Hitting a draw?

[Flog]

I've been golfing for a year now and I'm starting to make much better contact with the ball--i.e. hitting down and taking a divot and getting a more boring kind of ball flight. So I wanted to try to put a new shot in my bag and heard/read that the draw is an effective shot to use at times, but I'm having trouble making it work. Am I right in thinking that the set up goes like this--
- line up feet, shoulders, etc to the right of the target (I'm right handed) and position the clubface AT the target then swing as I normally would, hitting down on the ball?
When I do this I still get a good divot and ball flight, but it doesn't draw back to the left, it just goes straight.
Am I doing something wrong?

[guitarman]

I would think that swinging down in an inside to outside path would produce a draw. As an outside to inside path can produce a fade. I could be wrong though and am interested in hearing what more experienced golfers have to say.

[golfer167]

I think that's the right setup for hitting a draw. I suggest you to make sure your swing path is inside out not outside in or over the top.

Check the divot after you hit. It should be pointing to the right of the target instead of directly to the target or to the left.

[Flog]

hmmm. I know I wasn't swinging over the top but it's quite possible I didn't swing enough from the inside(?). The divot was a little more narrow but lined up with the target nicely. I think it was narrow because my club head was angled left a little bit.

[golfer167]

hmmm. I know I wasn't swinging over the top but it's quite possible I didn't swing enough from the inside(?). The divot was a little more narrow but lined up with the target nicely. I think it was narrow because my club head was angled left a little bit.

If your divot "lines up with the target nicely" then you are swinging outside-in relative to your body.

After you set up with your shoulder line towards the right of target, you should aim at where your shoulder line is pointing to, not at where the target is. In other words you should try to hit the ball to the right of the target with a closed clubface. The ball will start out parallel to your shoulder line (to the right of target), then slowly curve back to where your clubface was pointing to.

Hitting a draw shot with this setup you will take a divot that lines up with your shoulder line (to the right of target), instead of one that lines up directly with the target.

[Flog]

golfer167, my mistake. I meant to say that my divot lined up with my swing (shoulders, feet, etc), not with the target. You are right, if my divot pointed at the target then I would be swinging over the top for sure.

[Quest]

Flog....If I may offer one more suggestion that may help you hit the draw that you are after, I would suggest the following:

With the setup that you have stated, picture the ball having 4 quadrants. Concentrate on striking the inside right quadrant of the ball. I find by concentrating on that one portion of the ball really helps produce a draw.

[Mule56]

hmmm. I know I wasn't swinging over the top but it's quite possible I didn't swing enough from the inside(?). The divot was a little more narrow but lined up with the target nicely. I think it was narrow because my club head was angled left a little bit.

IF you line up the way you described above then all you have to do is let your swing path follow your body alignment. That will give you the inside path.
Mule

[landlord]

The setup/alignment tips work perfectly well ... if your "normal swing" gives you a straight shot, that is.

But if your "normal" swing produces a slight draw and you want to hit a fade, say, you'll have to exaggerate the setup/alignment thing. I'd think that most people find it harder to curve it one way than the other.

I can hit a draw or a hook in my sleep, but for a fade I really need to bear down and be brave to aim/swing as far left as I have to. (I'm right handed.) It doesn't look right so I have to trust like crazy.

A lot of good players do it all with the hands, but it's a very timing-dependent move and I bet that most of us here would either skull it, chunk it, or double cross ourselves (aim left and stay left) with that method.

[bilinguru]

Step One
Set up your golf shot with your usual alignment and grip.

Step Two
Adjust your feet to aim to the right of your target. The angle of your feet depends on your individual swing and desired results, and can range from 5 to 45 degrees. Try 10 to 15 degrees to the right to start.


Step Three
Aim the club face directly at your target and use your normal grip.


Step Four
Swing normally.


Step Five
Resist the temptation to turn too soon and watch the ball's flight.


Test the intentional hook shot with all your clubs and note the different results with each one. Consider external factors, such as wind direction and strength, slope, how the ball sits on the ground, obstacles, hazards and margin of error, when choosing your club and execution. Try not to change your normal swing. Make the changes to your grip and alignment and trust your normal swing to do the work for you. Do not try severe hooks right away. Start with mild hooks and gradually work your way into more dramatic ones.

