NO CADDIES ALLOWED.....CASH GRAB

[hogannut]

What is going on with the majority of courses no longer allowing caddies/walkers on the course? You call the pro shop and they give you this "insurance reasons" b/s excuse. How come the municipal city courses still allow them, and SOME of the older courses. This is nothing but a cash grab for the courses!!:mad:

On the holiday Monday I took my 9 year old to Bushwood. My wife wanted to come, but she doesn't play. So....she had to pay a green fee. Now, Bushwood did give her a reduced rate, but this is a complete joke and complete b/s when they say it is for "insurance reasons". What difference does it make if it's on the course or on the property? So if my wife got hit in the head with a golf ball on the driving range it's OK, but on the course it could result in a lawsuit? I'm no lawyer but from my end what freaking difference does it make....you are on their property regardless!!:confused:

My wife can come and walk at Don Valley (at least up until last year she could) when I take the kids there for family night, and that is a city course, so why is not applicable everywhere?

These little courses like Bushwood, and Chresthaven, and so on are losing SOOOO much potential revenue because a parent who doesn't play can't come and walk with their child. Golf is expensive enough, why do we always have to be hit in the wallet just trying to develop the future of the game?

I'm playing in a Duffer's event this weekend and can't bring a caddy. That is a total joke. I can bring one if they pay $50 for the green fee though. I know Duffer's Dream is NOT the PGA tour, but we pay a premium to play and there are family and friends that may want to see the event.....but NO.....they can't walk on the course unless they pay. THey can come and hang around the range and putting green and wait for us in the club house for free.

I even asked if I rented a cart could my caddy drive the cart while I walk, and the answer was no, not unless they pay a green fee. So it would cost an additonal $75 just for someone to come and watch the event. This is robbery IMO!!!!!!:mad:

[wayland]

I've had similar experiences at several courses. While I'm not happy about it, my guess is they are afraid of 2 people going out onto the course and then playing from 1 set of clubs. Aside from the lost revenue, imagine how slow it would be.

[Golden Bear]

On the bright side, I didn't know it was allowed at Don Valley. They wouldn't allow my wife to walk for free at Dentonia last year, so I assumed the policy applied to all city courses.

The "insurance" line is nonsense, of course. But I'm not sure it's a cash grab, necessarily ... it may be that they don't want people getting onto the course for free, and then playing while sharing their companion's clubs. That's what I've always assumed, anyway. Of course, they'll happily take your money even if your companion doesn't play.

[hogannut]

I agree with both of you, the courses are afraid the extra person will try to play. You solve the problem by implementing a policy that if a caddy/walker is caught playing you are immediately removed from the course....no questions asked....no second chance.

So.....if a PGA event went to one of these courses would their caddies have to pay? Heck even a Great Lakes pro event, most of the players have caddies.

It is such a shame these golf carts have killed such a great aspect to the game.....the caddy. It was my first job, and is a great summer job for a kid. THey are outside....which kids these days don't do enough, and they are being exposed to the game. I guess it is more important for the courses to make $ on cart rental and slow the game down than develop it.

When I first starting golfing at a course in the late 70's we were told 4 hours and 15 minutes was the MAX for playing time. NOw 5 hours is the norm. Carts slow the pace of play, they don't increase it.

It is a real shame that this is lost. I'm sure Hogan and the rest of the old guys who got their start in the game by being caddies are shaking their heads in disbelief looking down from Heaven.

On the bright side, I didn't know it was allowed at Don Valley. They wouldn't allow my wife to walk for free at Dentonia last year, so I assumed the policy applied to all city courses.

The "insurance" line is nonsense, of course. But I'm not sure it's a cash grab, necessarily ... it may be that they don't want people getting onto the course for free, and then playing while sharing their companion's clubs. That's what I've always assumed, anyway. Of course, they'll happily take your money even if your companion doesn't play.

THen tell us the truth!!! I agree with you totally 100%. So why lie to your customers, tell them the truth.

