Piper's Heath

[underpar11]

I'm scheduled to play Piper's on Saturday, Sept 1st.

I've read mixed reviews on the conditions of the course.

Any updates on the course would be appreciated.

[2muchclub]

I played there Aug 15th. It has the potential to be a challenging course...next year. Things need to grow there (like the fescue but it could be good if you're having a bad round). Here's my review:

http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/showthread.php?t=11284&page=2

[coe14]

Played there for the first time yesterday and was disappointed.

You can't play a serious match there yet - greens are too bumpy and soft. Course was very very soft everywhere. I'm assuming they will try to speed things up next year - the course was designed to play much firmer. Start top dressing/aerifiying boys!

However, that is not why I was disappointed - I'm not expecting the turf to be excellent on a course open for a couple of months. I think Graham Cooke lost his mind designing the greens - almost every green is tremendously complicated. Sometimes less is more - and in Piper's case more is way too much.

I'll use the example of the 14th green - which is typical. Long par 4 playing into the wind - mid to long iron into the green. From the fairway you can't see very much of the green - just the front area. A few steps on and it falls away hard to the back and left. There is a tongue of green back right; I don't think there is a reasonable hole position back there. Back left there is a collection area, but all the options are taken away because it is separated by 5 yards of rough between it and the green. This was common on the course - why have collection areas and then take away all options by having rough in front of it? Never seen this before to this extent. Many greens slope front to back - way too many. Combined with a cup setter that appears to have never played golf before, it makes for a day of mini-putt.

BTW #8 has a horseshoe shaped green with big signs - "No chipping" - so I pitched it. If you design a green like that, too bad. Definitely another nonsense green that stands out among all the other slightly less nonsense greens.

I did like the rectangular teeing areas and the look of many of the holes - #11 is a really great looking hole. Also unbelievably long walk between 9 and 10, but otherwise walkable.

Another weakness is there is no requirement or advantage to manouvering the ball off the tee. Straight is best on every hole until #14. There should be some advantage to being able to work the ball both ways.

Really was hoping to like this course more.

[Feherty Fan]

I played their yesterday as well... Definitely agree on the design of the greens, way to complicated. Had to scratch my head on a couple of occasions wondering what they were thinking on the design as they really seem to limit themselves on good pin locations.

I personally found hitting just short or on the front edge of the green was the best strategy. Trying to hit to the center of the green or at a pin, usually got me in one of the collection areas which was usually a tricky shot.

The condition of the greens I thought were ok and rolled ok for me, but did notice the back nine was faster then the front. Probably due to having an early tee off time and the dew had burned off the greens by the time I got to the turn.

I would play again, but might wait until next year to let the fairways fill in a little more...

[The Troll]

BTW #8 has a horseshoe shaped green with big signs - "No chipping"

:rofl:

That is just moronic design then....if the designer can't foresee this being an issue then you have to wonder. There is a par 3 at Willow Valley that I have chipped on a couple of times.

After he designed Willow Valley I figured he came to his senses as the greens he did at Hunter's Pointe (LL) were a lot more reasonable.

[Bobogo]

The little I know from the staff at Piper's and as posted on TGN previously is that the greens on the front and on the back were seeded I can't believe this at different times. One 9 in the fall the other in the spring. Can anyone confirm? Does this seem incredibly stupid or will it work itself out over time?

[coe14]

:rofl:

That is just moronic design then....if the designer can't foresee this being an issue then you have to wonder. There is a par 3 at Willow Valley that I have chipped on a couple of times.

After he designed Willow Valley I figured he came to his senses as the greens he did at Hunter's Pointe (LL) were a lot more reasonable.

Any you don't have to miss by that much to be in a situation where you have to pitch the ball from one side to the other.

Also, if anyone from the course reads this, you cannot put 12" x 8" wooden signs with 1" diameter posts on them, on the green to mark closest to the pin - some par 3s had two of these gargantuan signs on the green (one for men and one for women?). They are ugly and in the way. Note: there are little galvanized steel holders designed for this purpose.

[JEBS]

I have not yet played PH yet, I will probably wait until next year. I kinda feel sorry for a new course (Tarrandowah, PH) That opened this year with the driest summer in 50 years. I was playing Glencairn last week and they have roped off some of the fescue areas to make sure it does not die.

[RobertThompson]

I have not yet played PH yet, I will probably wait until next year. I kinda feel sorry for a new course (Tarrandowah, PH) That opened this year with the driest summer in 50 years. I was playing Glencairn last week and they have roped off some of the fescue areas to make sure it does not die.

I played the course today and I think that -- with the exception of the seventh hole -- I largely found the course quite playable and in good condition. The greens were fine and receptive to the appropriate shots. Perhaps the course should be more firm, but I suspect that will change once the grow in is finished.

I thought the course offered good value for money -- and it is hard to think of a comparable layout at its price point.

[golferboy]

Can you expand on your comments with regards to the 7th hole?

I played the course today and I think that -- with the exception of the seventh hole -- I largely found the course quite playable and in good condition. The greens were fine and receptive to the appropriate shots. Perhaps the course should be more firm, but I suspect that will change once the grow in is finished.

I thought the course offered good value for money -- and it is hard to think of a comparable layout at its price point.