[Flog]

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.
I'll keep working on it and aiming for the inside rear quadrant of the ball.

[Golf_Goof]

Understand how a draw behaves: ball starts out right of target drwing back toward the target. If you setup with a closed (draw) stance, your clubface must match that alignment (aiming right of target).

Inside quadrant is good concept but realise that you want to contact the ball about 1-2 dimples to the inside with an open face to get a straight ball flight.

[Hork42]

I'm having a similar problem. I align myself to the right with clubface pointed at target at address. I swing along my footline, and voila! A straight shot to the right...

One thing I realized I was doing was I was 'correcting' the clubface at impact. (ie, I was squaring it up along my swingpath subconsciously)
Also, I have a hunch that my irons are so "flaw-correcting" that they lessen the effects of an open or closed clubface... I find it easier to draw and fade with my 3-wood and hybrid. Though I can still hit a monster hook/slice with my irons if i try, it's the controlled draw or high fade that I'm looking to implement into my game.

[Biffm1]

Another option is to shallow out your swing path a little. Try taking your club back on a slightly flatter plane than normal, this combined with the other tips regarding alingment will help move the ball right to left ( for righties ).

[Shadow]

After you set up with your shoulder line towards the right of target, you should aim at where your shoulder line is pointing to, not at where the target is. In other words you should try to hit the ball to the right of the target with a closed clubface. The ball will start out parallel to your shoulder line (to the right of target), then slowly curve back to where your clubface was pointing to. If a golfer aligns his shoulders to the target and the ball goes left of target he has hit a HOOK. If the golfer aligns the shoulders right of target and the ball goes back to the target, he has hit a HOOK. A DRAW sees the shoulders aligned at the target, the ball starts right of target and curves back to target. A DRAW and a HOOK are NOT the same.

With a pure DRAW, the club head path is from the inside, the face is slightly open at SEPARATION and the DRAW results. In a HOOK the face is square to the target at SEPARATION and the club head path is from the inside.

Regardless, getting the ball to start right of the shoulder target line is STEP #1. Depending on how much curvature is imparted on to the ball, the face position may need to be altered and that is done by changing the grip. Counterclockwise if too much curve left, clockwise if not enough.

To get the inside path a simple but effective drill is too place a quarter 15" to the right of the ball, and 3" inside the target line. When swinging down just have the club head pass over the quarter. It's simple and it works. The assumption is a square body alignment at address.

[golf101]

If a golfer aligns his shoulders to the target and the ball goes left of target he has hit a HOOK. If the golfer aligns the shoulders right of target and the ball goes back to the target, he has hit a HOOK. A DRAW sees the shoulders aligned at the target, the ball starts right of target and curves back to target. A DRAW and a HOOK are NOT the same.

With a pure DRAW, the club head path is from the inside, the face is slightly open at SEPARATION and the DRAW results. In a HOOK the face is square to the target at SEPARATION and the club head path is from the inside.

Regardless, getting the ball to start right of the shoulder target line is STEP #1. Depending on how much curvature is imparted on to the ball, the face position may need to be altered and that is done by changing the grip. Counterclockwise if too much curve left, clockwise if not enough.

To get the inside path a simple but effective drill is too place a quarter 15" to the right of the ball, and 3" inside the target line. When swinging down just have the club head pass over the quarter. It's simple and it works. The assumption is a square body alignment at address.

I have a question. What do you call Lehman's ball flight? He has a open set up but seems to start the ball right of target and it comes back? That's what it looked like the last time I saw him play in person for a few holes.

I could of sworn Jack Nickluas and other teachers/instructional books I have read say to hit a draw you, aim your shoulders/body right of target and have the club face facing the target and swing normally/along your shoulder/hips/body line. This works well for me if I don't come over it. Opposite for a fade.

Very interesting stuff!

[Carlton]

I've watched some PGA guys aim right of the target and the ball flies right to left back towards the target are they hitting a hard draw or a hook?

