aside from the Refurbished part of the online store, the Apple stores in the GTA - Eaton Centre, Sherway, and Yorkdale - have month ending sales where their "refreshed" computers are often a couple hundred off. They all come with the standard one year warranty. The prices are often better than education.

No offense bro....but you don't need to let me know what can/can't run on a Mac.....I'm "qualified" to know, let's jut leave it at that. ;)

My suggestion to him was, make sure you understand why you need either platform before making your decision, rather than just running out and buying for the sake of doing so.

Thanks

[akrus]

Why? You can run both OS X and Winblows on it. But you won't. . .

Aside from the Refurbished part of the online store, the Apple stores in the GTA - Eaton Centre, Sherway, and Yorkdale - have month ending sales where their "refreshed" computers are often a couple hundred off. They all come with the standard one year warranty. The prices are often better than education.

As a MacBook user and a network admin in a PC shop, I'll give you one quick reason:

- intel macbooks = no pcmcia slot, no modem. sure you can buy your way around that but it could be a problem for some

Rac's advice is very good. evaluate why you need it - DON'T be taken in by the marketting and design without considering your real needs.

[wayland]

If you need that PCMCIA slot, buy my 15" Powerbook G4 1.25Ghz. PM me if interested.

[racmbs]

If you need that PCMCIA slot, buy my 15" Powerbook G4 1.25Ghz. PM me if interested.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Was only a matter of time before you tried selling your PB. :D

Seriously though, Wayland's PB is cherry......minty fresh actually.

Dude polishes it every morning and night

[slicendice]

Before you run out and by a Mac, assess your needs first.

Ask yourself why you want a Mac and if it will run the type's of applications you are currently running on your PC.

a very good point. Really, the wife wants it to be able to retouch her digital pics, surf the web whilst watching the tube, use it a portable DVD player on the road and I'd use it for web stuff, general word processing (i dable in writing), syncing with our ipods, ripping and downloading legal and not so legal music etc. This wouldn't be used as a work or even a work compatible machine.

The workhorse of the family would still be my PC (with the full gamut of MS software), but it's an oldie at p4 1.5 with 2 Gigs of ram. and still needs to upgrading to XP (yeah yeah, I know).

are we being taken in by the hype and neato marketing? damn right we are, but I think that's a credit to the fruit's marketing campaign - I'm not easily taken in and I NEVER make a spur of the moment large scale purchase (to us, a grand IS a large scale purchase) without some research (that's you guys to start with)

in terms of software? I'd like to be able to run MS office if possible, and we'd need some sort of Adobe Photoshop type program for pictures - that's about it.

I'm troubled by this no modem thing. can you expand? Wayland - a PM is forthcoming ;)

[thekathrynorchard]

carbon computers has some used macs as does ehmac.ca.

I bought my ibook from ehmac and everything has gone good so far. My only advice is to JUMP on stuff on that board because stuff sells FAST.

[milhaus]

No offense bro....but you don't need to let me know what can/can't run on a Mac.....I'm "qualified" to know, let's jut leave it at that. ;)

My suggestion to him was, make sure you understand why you need either platform before making your decision, rather than just running out and buying for the sake of doing so.

ThanksNone taken, but if somebody asks, "Where can I get good Chinese Food," would you answer, "Are you sure you want Chinese Food? Italian might work better for you"? I simply answered his question and your comment. Plus, he already stated his needs above, a "little laptop with wireless connectivity to use around the house." Hmmm . . . gonna need that modem and PCMCIA slot for sure . . .

[akrus]

None taken, but if somebody asks, "Where can I get good Chinese Food," would you answer, "Are you sure you want Chinese Food? Italian might work better for you"? I simply answered his question and your comment. Plus, he already stated his needs above, a "little laptop with wireless connectivity to use around the house." Hmmm . . . gonna need that modem and PCMCIA slot for sure . . .

Not really the same as slicendice asking:

"looking to maybe jump into the world of the macbook"

It's clear that he is unsure of whether he wants to make the jump or not.

Slicendice, the no modem thing is just that, the intel MacBooks don't come with a modem so you have to buy a usb modem if you want dialup.

Keep in mind that, in general, proficient PC users find Mac OSx a tad frustrating until they get through the learning curve.

