What Would You Shoot at Oakmont?

[reincarnated]

Under US Open conditions.

[dan_]

I picked 150+ because eleventy-billion wasn't an option.

[reincarnated]

I was curious to see how many people would fool themselves into thinking they could beat 150. haha.

[jjgowland]

1 shot on the course and I'll have a dozen in the bar.

[reincarnated]

I have heard PGA Tour guys (and have been told by a couple of my friends who are Clublink pros) that a scratch golfer would have a tough time breaking 100 at a US Open course under tour conditions. I believe it.

[The Troll]

I'd play it with an 8 iron, a wedge and a putter.

Would have to beat 151 plus doing dat.... :p

[Ben Hogans]

151+ from the ladies tess (no offence to the ladies either)

[Golden Bear]

Is this for the front 9 or back 9?

[xander.uk]

i have put myself at the 130-150 range rather than the 150+
mostly because of pride i think-because i am not sure i would break 150 on that course.

on the plus side i COULD reach all of the holes in regulation without any real problem.

the REALITY is that i wouldnt hit all the fairways ( i would think i could hit 50% as hitting fairways is a strong point in my game)

i doubt very much i would 3 putt many holes.

think it would be more 4 and 5+ putts on alot of them :D

i quite fancy a go at the par 3 playing its full length of 298yards but it is in between clubs for my current bag!

just out of reach with my 4 wood but i would send my driver through the green - on balance i would have to hit a cut drive or a stinger type 4 and try chase it up there on the firm fairways.

realistically i would hit my 4 wood and chip and 4 putts ( maybe 5+) for a 6/7 +

i just think the course was set up extremely unfair!

sure i want deep bunkers tough rough and not overly generous fairways BUT you also have to have greens that are receptive to a well struck short iron/wedge and with slopes like that ( IMO ) no more than 12 on the stimpmeter!

[mizuno_mp37]

I was curious to see how many people would fool themselves into thinking they could beat 150. haha.

I don't think I am fooling myself to say that I would shoot 91-100.

There is a difference between starting out and aiming for the best score you can (hitting driver, 3 woods off tees etc.) and deliberately setting out to break 100. I have no doubt that if I took my usual approach then I would end up in some fairly horrible places and start amassing the scores. :(

However, my 3 iron hybrid goes around 230 and pretty accurately, so that will get me off the tees - this isn't Bethpage Black with 275 yard carries over 6 inch rough!! Then I just play conservative irons and take what comes, I think that would get me under 100. :D

[xander.uk]

under a 100 ? you must putt using an ultra soft ostrich feather !

5 putts per hole is 90.

my putting has improved alot recently :shhh:

but you dont go round oakmont 2 putting greens under those conditions!

at least I DONT :p

[reincarnated]

The way I see it is I would probably average 3.5 putts a hole (wouldn't hit many GIR so I'd have closer chips to the green) and it would probably take me an average of 5.5 strokes to get on -- so a 162 for me -- and I think that would be a good score under those conditions.

[Big Shooter]

Doubtful WE would be allowed to use the "pro tees", but if we did, and the course was EXACTLY as THEY played it (especially with the Sunday set-up), I would think 110-120, that's what I shot at Whistling Straits!
...gotta remember, the PRESSURE is different for them too!!

[reincarnated]

I shot a 110 at Bethpage Black (about 15-18 strokes higher than I normally shoot at decent difficulty courses) and it was nowhere close to US Open conditions and we didn't play from the tips either.

[SoNgMaN]

bogey golf plus a few more, it would be more intimidating then anything get the first couple holes out of the way and ESR would kick in...:rofl:

[xander.uk]

in all honesty i wouldnt want to play that course anyway.

my nearest courses are royal liverpool and royal birkdale and they are just 2 of about 20 beautiful courses near me with lovely fast greens.

but they dont take liberties - you can actually use a putting stroke rather than just letting it roll off your ball marker :D

i dont have suicidal tendencies and i dont want to play a course i wont enjoy and if you guys think oakmont was tough u want to try a real links when the wind blows! complete hell - but fair ( if that makes any sense):)

and in liverpool - the wind always blows!!!
( except for when tiger won there :confused: ) that was the weirdist thing ever!
never seen a course near here so deathly still :confused:

[Grass Roots Tour]

This thread is entirely speculation and no one on this board is getting near a US open course in tournament condition .... with thier clubs.

