What A Load Of BS From Wie

[Golfbum]

Does Michelle Wie actually think people are going to believe this line of BS? (http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.aspx?page=15104&select=22707) :rolleyes: Her actions on the golf course are ridiculous as far as I am concerned. It is time the media put her story line on the back burner, or better yet totally forget about her.
I for one have had more than enough of the WIE CIRCUS. :rolleyes:
Before you freak out at me and tell me to lighten up on a teenageer be sure to read the whole article. Especially the part where her Manager stops to talk to her. Then suddenly she withdraws. Does EIGHTY EIGHT COME IN TO PLAY? :eek: You ask yourself that then make your comment!

[Bellyhungry]

Like I said, she will marry a rich Korean man and move to there and fade into obscurity. She will be nothing but a footnote very soon.

BTW, stop picking on 17 year old minor....Your new heart does not need the stress :)

[TourIQ]

Does EIGHTY EIGHT COME IN TO PLAY? :eek: You ask yourself that then make your comment!
Please explain the '88' Golfbum.

[kookie]

I think there is some LPGA rule that if a non-LPGA member shoots 88+, then the player is banned from the tour for one year.

If she ends up playing next week then I question the wrist injury excuse :rolleyes:

[Golfbum]

I think there is some LPGA rule that if a non-LPGA member shoots 88+, then the player is banned from the tour for one year.

If she ends up playing next week then I question the wrist injury excuse :rolleyes:

Dead on about the "88 Rule"
Funny, she is heading to the tee box and her Manager suddenly appears, chats with her. Then she walks to an official and says she is quitting due to a wrist injury.
Then she goes into a secure building, removes the wraps. Comes back out and states she is going to play next weekend :rolleyes: Meanwhile she is going to work on the wrist injury :confused:
She does not have to tee it up next week, I am already questioning her "WRIST INJURY"

Like I said, she will marry a rich Korean man and move to there and fade into obscurity. She will be nothing but a footnote very soon.

BTW, stop picking on 17 year old minor....Your new heart does not need the stress :)

Nothing wrong with my heart ;) 22.5 rounds of golf this month prove that my heart is just fine.
But Thanks for being concerned :)

[The Troll]

I don't blame her in any way....she is after all only 17 and isn't likely in charge of her life....she has been and is being very poorly handled. It has scarred her and likely will for a long time.

Find it all kinda sad really.... :(

[Golden Bear]

I was speculating that her "wrist injury" was a convenient excuse to avoid 88. It might be a little unfair for us to jump to this conclusion, since it could be a legitimate injury. But I just have this nagging feeling that it could well be a smokescreen. I hope I'm wrong.


Of course, we may be missing the real truth here.

Michelle Wie pulls out with a wrist injury ...

Phil Mickelson pulls out with a wrist injury ...

Phil and Michelle have a date this afternoon. They just messed up and used the same excuse.

She's a minor, Phil. Come on.

I don't blame her in any way....she is after all only 17 and isn't likely in charge of her life....she has been and is being very poorly handled. It has scarred her and likely will for a long time.

Find it all kinda sad really.... :(

I agree that she's been poorly handled by greedy adults. I think there needs to come a time, though, when I can stop allowing her the "age" excuse. I'm not sure that that time's come yet ... but it could be approaching.

I've resigned myself to the same opinion others have expressed: she's got the talent, but may not have the drive to be anything other than a novelty act.

Other young players are passing her by, and today just feels like another sad episode in the decline and demise of a promising player's career

[BowmanvilleJim]

I don't believe that she withdrew because of the wrist injury, she did it to avoid the 88 and the repercutions of that. I also don't blame her one bit. Any one of us would have done the same thing in her shoes. It would be stupid to risk getting banned for a year at this point.

I do think her score today was influenced by the injury and lack of playing.

[milhaus]

I've spent a bunch of energy defending Wie in the past, but this is garbage. The evidence certainly suggests there was some strategic planning involved here . . . that's just disgraceful . . .

[Ben Hogans]

I don't believe that she withdrew because of the wrist injury, she did it to avoid the 88 and the repercutions of that. I also don't blame her one bit. Any one of us would have done the same thing in her shoes. It would be stupid to risk getting banned for a year at this point.

I do think her score today was influenced by the injury and lack of playing.

...and if you were her manager (assuming you new the 88 rule), you would of told her to do the same thing.

Question though, does such a rule exist in the PGA tour?

[Golden Bear]

Whether it's a crock or not, she really should not play next week. Whether the wrist was a legitimate reason or not, it's going to look awfully fishy if she comes right back again next week.

[BowmanvilleJim]

Yes Ben I would have told her to withdraw. That's part of what the manager gets paid for.

Tour players withdraw all the time because they're playing like crud. They're forced to claim injury but it's obvious that often the injury is BS.

[hogannut]

For anyone who has a potential up and coming child is sports, music, whatever compare what has happened to MW, and how Tiger was managed by his parents. Obviously the road Tiger was put was the correct one.

IMO....although it is true that MW's management group has damaged her, I think that is only part of the situation. THe other part is MW herself, and I don't think she has the mental ability to compete at the very elite level. She simply is a good ball striker, and good ball strikers alone don't make it in professional sports. ALL pro golfers are good ball strikers, so except for being able to hit a bit further than those other women pro's she is now at "par" with the fields she plays in.

Her amatuer record if you really look at is OK, but not earth shattering. Morgan Pressel's amatuer record is as good as MW's, and now because Morgan has been groomed properly, and the fact she IS a competitor she is starting to get her game to the next level.

When you look at the greats in the game both present and past they all enjoyed COMPETITNG with their peers. Hogan battled against Snead and Nelson, Nicklaus against Palmer, Player and later Watson, and unfortunately we are waiting for someone to step it up a bit regarding giving Tiger a bit more to be concerned with. THe point is when you watch these guys in interviews, particularily the older ones who are now retired and can reflect on their careers, they all talk about the thrill of competiting.

I don't think MW has that in her. I think she is an over coached prodigy who because of her physical stature can hit a golf ball a long way. We are now into year 5 of seeing MW on tv and to date except for a few occasions here and there her pattern is always play bad when she needs to play well. This is an indication she does not have the competitive spirit. It's not a knock on her, as if this is true it is better for her to know now than later.

MW should compete in long drive contests, go to college and play some golf and live her life that is now financially set as long as she doesn't spend $ like an idiot. I don't think she will ever develop into what she was made out to be 5 years ago.

Eric Lindros is another example. I can't remember a more disapointing NHL career from a player who dominated in junior. Again bad management was a part of Eric's inabilities along with some timely injuries.

[The Troll]

I think there is some LPGA rule that if a non-LPGA member shoots 88+, then the player is banned from the tour for one year.



Sadly, The Troll has officially been banned from the LPGA for 2007. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:



Phil and Michelle have a date this afternoon.

I have a great answer for this....but I'd better not. :D

[Ben Hogans]

Yes Ben I would have told her to withdraw. That's part of what the manager gets paid for.

Tour players withdraw all the time because they're playing like crud. They're forced to claim injury but it's obvious that often the injury is BS.

B.Jim - my post was not a shot at you. Just adding to the quote.

I guess what I was implying is that it would of cost the manager huge had he not told her.

As for the PGA, the pros WD'ing...is this monitored on how often the WD and is there a penalty for multiple WDs?

[Bellyhungry]

B.Jim - my post was not a shot at you. Just adding to the quote.

I guess what I was implying is that it would of cost the manager huge had he not told her.

As for the PGA, the pros WD'ing...is this monitored on how often the WD and is there a penalty for multiple WDs?

As far as I know, early withdrawal will prevent problems that people will regret later on but it is hard for the party involved because in our heart of heart, we want to finish the job and also it is hard to know when to withdraw when...Wait, you are talking about tournament golf? :rolleyes:

[The Troll]

....is there a penalty for multiple WDs?

If there was Daly would have felt the sting.

[Golfbum]

If there was Daly would have felt the sting.

Daly will not be banned for shooting an 88.
Wie would have. There in lies the difference in withdrawing.

Come on guys wake up and smell the coffee :D I do not care how old she was when she made this decision toturn Pro. She has a mind of her own (Although I am wondering about that) so she could have said "NO, I do not want to turn Pro. I want to go to college and compete there. Then I will turn Pro when I am done college." She was influenced by her parents, Nike, her agents and other sponsors. Funny, do you see many Michelle Wie Nike commercials airing on TV? $20 Mil US wasted.

Lots of child prodigies have made their own minds up about their futures. Last night I was talking to a promising 14 year old hockey player in regards to his decision in 2008 for the OHL Draft. His head is clearly screwed on his shoulders and I suspect he will make the decision that he feels is correct for himself. OHL or US College.

She had the same chance, she blew it. She has no drive to compete. Her amateur record proves that. One Junior Publinks Title. WoooooooooHooooooooo. IMO she is not worthy to wipe the sweat off Morgan Pressel's brow!

[The Troll]

Daly will not be banned for shooting an 88.


BH and I were talking about multiple WD's on the PGA tour.

[wayland]

golfbum,

man you and Harry really have it in for the girl. I respect your thoughts on this but you know what? not every one makes the correct decisions in life all the time. and as a bystander who is watching her with a microscope, it's easy to pick her career apart as you have/are doing. either way, it's her life...why does it bother you that much?

In all fairness, if we were to analyze your life choices...is there nothing you've done that can be flamed about in hindsight? I don't think anyone can say no to that question so why bother? It's easy for us to pick out the ones that went bad as you have (Wie, Lindros)...but many other youths have made similar choices and have had it pay off such as Lebron, McGrady, Kobe to name a few. If Michelle won a lpga tour event and made a cut in a real men's event, you wouldn't be reaming her out. So my point is, it's easy to look at one's failures and question their decisions but it's a waste of breath IMO because no one is perfect and time is too precious to dwell on the failures in life...instead we should look at the positives. She has more than $20M in the bank...do you think no one here would want to be in her shoes?

[iyell4]

"Wie's round included a 10 on the par-5 third hole, when her first drive hit a parked car :eek: and rolled down a roadway drain. "It was actually quite funny," she said. "I was going to crawl down the drain to show people it was in play. But I couldn't fit."

i haven't don that before! YIKES!

I think there is some LPGA rule that if a non-LPGA member shoots 88+, then the player is banned from the tour for one year.
money talks ... i think sponsors can 'convince' LPGA to let her play their tourney ...

'sides, the ban is from the LPGA ... isn't Wiesy's main gig the BIG SHOW with Woods et al.?

[TourIQ]

I don't believe that she withdrew because of the wrist injury, she did it to avoid the 88 and the repercutions of that. I also don't blame her one bit. Any one of us would have done the same thing in her shoes. It would be stupid to risk getting banned for a year at this point.

No Jim, many guys / gals would of just sucked it up and finished the last 2 holes.

[Bellyhungry]

Sometimes, I wish my so-called mistake and bad parenting will put 20M in my bank account. She is in a can't lose situation (can't win either)....

Think about this for a moment....

There's no guarantee that she will improve had she stayed amateur. What if she stay amateur and she play like she does now? She will be in the same situation BUT without 20M in the bank because she won't get signed.

