I'd happily pay a premium for a 3.5 hour course....

[Anthony]

Why in Europe do they expect and are very upset if rounds are longer then 3.5-4 hours and here we are happy if it is 4.5 hours and need marshalls to "rush" slow play.

I'd love courses to institute a 4 hour time limit....:rolleyes:

I know if a course is empty it is easy to play in under 4, but the # of courses that can not keep the course moving is staggering....

[nearace]

played parkview yesterday in 4.25 hrs and waited a few holes not bad as is was pretty busy for a weekday:)

[DashRipRock]

Why in Europe do they expect and are very upset if rounds are longer then 3.5-4 hours and here we are happy if it is 4.5 hours and need marshalls to "rush" slow play.

I'd love courses to institute a 4 hour time limit....:rolleyes:

I know if a course is empty it is easy to play in under 4, but the # of courses that can not keep the course moving is staggering....

The premium wouild be joining a Private Course. There's lot's out there just pick one. :p

[pir2]

The real premium to get faster rounds is waking up earlier and getting early tee times :)

All IMHO.

[Grass Roots Tour]

I am NOT willing to pay a premium for faster play.

BUT a private club membership is often worth every penny in other ways.

[Bee2]

How about playing the right mileage? I was at Lionhead last week, the group ahead was a hole behind!!! Their average drives can't even reach the fairway, guess which tee they were playing from? GOLD!!!!I just don't understand:confused:

[Big Shooter]

The real premium to get faster rounds is waking up earlier and getting early tee times :)

All IMHO.

...or playing LATER, and paying LESS...even better, except for you 'whipped' lads!!! :D :p

[DashRipRock]

How about playing the right mileage? I was at Lionhead last week, the group ahead was a hole behind!!! Their average drives can't even reach the fairway, guess which tee they were playing from? GOLD!!!!I just don't understand:confused:


This is a good point. This year I finally convinced my 80 year old father to use the yellow tee box.(the older members call it the "Senior's Tee") I played yellows with him. He took honors twice which nevers happens!!

His drives are 100-150 yards and now he's on the fairway for his second shot. He shot 50 for 9 nine holes. He hasn't done that in two years. We played 9 in 1.75 hrs. He called and can hardly wait to go out again.

[Big Shooter]

How about playing the right mileage? I was at Lionhead last week, the group ahead was a hole behind!!! Their average drives can't even reach the fairway, guess which tee they were playing from? GOLD!!!!I just don't understand:confused:

They got my money, sometimes I like to play a "different" course, for the same price!!! ;)

[Anthony]

Fine I wanted to grab attention.... No I would not pay a premium, but the course would certainly get my patronage.

Question is, if a premium (high end course) said that they expected rounds to be done in under 4 hours, I'd be much more inclined to spend my money. As soon as I read a review that says rounds take over 5 hours, I am staying away.....

Now please move Osprey Valley 30 minutes closer....

[guitarman]

Fine I wanted to grab attention.... No I would not pay a premium, but the course would certainly get my patronage.

Question is, if a premium (high end course) said that they expected rounds to be done in under 4 hours, I'd be much more inclined to spend my money. As soon as I read a review that says rounds take over 5 hours, I am staying away.....

Now please move Osprey Valley 30 minutes closer....

If playing that quickly is your main priority then almost any golf course at the right time will do. First tee time or twilight tee times. Whats the problem?

[grunt]

Why in Europe do they expect and are very upset if rounds are longer then 3.5-4 hours and here we are happy if it is 4.5 hours and need marshalls to "rush" slow play.

I'd love courses to institute a 4 hour time limit....:rolleyes:

I know if a course is empty it is easy to play in under 4, but the # of courses that can not keep the course moving is staggering....

I've got to jump all over this - since it is one of my biggest peeves!

If you think Europe / US / Asia / etc etc etc ... provide better golf / food / selection of this that or something else / quality of life / etc / etc/ etc ... then go there - and stop complaining about what we have here!

That being said - go get a private membership somewhere - I'm sure that paying that premium will ensure you get a better pace. Or as someone else mentioned - get up and get that first tee time - this is what I do and I get in 18 in 3 - 3.5 hours!

If you want to play prime time golf, then deal with the wait times - it's not going to change.

-Tony

[MikeB]

Why in Europe do they expect and are very upset if rounds are longer then 3.5-4 hours and here we are happy if it is 4.5 hours and need marshalls to "rush" slow play.

I'd love courses to institute a 4 hour time limit....:rolleyes:

I know if a course is empty it is easy to play in under 4, but the # of courses that can not keep the course moving is staggering....