Having said that, the first time I played Brantford G & CC (which Im well aware is NOT a US Open course but probably as close as we have here in On) was following the last group, the last day of the Ontario Mid Am.

The greens were ridiculously fast. On one occassion I played an inside the cup type break that broke 10 feet leaving me almost the same distance away putting for par. :eek: If memory serves ... that was the third green so I was scared to touch the ball on the greens after that.

I don't recall the rough being too terrible. Then again I hit a lot of fairways.

If you'd like a tiny taste of what US Open might be like you can always enter that tourny.

Or ... if having budding professionals on the links with you while you give tough conditions a go suites your style ...... Try the Canadian Open qualifier at Hidden Lake on for size. I havent, but I bet the course plays tough.

[mizuno_mp37]

in all honesty i wouldnt want to play that course anyway.

my nearest courses are royal liverpool and royal birkdale and they are just 2 of about 20 beautiful courses near me with lovely fast greens.


although in Toronto now I was born in Ormskirk (not too far from you) and grew up playing links golf at Hayling GC right down on the south coast in Hampshire. Played a few times in the Lytham Trophy and love playing all around there, I love links golf!!! :D

[xander.uk]

ormskirk to toronto is a hell of a long way to go for a round of golf :D

i havent played hayling but lytham is a beauty!

if you ever come back home for a visit also try hillside ( would be an open course but nowhere to put all the spectators ) next door to birkdale.

from these threads i dont think any1 objects to tough golf or wants to watch players shoot under 65 all day but i still say that the usga were just the wrong side of fair and need to remember that golf is a spectator sport that alot of people participate in.

and i dont think people enjoy watching pro's putt off the green or hack out the rough ALL THE TIME :) although it is occassionally nice to watch them card an 8 or 9 if they stuff up :D

i like to fantasize that 1 day i could sink that 10 footer on the 18th to win the open.
not
1 day i will face that 10 footer to win the open tickle at the hole- watch it run 25 feet past into the greenside jungle chip/hack out lag putt and face another 10 footer to stay in the top 10 on the leaderboard :)

[JEBS]

I think alot of you are selling yourselves short !! I do not think I would shoot in the 90's or even break 100.. but i do not think I would shoot 80 over par either. As long as you swallowed your pride and left the driver in the bag I think the mid handicapper would ne in the 110-120 range.

I have played a couple of courses just after or very close to a PGA tour date and have shot in the high 80's low 90's when they were shooting in the high 60's .. add that to the Oakmont scores (and another 10 for good measure) 85-65 + 20 Oakmont 80 + 20 +10 + 110 ;)

[The Troll]

I played Hamilton G&C about 6 weeks after the 2003 Cdn Open....they were just prepping the greens for winter and had triple cut them & double rolled them that morning. They were stupid fast....I had 29 putts that day.

Fast greens aren't as big an issue as you think....provided you are used to them.

Then again I'm very familiar :D with playing Brantford G&C (which as GRT mentioned are nasty) and I don't lose any sleep over the greens.

[Grass Roots Tour]

Fast greens aren't as big an issue as you think....provided you are used to them.

Then again I'm very familiar :D with playing Brantford G&C (which as GRT mentioned are nasty) and I don't lose any sleep over the greens.


Once your accustomed to fast greens they're quite nice to putt on. I found that I had trouble that first day getting my lag putts inside 6 feet. But I never missed a 6 footer either.
Fast greens means shorter stroke to go the same distance. Sorter stroke means more consistantly square at impact and more on-centre hits. All this should add up to better putting once you're accustomed to the speed.

[iyell4]

Under US Open conditions.

if you mean from the same set of tees as the pros played yesterday definitely over 151 for me ... seriously, on some of the holes, I wouldn't even be able to drive the ball to where the fairway begins, let alone be in a good 'scoring' position to reach the green in two.
... I don't even want to talk about my putting on those porcelain greens or how I'd fair on that 288 yard Par-3!:eek:

[mizuno_mp37]

ormskirk to toronto is a hell of a long way to go for a round of golf :D

i havent played hayling but lytham is a beauty!

if you ever come back home for a visit also try hillside ( would be an open course but nowhere to put all the spectators ) next door to birkdale.