Also, I think you're really missing the benefits of XP - it's a far greater OS than whatever you're currently running and Vista is even better. I just bought a Dell Latitude 620 (for a coworker) that is priced about the same as my MacBook Black and is very similar in size, etc. As for features and battery life, the Dell blows the Macbook out of the water. I can't get 3 hours of battery life whereas the Dell is over 5.

I've also got a pre-Intel MacMini and I can tell you that I wouldn't even consider a Mac that isn't Intel - the speed gains are real and very noticeable. Now, if you're getting a great deal, that obviously needs to be taken into account.

[golfinseb]

I've also got a pre-Intel MacMini and I can tell you that I wouldn't even consider a Mac that isn't Intel - the speed gains are real and very noticeable.

I'm no expert on the subject, but it wasn't that long ago that every mac user under the sun was proclaiming how great thier non intel machines were. I guess it's partly due to the OS.

For us laymen what is the true advantage to using a Mac over a PC?

[akrus]

[center]

I'm no expert on the subject, but it wasn't that long ago that every mac user under the sun was proclaiming how great thier non intel machines were. I guess it's partly due to the OS.

For us laymen what is the true advantage to using a Mac over a PC?

Nowadays, I don't really think there is any sort of advantage for the average person to use Mac. There was a time when video and graphic intensive work was really only worth doing on Macs, but that is pretty much gone by the wayside, IMO.

PCs had surpassed Apple's processing-power long ago and software manufacturers have sided greatly with Windows so that now Mac only stuff is made for XP as well.

The reason I bought my first Mac was due to the fact that I have all sorts of access to PCs at the office and never have to worry about using the latest/greatest there. The iMac with it's sleek lcd on a shiny arm with the white Hershey kiss base, was nice for it's reduction of cable clutter, it's introduction to OSx and the overall space saving design.

My second OSx based Apple was the Mac mini and it appealed to me for it's space saving size and the fact that it does everything I need to do from home (iPhoto, web-browsing, email, remote desktop client, iTunes) it's perfect for my use there.

The reason I bought the MacBook was to evaluate it's potential in our office and to benefit from OSx's BSD core (we've got a UNIX box at the office and I need the ability to copy files in UFS). I have since decided that, while I can work with it fine, our average user at the office would not benefit and may actually become less productive.

In my mind, OSx is easier for a new computer user to get going on as it really is made with a 5 year old in mind - on the surface... A beginner should adapt quickly. A proficient Win2000 or XP user may get frustrated at times. Lord knows the difficulty I had getting any info out of Mac support when I had questions (albeit, the questions I had were regarding file system stuff, so it probably wasn't a question they got often) - I felt as though I was teaching them... With Microsoft support, it would have been a 2 minute conversation - more likely the need to call wouldn't have been there as 2000/XP/2003 support is easy to find online.

So, if you're happy with what your Windows machine does, don't sweat it. Wait for Vista and decide whether you should upgrade to that. Leave OSx to people that have a particular need for it - there's nothing in it that you can't live without. If you want to change, just for change-sake, then consider any of the Linux flavours. You could upgrade to a nice, new Vista capable machine and put your old one to use as a Linux box.

[slicendice]

but they're so pretty

[slicendice]

after doing some looking around, I see I can get a spanking new Dell with all the bells and whistles for well under what I would pay for a used Mac. Looks like price and function win over cuteness. Plus my lazy butt doesn't need to learn a new OS. Just Vista when they get around to releasing a Service Pack or two.

Thanks for your advice all.

[fresh]

so i shouldnt get a mac?!?!?!?!?!

oh wait..i need garageband........

[ondadl]

after doing some looking around, I see I can get a spanking new Dell with all the bells and whistles for well under what I would pay for a used Mac. Looks like price and function win over cuteness. Plus my lazy butt doesn't need to learn a new OS. Just Vista when they get around to releasing a Service Pack or two.

Thanks for your advice all.


Dell should change their slogan to...

"Dude, you need complete care!"

I bought a laptop from dell almost four years ago, and paid $750 just for a 4 year next business day complete care package. THIS IS A MUST WITH DELL LAPTOPS. I have replaced my screen twice, my hardrive once, my graphics card twice, my wireless card twice, my charger twice, and my keyboard once. As bad as their phone customer service is, the guys they send to my house are amazing. The best part is that I haven't paid a cent more since I bought the machine. It's covered by everything except fires. Just thought I'd give you fair warning.

[nobdyhere]

After hearing how many times you had to send it back for repair just reinforces my belief not to buy dell laptops!!!