Instead, she should have turned pro a year earlier. In which case, she would have had 40M in the bank rather than 20M before her game gone South.

[TourIQ]

golfbum, man you and Harry really have it in for the girl.Hi wayland
Gee I just asked what the '88' meant :confused:.

If you are going to quote me out of context [this thread only]
then you have to give me your Lehman Box Toes TM 300's :rofl:

[Shake99]

I try to refrain from comment on the sideshow BUT just so everyone is clear the speculation on the 88 aspect of the withdrawal comes form the Associated Press see below from the Golf Channel website so point the fingers there not here.



njured Wie Withdraws from Ginn Open
By Associated Press - May 31, 2007
http://images.thegolfchannel.com/images/tournaments/lpga/184593.jpgMOUNT PLEASANT, S.C. -- Michelle Wie withdrew from the Ginn Tribute on Thursday after shooting 14 over par through 16 holes, aggravating a wrist injury that sidelined her since January.

After Wie bogeyed the par-4 seventh, the 17-year-old star from Hawaii told an LPGA tour official: "We're not going to play anymore."


http://images.thegolfchannel.com/images/EventPhoto/U-Z/184766.jpgMichelle Wie withdrew after aggravating her already sore wrist. (Getty Images)

Wie wore bandages on her wrists during the round and said her withdraw was because she "tweaked" the injury and not because of an LPGA rule that bans nontour members for the year if they shoot 88 or higher. Wie was two bogeys from that scenario when she stopped.

"I had issues with my wrist," she said. "Shooting 88 is not what I think about."

Wie's round included a 10 on the par-5 third hole, when her first drive hit a parked car and rolled down a roadway drain. "It was actually quite funny," she said. "I was going to crawl down the drain to show people it was in play. But I couldn't fit."

After her provisional tee shot went way left, Wie's third drive landed in the rough and she went on to a quintuple bogey.

Wie made a final bogey on No. 7. As she headed to the tee, she was stopped by her manager, Greg Nard. The two chatted for a few moments before they called an LPGA official to end the round.

Wie walked onto the eighth tee, shook hands with playing partners Janice Moodie and Alena Sharp got on a cart with her parents and caddie and drove back to the clubhouse.

Wie went to a private room to have her bandages taken off. She briefly had an ice bag on her left wrist before taking questions.

Wie had not played a tournament since missing the cut at the PGA Tour Sony Open in January.

Things looked promising when Wie teed off on the 10th hole in the foggy South Carolina morning. Her drive landed cleanly in the fairway and she two-putted from about 40 feet for par.

Wie drove into a pond on the 11th for a bogey. She hit a tree with her tee shot on the next hole and made double bogey.

On her first par-3, the 14th, Wie landed in the woods right of the green. She chose to re-tee and again went right. A chip and two putts later, Wie had made a triple bogey and stood at 7 over through five holes.

Wie's problems continued on the par-5 16th as she pushed her drive into clumps of grass. She took relief about 80 yards behind her ball for yet another bogey.

Wie looked as if she had settled her game on the 18th hole with a long drive in the fairway and an approach to 1 foot for her only birdie.

Then came the third hole when Wie's round collapsed.

"It was a bad hole," she said. "Everybody has a bad hole."

Wie hopes to play in next week's major, the McDonald's LPGA Championship.

"I want to be smart about" the injury, Wie said. "But I definitely want to get back playing, so I'm going to work on it."

[the_har]

I am so sick of her. She hasn't accomplished anything yet, but she has the gall to play on the pga. Hope she dies (in golf) a slow painful death

[wayland]

No Harry, my reference to you was regarding other threads you've posted about her.

These Wie bash threads seem to be recurring thing on TGN.

[TourIQ]

These Wie bash threads seem to be recurring thing on TGN.In case you haven't heard or noticed wayland, her public opinion has nose dived over the past year and this is pretty consistent with various forums around the globe. Its not the girl, its the team and the approach taken. Few like the FREE rides [within the rules to accept] but its almost expected by the Wie's. If she qualified on her own her admirers would jump 100 fold. I would guess if you were a fly on the wall inside the LPGA locker room that many ladies would be quite thrilled really, and they are not the ones who are afraid of a little serious competition ... but they earned their spot the hard way, many with no money of their own.

[DavidY]

The number 8 means wealth or $$$ to many asians and therefore, it is a number that is very much sought after. :D

Dave

[the_har]

In case you haven't heard or noticed wayland, her public opinion has nose dived over the past year and this is pretty consistent with various forums around the globe. Its not the girl, its the team and the approach taken. Few like the FREE rides [within the rules to accept] but its almost expected by the Wie's. If she qualified on her own her admirers would jump 100 fold. I would guess if you were a fly on the wall inside the LPGA locker room that many ladies would be quite thrilled really, and they are not the ones who are afraid of a little serious competition ... but they earned their spot the hard way, many with no money of their own.

Tour IQ - you are so right- she has not earned any rights (or respect) within the golfing world. It has all been a free ride for her. SHE IS COMPLETELY USELESS. Also, she should have established herself before making a mockery of the PGA. I'm sure they're were some choice words spoken of her in the men's locker room about her competing with the boys when she can't even play against the girls. I'm sure Vijay had alot to say. I'm surprised he kept quiet and behaved himself. He's usually outspoken.



I also have no respect for NIKE for endorsing her.

[Golfbum]

golfbum,

man you and Harry really have it in for the girl. I respect your thoughts on this but you know what? not every one makes the correct decisions in life all the time. and as a bystander who is watching her with a microscope, it's easy to pick her career apart as you have/are doing. either way, it's her life...why does it bother you that much?

In all fairness, if we were to analyze your life choices...is there nothing you've done that can be flamed about in hindsight? I don't think anyone can say no to that question so why bother? It's easy for us to pick out the ones that went bad as you have (Wie, Lindros)...but many other youths have made similar choices and have had it pay off such as Lebron, McGrady, Kobe to name a few. If Michelle won a lpga tour event and made a cut in a real men's event, you wouldn't be reaming her out. So my point is, it's easy to look at one's failures and question their decisions but it's a waste of breath IMO because no one is perfect and time is too precious to dwell on the failures in life...instead we should look at the positives. She has more than $20M in the bank...do you think no one here would want to be in her shoes?

NO Wayland, I am sorry to say but you are totally off base here. I am not out to "GET MICHELLE WIE" What ticks me off is she takes the spot of someone who can compete. You tell me this and if you are OK with this then good for you.
Do you think it is fair that she takes a sponsors exemption and thus takes away the right of a Carded PGA Member to play in the John Deere Classic? Now think about this, put yourself in Joe Tour Player's shoes. You are trying to retain your card, but you are not totally exempt this year. Now along comes a pampered spoiled little rich 17 year old girls and she is invited to play and you stay home. You miss the chance of making the cut (Be realistic, what chance does she have? She has not made the cut at a PGA event yet), and there goes a pay cheque. Plus what if you were playing lights out coming into that event and you finished in the TOP 5, or better yet won the event? Now you are set for the rest of the year and next year too. But you do not get that chance. You would you feel?

Don't misunderstand me Wayland. I am all for women trying to excel in the Men's World. But when it comes to MEN'S PRO Golf she is dreaming, her parents are dreaming, her management team is dreaming. The claims of 300 yards drives are bogus, except in HI where over 75% of the field can hit it 300+ all day.
She belongs on her own tour. Plus IMO she has to earn the right to play on the LPGA. All the other young women earned their way onto that tour. I watched some players last year at the event in London, struggling to make the cut so they could earn a living. Women who travelled from Texas etc, trying to make a living the hard way. On a Pro Golf Tour. Those young ladies will never see $2 million let alone $20 million.
Miss Wie had it handed to her on a silver platter. Am I jealous? Not at all. Good for her. But that still does not give her the right to take a spot away in an event from a card bearing member.

Can I look back on my life and say I made mistakes? Damn right I can. Smoking a pack a day, which quite likely too me down the road to a heart attack and a double by pass was a big mistake in life. There have been other minor issues in my life too. However I have worked hard during my life time to get to where I am now. My life was given to me on a silver platter. I earned it.This week I celebrated 25 years of marriage, I must be doing something right in that department :D

But having $20 million handed to you does not give you the right to take away spots in tour events, be it LPGA or PGA. All that money does is make you rich. I can almost bet that Miss Wie is thinking "I am damn glad I have that endorsement money, as my career is not going too good right now"

Do not accuse me of "having it in for her" Accuse me of stating the facts. Facts that are in plain view for everyone who wants to open their eyes and do some reading. I have stated my opinions and I am not going to argue over this issue. You defend her if you wish, I chose not too. It also appears that I am not the only one on this FORUM who is tired of the Miss Wie & Company Act. Should we put a poll on here to decide that? She gets bashed on other sites too. She got bashed on her own website and within 24 hours of those posts that website was no longer online :confused: Server problem? Somehow I doubt that very much:rofl:

[TourIQ]

NO Wayland, I am sorry to say but you are totally off base here. I am not out to "GET MICHELLE WIE" What ticks me off is she takes the spot of someone who can compete. You tell me this and if you are OK with this then good for you.
Do you think it is fair that she takes a sponsors exemption and thus takes away the right of a Carded PGA Member to play in the John Deere Classic? Now think about this, put yourself in Joe Tour Player's shoes. You are trying to retain your card, but you are not totally exempt this year. Now along comes a pampered spoiled little rich 17 year old girls and she is invited to play and you stay home. You miss the chance of making the cut (Be realistic, what chance does she have? She has not made the cut at a PGA event yet), and there goes a pay cheque. Plus what if you were playing lights out coming into that event and you finished in the TOP 5, or better yet won the event? Now you are set for the rest of the year and next year too. But you do not get that chance. You would you feel?

Don't misunderstand me Wayland. I am all for women trying to excel in the Men's World. But when it comes to MEN'S PRO Golf she is dreaming, her parents are dreaming, her management team is dreaming. The claims of 300 yards drives are bogus, except in HI where over 75% of the field can hit it 300+ all day.
She belongs on her own tour. Plus IMO she has to earn the right to play on the LPGA. All the other young women earned their way onto that tour. I watched some players last year at the event in London, struggling to make the cut so they could earn a living. Women who travelled from Texas etc, trying to make a living the hard way. On a Pro Golf Tour. Those young ladies will never see $2 million let alone $20 million.
Miss Wie had it handed to her on a silver platter. Am I jealous? Not at all. Good for her. But that still does not give her the right to take a spot away in an event from a card bearing member.

Can I look back on my life and say I made mistakes? Damn right I can. Smoking a pack a day, which quite likely too me down the road to a heart attack and a double by pass was a big mistake in life. There have been other minor issues in my life too. However I have worked hard during my life time to get to where I am now. My life was given to me on a silver platter. I earned it.This week I celebrated 25 years of marriage, I must be doing something right in that department :D

But having $20 million handed to you does not give you the right to take away spots in tour events, be it LPGA or PGA. All that money does is make you rich. I can almost bet that Miss Wie is thinking "I am damn glad I have that endorsement money, as my career is not going too good right now"

Do not accuse me of "having it in for her" Accuse me of stating the facts. Facts that are in plain view for everyone who wants to open their eyes and do some reading. I have stated my opinions and I am not going to argue over this issue. You defend her if you wish, I chose not too. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I've always maintained I want to see Michelle win on the LPGA, as I also cheer for the underdog. Who wants to play their whole career on tour without at least 1 win? For me Skip Kendall comes to mind, as his closest to tasting victory was a 2nd twice, once losing to Mickelson in a playoff. Now he plays the Nationwide. Everyone on tour deserves a win when they put in their time. Who would ever want to play a team sport and never taste victory just once?

