High and low handicappers playing together

[Jaydog]

anyone know how to use the handicaps when one player is a low handicap playing with someone that is a high handicap? in particular, how do you deal with a difference of handicaps greater than 18?

an example would be great. let's say for a 3 handicapper playing with a 21. how do you account for the other 3 strokes?

[Greywolf]

Give them an extra stroke on the 3 toughest handicap holes, ie:

if holes #2, #7 and #13 are rated as 1, 2, 3 handicap holes on the scorecard the guy should get 2 strokes on each of those holes, 1 stroke on the others.

[noback]

I assume you meant a 24 handicapper and a 3 where the difference is 21.
Geywolfe is bang on , 2 strokes for each of the 3 toughest holes. :D

Unless of course you are playing for money and most matches are for 80% of your handicap. In which case you're 21 difference is now 17 strokes:rolleyes:

[Jaydog]

lol...thanks for the correction noback. :$ that's exactly what i meant. :rofl:

i'm just glad greywolf knew what i was trying to say and answered appropriately. must be one of those jedi mind tricks.

[Focker Singh]

anyone know how to use the handicaps when one player is a low handicap playing with someone that is a high handicap? in particular, how do you deal with a difference of handicaps greater than 18?

an example would be great. let's say for a 3 handicapper playing with a 21. how do you account for the other 3 strokes?
The answer is NO Jaydog, YOU will not be getting 21 strokes off me next time we play for Skins! :rofl:

[Jaydog]

The answer is NO Jaydog, YOU will not be getting 21 strokes off me next time we play for Skins! :rofl:

i understand if you are afraid of a little challenge. but hey thems the rules. :D

[Grass Roots Tour]

I am strongly opposed to giving out strokes in carry-over skins games.

Its just far too easy for the player receiving strokes to play trashy all day while others tie then come to the 2 stroke hole and finally make a par.
Not from my wallet. Even in the fine print, my forehead doesn't say "sucker".

[patricks]

Even in the fine print, my forehead doesn't say "sucker".
Ahhhh.... so the semi permanent ink finally wore off? :rofl:



Sorry I had to.... absolutely had to... I feel morally appalled that I did but I *had* to... :confused:

[boo1]

I am strongly opposed to giving out strokes in carry-over skins games.

Its just far too easy for the player receiving strokes to play trashy all day while others tie then come to the 2 stroke hole and finally make a par.
Not from my wallet. Even in the fine print, my forehead doesn't say "sucker".I don't understand why low handicap players are always afraid to give strokes. Unless your opponent is a sand bagger, it's just as easy for him to get a double to your par and you win the hole. As a 15 handicap I get sick and tired of 3 and 4 handicappers wanting to give me 2 or 3 a side and thinking that's totally fair. The USGA and R&A have come up with a system that is supposed to make the game even for all ability levels to play against each other. Why does everyone think they can improve on it. :mad:

[laxgolf]

I don't understand why low handicap players are always afraid to give strokes. Unless your opponent is a sand bagger, it's just as easy for him to get a double to your par and you win the hole. As a 15 handicap I get sick and tired of 3 and 4 handicappers wanting to give me 2 or 3 a side and thinking that's totally fair. The USGA and R&A have come up with a system that is supposed to make the game even for all ability levels to play against each other. Why does everyone think they can improve on it. :mad:
Sandbagging. That's why. In a tournament, how many times have you seen a 'claimed' 17 handicap post an 83 or 84? My buddies and I use the handicap system fairly and it works like a charm. It's just almost impossible that someone according to their handicap and always shoots in the high 90's to all-of-a-sudden-in-a-tournament-setting fire off an 84. If someone I don't know well insists on using handicaps or getting strokes, I insist on seeing their handicap card. Otherwise we're going head to head.

[noback]

I don't understand why low handicap players are always afraid to give strokes. Unless your opponent is a sand bagger, it's just as easy for him to get a double to your par and you win the hole. As a 15 handicap I get sick and tired of 3 and 4 handicappers wanting to give me 2 or 3 a side and thinking that's totally fair. The USGA and R&A have come up with a system that is supposed to make the game even for all ability levels to play against each other. Why does everyone think they can improve on it. :mad: If you understand the mathematical concept of limits as it applies to golf, you will see that the "margin of improvement" for a high handicap player is much greater than that of the lower handicap player. It is a lot easier for an 18 handicaper to improve by 2 strokes than it is for the 0 handicaper to improve by the same. It is easier for the 18 to make 2 pars than it is for the 0 to make 2 birdies, therefore the 18 has an advantage, IN MATCH PLAY.

I also found this on the USGA rules site for you (descision 6-2a/6):D

In a handicap match play competition, the conditions provided that, where handicaps were different, an allowance of 3 / 4 of the difference would be used.

[boo1]

If you understand the mathematical concept of limits as it applies to golf, you will see that the "margin of improvement" for a high handicap player is much greater than that of the lower handicap player. It is a lot easier for an 18 handicaper to improve by 2 strokes than it is for the 0 handicaper to improve by the same. It is easier for the 18 to make 2 pars than it is for the 0 to make 2 birdies, therefore the 18 has an advantage, IN MATCH PLAY.

I also found this on the USGA rules site for you (descision 6-2a/6):DI've got no problem with 75%, we play that all the time at my club. It's when guys only want to give half or less that gets me upset. I guess that I just have to live with it because of all the sandbaggers out there. Unfortunately they are part of our game that will never go away....*******s.

[neltron3030]

I think the problem with indexes and handicaps is that it doesn't take all of your scores into consideration. For a player like me who is very inconsistent, it would be possible for me to shoot a round in the mid 80s even though my handicap is in the 20s. It is more likely I shoot in the 100s but a round in the 80s wouldn't be out of the question.

I think they should modify the index system to include all of your rounds. By only calculating your best scores I don't think its really a fair way to calculate it. That being said, I know nothing about statistics relating to this topic.

Neil

[Nocturnal]

Sandbagging. That's why. In a tournament, how many times have you seen a 'claimed' 17 handicap post an 83 or 84?
My current index is 14.5 and my rounds this year range from 81 (my first of the year) to 101 (my latest and only round over 95 -- which is why I'm taking some lessons!)

Higher handicappers tend to have a lot more variability in their scores than low handicappers, that's why you see most tournaments won by mid handicappers. I'm not saying there aren't lots of sandbaggers out there, but it's not impossible for a 17 handicap to shoot an 83 or 84, in fact it's quite likely.

[Grass Roots Tour]

What is almost impossible but seen all the time?

A tournament winning score of net 60.

How is it possible for a high handicapper to show up at a tournament and play 12 shots better than the average of ten best from the last 20 games played?
AND some even post numbers in the 50s.
This type of thing is mathematically impossible. Thats the equivilant of a scratch player shooting 60. I'm not talking a PGA tour star here cause those guys are plus 8 or so handicap players.
I'm talking about your run o the mill, muny course playing, scratch golfer going out and shooting 60.
Really, what are the odds? Especially at an away course, like you always see at invitational tournies.

Cheaters are everywhere and until they stop the handicap system will never work.