J

Dell you change their slogan.

"Dude, you need complete care!"

I bought a laptop from dell almost four years ago, and paid $750 just for a 4 year next business day complete care package. THIS IS A MUST WITH DELL LAPTOPS. I have replaced my screen twice, my hardrive once, my graphics card twice, my wireless card twice, my charger twice, and my keyboard once. As bad as their phone customer service is, the guys they send to my house are amazing. The best part is that I haven't paid a cent more since I bought the machine. It's covered by everything except fires. Just thought I'd give you fair warning.

[akrus]

It's amazing that people slam Dell (as well as other brands), I've been using Dell for business for the past 9-10 years and when I took on my current job (almost 4 years ago), I decided to try Toshiba for notebooks. I've never had so many nightmares as I've had with Toshiba. Dell has, by far produced far better notebooks than any of the Tecras I've purchased. I've had issues with IBM as well. No company is perfect, but I reassure you that I've learned and will be sticking with Dell.

Even my Macbook has had problems, for which I've sent it in and gotten repairs. Apple has a history of hiding problems so as not to hurt their image. Took them forever to even acknowledge the "random shutdown" issuse most Macbook/Pro owners were putting up with.

My point with all this is that no manufacturer is perfect, mostly you hope not to have any problems at all and if you do, then you hope a resolution is quick to come.

[davevandyk]

Dell you change their slogan.

"Dude, you need complete care!"

I bought a laptop from dell almost four years ago, and paid $750 just for a 4 year next business day complete care package. THIS IS A MUST WITH DELL LAPTOPS. I have replaced my screen twice, my hardrive once, my graphics card twice, my wireless card twice, my charger twice, and my keyboard once. As bad as their phone customer service is, the guys they send to my house are amazing. The best part is that I haven't paid a cent more since I bought the machine. It's covered by everything except fires. Just thought I'd give you fair warning.

I am also a Dell laptop user. I have only used Dell but i am def going to be switching to a Sony for my next purchase. At the moment i have a computer with a screen that is on its way out, my cd/dvd drive hasn't been working since i got it, the battery is completely dead as well as the plastic is bubbling because the computer gets crazy hot. I have been on the phone/email with the customer service people and they have been super helpful, but costumer service doesnt' make up for inferior product. I also got the complete care, and that is the only thing saving me right now, i believe the comp is getting replaced.

[Bellyhungry]

With apologies to racmbs, Quality and Macs should never appear in the same sentence, used or new notwithstanding :D . The term Quality Macs is an oxymoron. :p

[wayland]

You guys should try Fujitsu Lifebook series of laptops if you must stick with the pc platform.

Bellyhungry, put the down pipe bro. Apple's hardware is the best designed in the industry. If you ever have a chance, open up a G4/G5 tower and behold the best designed cases in the industry. As to the laptops, every facet of the design (from the ports being on the side, etc) is done with a purpose in mind. Dells might have great service but the hold a Dell up to a Powerbook/Macbook and think that the Apple is of poor quality just tells me that you don't know what you're talking about.

[westbeach]

Okay, to chime in. I've had about 5 different notebooks for personal use and work in the past 4 years. Fujitsu Lifebook, Dell D600, Dell D620, Apple MacBook Pro core2
and an Acer.

By far, the best quality came from the Fujitsu. Never had one problem with it. The Dells were a little bit of a nightmare. Keyboard malfunctioning, motherboard glitches and power supply problem. Aside from the phone service, their level of service for replacement was amazing. As for the Macbook that I have now, I had to replace it 3 times. Optical drives were malfunctioning and my latest one, I've had to replace the battery once already. It would only hold 1/8th the charge. Great level of support as well. All in all, I would recommend getting an Apple but don't expect it to be a perfect machine. If their level of support wasn't so good, I would be an Apple basher right now for sure.

[Bellyhungry]

You guys should try Fujitsu Lifebook series of laptops if you must stick with the pc platform.

Bellyhungry, put the down pipe bro. Apple's hardware is the best designed in the industry. If you ever have a chance, open up a G4/G5 tower and behold the best designed cases in the industry. As to the laptops, every facet of the design (from the ports being on the side, etc) is done with a purpose in mind. Dells might have great service but the hold a Dell up to a Powerbook/Macbook and think that the Apple is of poor quality just tells me that you don't know what you're talking about.