One of the reasons that play is slower here than in the UK is the prevalence of golf carts. Carts really slow things down as they weave and bob all over the course. Its even worse on those days when the course is wet as the carts have to stay on the paths and this makes things even slower.

[Anthony]

I've got to jump all over this - since it is one of my biggest peeves!

If you think Europe / US / Asia / etc etc etc ... provide better golf / food / selection of this that or something else / quality of life / etc / etc/ etc ... then go there - and stop complaining about what we have here!

That being said - go get a private membership somewhere - I'm sure that paying that premium will ensure you get a better pace. Or as someone else mentioned - get up and get that first tee time - this is what I do and I get in 18 in 3 - 3.5 hours!

If you want to play prime time golf, then deal with the wait times - it's not going to change.


-Tony

No I do not think it is better in Europe.... There was a post that said that if the round took over 3.5 hours, that players after 18 holes would let you know that it was unacceptable.

A wet course with carts (path only) and yes it will slow down play. I just like a course to keep moving and think 4 hours is plenty of time for 18 holes.....

If Marshall's watched you tee off on the first hole from the Golds and three balls are in the weed or grounded, call ahead and if they do it again on the second tee, move them up to the appropriate tee, if they are slow.

The difference in Europe I guess is that people don't view golf as a whole day event.... and neither do I.:D

[iyell4]

GOLD!!!!I just don't understand:confused:
Ummm..
"For the green fee I paid, I want to/have the right to play the WHOLE course."

or

"My ego will only let me play
1. from the 'tips'
2. xx-stiff shafts
3. driver with loft less than 8-degrees."

:)

[grunt]

If Marshall's watched you tee off on the first hole from the Golds and three balls are in the weed or grounded, call ahead and if they do it again on the second tee, move them up to the appropriate tee, if they are slow.

I don't have a problem with people playing from the back tees. Normally (and I say normally - I know there are exceptions) I find that the slow downs are often not off the tee-box - but out in the fairway and on the greens.

The difference in Europe I guess is that people don't view golf as a whole day event.... and neither do I.:D

Now, come on - golf is definitely an all day event - damn - I can't get 36 holes in in just the morning!!!

[trunckslammer1]

Even in private golf courses, slow play is an issue. Those who tee off early - before 8am usually get done in 4 hours or less. After that rounds can take up to 4.5 or even 5 hours. Coming from a private club, I can tell you that if you tee off after 9am or so, 4.5 hour rounds are quite common. The problem golfers are the low handicappers who play for a few dollars and it get slower on the back 9 where "presses can cost you $50.00 a hole. On our Men's Day - Thursday, rounds are 4.5 minimum. Another factor is the course is quite "tight" and OB and lost balls are common with money on the line and "protecting the field" for Men's night means a lot of reload.

[The Bun]

This is a good point. This year I finally convinced my 80 year old father to use the yellow tee box.(the older members call it the "Senior's Tee") I played yellows with him. He took honors twice which nevers happens!!

His drives are 100-150 yards and now he's on the fairway for his second shot. He shot 50 for 9 nine holes. He hasn't done that in two years. We played 9 in 1.75 hrs. He called and can hardly wait to go out again.

BRAVO......and I hope you're back out soon.

-Bun-

[The Troll]

Even in private golf courses, slow play is an issue.

The private course I played at last year a Sat/Sun morning round was 5 hours and men's game days pushed 6 hours.

The private course I play at this year Sat/Sun morning is 4-4 1/4 hours and men's game days play around 4 1/2 hours.

Difference is simply what the members will put up with....

[Grass Roots Tour]

Ummm..
"For the green fee I paid, I want to/have the right to play the WHOLE course."

or

"My ego will only let me play
1. from the 'tips'
2. xx-stiff shafts
3. driver with loft less than 8-degrees."

:)



Heck, I tee it up on the previous holes' green. That adds another 50 yards to most holes which I need for the challenge. Also theres no divots teeing it up there so its like you're the only one playing there. :rolleyes: :rofl:

[Bee2]

Ummm..
"For the green fee I paid, I want to/have the right to play the WHOLE course."

or

"My ego will only let me play
1. from the 'tips'
2. xx-stiff shafts
3. driver with loft less than 8-degrees."

:)

4. brand new pro v1s that I can skip across the pond. :rofl:

[the_har]

Why in Europe do they expect and are very upset if rounds are longer then 3.5-4 hours and here we are happy if it is 4.5 hours and need marshalls to "rush" slow play.

I'd love courses to institute a 4 hour time limit....:rolleyes:

I know if a course is empty it is easy to play in under 4, but the # of courses that can not keep the course moving is staggering....