My problem is more with Michelle's Management team [Inner Circle] who has exploited a young girl. How sad is this? Sure people will say she received $20M, but how gratifying is the cash when it was never really earned, or never lived up to the high expectations placed on her? How much psychologist damage are they doing to the girl? Do you think she loves golf to the same degree she did when she won the PubLinks at a very young age? Its been a stedy decline since then. They are now reaping what they sewed ...

[ginrin]

WOW You guys get worked up over small issues. Unfortunately everything about major league sports is about money,like it or not.Not defending her but the sponsors give her the exemption so they can sell tickets.Everyone hated Tiger when he first came on tour because of all the hype but now love him because of all the money he brought to the table thru TV contracts etc.All sports is about business and money,I refuse to pay to watch a guy pitch a ball for$10,000 a ball(Clemens et al).
Think for a minute back to when you were 17,how would you have acted with 5millions in your backpocket?At least she's not like Britney Spears and Paris Hilton.
Time for a beer I think:hush:

[TourIQ]

I am so sick of her. She hasn't accomplished anything yet, but she has the gall to play on the pga. Hope she dies (in golf) a slow painful death

Why is Michelle quoted as saying "We're not going to play anymore".
Isn't the appropriate response "I'm not going to play anymore"?

Wie, with bandaged wrists, quits after 16 holes
http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1626928,00.html?eref=golf

"When an injury is in the back of you're mind, you're thinking, 'Oh, this is going to hurt,'" said Wie. "The last thing you're thinking about is trying to hit the ball straight."
Before Wie teed off on 8, her manager, Greg Nared, approached her, and the two talked briefly. Afterward Wie told an LPGA official, "We're not going to play anymore."
It's not clear whose decision it was to withdraw. During the round Wie wasn't obviously bothered by her wrist, and she looked surprised when Nared approached her on 8. (Nared didn't stick around to answer questions after Wie's press conference.)
Wie says she wasn't thinking about the LPGA's 88 rule, which stipulates that any non-LPGA player (Wie was there on a sponsor's exemption) who doesn't break 88 in a round is not allowed to finish the tournament or play in any other tournaments for the rest of the season. "I don't think about shooting 88," she said. "That's not what I do."
Wie didn't seem to think her disastrous Thursday would have much effect on her ability to play next week at the McDonald's LPGA Championship in Maryland. "I definitely want to play next week," said Wie, who has accepted a sponsor's exemption to play in the PGA's John Deere Classic in July. "I definitely know what to work on, so I'm excited to get back into it and try to work on it," she said, declining to elaborate. She added, "It's definitely going to be better for next week."
It would be difficult, maybe season-ending, for her to be any worse.

[milhaus]

No Harry, my reference to you was regarding other threads you've posted about her.

These Wie bash threads seem to be recurring thing on TGN.
You're totally right Wayland. I've noticed that a few posters seem to be obsessed about Michelle Wie and enjoy laughing at her misfortunes. This week, they may have something, with the questionable injury, but still,it's the same people posting over and over again. They seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the girl . . .

The same goes for Phil haters. NO new threads about him winning the TPC (where was Tiger again??), but he pulls out of a tournament, and he's the butt of jokes again.

Fortunately, you don't see me posting a thread every time Tiger doesn't win a tournament (BTW, his little spazzes today were really poor), but perhaps their mothers never told them about the saying, "If you've got nothing good to say . . ."

[TourIQ]

Alena Sharp is also quoted in the following article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2888679

Wie's body language began to match her game. She slumped her shoulders and sighed repeatedly. She showed little energy, even in the form of frustration, trudging along to her ball and taking less than the usual time lining up putts. She said almost nothing to her playing partners or to her caddie. And no wonder. Her round felt like a geological excursion, going from water to pavement to sand to tall grass.

Then came the bottom: the par-5 third hole. Wie's tee shot veered out of bounds, into a street and down a storm drain. LPGA commissioner Carolyn Bivens, who suddenly appeared on the fringe of the fairway, stood by as a little boy got on his hands and knees to peer into the drain in search of the ball. Wie played a provisional and hooked that into a pond. She walked toward the street in hopes of finding her ball, then turned and retraced her steps to the tee for the second time in the round. She eventually carded a quintuple-bogey 10, and she stood at 12-over after 12 holes.

Missing the cut became the least of Wie's troubles. The somewhat obscure Rule of 88 states that a nonmember who shoots 88 is forced to withdraw and subsequently banned from LPGA co-sponsored events for the remainder of the calendar season. Wie said later that she never considered the possibility, but soon after her score ballooned to 12-over on the par-72 course, her parents began consulting with each other and William Morris manager Greg Nared, who had a cell phone to his ear. Chris Higgs, the LPGA chief operations officer, soon drove up in a cart and spoke with Nared. Higgs had been talking about the Rule of 88 in the media tent, but he said he came out to Wie's rope line for "no particular reason."

Wie's score climbed to 14-over, and then, after Wie finished up on the seventh hole, Nared spoke to her briefly before she announced, "We're not going to play anymore."

Wie had a 43 on the front and was at 7-over 35 on the back -- two bogeys shy of 88. She shook hands with her competitors, glumly climbed into a cart, and rode to the clubhouse, where she met behind closed doors with her parents and Nared. The four spoke for 15 minutes, then an ice pack was brought in for Wie's left wrist. Wie then walked to the media tent without the ice pack.

[freddielinkster]

Gotta love these quotes from her - she's becoming a broken record - sad because she's not really even making sense anymore - And let's get off the she's only 17 bit - many other sports such as gymnastics, figure skating etc. have girls much younger than MW competing at world class levels...I've heard many of them interviewed after both good and bad performances...most come out alot more polished and coherent than MW - forget her bad golf and career mismanagement, her agents should be shot for not coaching her on how to address the media - I liked her much better with braces and her cute 14 year old vally girl talk...

Here are some of her winners from today's post round press conference - by the way, anything further on Dad talking to her and then Janice Moody approaching him - presumably to tell him to back off before he gets her DQ'd?

So just taking caution measures, and I know what to work on. The only way to go up from here is up, so I'm feeling pretty good about it.

I'm going reanalyze it and kind of try to be smart about it. But I definitely want to play next week. I definitely know what to work on, so I'm excited to get back into it and try to work on it.

But unfortunately I kind of pulled my shot left and then it's all a blur. It's a bad hole and everyone has bad holes. I'm just going to work on it and get better.

You know, I mean, there's really nothing else, I don't think.

from now on I'm going think about hitting fairways and hitting good shots and having fun out there.



Just very unfortunate, but I definitely know what to work on. I don't really want to talk about it now because I haven't really thought about it. I definitely want to work on a lot of things, and it's definitely going to be better for next week.

Okay so I spelled Valley Girl Vally girl...somehow kinda fit her quotes though...I forgot the best one that was with Kay Cockerill after the w/d but before the press conference...she said something along the line of the wrist felt good in practice rounds but she tweaked it...she needs lessons from Tiger in showing the public how to tweak an injury - when he hurts himself everyone knows it - huge dramatics, but then he shakes it off and finishes the round and doesn't w/d - gotta love him - she doesn't even show signs of the tweak, tells Kay that she's going to rest she guesses and then start hitting balls tomorrow cause she knows what to work on - if you've just pulled out due to a wrist, I'm not sure the 24 hour rest and then back at it is very convincing...there I'm done venting...I'm just in a bad mood cause I sat in the clubhouse at Caledon Woods all afternoon watching thunderstorm after thunderstorm roll in over the horizon...

[Grass Roots Tour]

I also have no respect for NIKE for endorsing her.



Hey now, lets not start Nike bashing here. They still make some of the nicest blades ever assembled. :p


I like Michelle Wie AND I especially like her swing. Sh*t, I wish my swing was that good. But she doesnt belong on the PGA tour, period.

And I have to agree with some other posters here. Earn your spot and don't take a spot from another guy trying to earn a living.

[nuffstyle]

My two cents.

Does a player who spends four years playing NCAA deserve to be in the NBA more than a the phenom who gets drafted straight out of high school?

Those young players often have a different and more difficult learning curve than players who are older and have been through the college system, but would you say they deserve it less?

Professional sports is a money game, and if someone's willing to pay to have them there, then that's what they're worth. Does anyone really deserve 20 million to play a game? Market forces say yes.

Is it unfair that someone who lives out of the back of their volkswagen in between tournaments might lose a spot to Michelle Wie? I don't think so.

I'm sure i'm going to be blasted for this, but if i'm paying money to see a tournament, i'd much rather see Michelle Wie (yes, even in a PGA event) than Joe Nobody who's struggling to make a name for himself.

[Big Shooter]

I do not care how old she was when she made this decision toturn Pro. She has a mind of her own (Although I am wondering about that) so she could have said "NO, I do not want to turn Pro. I want to go to college and compete there. Then I will turn Pro when I am done college." She was influenced by her parents, Nike, her agents and other sponsors.

Lots of child prodigies have made their own minds up about their futures.

hmmm, reminiscent of the Ty Tryon-story! (might have to Google his status these days...though I think I saw him unloading at the Bag Drop in Florida last year!):rolleyes: :cool:

[Golfbum]

No Harry, my reference to you was regarding other threads you've posted about her.

These Wie bash threads seem to be recurring thing on TGN.

Wayland, if you wonder where we get the information on Miss Wie and her actions........read on (http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2888679)
After you are done reading this do you not agree that this withdrawal sounds suspicious?
This is the reason I started this thread. Afterall this is a "Golf Forum" and she is a "Professional Golfer" playing in a Professional Golf Tournament. Her actions are worthy of discussion.

[Golden Bear]

The thing is, there AREN'T a lot of Wie-bashing threads under normal circumstances. (Normal being a relative thing, of course.) Wie-bashing threads come when she makes a farce of men's tournaments by getting sponsors' exemptions, and when she pulls stunts like she did yesterday. And when Wie-bashing occurs, it is these things that people are bashing her for.

Why else would Wie-bashing occur? Other players don't get bashed like she does ... because they don't get free rides that they haven't earned.

If Wie were to focus on being a golfer rather than a side show, I'd have no problem with her. I have doubts about her drive, but if she showed she had that drive, and if she were able to contend on a consistent and continuing basis on the LPGA tour, I'd probably be a fan.

But the reality is that she gets free rides, and has yet to prove that she's earned them. The only reason she gets sponsors exemptions now is that she's been marketed agressively and is famous-for-being-famous. People resent her for that, and that's to be expected.

Tied to all this is the fact that this is a player who possessed tremendous talent, and has pissed it away ... with the help of her parents. And as I said earlier, sooner or later we're going to have to stop allowing her the excuse of youth, because she's not 13 anymore.