[Big Shooter]

But I'm not sure it's a cash grab, necessarily ... it may be that they don't want people getting onto the course for free, and then playing while sharing their companion's clubs.


Tell me HOW this is not "NECESSARILY" a Ca$h Grab!!? :confused: :(

Hi Hogannut, I called the Oaks of St. George and you may being a caddie on Saturday. Please call me if you ever have any problems/concerns like this so I can try to resolve them for you.

Devon Bestard
Duffer's Dream Tour


it's nice having connections on TGN!!! :) :thumbs_up :clap:

[McBogey]

I remember a few years back, prolly going on 15-20 years ago, a walker got hit somewhere in Ontario and sued for big money, so I can understand all the pro shops who do not allow them, they are only trying to save their own butts.

When I was an assistant an Don Valley, I remember someone in the shop telling me about a ball hunter ( a trespasser ) who got hit after many warnings not to come onto the course, and he actually won the lawsuit, crazy stuff.

[hogannut]

A tresspasser was there illegally so I'd love to read the minutes of the case to see how and why the judge ruled in favour of the person who broke the law. As I said then what is the difference if you got hit by a ball on the driving range as opposed to the course itself?

I think it has more to do with the fact the courses don't want to have to bother following the walker/caddy around to make sure they aren't playing for free as opposed to a law suit.

I would think there must be some sort of disclaimer for the ENTIRE property. IF there wasn't the course would be taking a huge risk for law suits.

Interesting stories, but my point is why is the liability ONLY on the course itself and not the ENTIRE property?

[davevandyk]

do you often play a round of golf with a caddie? I don't see the problem there, unless you are a spoiled pro who brings his caddie to carry his sticks in all rounds. Now the walker part is stupid. I like to bring my girlfriend out if i go for a round of golf around 7pm to walk with me and its great.

[golferboy]

Basically its all about money....I hate carts...I believe they slow the game down, especially at courses with cart path only rules in place.

But as far as having someone walking the course, they dont want you letting the non-paying person hitting the occasional ball, which would slow down other players on the course, as most likely that person is a beginner. Plus why should the course have to 'babysit' and watch to make sure the 'non-paying' person isnt hitting balls......and what if they are and they hit someone else?

[Golden Bear]

Tell me HOW this is not "NECESSARILY" a Ca$h Grab!!? :confused: :(



Huh? I did. Read my post. And it's not like I was defending the policy.



THen tell us the truth!!! I agree with you totally 100%. So why lie to your customers, tell them the truth.Agreed. They can either tell a lie that we know is a lie, or they can tell the truth. Either way, we hate the policy, and we're not going to like it. Why do they need to add to it by telling a blatant lie?

[Grass Roots Tour]

I totally agree with HoganNut here.

This lawsuit thing is total BS and insulting. I can;t even bring my 8 yr old to the local muni course here in KW. They too sighted some BS story about legal issues.

Someone please explain to me how having paid a green fee exonerates the golf course if someone gets hit by a golf ball.

I've never heard (in my almost 30 yrs of golfing) of someone suing because they got hit by a ball.... much less the course being involved in any way.

What happens when one of the hundreds of courses that line the highways have a stray ball hit a car? It seems to me that situation would / could cause MUCH more legal possibilities and MUCH more damage.

And then theres the caddy issue.

So your in a tournament with almost all foursomes. You'd love to bring a caddy to help you out for the day but you're told no for one of many possible BS reasons.

Why? Does the course actually think you'd have your "caddy" drop a ball and hit some shots for free during a tournament ??

Where does the future of the game lie if courses don't hire pros any more to work in the "pro shop"?

At what age are we "allowed" to introduce our kids to the game so that they might become interested early enough to become decent players.?


Really people ...... the tiny possibility of losing a few dollars today in nothing compared to what you'll lose long term if our kids don't play.