I've played Hillside several times and it was actually the first place I ever saw Sergio Garcio play. He was a 13 or 14 year old playing for Spain against England in an Amateur International. I was caddying for a friend on the England team, sadly we never drew Garcia in any matches but watching on the range warm up was great. :D

[AnnikaFan]

i think i would DQ because I would not be able to record any score on each hole because I would end up picking up the ball mid hole because I was taking too many strokes or taking too long to find my balls..

that, or I ran out of balls half way through the course and would have no money left to run to the proshop to buy more balls because I already blew my lifesavings just to play a round at Oatmount (including travelling expense)

[Bellyhungry]

You are thinking about being able to find your balls if they are in the rough...

I think if you add the penalties for lost balls, 150 is too conservative.

The winning score was 5 over WITH ball spotters. Without spotters, it is not even up for debate

[el tigre]

For some reason a certain Robin Williams monologue pops into my mind...

Hey, don't get me wrong - I enjoy self-flagellation as much as the next guy...

BUT EIGHTEEN #*&$* TIMES??!!:eek:

[racmbs]

I feel confident enough in my game to say that I would shoot mid-low 80's. I've never played a course conditioned for a PGA event, but still feel if I stuck to my game it could be done....

[Samick]

I feel confident enough in my game to say that I would shoot mid-low 80's. I've never played a course conditioned for a PGA event, but still feel if I stuck to my game it could be done....

Mid to low 80's???

I dont know man....I mean, I dont think you or I would expect to make the cut like alot of the really good pros that didnt, and take a look at the scores they shot!

http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.aspx?page=10100&select=9622&select2=0&select3=99

I would say prob mid 90s would be more realistic, on a good day at that.

[xander.uk]

mid 80's - well if you honestly believe that then good luck because that would be brilliant.

i put 130-150 and on a good day i could do that ( normally would shoot mid/late 80's )but the strength in my game are long accurate tee shots so i feel i would have to scramble well that day.

i love to putt on fast pure greens but there's fast and there's OMG where is that going!!

i think i could shoot 115 on my best day but i would be 160+ on a bad day at that course!

the question was tour conditions so we would all have ball spotters so who knows i could get near 100 with a fair wind and a hot streak:D

but i dont think so :p

[racmbs]

Mid to low 80's???

I dont know man....I mean, I dont think you or I would expect to make the cut like alot of the really good pros that didnt, and take a look at the scores they shot!

http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.aspx?page=10100&select=9622&select2=0&select3=99

I would say prob mid 90s would be more realistic, on a good day at that.

I watched....and like I said, I've never played a course conditioned for a PGA Tour event, I'm merely going by how I play as a player feeling confident in my ability. I'm also not saying that I'd be able to do this in a 4 day stretch, but rather a once in a lifetime game.

Either way, who really knows.....I could shoot what I've stated I could do, or, I could shoot like a complete baboon and walk away with a score of 100 or more.

Same could be said for all of you and your predictions....

[Pingnut]

I think I could keep it under 120 if that was my goal.
No woods in the bag and 7 iron, 7 iron, PW to many of the par 4's. :eek:

If I was trying to hit driver - forget about it.

[reincarnated]

I feel confident enough in my game to say that I would shoot mid-low 80's. I've never played a course conditioned for a PGA event, but still feel if I stuck to my game it could be done....

Wow, I would bet on that. Most fringe guys on the PGA tour would struggle to shoot that.

[racmbs]

Wow, I would bet on that. Most fringe guys on the PGA tour would struggle to shoot that.

Read post 31 before commenting and sounding like a freakin' troll.....

[reincarnated]

I've played with you racmbs, you'd be hard pressed to break 160 :P

[racmbs]

I've played with you racmbs, you'd be hard pressed to break 160 :P

I remember every TGN'er I've come to play with, your screen name is not one of them.

I've played with you racmbs, you'd be hard pressed to break 160 :P

Never mind....just figured out who you are, MJ. :rofl:

I sure hope you can putt better than you can dribble a basketball.....:rofl:

[reincarnated]

Well let's just say the odds of me crossing over Kobe Bryant are about the same as you breaking 90 at the US Open. haha.