[BowmanvilleJim]

hmmm, reminiscent of the Ty Tryon-story! (might have to Google his status these days...though I think I saw him unloading at the Bag Drop in Florida last year!):rolleyes: :cool:

I was thinking the same thing. I think Ty did the right thing. He turned pro when he was a hot item, cashed the big cheque from Callaway and then disappeared. If he hadn't turned pro but had continued on with college golf he may have improved or he may have disappeared anyway. At least today he's got some money.

[JEBS]

I'm sure i'm going to be blasted for this, but if i'm paying money to see a tournament, i'd much rather see Michelle Wie (yes, even in a PGA event) than Joe Nobody who's struggling to make a name for himself.

Not a blast, but I would rather see a Joe Nobody become somebody I would hate in my company if I worked my tail off to lose a promotion to someone parachuted in from the outside (especially if they were likely to fail)

I can understand Annika S. competing (pre injury)in the PGA She was dominating the LPGA for a long time, until recently she did not have much competition at all. But her commitment to the LPGA probably helped groom the talent and now the LPGA purses are getting into the 2-3 Million range!! I think Miss Wie could do better and commit to the LPGA if she wins tournament after tournamnet then (once she has learned to win) she can try the PGA.

Its too bad she will probably burn out befrore she turns 20, she will be very wealthy but she will only be remembered for the negatives not the solid golf game she could have developed. I think people want to see her play more PGA events because everyone wants to watch the train wreck.

[hogannut]

My two cents.

Does a player who spends four years playing NCAA deserve to be in the NBA more than a the phenom who gets drafted straight out of high school?

Those young players often have a different and more difficult learning curve than players who are older and have been through the college system, but would you say they deserve it less?

Professional sports is a money game, and if someone's willing to pay to have them there, then that's what they're worth. Does anyone really deserve 20 million to play a game? Market forces say yes.

Is it unfair that someone who lives out of the back of their volkswagen in between tournaments might lose a spot to Michelle Wie? I don't think so.

I'm sure i'm going to be blasted for this, but if i'm paying money to see a tournament, i'd much rather see Michelle Wie (yes, even in a PGA event) than Joe Nobody who's struggling to make a name for himself.

You are correct regarding getting blasted for this!!:eek: :shhh:

I would be curios if your opinion about the guy who sleeps in his car would change if that player was a friend or a family member? Yes pro sports is a business that needs money to survive, and the first few times MW tried this playing with the men thing it was a huge success.....for the BUSINESS end of things. However, without those guys who sleep in their cars there would be no pro tour because there would be no players. The MAJORITY of PGA players came from mini-tours and before that the college system, and before that the amatuer circuit. Zack Johnson was a "nobody" just a few years ago, and now he is a household name. So a couple of years ago you would have no interest in him, but now you do?

You are entitled to your opinion but I would say your opinion is an opinion shared by only a minority of true golf fans. THe majority of true golf fans enjoy watching the up and comers, to see if they can reach elite status against the best players in the world.

For example I have been following the career of Sean O'Hair ever since I saw the documentary on him about his father. Now that is developing into a contender on the PGA it is kind of neat having the experience of watching him as a new player and watching him develop.

Since you are using the famous Hogan 1 iron shot for your avatar I would like to point out that Hogan developed into the player he became by starting out as a nobody and essentially working harder than his competition. So.....if there were chat rooms around in the late 1930's I would assume you would have no interest in a "nobody" like BEn Hogan?:eek:

[Bellyhungry]

You are just p**sed because nuffstyle is using the same Avatar as you :D .

As for Wie, she is going to be a case study in sports marketing around campuses where the topic is 'what you should not do with a promising prospect'.

I think the majority of Wie observers' mindsets now have turned from watching a young promising golfers to watching a train wreck.

I am one of those who will watch with heigthen interest when Wie is in the field, but I am now waiting to see what is she going to do to blow up, similar to how I watched Lefty a few years back when he was in contention in several majors but choked down the stretch.


You are correct regarding getting blasted for this!!:eek: :shhh:

I would be curios if your opinion about the guy who sleeps in his car would change if that player was a friend or a family member? Yes pro sports is a business that needs money to survive, and the first few times MW tried this playing with the men thing it was a huge success.....for the BUSINESS end of things. However, without those guys who sleep in their cars there would be no pro tour because there would be no players. The MAJORITY of PGA players came from mini-tours and before that the college system, and before that the amatuer circuit. Zack Johnson was a "nobody" just a few years ago, and now he is a household name. So a couple of years ago you would have no interest in him, but now you do?

You are entitled to your opinion but I would say your opinion is an opinion shared by only a minority of true golf fans. THe majority of true golf fans enjoy watching the up and comers, to see if they can reach elite status against the best players in the world.

For example I have been following the career of Sean O'Hair ever since I saw the documentary on him about his father. Now that is developing into a contender on the PGA it is kind of neat having the experience of watching him as a new player and watching him develop.

Since you are using the famous Hogan 1 iron shot for your avatar I would like to point out that Hogan developed into the player he became by starting out as a nobody and essentially working harder than his competition. So.....if there were chat rooms around in the late 1930's I would assume you would have no interest in a "nobody" like BEn Hogan?:eek:

[wayland]

Wayland, if you wonder where we get the information on Miss Wie and her actions........read on (http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2888679)
After you are done reading this do you not agree that this withdrawal sounds suspicious?
This is the reason I started this thread. Afterall this is a "Golf Forum" and she is a "Professional Golfer" playing in a Professional Golf Tournament. Her actions are worthy of discussion.

As dishonourable this action is (and I agree it is), I'm willing to wager that the majority of people in this thread would do the same thing. Say you were out golfing with the wife (or whomever) and you made some stupid (yes because it's a stupid rule) wager that if you couldn't break 90, that you would NEVER play again for an entire calendar year. So you go out and have the worst round of your life and by the middle of the back nine you realize that you made this wager and you're very much in danger of not being able to play again for a year. What do you do? If that were me? I'd be walking off the course in a heartbeat and not submitting a scorecard. Is it the honourable thing to do? No sir it isn't. But if I'm having a bad day and some rule/wager is going to prohibit me from playing, I'm going to circumvent that rule just as Michelle did.

Now, which of you fine gents are going to step up claim that you wouldn't do the same thing?


This is the reason I started this thread. Afterall this is a "Golf Forum" and she is a "Professional Golfer" playing in a Professional Golf Tournament. Her actions are worthy of discussion.

Sure this is a golf forum. My point is, you and a few others sound like a broken record when it comes to anything regarding Michelle Wie. I had high hopes for her when she came on the scene but was quickly disappointed that she wasn't backing up the hype with an actual game. *shrug* So what, move on. How many other members of the LPGA/PGA tours are there? They are all "Professional Golfers", how many threads do you start about them? See my point? You guys are obsessing.

You seem pissed that she's using the guise of an injury to pull out when in all likelihood it's the 88 rule. So what? Do you think any professional is going to go in front of a camera and admit it? I'm not doubting it for a second.

As professional as they are, they are still human beings. Do you think no sports team has thrown in the towel when they are down by a large score?

[northernhiro]

the sponsor's exemption argument is a red herrring for Wie bashers. Nobody's outraged that a spot went to a girl with a heart condition who can't break 80 instead of a Josephine nobody trying to dig a game out of the dirt. Sponsor's exemptions have no effect on the struggling grinders out there. That's what monday qualifiers are for.

Besides, that other article posted implies that the LPGA had a hand in advising Wie's team that THEIR cash cow was in danger of sitting on the shelf for the rest of the season.

[setter02]

If your wrist was already sore, wouldn't you have noticed that maybe during the first 16 holes when you ability was that of the avg TGN'r :thumbs_up. It's way to fishy. Go to school have a real life and then pick up golf later, you can still play for the next 50 years. Nancy Lopez still makes money and Nike will always pay out people.

[Golden Bear]

the sponsor's exemption argument is a red herrring for Wie bashers. Nobody's outraged that a spot went to a girl with a heart condition who can't break 80 instead of a Josephine nobody trying to dig a game out of the dirt. Sponsor's exemptions have no effect on the struggling grinders out there. That's what monday qualifiers are for.



Hmm, it seems Michelle Wie can't break 80 either.

But you're talking about someone getting an exemption into a women's event. And the reasons she got the exemption were very, very different.

No one is questioning sponsors' exemptions. What's being questioned is Wie's continued exemptions into events she has no business playing in. Not one person has questioned whether she should be playing in LPGA events. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact. Everyone is perfectly happy to see her play six LPGA events a year, and I for one wouldn't complain one bit if she were to go the Morgan Pressel route and apply for an underage tour card. I'd applaud it. I'd love to see her focus on the LPGA rather than the circus.

The discussion about exemptions is specifically about her exemptions into PGA events, where not only has she never made a cut, but in recent events she finished dead last, when the sole purpose for her exemptions was to exploit her for marketing purposes, with little regard for what is best for her as a player. It's purely about using her as a cash-cow, circus sideshow.

But you can't compare it to a heart patient whose mother just died. It's not even the same ballpark.

[milhaus]

The thing is, there AREN'T a lot of Wie-bashing threads under normal circumstances. (Normal being a relative thing, of course.) Wie-bashing threads come when she makes a farce of men's tournaments by getting sponsors' exemptions, and when she pulls stunts like she did yesterday. And when Wie-bashing occurs, it is these things that people are bashing her for.

Why else would Wie-bashing occur? Other players don't get bashed like she does ... because they don't get free rides that they haven't earned.

Are you kidding me? There are tons of Wie bashing threads, and many posts in thread completely unrelated to Michelle Wie that bash her. I spent a lot of energy defending her, but can't do so anymore, but I'm not going to spend my time bashing her.

Also, other players don't get bashed? Lefty gets bashed a heck of a lot. Give me a break, he pulls out with a legit injury (he's had two WDs in his entire career), and the thread turns into a joke fest comparing him to MW (an example of the above) and gets accused of faking an injury? C'mon, give me a break. When he wins the TPC, nothing, except one thread where he still gets bashed for losing the US Open. If you check the threads, it's the same people, over and over again.

[Golden Bear]

Are you kidding me? There are tons of Wie bashing threads, and many posts in thread completely unrelated to Michelle Wie that bash her. I spent a lot of energy defending her, but can't do so anymore, but I'm not going to spend my time bashing her.


But what I'm saying is that the Wie-bashing threads bash her for specific reasons. She gets bashed for the number of PGA events she plays in. And she's now getting bashed for her fishy pullout.

But on the other hand, when it was erroneously reported that she was going to focus on women's events, sure, some people got shots in, but people were generally positive about that decision. And the shots that were dished out were primarily about what she had been doing to that point.


Also, other players don't get bashed? Lefty gets bashed a heck of a lot. Give me a break, he pulls out with a legit injury (he's had two WDs in his entire career), and the thread turns into a joke fest comparing him to MW (an example of the above) and gets accused of faking an injury? C'mon, give me a break. When he wins the TPC, nothing, except one thread where he still gets bashed for losing the US Open. If you check the threads, it's the same people, over and over again.Actually, no ... I was speaking specifically about the LPGA. No other LPGA players get bashed on a regular basis -- they focus on their game.