[Flog]

With a pure DRAW, the club head path is from the inside, the face is slightly open at SEPARATION and the DRAW results. In a HOOK the face is square to the target at SEPARATION and the club head path is from the inside.
I don't quite get this part, shadow. What do you mean by 'at separation'?


To get the inside path a simple but effective drill is too place a quarter 15" to the right of the ball, and 3" inside the target line. When swinging down just have the club head pass over the quarter. It's simple and it works. The assumption is a square body alignment at address.
That sounds like a good way to groove an inside path, I'll try that at the range tonight.

[kimo62]

Good luck . I'm trying to add that shot to my game and it seems to work ok when I'm at the range but I still can't muster up eough courage to do it on the course.

BTW are you still playing the 422's?

[Flog]

Hi Ryan, yep I'm still playing the 422's. It's a love/hate relationship sometimes, though. Started the season with my game improvement irons to try and get my swing grooved a bit then switched to the 422's. I was hitting the 422's way farther after that-- 8 iron was 160. Love those clubs....
most of the time.

[kimo62]

If you get the chance you need to try the new 658's from infiniti.

Same shape head as the 422's but softer material and different finish.
pleasantly soft face.Same great performance.

[thewitt]

Just a note on clubhead design as it relates to "working" the ball.

The clubhead design NOES NOT influence your ability to hit a draw or a fade with your long irons. What happens with the short irons is you get more backspin from a game improvement design, and that counters the sidespin needed to work the ball.

When we did our last design, it was a severe game improvement design. The first player who tested this for us was a high ranking player on the Asian Tour. In testing, he hit every shot imaginable with these irons - draw, fade, high, low, skip and spin, release after landing.

He plays blades, and I asked his opinion of these heads relative to his blades. His comment was that it was harder to hit them low - the "stinger, hop and stop" shot - but other than that they were very pleasant to hit.

When I asked him if he would play them on Tour - he just smiled and said if I would pay him what Taylor Made paid him, no problem...

-t

[Desi2007]

My usual (natural) ball flight is a draw. I am trying to hit it straight as some holes you do not want the draw. However, I believe, its due to my strong grip (left thumb is on the right side of the shaft when you grip the club for right hander). I also come from inside when striking the ball at impact. You can try 3 adjustments and see which one works for you:
1. slightly close clubs face and make normal swing.
2. move you left foot closer to ball (which kind of forces you to hit from inside out)
3. swing from inside out

[golf101]

My usual (natural) ball flight is a draw. I am trying to hit it straight as some holes you do not want the draw. However, I believe, its due to my strong grip (left thumb is on the right side of the shaft when you grip the club for right hander). I also come from inside when striking the ball at impact. You can try 3 adjustments and see which one works for you:
1. slightly close clubs face and make normal swing.
2. move you left foot closer to ball (which kind of forces you to hit from inside out)
3. swing from inside out

That sounds good. Simple. I think thats the way to do it and just the opposite for a fade. Wouldn't ya say?

[Shadow]

I have a question. What do you call Lehman's ball flight? He has a open set up but seems to start the ball right of target and it comes back? That's what it looked like the last time I saw him play in person for a few holes.

I could of sworn Jack Nickluas and other teachers/instructional books I have read say to hit a draw you, aim your shoulders/body right of target and have the club face facing the target and swing normally/along your shoulder/hips/body line. This works well for me if I don't come over it. Opposite for a fade.

Very interesting stuff! While DRAW and HOOK are terms used interchangeably, they are different in a subtle way.

I can visualize Lehamn's swing but not his setup. In Nicklaus's description, with the shoulders right and the ball ending of left of where the shoulders were aligned, he has hit a hook, albeit a small hook.

CARLETON: What you are describing is a PURE DRAW, the most beautiful of shots.

FLOG: Impact is obviously when the club face first touches the ball and separation is when the ball actually leaves the club face. While the time between these two occureneces is quite small, the ball is actually ON the club face approximately .75 inches. During this time the face is rotating so that if it is, let's say, 2* open at impact, it will NOT be 2* open at separation. It is the separation position that will determine ball curvature, not the impact position.