DELL computers are garbage - they spend 5% of their expenditure on R&D while others like HP and Lenovo spend 40%.

Had you paid attention the all the smileys, you know it was done tongue and cheeks.

And yes, I do know what I am talking.

[akrus]

DELL computers are garbage - they spend 5% of their expenditure on R&D while others like HP and Lenovo spend 40%.

Had you paid attention the all the smileys, you know it was done tongue and cheeks.

And yes, I do know what I am talking.

Trying to compare Dell's and Lenovo's R&D expenditures is quite laughable. Where are you getting those numbers? You know that Dell provides more services/products than notebooks, right? How can displaying percentages as you have above mean anything at all????

To claim that Dell is any worse than any other company out there is completely ignornant. I had taken a course last fall in which the outfit presenting the course gave a Lenovo notebook for completing it. It's easily in the class of an entry level Dell and built with similar quality. I know that Lenovo builds better machines as does Dell (I will only buy from Dell's Latitude line up - what model is your problem Dell?). Of all the notebooks I've purchased for my company in the past 4 years, here are some numbers:

Dell - qty 42 - problems 1 (wifi card nfg on delivery);
Apple - qty 1 - problems 3
Toshiba - qty 14 - problems 21 (you name it, it's happened

Now, I'm sure that I get preferred support with Dell as I do have a corporate account and we do spend a fair amount with them each year, but you can easily see why I would defend Dell.

[skt07]

I am also a Dell laptop user. I have only used Dell but i am def going to be switching to a Sony for my next purchase. At the moment i have a computer with a screen that is on its way out, my cd/dvd drive hasn't been working since i got it, the battery is completely dead as well as the plastic is bubbling because the computer gets crazy hot. I have been on the phone/email with the customer service people and they have been super helpful, but costumer service doesnt' make up for inferior product. I also got the complete care, and that is the only thing saving me right now, i believe the comp is getting replaced.

Speaking of terrible laptops. Please, please DO NOT buy a Sony Vaio! Yes I know, they look so pretty and so cool and they have that Sony mystique. But from my experience with several Sony laptops they are truly terrible! Overheating problems on all of them. Bad optical drive on another. Malfunctioning harddrive on the same one.

Plus add to all of that the fact that Sony charges MORE than most other companies for similar specs. High price does not equal high quality in this case.

They may do other things very very well, but stay away from Sony laptops!

[TehFlakes]

I've heard sony doesnt repair there laptop's in canada and send them to the USA to be fixed..


Speaking of terrible laptops. Please, please DO NOT buy a Sony Vaio! Yes I know, they look so pretty and so cool and they have that Sony mystique. But from my experience with several Sony laptops they are truly terrible! Overheating problems on all of them. Bad optical drive on another. Malfunctioning harddrive on the same one.

Plus add to all of that the fact that Sony charges MORE than most other companies for similar specs. High price does not equal high quality in this case.

They may do other things very very well, but stay away from Sony laptops!

[skt07]

I've heard sony doesnt repair there laptop's in canada and send them to the USA to be fixed..

I'm not sure where it was sent to be repaired, but that's another thing. It took forever to get fixed and returned. Around 3-4 weeks! Ridiculous!

Oh, to stay on topic. Those Macs laptops look pretty sweet, especially the black one. I've considered making the switch to a Mac for home, but I think that would make it too difficult to do work-related stuff on my home computer, since my work laptop is a PC. And it's a pain to boot up the work laptop just to make one change to a document if my home computer is already on.

And that's another thing about Macs. Powerpoint files saved on a Mac do not look the same on a PC vs on the Mac. Alignments shift and text boxes are not exactly the same when the file is opened on a Mac vs a PC. Another reason Macs are not the best for the business world, since most companies use PCs. You have to .pdf all your Mac Powerpoint presentations to ensure everything looks exactly as you intended.