I think the problem is that it is the hacks on the course who cause the slowdown. No offense to the hacks out there, but how many of them do you see playing ready golf??? Not to many

How many do you see waiting for the group ahead of them to clear the green when they are 300+ yards away???

How many hacks do you see hitting from the wrong tees????

But don't get me wrong. I'm sure other handicap levels are equally guilty of causing slowdowns.
Or it coud be that the spacings between tee times is inadequate to allow for a proper flow of people through 18 holes. That might have a huge impact on it. If a few groups searches for their lost ball- that can slow things down--then we get into a snowball effect.

Unless their is enforcement out there, there will be no resolvement of this issue.

The real premium to get faster rounds is waking up earlier and getting early tee times :)

All IMHO.

i find that to be oh so true. If you can get out to the course and be lucky enough to be the first to tee off, then it can be a good quick round (the serenity, being with one with the course, enjoying the serenity - oh the serenity).

[nearace]

This is a good point. This year I finally convinced my 80 year old father to use the yellow tee box.(the older members call it the "Senior's Tee") I played yellows with him. He took honors twice which nevers happens!!

His drives are 100-150 yards and now he's on the fairway for his second shot. He shot 50 for 9 nine holes. He hasn't done that in two years. We played 9 in 1.75 hrs. He called and can hardly wait to go out again.sounds like it was a great day ,glad to see him still getting out cherish these times:)

[golf-QXR]

I played Richmond Hill on Friday for the twilight rate. It was almost 6:00 when I teed off alone walking. Throughout my game I had to hold a few times for the group in front of me. When I putted out on 18 and looked at my watch it was 9:16. :eek:

Amazingly 3:16 can be done! By a hacker no less! ;)

[wayland]

I played Richmond Hill on Friday for the twilight rate. It was almost 6:00 when I teed off alone walking. Throughout my game I had to hold a few times for the group in front of me. When I putted out on 18 and looked at my watch it was 9:16. :eek:

Amazingly 3:16 can be done! By a hacker no less! ;)

yes, that's very normal for a twilight single.

[GAME]

lionhead yesterday 5.45 min...crazy....
they had 5 carts on one hole - 7 players on 1 friggin hole....ahead of us, we skipped by them on 17 and finished 18...crazy

[hogannut]

IMHO......the biggest factor of slow play is the golf cart. When you ride there is no urgency to keep up a pace, becuase you can just get into the cart and zoom down the fairway. So people tend to meandre around and waste time. Also, with carts the ability to consume alchol increases, as there is a cup holder to hold your beer. Alchol and golf do not mix, again, IMHO. I have ZERO problem with a few pints AFTER the game, but during the game it does nothing but slow the entire course down. Just time it one day, how long it takes to go to the beer cart, flirt with the beer girl, pay for the beer and get back into the cart and continue with the game, then multiply it by the number of times they buy beer during the game. THen the effects of the alchol distorts time (let's NOT turn this into a thread similar to joints on the course please).

When you walk you get into a "rythm" and a flow which actually speeds up play. 30 years ago a round of golf was expected to be played in the exact same amount of time they currently expect it in Europe, which is around 4 hours. I distinctly remember being told when I was 13 years and going to my first junior clinic that a game of golf should be played in 3 hours and 45 minutes.

What is the biggest change between now and 1978 when I was 13? The biggest change is the majority of the rounds now are being played in carts, NOT walking. The equipment is better, so if anything you are spending less time in the bush looking for balls, so what has caused the extra hour it takes to play? IMHO....it is the golf cart, and the ease of drinking that goes along with it.

For all you guys out there playing recreational hockey, how many of you drink on the bench during the game? I betcha NONE is the correct answer. IMHO....wait to you finish playing before drinking and unless you have a medical condition, play the game the way it was supposed to be played......WALK the course!

[guitarman]

IMHO......the biggest factor of slow play is the golf cart. When you ride there is no urgency to keep up a pace, becuase you can just get into the cart and zoom down the fairway. So people tend to meandre around and waste time. Also, with carts the ability to consume alchol increases, as there is a cup holder to hold your beer. Alchol and golf do not mix, again, IMHO. I have ZERO problem with a few pints AFTER the game, but during the game it does nothing but slow the entire course down. Just time it one day, how long it takes to go to the beer cart, flirt with the beer girl, pay for the beer and get back into the cart and continue with the game, then multiply it by the number of times they buy beer during the game. THen the effects of the alchol distorts time (let's NOT turn this into a thread similar to joints on the course please).