[wayland]

I played Hamilton G&C about 6 weeks after the 2003 Cdn Open....they were just prepping the greens for winter and had triple cut them & double rolled them that morning. They were stupid fast....I had 29 putts that day.

6 weeks after the Open has been played is basically an entirely different course. By then, they would have cut down the rough back to normal conditions or they'd have a protest on their hands by the members.

I've played Mandarin like 2 days before the CPGA qualifiers were held (years ago) and that rough was like baby fescue.

[slightdraw]

Hey Wayland,

I just read your post andI thought i'd blow your mind. I am an assistant super at a course in TO and my boss knows John Zimmers(the super at Oakmont),
they met at the US show years ago and see each other every year at the show and stay in touch. My boss has talked to him a couple times in the last month (mainly to see if he can get some frebees), and John told him they tone down the course for the Open. Normally they have the greens faster, the rough is the same, and they firm up the fairways more. The USGA didn't have to change a thing about the way the course plays for the Open, other than where the pins go, which apparently were quite easy compared to a normal day there where they just bury them. The membership at Oakmont want "tournament" conditions everyday, and they fully expect their guests to shoot 10-12 shots worse than they normally do. The greens are double cut and rolled daily, rough is fluffed up, and the pins are tucked daily. He said they can only get a reading on speed on 4 greens because the others are so sloped the ball rolls into the rough. John basically said that if the pros had to play the course the way it normally plays with his crew doing pins, the pros would have been embarassed.

[racmbs]

Hey Wayland,

I just read your post andI thought i'd blow your mind. I am an assistant super at a course in TO and my boss knows John Zimmers(the super at Oakmont),
they met at the US show years ago and see each other every year at the show and stay in touch. My boss has talked to him a couple times in the last month (mainly to see if he can get some frebees), and John told him they tone down the course for the Open. Normally they have the greens faster, the rough is the same, and they firm up the fairways more. The USGA didn't have to change a thing about the way the course plays for the Open, other than where the pins go, which apparently were quite easy compared to a normal day there where they just bury them. The membership at Oakmont want "tournament" conditions everyday, and they fully expect their guests to shoot 10-12 shots worse than they normally do. The greens are double cut and rolled daily, rough is fluffed up, and the pins are tucked daily. He said they can only get a reading on speed on 4 greens because the others are so sloped the ball rolls into the rough. John basically said that if the pros had to play the course the way it normally plays with his crew doing pins, the pros would have been embarassed.

It was refreshing to see those PGA boyz get chewed up as much as they did....made them look more human than they normally do. I honestly get bored sometimes, watching events when these guys are like -15/-20 for 4 rounds of play.....doesn't seem like the courses play AS tough as they are advertised to. Oakmont was a clear indication that although the PGA players are very good at what they do, is that all it takes is to put them on a course which makes them think %100 of the time they are playing. I can't believe how badly some of those guys got beaten up.....at least we know it CAN happen to them.

[wayland]

slightdraw,

Wow, that's really sick to think that they softened em up for the pro's. I wonder if they had the Oakmount club champion in the field, how he'd do.

I was talking about Hamilton GC&C when I was talking about returning the course to normal conditions. I'm sure anyone who watched the US Open knows that Oakmount is the way it is...all the time.

[owenmxz600]

Id guess id be around 120ish, If hitting driver well maybe 100-110!

[Grass Roots Tour]

I love that the membership likes their course that tough. It would make a great place to play out of. Imagine playing away at tournaments and how easy everything else would seem.

[Section ThirtyOne]

I figure around 110 for me, now that i'm hitting the ball well again.

Fast greens are great, and I find myself putting better on those rather than ones where you have to really put a lot of oomph behind it.

And speaking of fast greens, Oakmont doesn't got NOTHIN on Cherry Downs. :eek::rofl:

[The Troll]

Fast greens means shorter stroke to go the same distance. Sorter stroke means more consistantly square at impact and more on-centre hits. All this should add up to better putting once you're accustomed to the speed.

Spot on imo.

Read post 31 before commenting and sounding like a freakin' troll.....
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

6 weeks after the Open has been played is basically an entirely different course. By then, they would have cut down the rough back to normal conditions or they'd have a protest on their hands by the members.