[JEBS]

I played the course today and I think that -- with the exception of the seventh hole -- I largely found the course quite playable and in good condition. The greens were fine and receptive to the appropriate shots. Perhaps the course should be more firm, but I suspect that will change once the grow in is finished.

I thought the course offered good value for money -- and it is hard to think of a comparable layout at its price point.

Thanks RT ! I usually find your reviews spot on! maybe I will try to squeeze PH in this year!!

[RobertThompson]

Can you expand on your comments with regards to the 7th hole?

Sure -- the fairway was a touch rough -- not back, certainly very playable, but not lush and thick. But it was seeded late, at least that's my understanding.

[coe14]

I played the course today and I think that -- with the exception of the seventh hole -- I largely found the course quite playable and in good condition. The greens were fine and receptive to the appropriate shots. Perhaps the course should be more firm, but I suspect that will change once the grow in is finished.

I thought the course offered good value for money -- and it is hard to think of a comparable layout at its price point.

No way dude - completely disagree with your commnets - once the greens are rolling properly (it's a thatchy wet mess now) and firm up, you need to look out for the swinging log - hit the clown and win a free game. Ludicrous greens with no strategic value. Collection areas shaped like ameobas for no reason. Way over the top. Are you telling me that the 5th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th and 14th greens are appropriate?

Explain to me why a collection area is separated from a green by a thin band of rough. Why have a closely mowed area at all - nonsensical.

[Bellyhungry]

I wonder if Mr T will write a comprehensive review, especially on Graham Cooke as a golf course architect.

[Feherty Fan]

Are you telling me that the 5th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th and 14th greens are appropriate?

5th was ok, but pin was in a brutal spot right on the ridge line.
6th I thought was the worst green. Very mini putt, with that huge valley in the middle
8th was a little crazy. Not bad if you are on the side with the pin. But get on the wrong side and you are screwed.
10th didn't have any real issues with, just narrow was alot of slope
12th narrow with a big collection area at the back, hard to land on the green
14th same as 12th

Overall, I agree Coe, greens are the downside of this course. A little too mickey mouse for my liking...

[sennawcf1]

I have read some of the reviews and I disagree with many of the posters. I really liked the course. A wonderful mixture of long par 3s, 4s, 5s and short par 3s, 4s and 5s. I liked the layout. Sure I expected it to be running harder and faster - like a true links golf course. I expected to be hitting 2, 3 and 4 irons off the tee boxes and having the ball run, but weather determines how a course will play. I thought the greens were quite fair given the newness of the greens complex, I am quite satsified with the way the ball was rolling. 3 Putts are my own fault :)
I do think that some people judge a course based on their scores rather than the actual layout. I like the course and I will be returning when possible. As time passes by I expect the course to get better and better. The fescue will grown in and the ground will settle - making for great fairways and excellent greens.

[Bellyhungry]

Mr. T wrote a review on his blog ontgolf.ca....

[laxgolf]

I'm playing the course tomorrow and have heard nothing but good things.

[RobertThompson]

Mr. T wrote a review on his blog ontgolf.ca....

Gosh you're quick. I feel like I've got a stalker.

[Bellyhungry]

Gosh you're quick. I feel like I've got a stalker.

Haha....

I prefer to call that 'civilian surveillance'....Stalking would constitute a parole violation for me...

Just kidding of course....

BTW, that weekend hacker dude at your blog is violating the condition of his employment: he has been reviewing expensive golf courses and/or outside of the GTA.

[slemmer]

After a couple weeks hiatus, I'll be there next Saturday. I seem to like it - a bit of Glencairn, a bit of Braeben, and some new maples of ballantrye. The collection areas make me shoot straighter and to avoid those pesky catch basins. Fairways are a little soft - probably so that they can get the root system going well for next year. I'm only playing at the twilights rates until the next year where the full cost of the green fees will be warranted.

[underpar11]

Played Saturday and enjoyed my round. It was a bit slow (5 hours) however the course was in good shape and you can't get much better in the GTA for 79 bux. The greens rolled true and were definitely a fair test.

The service was comparable to the higher end courses that I have played this year (Angus, Wooden Sticks, Eagles Nest). I will be back this year for another round.

[ontario]

Just played my first round there and I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

I enjoyed the layout. I like courses where you can freely whack a driver off the tee and are rewarded for hitting a long, straight drive.

I didn't mind the undulating greens with collection areas. You can usually see the green clearly from the fairway and you have to be careful about where you drop your approach. Like one poster said, it's better to miss short here and then bump and run up to the pin.

My only negative was the conditions of putting surface itself. They were neither slow, nor fast but they were just plain weird. Very deceptive and inconsistent breaks. Also, the pin placements were very difficult. My front nine, I three-putted four times. On the back nine, I adjusted to a more defensive approach and basically tried to two-putt every green. This worked better.

Overall, I'd say it's a pretty decent public course. Good service and practice facilities. Ping and TM driver demos available which is rare for a public course. I'd recommend this course to anyone. It's certainly worth at least one try. I'd give it an overall 3.5 out of 5 stars.

[Chip Shot]

Has anyone played the course lately? I was thinking of playing next week. :help:

[bythehour]

Has anyone played the course lately? I was thinking of playing next week. :help:

I played two weekends ago. The course was in pretty good shape. The greens were pretty fast, despite the otherwise soft conditions.

The service and pace of play were pretty good. I'd go back.