There are certainly PGA players who take heat. Not just Mickelson, but Woods, and often Mike Weir. But I was referring to the LPGA tour with my comment.

Mickelson is a polarizing player. Generally I like him, myself, even if I don't like the "go big or go home" approach to golf that he became known for. He's fun to watch when he's winning.

Whether there was a Mickelson thread when he won or not, I don't know ... but if you thought one should have existed, you could have started one. I would have said something positive about Mickelson's win.

[Big Shooter]

As dishonourable this action is (and I agree it is), I'm willing to wager that the majority of people in this thread would do the same thing. Say you were out golfing with the wife (or whomever) and you made some stupid (yes because it's a stupid rule) wager that if you couldn't break 90, that you would NEVER play again for an entire calendar year. So you go out and have the worst round of your life and by the middle of the back nine you realize that you made this wager and you're very much in danger of not being able to play again for a year. What do you do? If that were me? I'd be walking off the course in a heartbeat and not submitting a scorecard. Is it the honourable thing to do? No sir it isn't. But if I'm having a bad day and some rule/wager is going to prohibit me from playing, I'm going to circumvent that rule just as Michelle did.

Now, which of you fine gents are going to step up claim that you wouldn't do the same thing?

That is an absolutely ABSURD comparison, but 'somewhat' understandable if you're trying to DEFEND Michelle Wie....reminiscent of "SPIN DOCTORS/PUBLICISTS!!" ;) :confused:

[hogannut]

Are you kidding me? There are tons of Wie bashing threads, and many posts in thread completely unrelated to Michelle Wie that bash her. I spent a lot of energy defending her, but can't do so anymore, but I'm not going to spend my time bashing her.

Also, other players don't get bashed? Lefty gets bashed a heck of a lot. Give me a break, he pulls out with a legit injury (he's had two WDs in his entire career), and the thread turns into a joke fest comparing him to MW (an example of the above) and gets accused of faking an injury? C'mon, give me a break. When he wins the TPC, nothing, except one thread where he still gets bashed for losing the US Open. If you check the threads, it's the same people, over and over again.

For me anyway i "bashed" MW because IMO her actions were counter productive to the game itself. I have NEVER bashed ANY other player as I know what it takes to make it on a tour....any tour.

As for MW claiming injury on the 16th hole is smart on her part. I'd do the same thing. I'd use the rules to my advantage. IMO I don't believe her claim she was hurt, unless she jammed her wrist. Take Phil for example, he knew by the 2nd hole yesterday. MW warms up, plays 16 holes, and then claims injury....please give me a break.:hush:

[wayland]

That is an absolutely ABSURD comparison, but 'somewhat' understandable if you're trying to DEFEND Michelle Wie....reminiscent of "SPIN DOCTORS/PUBLICISTS!!" ;) :confused:

How is it absurd? Just put yourself in the situation I described and answer my question.

Defending her? Far from it. I have enough of my own problems, I have no time to defend someone who has $20M in the bank.

[ginrin]

This thread alone shows how much people follow the Wie parade.Something had to be wrong with her to shoot what she was shooting.C'mon guys we're talking about an LPGA course set-up not a USOpen or PGA Tour set-up.Having over 5000 people watching her trying to qualify for the US open shows what kind of draw she is in the States and her withdrawing is the headline for Annika's tournament.
Not going to enter in the discussion whether she's being misled but her life is a business regardless of success or failure.She certainly has a lot of pressure on her to succeed and as we all know in golf the harder you try the worst it gets.
Certainly wish I had a stake in her business though:rofl:

[TourIQ]

If you check the threads, it's the same people, over and over again. I have nothing but + things to say about Phil Mickelson :D

[hogannut]

This thread alone shows how much people follow the Wie parade.Something had to be wrong with her to shoot what she was shooting.C'mon guys we're talking about an LPGA course set-up not a USOpen or PGA Tour set-up.Having over 5000 people watching her trying to qualify for the US open shows what kind of draw she is in the States and her withdrawing is the headline for Annika's tournament.
Not going to enter in the discussion whether she's being misled but her life is a business regardless of success or failure.She certainly has a lot of pressure on her to succeed and as we all know in golf the harder you try the worst it gets.
Certainly wish I had a stake in her business though:rofl:

Actually the interest in her now is like comparing racing fans who show up to watch the crashes. 2 years ago it was a "positive" viewership, now there is a lot of "negative" interest in her. It's like Lindsay Lohen, a lot of people are only interested in Lindsay now to see how long it will take for her to screw up again, and are NOT interested in her development as an actress. MW is now in this boat in part due to perhaps the WORST management team in recent times.

Yes she has all this money NOW, but at what cost to her future. IMO....if I were her I'd pull a Sean O'Hair and cut all ties with the people who had been in charge of my life up until now. Find someone who is interested in what SHE wants and then make a plan to achieve those results.

As per Mike Tyson and Derek Sanderson....large amounts of $ can disappear quickly when you don't manage the $ properly, so freedom 16 may sound great and hopefully in 20 years she will still have most of the money left.

[Golfbum]

[quote=wayland]As dishonourable this action is (and I agree it is), I'm willing to wager that the majority of people in this thread would do the same thing. Say you were out golfing with the wife (or whomever) and you made some stupid (yes because it's a stupid rule) wager that if you couldn't break 90, that you would NEVER play again for an entire calendar year. So you go out and have the worst round of your life and by the middle of the back nine you realize that you made this wager and you're very much in danger of not being able to play again for a year. What do you do? If that were me? I'd be walking off the course in a heartbeat and not submitting a scorecard. Is it the honourable thing to do? No sir it isn't. But if I'm having a bad day and some rule/wager is going to prohibit me from playing, I'm going to circumvent that rule just as Michelle did.

Now, which of you fine gents are going to step up claim that you wouldn't do the same thing?


Let me be the first fine gent to step up and say I would not do that. First off, I would not make a stupid wager like that :D Second, I would stand back, take a deep breath and bare down for the rest of the round. I have been +6 after 6 holes and walked off 18 at +6.
It takes mental fortitude to be able to do this. It does not all come down to talent or a great swing.

Case in point. Charley Hoffman in the first round of the Memorial. +6 after 10 holes and the man finished with 5 straight birdies and birdied 18 to get back to even. All in the presence of the #1 Player In The World. So he was contending with huge galleries. He sucked it up and finished strong.

Wayland, don't take me the wrong way. I could care less is Miss Wie plays her 6 LPGA events per season. Until she earns the right to have her card that is what she deserves to play.

What bothers me is when she is handed exemptions into PGA events, mainly for ticket sales for the sponsor. What bothers me is she was giving a spot in an elite LPGA field. A card carrying member who finished high enough on the Money List to be in this event was forced out. Julie Inkster was booted out to make way for Miss Wie.

Tell me, is that right? Then on top of that, she steals Julie's caddie, without asking Julie. You just do not do that in Pro Golf. :rolleyes:

I am not trying to wish her demise. On the contrary. The LPGA needs rising young stars to help push it further up the success ladder. However when teens are handed a free ride it just does not sit right with me. I guess I am old fashioned, but both my daughters have gone to college and paid for their education. My youngest daughter pays for her car lease, insurance and education while working part time. Now you tell me who is going to be the better person when they reach the age of 30? Someone who worked hard to be successful or someone who was handed everything they own?

Paula Creamer, Morgan Pressel, and many other young LPGA members "EARNED" their cards. Is is so wrong that I feel Michell Wie should have to do the same thing?

Oh by the way, I talked to a guy on the range at my course this morning. I barely know this guy, and his first comment to me after we said Hello was "What do you think about this farce Michelle Wie pulled yesterday?" So there is another golfer who thinks along my lines. Then I teed it up with two ladies, and they both had comments, negative ones about Michelle Wie.

So I am not the only one out here who feels she is scamming the world of golf. If you do not agree, go read this thread. (http://forum.golfresource.net/showthread.php?p=184999#post184999)

[hogannut]

[quote=wayland]As dishonourable this action is (and I agree it is), I'm willing to wager that the majority of people in this thread would do the same thing. Say you were out golfing with the wife (or whomever) and you made some stupid (yes because it's a stupid rule) wager that if you couldn't break 90, that you would NEVER play again for an entire calendar year. So you go out and have the worst round of your life and by the middle of the back nine you realize that you made this wager and you're very much in danger of not being able to play again for a year. What do you do? If that were me? I'd be walking off the course in a heartbeat and not submitting a scorecard. Is it the honourable thing to do? No sir it isn't. But if I'm having a bad day and some rule/wager is going to prohibit me from playing, I'm going to circumvent that rule just as Michelle did.

Now, which of you fine gents are going to step up claim that you wouldn't do the same thing?


Let me be the first fine gent to step up and say I would not do that. First off, I would not make a stupid wager like that :D Second, I would stand back, take a deep breath and bare down for the rest of the round. I have been +6 after 6 holes and walked off 18 at +6.
It takes mental fortitude to be able to do this. It does not all come down to talent or a great swing.

Case in point. Charley Hoffman in the first round of the Memorial. +6 after 10 holes and the man finished with 5 straight birdies and birdied 18 to get back to even. All in the presence of the #1 Player In The World. So he was contending with huge galleries. He sucked it up and finished strong.

Wayland, don't take me the wrong way. I could care less is Miss Wie plays her 6 LPGA events per season. Until she earns the right to have her card that is what she deserves to play.

What bothers me is when she is handed exemptions into PGA events, mainly for ticket sales for the sponsor. What bothers me is she was giving a spot in an elite LPGA field. A card carrying member who finished high enough on the Money List to be in this event was forced out. Julie Inkster was booted out to make way for Miss Wie.

Tell me, is that right? Then on top of that, she steals Julie's caddie, without asking Julie. You just do not do that in Pro Golf. :rolleyes:

I am not trying to wish her demise. On the contrary. The LPGA needs rising young stars to help push it further up the success ladder. However when teens are handed a free ride it just does not sit right with me. I guess I am old fashioned, but both my daughters have gone to college and paid for their education. My youngest daughter pays for her car lease, insurance and education while working part time. Now you tell me who is going to be the better person when they reach the age of 30? Someone who worked hard to be successful or someone who was handed everything they own?

Paula Creamer, Morgan Pressel, and many other young LPGA members "EARNED" their cards. Is is so wrong that I feel Michell Wie should have to do the same thing?

Oh by the way, I talked to a guy on the range at my course this morning. I barely know this guy, and his first comment to me after we said Hello was "What do you think about this farce Michelle Wie pulled yesterday?" So there is another golfer who thinks along my lines. Then I teed it up with two ladies, and they both had comments, negative ones about Michelle Wie.

So I am not the only one out here who feels she is scamming the world of golf. If you do not agree, go read this thread. (http://forum.golfresource.net/showthread.php?p=184999#post184999)



So what you are saying GOlfbum is if you were on the 16th hole with a borderline injury you wouldn't use the rules to your advantage and WD yourself so you could play in another event later in the year?:confused:

As far as WD'ing on the 16th hole I agree with you I don't think she all of a sudden could no longer play. That is farily obvious.....but she used the rules to her advantage....thats' smart!