I wasn't comparing course conditions, the rough at the open was sick....but the greens were faster the day I played. Was commenting on green speed only.

I feel confident enough in my game to say that I would shoot mid-low 80's. I've never played a course conditioned for a PGA event, but still feel if I stuck to my game it could be done....

I hate it when pop comes out my nose when I laugh.... :p

[ginrin]

Just wondering how myths are started by hearsay.The club championship was won by a better score than the US Open and no way on earth is he better than Tiger and people are saying they tone it down from normal play.They(the members) must all play the PGA tour or the real super super tour.:hush:

[landlord]

Just wondering how myths are started by hearsay.The club championship was won by a better score than the US Open and no way on earth is he better than Tiger and people are saying they tone it down from normal play.They(the members) must all play the PGA tour or the real super super tour.:hush:
One should never let the truth get in the way of a good story. :rolleyes:

[xander.uk]

it is true that oakmont usually does have greens like that ( even faster ) and the rough is that deep and penal

BUT

they narrowed the fairways for the open! and deepened the bunkers! at least according to the golf channel they did.

according to the open preview show i watched they narrowed the fairways by 10 yards in places ( which for a pro is a country mile ).

they say that golfers are bigger,stronger and better these days than ever before - they also say the ball is much better goes further and clubs hit it far longer and straighter.

so why is the oakmont course record set with persimmon woods and old balata balls?
why has nobody ever even got close to johnny millers course record?
despite that being voted round of the century i watched an interview with him on day 4 when he said it wasnt even that great a round!
and he did miss a few little putts.

so if they aint making the course tougher how crap are todays players?
why arent they shooting low 60's scores?
are tiger and phil and co just plain rubbish?

[Big Shooter]

I feel confident enough in my game to say that I would shoot mid-low 80's. I've never played a course conditioned for a PGA event, but still feel if I stuck to my game it could be done....

I've seen you play twice, once poorly (Blue Springs!), once very well (King Valley, except that ONE hole!) ;) ..."Oakmonster" would be a totally different BALLGAME!!

[landlord]

Re Johnny's 63, it was amazing at the time and widely talked about, but partly because of its good timing. Sunday at the U.S. Open seems a very good time to go low.

And a FWIW: green (and fairway) speed were fast for their time, but nothing like today. Those two factors account for an awful lot of dropped shots.

[iyell4]

Just wondering how myths are started by hearsay.The club championship was won by a better score than the US Open and no way on earth is he better than Tiger and people are saying they tone it down from normal play.They(the members) must all play the PGA tour or the real super super tour.:hush:

Angel posted a score of 285 to clinch the 107th U.S.Open.
"The club championship was won by a better score ..."

is this perhaps because the Club Championship is a 36-hole, medal-play format?

[racmbs]

Angel posted a score of 285 to clinch the 107th U.S.Open.
"The club championship was won by a better score ..."

is this perhaps because the Club Championship is a 36-hole, medal-play format?

Yes they are....and I doubt they even play from the same tee decks/distances as they do in events like the US Open. These guys have to keep it together for 4 rounds of play, which must wreack havoc on your mind.

It would be such an awesome experience, if they allowed members of the general public who carried a HDCP of at least 5 or less, to take part in a round of golf at a place such as Oakmont, right after an event like this had rolled through so one could experience what the PGA pro's do.

[ginrin]

No.The club championship is 3 rounds but use to be 4 and the winning score was +3.My point was simply the statement made by quite a few even on TV that the course was toned down for the US open.It's all hype but the fairways at the US open were very narrow and the rough thick so I can't imagine members breaking 80 consistently if the course is usually tougher.There are 196 members that are single digit handicap with the lowest being a +2 so his scores must be in the 70's all the time to keep that cap.The math does'nt add up but maybe I'm wrong but I believe Oakmont is rated at 76 and that does'nt even rank in the top ten courses for toughnest.I think the toughest course in Ont.to be The National and if they set that course up like the Open any amateur would have a hard time breaking 90.JMHO

[el tigre]

The competitive aspect of a tournament means that people tend to play more aggressive - and this course was set up to punish aggressive play that is anything less than perfect.