[hogannut]

Zach Johsnon.....multiple winner on the PGA tour in 2007.

Anyway.....it seems obvious most of us think this is a cash grab. As Grass Roots says what is happening with golf courses? Where is the kind old pro who gives the little kid a pat on the back and a wink of the eye as he goes out with Dad to play 9 holes? This kid will someday be a paying customer of the facility and the pro's used to recognize that.

I have very fond memories caddying as a 12 year old kid. I remember hanging out with the other kids waiting to get assigned to a golfer, and how excited I was when the caddy master called your name. Usually the golfer would buy you a hot dog and a coke at the halfway house. You also knew if you tried your best you'd probably get a 50 cent or maybe a dollar tip at the end.

Instead now we have carts, so we can get through the round as fast as possible (although it takes longer in a cart) and not have to worry about spoiling the day by actually having to walk!!

[corchard]

Mark Twain's quote: "Golf is a good walk spoiled" will likely be a thing of the past. You heard it here first "Golf is a good drive spoiled". Vroom. Vroom.

[mccho]

I agree with both of you, the courses are afraid the extra person will try to play. You solve the problem by implementing a policy that if a caddy/walker is caught playing you are immediately removed from the course....no questions asked....no second chance.

It is such a shame these golf carts have killed such a great aspect to the game.....the caddy. It was my first job, and is a great summer job for a kid. THey are outside....which kids these days don't do enough, and they are being exposed to the game. I guess it is more important for the courses to make $ on cart rental and slow the game down than develop it.

From another thread there was concern regarding lack of development in our next generation of Mike Weirs. Maybe implementing the caddy program could help enthuse the younger generation?

Anyways, yes I think it is absolutely obsurd. My grandparents (76 and 85) who have never been exposed to this game we call golf, came to Canada for a visit last year. My parents took them out, had them ride in a cart and had to pay for their green fees. Absolute BS.

The last time I checked, green fees were to pay for all the divots and alterations a player possibly could make in his/her round of golf while playing.
If walking the course is considered such an obstruction, kill all the wild life too for spoiling the greens.

[Hombre Lefty]

the insurance excuse is not entirely BS... many courses have been hit with big insurance rate hikes unless certain rules are modified (like not allowing walkers). A non paying person walking out there is a potential minefield if they get injured and sue the course. They're modifying other rules too, like not allowing you to take power carts to the parking lot anymore, among other things. Cheesy i know, but i also know they actually are getting reamed by their insurance companies too following on from some pretty frivolous lawsuits in the states making the insurers a little antsy....

[Bobs Golf]

I have very fond memories caddying as a 12 year old kid. I remember hanging out with the other kids waiting to get assigned to a golfer, and how excited I was when the caddy master called your name. Usually the golfer would buy you a hot dog and a coke at the halfway house. You also knew if you tried your best you'd probably get a 50 cent or maybe a dollar tip at the end.

Instead now we have carts, so we can get through the round as fast as possible (although it takes longer in a cart) and not have to worry about spoiling the day by actually having to walk!!

In my day we could make $5 a round as a caddie, and get 4 rounds in a weekend. We got to know the Doctor, Hotel manager and chief of police. It paid for the cigarettes, movies and weekday golf.
Being a caddy was a good thing. When it came down to the crunch, the chief of police would give you the 'look' and that would be the end of it - unless you were an idiot and did whatever it was again.

[bythehour]

The "insurance" excuse is not entirely B.S., but it isn't exactly truthful either. The commercial liability policies of golf courses cover injuries to their customers. If a walker doesn't pay, they aren't covered because they aren't a customer.

Golf courses usually also have insurance for damages caused to peripheral persons or property (neighboring homes, etc).

The problem is that non-paying walkers occupy a grey area. They are neither customers nor are they peripheral property/persons.

The problem is that the insurance company can refuse to fund the defense of litigation by the walker. If so, never mind the damages award; the cost of litigation comes out of the golf course's pocket.