Let's try this example. You hit a drive and are in the rough. You walk up and realize you were "fortunate" as your ball is lying against a water sprinkler so you are entitled to relief of 2 clubs no closer to the hole. You take out your longest club (driver) and if you move 2 clubs no closer to the hole you realize you will be dropping your ball in the fairway with a perfect lie. Are you NOT going to move the ball because it would give you an unfair advantage....or are you going to use the rules to your advantage and hit your 2nd shot from the fairway instead of 3" rough?

I agree with you 100% about Morgan, Paula and the rest of the late teens, 20 something's, and their records as pro's indicate they did the right thing. I still think MW can make a big impact and maybe like Sydney Crosby she needs to make some "mistakes" before getting her rewards.

I watched yesterday and was impressed with Hoffman. I really wanted him to make the 6th bird. It's players like this that seem less intimadated by Mr Woods.

[wayland]

Let me be the first fine gent to step up and say I would not do that. First off, I would not make a stupid wager like that :D Second, I would stand back, take a deep breath and bare down for the rest of the round. I have been +6 after 6 holes and walked off 18 at +6.


Dear sir, you dodged my question.

Michelle didn't make the rules so it doesn't matter if you would've willingly made such a wager or not. Are you still willing to complete your round under the situation I described?

I understand what bugs you about the exemptions. So why aren't you directing your anger at the PGA office or the sponsors who are handing out the exemptions? Do you think Michelle's camp is actively soliciting these? If so, provide proof. If I were her and I were given a free pass, I'd take it also. Who wouldn't?

[MizunoBoy]

[quote=wayland]As dishonourable this action is (and I agree it is), I'm willing to wager that the majority of people in this thread would do the same thing. Say you were out golfing with the wife (or whomever) and you made some stupid (yes because it's a stupid rule) wager that if you couldn't break 90, that you would NEVER play again for an entire calendar year. So you go out and have the worst round of your life and by the middle of the back nine you realize that you made this wager and you're very much in danger of not being able to play again for a year. What do you do? If that were me? I'd be walking off the course in a heartbeat and not submitting a scorecard. Is it the honourable thing to do? No sir it isn't. But if I'm having a bad day and some rule/wager is going to prohibit me from playing, I'm going to circumvent that rule just as Michelle did.

Now, which of you fine gents are going to step up claim that you wouldn't do the same thing?


Let me be the first fine gent to step up and say I would not do that. First off, I would not make a stupid wager like that :D Second, I would stand back, take a deep breath and bare down for the rest of the round. I have been +6 after 6 holes and walked off 18 at +6.
It takes mental fortitude to be able to do this. It does not all come down to talent or a great swing.

Case in point. Charley Hoffman in the first round of the Memorial. +6 after 10 holes and the man finished with 5 straight birdies and birdied 18 to get back to even. All in the presence of the #1 Player In The World. So he was contending with huge galleries. He sucked it up and finished strong.

Wayland, don't take me the wrong way. I could care less is Miss Wie plays her 6 LPGA events per season. Until she earns the right to have her card that is what she deserves to play.

What bothers me is when she is handed exemptions into PGA events, mainly for ticket sales for the sponsor. What bothers me is she was giving a spot in an elite LPGA field. A card carrying member who finished high enough on the Money List to be in this event was forced out. Julie Inkster was booted out to make way for Miss Wie.

Tell me, is that right? Then on top of that, she steals Julie's caddie, without asking Julie. You just do not do that in Pro Golf. :rolleyes:

I am not trying to wish her demise. On the contrary. The LPGA needs rising young stars to help push it further up the success ladder. However when teens are handed a free ride it just does not sit right with me. I guess I am old fashioned, but both my daughters have gone to college and paid for their education. My youngest daughter pays for her car lease, insurance and education while working part time. Now you tell me who is going to be the better person when they reach the age of 30? Someone who worked hard to be successful or someone who was handed everything they own?

Paula Creamer, Morgan Pressel, and many other young LPGA members "EARNED" their cards. Is is so wrong that I feel Michell Wie should have to do the same thing?

Oh by the way, I talked to a guy on the range at my course this morning. I barely know this guy, and his first comment to me after we said Hello was "What do you think about this farce Michelle Wie pulled yesterday?" So there is another golfer who thinks along my lines. Then I teed it up with two ladies, and they both had comments, negative ones about Michelle Wie.

So I am not the only one out here who feels she is scamming the world of golf. If you do not agree, go read this thread. (http://forum.golfresource.net/showthread.php?p=184999#post184999)



Wow, nice post. i think wie is spoiled. Rmember when a vetern LPGA player called her out a few years ago for poor ettiquite and then a snobby spoiled brat attitude? I hope she gets so good that she can compete on th emens tour but right now it looks like she will have trouble being the number one womens player.

My best round ever was 7 over after 5 holes and shooting 75 on a 6700 135 slope course. It is by fay not my best score but stopped the bleeding and got it done. Wish i could do that with all aspects of life.

I don't blame her in any way....she is after all only 17 and isn't likely in charge of her life....she has been and is being very poorly handled. It has scarred her and likely will for a long time.

Find it all kinda sad really.... :(

So true. It is sad. must keep that in consideration when commenting on her performance and behavior.

I was speculating that her "wrist injury" was a convenient excuse to avoid 88. It might be a little unfair for us to jump to this conclusion, since it could be a legitimate injury. But I just have this nagging feeling that it could well be a smokescreen. I hope I'm wrong.


Of course, we may be missing the real truth here.

Michelle Wie pulls out with a wrist injury ...

Phil Mickelson pulls out with a wrist injury ...

Phil and Michelle have a date this afternoon. They just messed up and used the same excuse.

She's a minor, Phil. Come on.



I agree that she's been poorly handled by greedy adults. I think there needs to come a time, though, when I can stop allowing her the "age" excuse. I'm not sure that that time's come yet ... but it could be approaching.

I've resigned myself to the same opinion others have expressed: she's got the talent, but may not have the drive to be anything other than a novelty act.

Other young players are passing her by, and today just feels like another sad episode in the decline and demise of a promising player's career

that sounds right to me.

...and if you were her manager (assuming you new the 88 rule), you would of told her to do the same thing.

Question though, does such a rule exist in the PGA tour?

Very true. So would I. Not sure if we would have folowed the same path that has brought her to this point though.

For anyone who has a potential up and coming child is sports, music, whatever compare what has happened to MW, and how Tiger was managed by his parents. Obviously the road Tiger was put was the correct one.

IMO....although it is true that MW's management group has damaged her, I think that is only part of the situation. THe other part is MW herself, and I don't think she has the mental ability to compete at the very elite level. She simply is a good ball striker, and good ball strikers alone don't make it in professional sports. ALL pro golfers are good ball strikers, so except for being able to hit a bit further than those other women pro's she is now at "par" with the fields she plays in.

Her amatuer record if you really look at is OK, but not earth shattering. Morgan Pressel's amatuer record is as good as MW's, and now because Morgan has been groomed properly, and the fact she IS a competitor she is starting to get her game to the next level.

When you look at the greats in the game both present and past they all enjoyed COMPETITNG with their peers. Hogan battled against Snead and Nelson, Nicklaus against Palmer, Player and later Watson, and unfortunately we are waiting for someone to step it up a bit regarding giving Tiger a bit more to be concerned with. THe point is when you watch these guys in interviews, particularily the older ones who are now retired and can reflect on their careers, they all talk about the thrill of competiting.

I don't think MW has that in her. I think she is an over coached prodigy who because of her physical stature can hit a golf ball a long way. We are now into year 5 of seeing MW on tv and to date except for a few occasions here and there her pattern is always play bad when she needs to play well. This is an indication she does not have the competitive spirit. It's not a knock on her, as if this is true it is better for her to know now than later.

MW should compete in long drive contests, go to college and play some golf and live her life that is now financially set as long as she doesn't spend $ like an idiot. I don't think she will ever develop into what she was made out to be 5 years ago.

Eric Lindros is another example. I can't remember a more disapointing NHL career from a player who dominated in junior. Again bad management was a part of Eric's inabilities along with some timely injuries.

all makes very good sense. i was close to Liindros back then and it was embarrassing. he also got his bum handed to him by Elvis Stiojko at a club once. I was there to witness the aftermath.

[MizunoBoy]

golfbum,

man you and Harry really have it in for the girl. I respect your thoughts on this but you know what? not every one makes the correct decisions in life all the time. and as a bystander who is watching her with a microscope, it's easy to pick her career apart as you have/are doing. either way, it's her life...why does it bother you that much?

In all fairness, if we were to analyze your life choices...is there nothing you've done that can be flamed about in hindsight? I don't think anyone can say no to that question so why bother? It's easy for us to pick out the ones that went bad as you have (Wie, Lindros)...but many other youths have made similar choices and have had it pay off such as Lebron, McGrady, Kobe to name a few. If Michelle won a lpga tour event and made a cut in a real men's event, you wouldn't be reaming her out. So my point is, it's easy to look at one's failures and question their decisions but it's a waste of breath IMO because no one is perfect and time is too precious to dwell on the failures in life...instead we should look at the positives. She has more than $20M in the bank...do you think no one here would want to be in her shoes?

She continues to make the same mistakes and it is only getting worse nt better. there are some problems that need to be addressed. Criticsm is what you get when you are a public figure and make millions of dollars whether it's Bill gates or Wie or Lindros or Oprah Winfrey. Its how they make there money. Through the media. Media communicates with fans etc...

Newspapers would be 3 pages in total and the internet wouldn't be half of what it is without. It is part of the job. IMHO

Dear sir, you dodged my question.

Michelle didn't make the rules so it doesn't matter if you would've willingly made such a wager or not. Are you still willing to complete your round under the situation I described?

I understand what bugs you about the exemptions. So why aren't you directing your anger at the PGA office or the sponsors who are handing out the exemptions? Do you think Michelle's camp is actively soliciting these? If so, provide proof. If I were her and I were given a free pass, I'd take it also. Who wouldn't?

[/font]

Good points. As a counter, would her group be looking for exemptions if they were not offered? I would guess yes. And if sponsors didn't want her anymore then she would be off the radar and these threads would die out so its kinda of a deadpoint IMHO.

I guess golfers aren't really the same as sports franchises. If you are a fan and pay money to attend games etc.. Do you deserve to criticise? Currently, the society we live in says yes.

In case you haven't heard or noticed wayland, her public opinion has nose dived over the past year and this is pretty consistent with various forums around the globe. Its not the girl, its the team and the approach taken. Few like the FREE rides [within the rules to accept] but its almost expected by the Wie's. If she qualified on her own her admirers would jump 100 fold. I would guess if you were a fly on the wall inside the LPGA locker room that many ladies would be quite thrilled really, and they are not the ones who are afraid of a little serious competition ... but they earned their spot the hard way, many with no money of their own.

This seems to make the most sense to me. I doubt she is well liked in th elocker room.

Does anyone remember way back her run in with a vetern pro she was playing with? It was one of the sisters that palyed for years on the LPGA.