There are those who have said that a straight ball is impossible to hit, but is it possible to have the path at separation on the target line and is it possible to have the club face square to the target at separation, as well? I am no scientist, but I say ,"Yes." However, most golfers swing from the outside and so this perfect alignment is foreign to most.

A PURE FADE is also possible, where the ball starts left of the target line and curves back to the target line, with a square setup. Everything else is a slice, to some extent. Few TOUR golfers hit either a PURE DRAW or a PURE FADE, but rather they aim left or right and curve it back to their target.

Hogan was a "fader" from a square setup and an inside path top the ball. In reality he was a "push fader" as he would aim a little left, like Tiger does, and with his very weak grip, the ball would drift back to th left. It is probably easier to "fade" or "draw" the ball this way, but the "fade" or "draw" is not PURE.:)

[Carlton]

Thanks for clearing this up Shadow.

[Flog]

If you get the chance you need to try the new 658's from infiniti.

Same shape head as the 422's but softer material and different finish.
pleasantly soft face.Same great performance.

Those are some sweet looking irons, I'd love to give them a try sometime.

Just a note on clubhead design as it relates to "working" the ball.

The clubhead design NOES NOT influence your ability to hit a draw or a fade with your long irons. What happens with the short irons is you get more backspin from a game improvement design, and that counters the sidespin needed to work the ball.

When we did our last design, it was a severe game improvement design. The first player who tested this for us was a high ranking player on the Asian Tour. In testing, he hit every shot imaginable with these irons - draw, fade, high, low, skip and spin, release after landing.

He plays blades, and I asked his opinion of these heads relative to his blades. His comment was that it was harder to hit them low - the "stinger, hop and stop" shot - but other than that they were very pleasant to hit.

When I asked him if he would play them on Tour - he just smiled and said if I would pay him what Taylor Made paid him, no problem...

-t

Are you talking about the infinity 658?

[kimo62]

Those are some sweet looking irons, I'd love to give them a try sometime.

Email or PM me and we can hook up for nine at the fox's run sometime.If your still in the area and you can try my set.

Ryan

[quote=thewitt]Just a note on clubhead design as it relates to "working" the ball.

The clubhead design NOES NOT influence your ability to hit a draw or a fade with your long irons. What happens with the short irons is you get more backspin from a game improvement design, and that counters the sidespin needed to work the ball.

When we did our last design, it was a severe game improvement design. The first player who tested this for us was a high ranking player on the Asian Tour. In testing, he hit every shot imaginable with these irons - draw, fade, high, low, skip and spin, release after landing.

He plays blades, and I asked his opinion of these heads relative to his blades. His comment was that it was harder to hit them low - the "stinger, hop and stop" shot - but other than that they were very pleasant to hit.

When I asked him if he would play them on Tour - he just smiled and said if I would pay him what Taylor Made paid him, no problem...

-t

Nice to see you on the board Tim. Your knowledge would be greatly appreciated around here.:D

[Flog]

Email or PM me and we can hook up for nine at the fox's run sometime.If your still in the area and you can try my set.


Sounds good man. I'll email you as soon as I have a chance and we'll get out. Maybe next week or the one after?

[thekathrynorchard]

I have simply adjusted my alignment as previously stated to produce a draw. In addition to this however, I visualize my right elbow (I'm right handed) dropping into my right pants pocket as I swing. This has helped to ensure my path is inside to out, as well as forcing me to ensure my wrists are coming through the way I'd like them to It's a fairly simple thought that has worked ok for me to date.

[thewitt]

Are you talking about the infinity 658?

No, but these are a very nice design as well.

I'm not comfortable talking specifics on the design since we are not sponsors of this site and I don't want to be seen as hyping a product.

The gist of my point is really that in the longer irons, you can hit a draw or a fade just as easily with a severe game improvement design as you can a blade design.

In the short irons, this is not as true, as short iron game improvement clubs will put significantly more backspin on the ball in their attempt to help you get the ball up in the air and fly straight - so it's harder to draw and fade short irons that it is long irons, but game improvement in general does not hurt your ability to work the ball other than this.

-t