When you walk you get into a "rythm" and a flow which actually speeds up play. 30 years ago a round of golf was expected to be played in the exact same amount of time they currently expect it in Europe, which is around 4 hours. I distinctly remember being told when I was 13 years and going to my first junior clinic that a game of golf should be played in 3 hours and 45 minutes.

What is the biggest change between now and 1978 when I was 13? The biggest change is the majority of the rounds now are being played in carts, NOT walking. The equipment is better, so if anything you are spending less time in the bush looking for balls, so what has caused the extra hour it takes to play? IMHO....it is the golf cart, and the ease of drinking that goes along with it.

For all you guys out there playing recreational hockey, how many of you drink on the bench during the game? I betcha NONE is the correct answer. IMHO....wait to you finish playing before drinking and unless you have a medical condition, play the game the way it was supposed to be played......WALK the course!

My preference is to walk the course. But someday I will get old and have to ride. Too bad they didn't design carts for single riders. I think that would make it faster as you would drive directly to your ball as you do when your walking except that the cart would go faster than walking.
All in all carts do have their uses. For example I'm going out with a friend this Thursday, who is treating me to a round. He just had a stent put in after having a heart attack and wants to ride. We usually walk but he wants to take it easy, while at the same time get some excercise and fresh air.
Someone here said that it was the hackers that slow the game down but I disagree. I am a hacker. I score anywhere from 99 to 115. But my pace is fast. I have the same routine and don't take my time looking for lost balls. My maximum search time is about 30 seconds. I don't buy much of the cart girl. Maybe a lemonade a round but usually I just bring my own water. Even though I'm not a great ball striker I have been to the range enough to know what my distances are so making a decision of which club to use is quick. It hasn't happenned to me this year but I have a maximum stroke per hole rule. I don't spend time smacking the ball from one side of the green to the other, like I've seen some do. And speaking of hackers there is a friend of mine that I get out with about twice a year that has CP. he can barely walk so he rides, I will walk. He drives the ball about 60 to 80 yards off the tee. He has one of the fastest paces I've seen.
One thing that is always on my mind on the course is to be respectful of others when keeping pace. If everyone did this there would be faster play. I'm not that bothered by a slow round as I don't mind a 5 hour round if the course is crowded. I've learned to accept it. Also if I really don't want it to take that long I know where to go and when to play for the fast rounds. If people have a problem with slow play then they should learn what it is they need to do to avoid it. No sense complaining about something that is probably not going to change.

[mizuno_mp37]

No I do not think it is better in Europe.... There was a post that said that if the round took over 3.5 hours, that players after 18 holes would let you know that it was unacceptable.


I had been the originator of the post to which Anthony refers.

I grew up playing a private links course in the UK (http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/htmlsite/productdetails.asp?id=132) at which it was made clear that 3.5 hours for a round of golf should be perfectly achievable. We had a influx of "new" members as our existing membership aged, these new members primarily came from existing local public courses where 4.5 - 5 hour rounds were the norm. As the average round time started to increase the club invoked a new rule that was you brought your scorecard into the pro shop after your round and it was timestamped by the pro. The secretary would then review the elapsed time for peoples rounds and persistent "slow" round players would have their names listed on the clubhouse notice board. Believe me, you did not want to be on that board. :p

I do not understand why it takes some people soooooo long to play golf. Examine your shot as you approach your ball, look at the wind etc. ahead of time, be ready to play when it is your turn, after you have it the ball pick up your bag and move on - do NOT spend 2 minutes analysing why you have just carved another PRO V1 30 yards right followed by another 12 swings to perfect what you were trying to do.................:rofl:

[hogannut]

They have single carts now I have seen them. QUite cool actually. They look very similar to the medical power strollers you see people in, but have a section for golf clubs. So there ya go!

Also, I have NO problem with carts for people who actually need them. When I play with my 80 year old father who has a heart condition, we ride. If carts ONLY went out for medical issues, the rounds would go faster, as those medical people aren't stopping every 5 holes to get more beer.

Nothing gets under my skin more than seeing a group of 20 or 30 somethings pull up to the 1st tee in carts. Why are you riding? WHy are you bothering to even play the game, when all you really want to do is drink and flirt with the beer girl. Save your $ and give the rest of the golfers on the course a break. Just sit at the patio and drink, because you really aren't that interested in PLAYING the game.

[guitarman]

They have single carts now I have seen them. QUite cool actually. They look very similar to the medical power strollers you see people in, but have a section for golf clubs. So there ya go!


Maybe in 20 years time when I need a cart more courses will have these single riding carts.