You're totally right Wayland. I've noticed that a few posters seem to be obsessed about Michelle Wie and enjoy laughing at her misfortunes. This week, they may have something, with the questionable injury, but still,it's the same people posting over and over again. They seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the girl . . .

The same goes for Phil haters. NO new threads about him winning the TPC (where was Tiger again??), but he pulls out of a tournament, and he's the butt of jokes again.

Fortunately, you don't see me posting a thread every time Tiger doesn't win a tournament (BTW, his little spazzes today were really poor), but perhaps their mothers never told them about the saying, "If you've got nothing good to say . . ."

tigers spazzes are quite funny but I find myself doing th esame thing lately. wonder what that is teaching the kids coming up?

As dishonourable this action is (and I agree it is), I'm willing to wager that the majority of people in this thread would do the same thing. Say you were out golfing with the wife (or whomever) and you made some stupid (yes because it's a stupid rule) wager that if you couldn't break 90, that you would NEVER play again for an entire calendar year. So you go out and have the worst round of your life and by the middle of the back nine you realize that you made this wager and you're very much in danger of not being able to play again for a year. What do you do? If that were me? I'd be walking off the course in a heartbeat and not submitting a scorecard. Is it the honourable thing to do? No sir it isn't. But if I'm having a bad day and some rule/wager is going to prohibit me from playing, I'm going to circumvent that rule just as Michelle did.

Now, which of you fine gents are going to step up claim that you wouldn't do the same thing?




Sure this is a golf forum. My point is, you and a few others sound like a broken record when it comes to anything regarding Michelle Wie. I had high hopes for her when she came on the scene but was quickly disappointed that she wasn't backing up the hype with an actual game. *shrug* So what, move on. How many other members of the LPGA/PGA tours are there? They are all "Professional Golfers", how many threads do you start about them? See my point? You guys are obsessing.

You seem pissed that she's using the guise of an injury to pull out when in all likelihood it's the 88 rule. So what? Do you think any professional is going to go in front of a camera and admit it? I'm not doubting it for a second.

As professional as they are, they are still human beings. Do you think no sports team has thrown in the towel when they are down by a large score?

Defending her constantly and sometimes not recognizimg some serious flaws is any different? the broken record you speak seems to be what people want to hear and less of your constant defense of someone who is getting harder and harder to defend.

the sponsor's exemption argument is a red herrring for Wie bashers. Nobody's outraged that a spot went to a girl with a heart condition who can't break 80 instead of a Josephine nobody trying to dig a game out of the dirt. Sponsor's exemptions have no effect on the struggling grinders out there. That's what monday qualifiers are for.

Besides, that other article posted implies that the LPGA had a hand in advising Wie's team that THEIR cash cow was in danger of sitting on the shelf for the rest of the season.

This is probably very true. Good post!

[wayland]

Defending her constantly and sometimes not recognizimg some serious flaws is any different? the broken record you speak seems to be what people want to hear and less of your constant defense of someone who is getting harder and harder to defend.


Do you actually see me constantly in those threads defending her?

I question whether I'm even defending her here. All I am asking is all of you use an open mind and ask yourselves if you wouldn't do the same thing in her shoes. I haven't gotten one straight response to my question saying anyone wouldn't yet. What does that tell you?

[MizunoBoy]

Do you actually see me constantly in those threads defending her?

I question whether I'm even defending her here. All I am asking is all of you use an open mind and ask yourselves if you wouldn't do the same thing in her shoes. I haven't gotten one straight response to my question saying anyone wouldn't yet. What does that tell you?

Sorry, i did respond but probably got lost in the shuffle. If I was her manager I would have done the exact same thing or risk getting fired. As a player, I may not as I am stubborn and to proud and would be left waiting on the sidelines for a year.

.

[TourIQ]

I am not trying to wish her demise. On the contrary. The LPGA needs rising young stars to help push it further up the success ladder.
Hi Golfbum

MacKinzie Kline had the guts to finish her round enroute to an '89'.

Teen with heart defect enjoys brief time on LPGA Tour
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/2007-06-01-290621431_x.htm?loc=interstitialskip

[Louie]

I think MW needs to step up or step off.

[quote=TourIQ]Hi Golfbum

MacKinzie Kline had the guts to finish her round enroute to an '89'.


Sounds to me Harry, Miss Kline has alot of class.

[TourIQ]

Sounds to me Harry, Miss Kline has alot of class.
Hi Mike
It was nice of Annika to give her an exemption :D
A real feel good story. Her thrill of a lifetime.

[Golfbum]

I think MW needs to step up or step off.

[quote=TourIQ]Hi Golfbum

MacKinzie Kline had the guts to finish her round enroute to an '89'.


Sounds to me Harry, Miss Kline has alot of class.


Well at least you and I agree on this subject:rofl:

[Louie]

[quote=Louie]I think MW needs to step up or step off.


Well at least you and I agree on this subject:rofl:


YA HAHA

[Bellyhungry]

Hi Mike
It was nice of Annika to give her an exemption :D
A real feel good story. Her thrill of a lifetime.

Don't forget, Annika also gave Wie an exemption....

[hogannut]

[quote=Golfbum]

Wow, nice post. i think wie is spoiled. Rmember when a vetern LPGA player called her out a few years ago for poor ettiquite and then a snobby spoiled brat attitude? I hope she gets so good that she can compete on th emens tour but right now it looks like she will have trouble being the number one womens player.

My best round ever was 7 over after 5 holes and shooting 75 on a 6700 135 slope course. It is by fay not my best score but stopped the bleeding and got it done. Wish i could do that with all aspects of life.



So true. It is sad. must keep that in consideration when commenting on her performance and behavior.



that sounds right to me.



Very true. So would I. Not sure if we would have folowed the same path that has brought her to this point though.



all makes very good sense. i was close to Liindros back then and it was embarrassing. he also got his bum handed to him by Elvis Stiojko at a club once. I was there to witness the aftermath.

ANyone in the right mind would not want to test Elvis Stoyko. He is a black belt along with being incredibly strong.

[MP33]

Lots of opinions on MW. Three points which pop up for me.

1) The notion that she was handed all her exemptions and money without earning it is non-sense. While she has not done it the traditional route of earning a card, this girl has spent most of her life harnessing raw golfing talent to a point where people from around the world have interest in watching her play. Maybe not so much now but at one point, advertisers were willing to pay her 20 million a year to do nothing but play exhibitions on various tours with their brand plastered all over her clothing. If this can just be handed to someone without talent or doing anything, sign me up because I definately would play golf for a living for 20million per annum.
Let's also keep in mind that "Pro" golf/sports isn't always about who is the best player, it's often about what kind/size of audience you can attract to generate $$ for your team or sponsors. There is probably no better example of this than pro Boxing.

2) The argument that she should have went to college to play NCAA golf instead of pursuing a "pro sports" career is often too one sided. If you look at the annual NHL draft, there are many many guys who bypass NCAA scholarships to play in the CHL (some at 15) and sign pro deals at 18. The majority of these guys never make it and end up playing in scrap leagues in the southern US or in Europe somewhere for very little money. You rarely hear what a mistake it was for these guys to bypass college or what a bad choice it was for many of them to enter the draft and sign pro deals. Maybe it's because this is Canada and hockey players are so revered. The big difference to me between what MW did and what some of these CHL draft busts have done (I wonder what Pat Fallon or Daniel Dore are doing now?) is she got paid a lot iof $$ and they didn't. If we are talking "Pro" sports, isn't one of the major objectives for any athelete to make as money as possible before their careers are over? Not a popular thing to say amongst fans but as a close friend of a pro athelete, I can assure you that $$ is top of mind for all of them. Some are just better at hiding it than others.

3) Let's also keep in mind that this girl is attending one of the finest colleges in the US. It is an accomplishment in itself for any kid to get into Stanford let alone one that spends the majority of her time developing a tremendous golf game on top of her studies. My daughter is only 3 but if she came to me 15 years from now to say she got into Stanford, the last thing I would think is that she was any kind of failure.

[hogannut]

Lots of opinions on MW. Three points which pop up for me.

1) The notion that she was handed all her exemptions and money without earning it is non-sense. While she has not done it the traditional route of earning a card, this girl has spent most of her life harnessing raw golfing talent to a point where people from around the world have interest in watching her play. Maybe not so much now but at one point, advertisers were willing to pay her 20 million a year to do nothing but play exhibitions on various tours with their brand plastered all over her clothing. If this can just be handed to someone without talent or doing anything, sign me up because I definately would play golf for a living for 20million per annum.
Let's also keep in mind that "Pro" golf/sports isn't always about who is the best player, it's often about what kind/size of audience you can attract to generate $$ for your team or sponsors. There is probably no better example of this than pro Boxing.

2) The argument that she should have went to college to play NCAA golf instead of pursuing a "pro sports" career is often too one sided. If you look at the annual NHL draft, there are many many guys who bypass NCAA scholarships to play in the CHL (some at 15) and sign pro deals at 18. The majority of these guys never make it and end up playing in scrap leagues in the southern US or in Europe somewhere for very little money. You rarely hear what a mistake it was for these guys to bypass college or what a bad choice it was for many of them to enter the draft and sign pro deals. Maybe it's because this is Canada and hockey players are so revered. The big difference to me between what MW did and what some of these CHL draft busts have done (I wonder what Pat Fallon or Daniel Dore are doing now?) is she got paid a lot iof $$ and they didn't. If we are talking "Pro" sports, isn't one of the major objectives for any athelete to make as money as possible before their careers are over? Not a popular thing to say amongst fans but as a close friend of a pro athelete, I can assure you that $$ is top of mind for all of them. Some are just better at hiding it than others.

3) Let's also keep in mind that this girl is attending one of the finest colleges in the US. It is an accomplishment in itself for any kid to get into Stanford let alone one that spends the majority of her time developing a tremendous golf game on top of her studies. My daughter is only 3 but if she came to me 15 years from now to say she got into Stanford, the last thing I would think is that she was any kind of failure.

Counter point to #1).....ALL aspiring pro golfers have spent the majority of their youth developing their game, so what makes MW so special? What makes her "special" is she can hit it a long way off the tee, and that USED to generate a lot of interest with golf fans. You are right about the $ concerning pro sports. All that is business and marketing, it has NOTHING to with the GAME of golf. I would also that EVERYONE would like $20 million for not doing much...who wouldn't it. It doesn't mean MW earned it and that is EXACTLY what bothers people.

Counter point #2) Comparing other sports to golf is not really valid because all other sports have a 10-15 year time span and essentially by the time you are in your late 30's your career is over, so yes maybe you do have to sacrifice an education to persue a pro sports career. With golf however by the time the other sports are retiring you are just entering your PRIME, so there is no real advantage of not going to college, particularily for someone who is as good a student as MW.

Counter point 3) I agree 100% with you, but doesn't your #3 point contradict your #2 point? You say in point #2 sometimes you have to give up an education for the sport, and then say in point #3 how great Stanford is. So what is your actual position regarding MW going to college? Should she go, or should she play golf?