[simar]

having had my hands on a lot of hardware, laptops from pretty much every vendor out there, I have only ever hand one that I bought for myself personally, its an IBM 600X, by far the best laptop IBM ever made. It may not be the fastest or the biggest display or the most ram, but it was a good performer on every front. I still both the 600x's I bought for myself and haven't had even one failure in over 6 years. Looking at all the newer hardware i've had since, all i can say is, in general, everything has failed on me atleast once. Having said that, I am currently on a dell precision m60 (optical drive died) and its been better than the previous dells i had (keyboards sucked, motherboards fried). Much better than the ibms i had before it (repeated motherboard failures). Better than the toshiba i had before it (fan died, and eventually the cpu went) and the powerbook before it (it didnt make it after a 3ft drop off after the xray machine at pearson, and the optical drive went), or the hp (smartcard reader locked me out repeatedly) or the compaq (dont get me started, multiple harddrive failures) or the acer (never could get it to stay connected to any network, regardless of how many times it was serviced and they replaced the motherboard each time, yes it was before they went to the tulip's), the list is long.. all i have to say each machine has its own quirks, and sometimes i felt like matthew perry in the whole nine yards when he started his car to go to work each morning.. but eventually you have to live with what you get. my suggestion look at the knowledge base at each manufactorer and read through some of the issues they have seen with the model you are considering.

[Bellyhungry]

I work in the IT Technology industry for the last 15 years with full coverage over the US as well. I have been to a lot of their insider executive events. I draw my conclusion base on what I witnessed and what was said by these industry executives off the records.

And yes, we do have a few ex-DELL employees here that attested to my comments.

Trying to compare Dell's and Lenovo's R&D expenditures is quite laughable. Where are you getting those numbers? You know that Dell provides more services/products than notebooks, right? How can displaying percentages as you have above mean anything at all????

To claim that Dell is any worse than any other company out there is completely ignornant. I had taken a course last fall in which the outfit presenting the course gave a Lenovo notebook for completing it. It's easily in the class of an entry level Dell and built with similar quality. I know that Lenovo builds better machines as does Dell (I will only buy from Dell's Latitude line up - what model is your problem Dell?). Of all the notebooks I've purchased for my company in the past 4 years, here are some numbers:

Dell - qty 42 - problems 1 (wifi card nfg on delivery);
Apple - qty 1 - problems 3
Toshiba - qty 14 - problems 21 (you name it, it's happened

Now, I'm sure that I get preferred support with Dell as I do have a corporate account and we do spend a fair amount with them each year, but you can easily see why I would defend Dell.

[akrus]

I work in the IT Technology industry for the last 15 years with full coverage over the US as well. I have been to a lot of their insider executive events. I draw my conclusion base on what I witnessed and what was said by these industry executives off the records.

And yes, we do have a few ex-DELL employees here that attested to my comments.

Means little to me...

Not going to get into it with you as you seem pretty hell-bent against Dell, but what are your preferences for manufacturer?

"Being in IT" you surely realize that parts is parts. Hardly anyone makes their own stuff. I've seen IBM/Toshiba drives in Dells, Intel mobos in all of them, NVidia and ATI cards rule when Intel isn't spec'd for video. As for LCD manufacturers - do you believe Dell, IBM or Toshiba make their own LCDs? Actually, how many people even knew about Lenovo prior to IBM 'exiting' the buisiness???

My point is, they design the layout, but all companies share common components or at the very least, common parts manufacturers. Dell doesn't build a damn thing, they spec/assemble.

Don't take this personally, I just get a kick out of people blaming "manufacturers" for failures, when they rarely know who the manufacturer is. As you're in IT, I wouldn't group you in this category.

[Bellyhungry]

Means little to me...

Not going to get into it with you as you seem pretty hell-bent against Dell, but what are your preferences for manufacturer?

"Being in IT" you surely realize that parts is parts. Hardly anyone makes their own stuff. I've seen IBM/Toshiba drives in Dells, Intel mobos in all of them, NVidia and ATI cards rule when Intel isn't spec'd for video. As for LCD manufacturers - do you believe Dell, IBM or Toshiba make their own LCDs? Actually, how many people even knew about Lenovo prior to IBM 'exiting' the buisiness???

My point is, they design the layout, but all companies share common components or at the very least, common parts manufacturers. Dell doesn't build a damn thing, they spec/assemble.

Don't take this personally, I just get a kick out of people blaming "manufacturers" for failures, when they rarely know who the manufacturer is. As you're in IT, I wouldn't group you in this category.

Just one thing...while the parts are similar. It is how they put them together and the testing they go through.

Lenovo is smart enough to let the IBM people continue with the Think series. However, last year, they attempt to introduce the low end Lenovo line - from China, but the result was flat at best.

As for quality of PCs while they share similar components, there are two main differences: A quality mfgr would have tigther tolerence and more rigorous QA testing; They also have in-house R&D to make sure their 'commonly-available' components work better together.