Nothing gets under my skin more than seeing a group of 20 or 30 somethings pull up to the 1st tee in carts. Why are you riding? WHy are you bothering to even play the game, when all you really want to do is drink and flirt with the beer girl. Save your $ and give the rest of the golfers on the course a break. Just sit at the patio and drink, because you really aren't that interested in PLAYING the game.

You can't fault the 20 or 30 somethings. Its the courses that allow it. They provide the cart for them and supply the booze. Because they make the money.
It would be nice if the only way to get a cart was either you were a senior or you could produce documentation of health reasons why you needed one.
It would also be nice if alchohol were only allowed back at the club house. Both these solutions would take money away from the course that could have been made so are unlikely to ever happen. So if these are the real reasons for slow play, then slow play is not going away.

[wayland]

It would also be nice if alchohol were only allowed back at the club house. Both these solutions would take money away from the course that could have been made so are unlikely to ever happen. So if these are the real reasons for slow play, then slow play is not going away.

We already have unbearable green fees. Imagine if they had to make up the cost of fewer concession sales by jacking up the prices even more.

I think the golfing populous just needs to have all of these points ingrained in their minds. Maybe on the weekend rounds, the courses could get an extra marshall to really monitor the course and constantly get in the golfers' face about keeping up pace of play.
-Force groups to pick up if there is a gap
-put signs on teeboxes indicating there is a drop area up ahead on the holes with hazards between the teebox and fairway.
-inform people of proper use of a cart, not just cart path rules, etc. we're here to golf, not sit in a cart to watch your buddy hit his shot and then let him come over and watch your beautiful swing.

[Big Shooter]

oxymoron:
....Marshal tells the group in front of you to "pick your pace up", then they stop to get beer, etc. from the cart-tart! Not much he can do about that! :(

[guitarman]

I'm not really bothered that much by slow play. Its nice if I can get done in 4 hours but I won't go play if a 5 hour round will make me late for something else. That way I don't worry about it.
I started a round at Kings Forest on Saturday at about 12:30 pm. When I got in my van I was surprised to see it was after 6. Even though it took a long time to play I had alot of fun.
Last week at Glen Abbey I was on the range for 2 hours and it took close to 5 hours to play and then I was up in the club house for a couple more hours. I left home that day about noon and got home about 11:30. I guess I'm just not in a hurry to be anywhere but the golf course.:D

[wayland]

I think it plays slow because of ball hunting. Ban ball hunting, and we might see a 3.5 hour round...


Ah ha!! The solution is to post signs in all the fescue and wooded areas.

"Beware of rattlesnakes"

And impose a local rule of 1 shot penalty (not the 2 shot lost ball penalty).

[trunckslammer1]

I'm not really bothered that much by slow play. Its nice if I can get done in 4 hours but I won't go play if a 5 hour round will make me late for something else. That way I don't worry about it.
I started a round at Kings Forest on Saturday at about 12:30 pm. When I got in my van I was surprised to see it was after 6. Even though it took a long time to play I had alot of fun.
Last week at Glen Abbey I was on the range for 2 hours and it took close to 5 hours to play and then I was up in the club house for a couple more hours. I left home that day about noon and got home about 11:30. I guess I'm just not in a hurry to be anywhere but the golf course.:D

Before, when the family was young, I always try to play early - Ist tee time if possible and never stayed after the round. It was the only way I could play on the weekend without getting any static from the other half. Now, I like Terry, plan a whole day around golf unless I have prior committments. I never rush to finish my round. Time on the golf course to me is relative. If the round tales 4 hours or less, but I have to wait on every shot, I get a little upset. On the other hand, If I do not have to wait on most of my shots, and it took 5 hours or more to play and the company was good, I found the round to be very enjoyable - like Saturday at KF.

[laps]

I agree with the previous post. Its nice to get a round done in four hours, but its even more important to have a steady flow to the game. After several years of subtle encouragement my wife and two teenagers have embraced the game, so a round of golf is quality family time.

Other posts have stated that carts are a reason for slower play. On average I would agree with that assessment. When sharing a cart its difficult to play ready golf and its even harder to get in the flow of the game.

I think that golf should be viewed as an athletic activity, more a marathon than a sprint though. Riding a cart takes away from the athleticism. I beleive that Tiger finishes tournaments strongly is because he is fitter than most golfers on the PGA Tour.

As far as paying a premium for a shorter round of golf I would certainly do that. I joined CLubLink, rounds are ususall between 4 and 4.5 hours. I've done 18 in two hours playing alone late on a Sunday. The big advantage is that you will never creep over five hours and the pace is usually steady but not rushed.