[northernhiro]

She's doing both, playing pro golf and going to college. She has no ncaa eligibility so she got into Stanford on her own merits. Best of both worlds, take the huge payoff now, still get a premium education. Only things she really needs to do are stop wasting her time on the PGA tour and ditch Leadbetter.

95% of LPGA members won't earn $20 million over their entire pro career including endorsements, I don't begrudge Wie taking the payoff when the iron was hot. So what if we never hear from her again? She'll have a huge nest egg, a degree from a prestigious institution, and a myriad of business contacts both in Korea and in the US so it's not like she'll be found in any soup kitchens. And if she wants, she can apply for reinstatement of amateur status and play in amateur events if she were to ever get the competition bug again.

[MP33]

Counter point to #1).....ALL aspiring pro golfers have spent the majority of their youth developing their game, so what makes MW so special? What makes her "special" is she can hit it a long way off the tee, and that USED to generate a lot of interest with golf fans. You are right about the $ concerning pro sports. All that is business and marketing, it has NOTHING to with the GAME of golf. I would also that EVERYONE would like $20 million for not doing much...who wouldn't it. It doesn't mean MW earned it and that is EXACTLY what bothers people.

Counter point #2) Comparing other sports to golf is not really valid because all other sports have a 10-15 year time span and essentially by the time you are in your late 30's your career is over, so yes maybe you do have to sacrifice an education to persue a pro sports career. With golf however by the time the other sports are retiring you are just entering your PRIME, so there is no real advantage of not going to college, particularily for someone who is as good a student as MW.

Counter point 3) I agree 100% with you, but doesn't your #3 point contradict your #2 point? You say in point #2 sometimes you have to give up an education for the sport, and then say in point #3 how great Stanford is. So what is your actual position regarding MW going to college? Should she go, or should she play golf?

Counter points:

1) Earned it? Earning money in Pro golf or any other sport is only partially related to how you perform on the field. As an example, how long has it been since John Daly was an elite golfer on the tour? I would say many years ago. But, how is it that he still generates so much sponsorship $$ (Those damn winn grip commericals!!) that he can afford his extravagant lifestyle?? Because fans like JD and enjoy watching him play. Does he deserve it??? There are other examples of this in pro sports. Mike Tyson in his later years (definately not the best fighter in the world at that time) is definately one that comes to mind. I think if you are in demand and people are willing to pay for it, than you deserve it.

2) You make a BIG assumption that golfers will only get better with time. A few names that will coutner your argument. Steve Scott, Tommy Tolles, Paul Stankowski, Ashley Chinner. All had (at a minimum) promising golf careers at one point but where are they now?? Shouldn't they be hitting their prime soon? Even former major winners can have their games go backwards upon reaching their prime. Where is Ian Baker Finch, David Duval, Larry Mize???? I think my analopy holds true as your future is equally uncertain in golf as it is in hockey or any other sport.

3) No contradiction. Point # 2 is a comment about her decision to turn pro and not play NCAA golf. The third point is purely about going to university and getting into a great school. Why is this different, many on this site have gone to university but have never played college golf.

[Golden Bear]

John Daly has won major championships. Hell, John Daly has won tournaments, major or otherwise. John Daly has been at the top of his sport. John Daly held a tour card for many years, and he earned that tour card.

Yes, he has earned his exemptions.

[northernhiro]

giving Daly exemptions has no root in merit, it's charity. It's like giving one to a girl with a heart condition and pipe dreams, only difference is, even though she'll never compete, at least she finishes.

[hogannut]

According to my info JD no longer has a valid PGA tour card, and he would have to go to Q school to regain his card. JD at least has SOME successes as a pro player, including majors. So he's making some $ based on his previous performances, and sucesses. To date....MW has ZERO accomplishments in terms of pro wins. So really not a fair comparison. Arnold Palmer hadn't won in around the same amount of time when he was selling Penzoil on TV in the 70's. Do you have/had a problem with Arnie doing that? If an athlete keeps on trying after they have passed there prime, I guess that is their choice, and yes, money at that point can be a big factor for the athlete to decide to continue or retire.

IF the golfer doesnt' develop within a given amount of time they no longer play as a pro, and get regular jobs and play locally, or for fun or whatever. MW is in the EXACT same boat the other players you mention, so what is your point? How many free rides did any of the above mentioned players receive?

Pro sports is a crap shoot at the best of times, and the ONLY way of knowing for sure is to try. My point about the age was most other sports you start young, and retire young, but golf you can play for decades, so there is time available for an education.

As for your 3rd point...I'm still confused. Do you think MW should or should not go to college, and if you think she should, do you think she should play golf?

I really don't get where you are trying to go here with your comments. Are you for or against MW, or are you neutural?


BTW...JD may be living in a trailer park soon, as his $ has run out. You may see him slugging it out on the Nationwide next year.

[MP33]

John Daly has won major championships. Hell, John Daly has won tournaments, major or otherwise. John Daly has been at the top of his sport. John Daly held a tour card for many years, and he earned that tour card.

Yes, he has earned his exemptions.

I was referring to sponsorship $$ from companies like Dunlop, Trim spa and Winn and not tournament exemptions. But, if you want to debate that, the motivation for giving exemptions by tournament sponsors is not that different than the motivation companies like Winn have in choosing pitch people. It's about brand recognition!! If you think for a minute that sponsors give out exemptions out of loyalty to past major winners or to who is "deserving" you are dreaming. It's all about making their tournament more appealing to the public to attract more viewers which means more sponsorship $$. This is "Pro" sports and making $$ is the name of the game. I can assure you the likes of Paul Lawrie or Mark Brooks (Both major winner) are not on the top of mind for organizers who have exemptions to grant these days regardless if fans feel they have earned it or not. I would even argue that a guy like Tommy "2 Gloves" who hasn't won anything but a game show would get precedent as he is much more news worthy these days than guys who won major tournaments a decade ago.

According to my info JD no longer has a valid PGA tour card, and he would have to go to Q school to regain his card. JD at least has SOME successes as a pro player, including majors. So he's making some $ based on his previous performances, and sucesses. To date....MW has ZERO accomplishments in terms of pro wins. So really not a fair comparison. Arnold Palmer hadn't won in around the same amount of time when he was selling Penzoil on TV in the 70's. Do you have/had a problem with Arnie doing that? If an athlete keeps on trying after they have passed there prime, I guess that is their choice, and yes, money at that point can be a big factor for the athlete to decide to continue or retire.

IF the golfer doesnt' develop within a given amount of time they no longer play as a pro, and get regular jobs and play locally, or for fun or whatever. MW is in the EXACT same boat the other players you mention, so what is your point? How many free rides did any of the above mentioned players receive?

Pro sports is a crap shoot at the best of times, and the ONLY way of knowing for sure is to try. My point about the age was most other sports you start young, and retire young, but golf you can play for decades, so there is time available for an education.

As for your 3rd point...I'm still confused. Do you think MW should or should not go to college, and if you think she should, do you think she should play golf?

I really don't get where you are trying to go here with your comments. Are you for or against MW, or are you neutural?


BTW...JD may be living in a trailer park soon, as his $ has run out. You may see him slugging it out on the Nationwide next year.

1) I have no problem with any pro athelete, current or former (this inlcludes Arnie), who make as much money as possible from endorsements, wages or whatever that is legal. The debate which was started was on whether MW is deserving or not. My point is simple, if someone is willing to pay you lots of money to play a game, than you deserve it.

2) You can play golf for decades but that is a lot different than being able to play and compete for decades. This was my point and the purpose of my examples.

3) My point here is really a counter to all those who feel MW and her handlers are making all these bad choices which will destroy her future. It's really not all that grim in my opinion. For regular people, getting into a top school at 17 is enough to be happy about. MW has achieved that and still has an incredible golfing career (whether if it's a touring pro, teaching pro, equipment executive, etc...) ahead of her, 20 million dollars and a lifetime of memories only a handfull of people will ever experience. Far too negative in my opinion.

[Golden Bear]

I was referring to sponsorship $$ from companies like Dunlop, Trim spa and Winn and not tournament exemptions. But, if you want to debate that, the motivation for giving exemptions by tournament sponsors is not that different than the motivation companies like Winn have in choosing pitch people. It's about brand recognition!! If you think for a minute that sponsors give out exemptions out of loyalty to past major winners or to who is "deserving" you are dreaming. It's all about making their tournament more appealing to the public to attract more viewers which means more sponsorship $$. This is "Pro" sports and making $$ is the name of the game. I can assure you the likes of Paul Lawrie or Mark Brooks (Both major winner) are not on the top of mind for organizers who have exemptions to grant these days regardless if fans feel they have earned it or not. I would even argue that a guy like Tommy "2 Gloves" who hasn't won anything but a game show would get precedent as he is much more news worthy these days than guys who won major tournaments a decade ago.So, what you're saying is that if John Daly had had the same amount of success as Michelle Wie, he would still be getting these exemptions and endorsement deals? I beg to differ. Daly wouldn't have become popular on personality alone ... he needed wins, too.

Note that in my previous post, I didn't once talk about what the sponsor's motive was for giving him an exemption or an endorsement deal. I was talking about whether he deserves those things. And he does. He's earned his fame and popularity due to his success on the golf course. Michelle Wie has earned nothing on the golf course, outside of some success as an amateur.

And the other mistake you're making is thinking that Michelle Wie is "popular". I guess there's some degree of popularity, but that's not why she gets exemptions into the John Deere tournament, and that's not why she has major sponsorship. Those things come as a result of her being a novelty act, not as a result of her tremendous popularity. Someone like Daly has an enduring popularity. Someone like Wie will fade into oblivion if she doesn't become a top player ... and at the moment, she's on the fast track to Suckville. And Nike will leave her behind.

[Bellyhungry]

Like Dirty Harry says, 'Deserve ain't got nuthin' to do with it'....

It is all about marketing and gate receipt.

So people who 'deserve' exemptions are not base on skills or track record, rather, it is about how much they can sell CURRENTLY.

Can we blame the sponsors and tournament organizers? Not unless they are making a mockery of the events or violate any child-labor law, or cross the line in term of social acceptance. Otherwise, who are you and I to tell the sponsors who they should give the exemptions to, how many tickets to sell and how much money they are allowed to make?

The sooner people realize this, the less they will be puzzled or surprised by the exemptions Wie receive.

By the same token, the sooner Wie stops being to put on a show, the sooner people will lose interest. And the sooner she will not receiving those exemptions.

Until then, the gong show continues.....

[Golden Bear]

By the same token, the sooner Wie stops being to put on a show, the sooner people will lose interest. And the sooner she will not receiving those exemptions.

Until then, the gong show continues.....

I believe that time is fast approaching. I don't think many people actually care anymore. The media will still cover her circus, because it's worked in the past. But they're soon going to find that people really don't give a damn whether a mediocre female is finishing last or second last at a men's event. And the tournament organizers are going to discover it's not doing a thing for their event. I expect this will be the last year of the shenanigans, not because Michelle will stop playing men's events (though her camp will say that's the reason) but because no one feels compelled to offer her exemptions anymore.

If I'm not mistaken, that's Jaye P. Morgan with a mallet in her hand and she's headed for the big gong. Maybe Gene-Gene the Dancing Machine will be up to taking