With good course management, a knowledgeable caddie, a forecaddie to guard against lost balls and a practice round to acclimatize to the course and the greens - I think most people could shoot within 15-20 strokes of their average score.

But that might take a drastic change in playing strategy for some, and if you're a short hitter or "directionally-challenged" you might have to forget about GIR's and play for bogey on some holes. That can be hard to accept.

[xander.uk]

:D
i thought oakmont was in the u.s.a ?

my mistake..........its obviously on fantasy island :D

as i said earlier i live right by 2 open courses and have seen and played them under tournament ( not open just regular tournament ) conditions.

for opens they narrow the fairways and feed the rough to make it stronger and thicker.the greens are so starved of water they are barely alive.then they are triple cut and it really is putting on a sheet of glass in warm weather.

yes putts roll truly online - but they just dont stop rolling :D
most of us ( including me ) wouldnt be able to lag putt to 20 feet at oakmont on those slopes.
sometimes the only way to stop it rolling is to hole it or roll off the green :D

as i said earlier i wouldnt 3 putt much it would be more 4 or 5 putts at least!

tee to green i could handle oakmont ok on a good day but forget the go round with a 7 iron idea because there is a 200 yard carry to some of those fairways :D
and some of them are so sloped that you mostly cant stay on the fairway you have to play from the 1st cut - which means less backspin and a possible flier!

i really do believe that on some of those holes we could rack up 15 + shots and if i did that i think my game would fall apart :)

[Ditty72]

I voted 101-110. I bet I could make a double bogey every hole, and shoot 106. Throw in the occasional bogey or if I'm really lucky, par, and throw in the occasional blow up hole, and I'd shoot somewhere around there I think. That would be fun to try though.

[hogannut]

My current GAO is 3.5. I would think somewhere between 90-95. I shot 86 at Pinehurst #2 under the "normal" conditions, but it was the tips.

[Grass Roots Tour]

My current GAO is 3.5. I would think somewhere between 90-95. I shot 86 at Pinehurst #2 under the "normal" conditions, but it was the tips.


And you probably only had on go at it.

Imagine if you could play as a member for 2 weeks :rolleyes:

I always thought if a miracle happened ...... and I could afford to go on holidays, I'd enjoy playing one PGA tour stop for 2 weeks as often as I wanted. Just to see what I could do after I got to know the course a bit.

I personally dont see the enjoyment of playing 15 different tracks on holidays because at no point will you know where to hit the ball. Thats gotta make scoring impossible.

[wayland]

And you probably only had on go at it.

Imagine if you could play as a member for 2 weeks :rolleyes:

I always thought if a miracle happened ...... and I could afford to go on holidays, I'd enjoy playing one PGA tour stop for 2 weeks as often as I wanted. Just to see what I could do after I got to know the course a bit.

I personally dont see the enjoyment of playing 15 different tracks on holidays because at no point will you know where to hit the ball. Thats gotta make scoring impossible.

If scoring is your intent, don't go on vacation to golf...just stay home and play your home course repeatedly. I go on vacation to experience things I can't at home. if it's a golf vacation, it's to see different courses and to enjoy the designs, etc....not to shoot a course record. Of course I'd like to play well, but playing well and scoring well are different. I'd forego the scoring via familiarity to see different courses whereever it is I happen to be vacationing. Assuming there are various courses that have good recommendations. If it's some hicktown trailer park with one good and the rest bad, I may not bother trying the poorly rated ones.

[Grass Roots Tour]

WAYLAND, how many PGA tour stops are there here in On that you can actually get on? IE. not private. Add to that, how do you make AG affordable playing it every day for 2 weeks? I'm assuming TPC courses have all inclusive specials.

The idea I had was to challenge myself on a well known tour stop like Harbor Town golf links. Maybe Sawgrass. Something I've seen on TV a hundred times and I know where tour players have been and hit what from there.

I wouldnt want to play a different course every day never knowing where to aim my shots. Then again, my ball actually goes where I aim it.

[xander.uk]

In britain you can play EVERY open course!
sure they aint cheap but they are worth every penny :)

[Louie]

I think I could shoot mid to high 80's if I had a few practice rounds first like the pros do. Maybe:D

[ginrin]

I thought Muirfield was impossible to get unless you're well connected:shhh: