Long Drive advice

[Johnson]

I did not catch the full segment but when they had the Remax long drive on TV they talked about controlling the spin rate. I think they said you want less spin to make it go further.

Can someone explain this? How do you control or alter spin rates with a driver or long irons?

[Albatross]

From what i gather, the less spin on the ball off the driver, the less lift the ball will have and upon contact with the ground the further it will roll. Therefor with less spin you will get a more boring trajectory and less height. Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

[goshawk]

I haven't done a lot of research on this subject, but from the information I did find, the optimum spin rate is relative to the launch angle. If your launch angle is 14 degrees, your spin rate should be between 2500 and 3000 rpm. Higher launch angles should have a lower spin rate, and lower angles a lower rate. With a high launch angle, if the spin rate is high as well the ball will tend to balloon in flight. Conversely, with a low angle if the spin rate is low the ball will tend to fly flat and act more like a knuckle ball until it hits the ground.

[michaeljreid]

Goshawk is in the ball park. Ball distance (CARRY AND ROLL) is a function of ball speed, launch angle, ball spin rate, and landing angle. As a biomechanist I have spent a fair bit of time looking at this issue. Moreover, I have spent a lot of time trying to maximize them for my own swing (who isn't right:) ).

Without getting bogged down by specific numbers, because as amatuers we are not consistant enough to key off these every swing anyway I will do my best to offer some thoughts, however inaccurate or accurate they may be. Just something to ponder.

All of these factors are dependant on ball launch speed (incidently a function of club head speed and face contact). Depending on the ball launch speed you will want to key on different factors listed above.

If you have a slow ball launch speed you want to have a higher launch angle and high spin rate to keep the ball as high as possible. You want to maximize carry distance, as this will be your key.

Oppositely if you have a higher ball launch speed you can have a much lower launch angle and lower spin rate (than someone with a lower swing speed) and but still have a longer carry distance (than the someone with a lower swing speed) but due to the lower spin rate, you also have a better landing angle (i.e. the same as saying a boring trajectory) and thus get way better roll off the drive. Essentially maximizing both roll and carry.

Someone in the middle really has the toughest time, as they have to figure out which combination of things gives them the best results. Is it higher launch angle with less spin or lower launch with more spin.

These things can all be adjusted with technology. A launch angle can be adjusted by the shaft (kick point) and/or face loft. Spin rate can be adjusted by face angle, shaft, and ball type. Ball speed is a function of swing speed (effected by shaft flex) and face contact (a function of shaft torque, flex and kickpoint) and of course how sync you swing the club (speed and accuracy wise).

So in a nut shell that is my opinion of what it all means. The biggest thing I have noticed, is that there is a range of my swing speed (spectrum: i.e. 70-80%) that maximizes all these functions for me. I have found that at that speed I still make the best contact. Then I worked to get the best properties of equipment to maximize ball speed (launch, spin, and essentially landing angle). At the end of last year, I went from an 8.5* Nike 410 with an extra stiff 43.5 inch shaft to a 9.5* r7 460 with a stiff 44.5 inch shaft. Made a world of difference for me. Better consistancy, and about 15 yards longer once I adjusted.

[dekker]

Nice post Mike!
Your interpretation and analysis of how launch angle,ball speed/spin
and clubhead speed combine to be the most effective for you is very valid.
As you say,the problem is for players that lie in the middle. To find the right combination of loft,shaft flex/tip/length options,and to match that to the right ball is time consuming.
Without the aid of a dedicated fitter who has the experience to interpret the LM data along with hard visual range observation it's very frustrating.

[michaeljreid]

Nice post Mike!
...
Without the aid of a dedicated fitter who has the experience to interpret the LM data along with hard visual range observation it's very frustrating.

Thanks,

Absolutely it is tough to work through. For me, I am in the upper end of swing speed so I was looking for different characteristics to help me maximize carry and distance. Now I spent a lot of time, using high speed cameras I borrowed from a friend's lab. Now it was slower for me, as I had to write a VB program to quickly digitize ball speed and rotation (not accurate due to camera limitations--but definately directional, i.e. it went up and or down) launch angle. Then I combined that with what I saw on the range over a long term period. Obviously not everyone has that option.

But with the newest LM equipment, the data is instant and the data is the resulting shot. What your missing is face data, which is important (i.e. where on the club face are you hitting etc) as it is essentially the why. But I have always thought of starting a business on this (10 years ago when I started golf--but didn't know a lot about it), but there are so many out there now I don't know if I would do it. Plus I wouldn't give up the security I have now for consulting (which I've done--now with 2 little ones).

Moral is, if you are truely looking to work it out, there are the tools now to do it just got to make sure the person using it, isn't just a salesman of the product and is actually someone who understands golf, and better yet understands biomechanics (IMHO).

[InnerGolf]

Really interesting thread.

I suppose if you practice enough you could develop the distance equivalent of a draw or fade by controlling spin. Lots of spin: the ball flighs high and sits up. Less spin: low and rolls. Knowing that and being able to reproduce it could come in handy trying to stick a green from 200+ out.

I played around with this last summer with my 3-wood with varied results. I noticed that hitting down on the ball a bit really raised the trajectory (good for getting it out over a bush 50 yards out for example). In fact I first saw this getting out of a light rough. I used a wood but hit down on it hard like an iron to ensure good contact and the ball ballooned exactly as Mike described.

I'll keep working on it over the winter in the sims. Of course I could just work on getting more power out of my irons.

[johnthegolfer]

Nice post Mike!
...As you say,the problem is for players that lie in the middle. To find the right combination of loft,shaft flex/tip/length options,and to match that to the right ball is time consuming...

I hope I remember this right, but I was told by someone who purports to be expert on these matters that, for those in the middle, you should err towards higher loft and less spin. The idea being to have the club generate the loft rather than backspin (which will - for the slower ball speed - tend to cause the ball to come down vertically).
But there are always exceptions to every rule and a personal fitting is essential to get the best of your equipment and swing. I have a high ball speed but very low ball flight so I have a high-launch driver and low spin ball. I don't lose out around the greens from having a hard ball because, having grown up in the UK, I learned the bump and run game!

JTG

[michaeljreid]

I have a high ball speed but very low ball flight so I have a high-launch driver and low spin ball. I don't lose out around the greens from having a hard ball because, having grown up in the UK, I learned the bump and run game!

JTG

You hit on the other portion of this equation in my opinion that has come about in the last 7 years, that I haven't got much knowledge in at all. That is ball properties. Unfortunately there is no standards on ball for labelling purposes, so a low spin ball for example from one company is very differnet than another. I with they would put more description on them, i.e. spin rates off different driver speeds etc. I would make it easier.

I have gone to a "low" spin ball so that I can stop spinning my irons off the greens. But I don't know what is the best, only what worked better for me.

Ball are difficult to understand right now, as there is not enough descriptive literature.

Anyone else have information? A website? Anything?

[dekker]

You hit on the other portion of this equation in my opinion that has come about in the last 7 years, that I haven't got much knowledge in at all. That is ball properties. Unfortunately there is no standards on ball for labelling purposes, so a low spin ball for example from one company is very differnet than another. I with they would put more description on them, i.e. spin rates off different driver speeds etc. I would make it easier.

I have gone to a "low" spin ball so that I can stop spinning my irons off the greens. But I don't know what is the best, only what worked better for me.

Ball are difficult to understand right now, as there is not enough descriptive literature.

Anyone else have information? A website? Anything?

Mike -Google -www.golfballtest.com

[johnthegolfer]

Mike -Google -www.golfballtest.com

The USGA put out lists of conforming and non-corforming balls which gives some of the characteristics of the balls including spin rates (low, med, high) for each ball when hit with a driver and a short iron.

Example info for a Bridgestone Tour B330: white, 2 pc, solid centre, double cover, low spin (driver) med spin (short iron), 330 dimples, made in Japan by Bridgestone Golf Inc.

Thousands of balls listed!

http://www.usga.org/equipment/

Also has list of conforming drivers

JTG

[michaeljreid]

Mike -Google -www.golfballtest.com
This and the USGA site are great. I need to spend more time on the web, or learn how to use it better.

Thanks.