Hence, the line about insurance is valid, but it is entirely for the benefit of the golf course.

I don't see why walkers aren't just required to sign a waiver saying they assume all the risks of players, etc.

P.S. I took my dad walking (ok, riding) last year at Angus Glen and was not charged for anything...

[mccho]

The "insurance" excuse is not entirely B.S., but it isn't exactly truthful either. The commercial liability policies of golf courses cover injuries to their customers. If a walker doesn't pay, they aren't covered because they aren't a customer.

Golf courses usually also have insurance for damages caused to peripheral persons or property (neighboring homes, etc).

The problem is that non-paying walkers occupy a grey area. They are neither customers nor are they peripheral property/persons.

The problem is that the insurance company can refuse to fund the defense of litigation by the walker. If so, never mind the damages award; the cost of litigation comes out of the golf course's pocket.

Hence, the line about insurance is valid, but it is entirely for the benefit of the golf course.

I don't see why walkers aren't just required to sign a waiver saying they assume all the risks of players, etc.

P.S. I took my dad walking (ok, riding) last year at Angus Glen and was not charged for anything...

Funny how golf courses have a waiver for golf carts, yet that option doesn't exist for caddies.

[el tigre]

I understand the golf course owner's concerns about insurance coverage for non-paying customers. What I do not understand is why some of them insist on charging the FULL green fee (plus cart fee if applicable) for someone who is not there to play golf. That's just a cash grab.

Why not charge a nominal fee of $5 to walk, $15 to ride? Insurance problem is solved and everybody is happy!

[kimo62]

I understand the golf course owner's concerns about insurance coverage for non-paying customers. What I do not understand is why some of them insist on charging the FULL green fee (plus cart fee if applicable) for someone who is not there to play golf. That's just a cash grab.

Why not charge a nominal fee of $5 to walk, $15 to ride? Insurance problem is solved and everybody is happy!

This is how it should be .........not full greens fee.

BTW all golf north courses I play let me take my 2 sons on the course for free.They're 5 and 2. twilight rounds and I only let them hit from about 20 yrds and only 2 putts allowed. Doesn't slow any one down and they have fun.

I hate when they run through the bunkers though.:mad: :mad:

[BowmanvilleJim]

I take my 7 yr old son to my home course occaissonaly. He rides in the cart, tends the flag stick and rakes the bunker. He is always under my care and guidance. I have never been told I couldn't bring him out.

Ofcourse I always tip him for his services and the last time out my buddy tipped him $5 too. He was thrilled about all the money he made and he is developing a real interest in the game (which has dad thrilled).

[mccho]

I take my 7 yr old son to my home course occaissonaly. He rides in the cart, tends the flag stick and rakes the bunker. He is always under my care and guidance. I have never been told I couldn't bring him out.

Ofcourse I always tip him for his services and the last time out my buddy tipped him $5 too. He was thrilled about all the money he made and he is developing a real interest in the game (which has dad thrilled).

Ahhh... then benefits that fathers get from sons...(get me a beer from the fridge... haha). I've seen many posters promoting kids golf (for free).
I think it's an excellent idea since the game will have generations of golfers plus any new additions aka people starting to golf.

[BowmanvilleJim]

Not to mentioned the increase revenues since I wouldn't normally rent a cart but I do when he comes along.

[Big Shooter]

I take my 7 yr old son to my home course occaissonaly. He rides in the cart, tends the flag stick and rakes the bunker. He is always under my care and guidance. I have never been told I couldn't bring him out.

Ofcourse I always tip him for his services and the last time out my buddy tipped him $5 too. He was thrilled about all the money he made and he is developing a real interest in the game (which has dad thrilled).

That's how I learned to play!
...and love playing with my Dad to this day!!
(of course, he still pays for me when WE play, since I let him use "the Dad rules"...tip-it-up, mutilple-mulligans, pull-it-out from bushes/trees, and listen to his on-course golf advice!!!) ;)