Golf pro messed me up, or am I too much a "free thinker" ?

[Zeuser]

So i took my first 5 lessons and learned the basic techniques. This is good, this is why I went there in the first place. But for the last 2 lessons my golf pro has been obsessed with trying to make me swing in the classic sense.

He's really messed me up good. Yesterday after work I went to the driving range and decided to deviate from the "schedule". While still retaining most of the basics, I got into what I find is a comfortable and balanced posture. It isn't the "ideal" as my golf pro has taught me but I'm having more success doing things my way.

For one thing, I've gotten rid of my push by following Shadow's advice but at the same time I did my own posture as I feel I'm cmfortable with. Here's what happened: 30 straight balls with 5 iron landing around the 175yrd marker with the occaisonal slice here and there, probably because I got distracted by that babe in the short skirt in front of me.

For one thing, I've completly cleared my mind of the mechanics of what I'm supposed to do. Simply put; The hell with it... just hit the damn ball!

I've also changed my grip. I think I've got the grip right for the most part but with my stubby fingers, and a mild case of carpal tunnel syndrome (I'm an IT guy), the overlap grip is actually painful for me. So I've switched to a ten finger grip. Ah... much better. It doesn't hurt and I'm still striking the ball better.

I tried to do it the way he instructed me, I really did. But for the last 3 weeks I haven't been able to hit anything properly. Sure I looked good on the driving range but what the hell good is it if I can't put the ball where I want it? That's until yesterday when I finally got fed up and took matters into my own hands. Now I'm getting the results I was looking for. And I still look good doing it BTW.

Here's my biggest problem: I've got one more lesson to go. I'm sure I'll really disappoint the guy when I show up at my next lesson with my own "custom" swing. This guy has been doing this for 30 years so I'm sure he knows what he's doing. But it's just not working out for me. I don't think I'll ever get his "ideal" swing down no matter how hard I try. It's too bad I didn't figure this stuff out sooner. Saturday is my last lesson (pay for 5 lessons, get on free type of deal). I have a bad feeling it's going to be an ugly sight!

And don't get me wrong, this guy is great. He's such an easy going type of guy and really patient. Much more than I am. Put it this way: if I were in his place, I would've smacked me by now! In a way I have a feeling I'm going to feel real bad for letting him down. I'm sure every instructor likes the feeling that their teachings have really helped their students.

But with my new "Custom" swing I'm really nailing the balls dead on! 9 iron, 5 iron and even my 10' Driver are working great. I've never hit this good before... ever. Sure, my short game, putting and sand play probably needs some work but we haven't even gone over that part yet. His basic instructions and my "custom fitting" is now working out great for me.

Oh yes, Saturday isn't going to be a pretty sight indeed.

[haribo]

Well, let's hope your new "custom" swing will hold up when you take it from the driving range to the course where the pressure is all over sudden on.

Regarding your Pro ... it looks like you're not going back after your last session. So, either skip the last one or ask him to work on something with you other than your swing.
Then go out and look for a new swing coach who doesn't try to fit you into a mold but rather works with you on finding your swing.

One more thing, with "stubby" hands the overlapping grip doen't work great. Try the interlocking one. Might work better for you and is probably a better choice than the 10 finger baseball grip (unless you're Bob Estes).

Good luck.

[SW20 MR2]

IMO, the key would be with your "custom" swing, are you using two wrongs to make it right? That is, are you doing something wrong and then compensating in another to give you a good ball flight?

[Mule56]

So i took my first 5 lessons and learned the basic techniques. He's really messed me up good.
I tried to do it the way he instructed me, I really did. But for the last 3 weeks I haven't been able to hit anything properly.
Here's my biggest problem: I've got one more lesson to go. I'm sure I'll really disappoint the guy when I show up at my next lesson with my own "custom" swing. This guy has been doing this for 30 years so I'm sure he knows what he's doing. But it's just not working out for me. I don't think I'll ever get his "ideal" swing down no matter how hard I try.
In a way I have a feeling I'm going to feel real bad for letting him down. I'm sure every instructor likes the feeling that their teachings have really helped their students.
I had to laugh when I read this. It reminded me so much of me. Before the first lesson I ever took my instructor told me things would get worse before they got better. His words still ring in my ears. "It took Tiger a year and a half to make a swing change. How many hours a day do you plan to spend on your change". I looked at him funny. "You look like a smart guy, do the math", he continued.
Well he was so right. The first year the score card didn't change much. Did a lesson every three weeks. But I did go from loosing 6 balls a round down to 3 by the end of the year.
The next year I started to notice that things were getting better. I had did my home work all winter and everything felt more natural. Then he started working on short game and putting (I refused to do these first, 'cause I knew better, HA!). All of a sudden the score card looked better, I played a couple of rounds with the same ball I started the round with.
Long story made short, I'm now at year 5. Things are still getting better and I have monthly check ups if I don't let my ego get in the way. Golf is a game for life and it take us all of that to realize that we will always be students of the game.
Mule

[247golfing]

I had to laugh when I read this. It reminded me so much of me. Before the first lesson I ever took my instructor told me things would get worse before they got better. His words still ring in my ears. "It took Tiger a year and a half to make a swing change. How many hours a day do you plan to spend on your change". I looked at him funny. "You look like a smart guy, do the math", he continued.
Well he was so right. The first year the score card didn't change much. Did a lesson every three weeks. But I did go from loosing 6 balls a round down to 3 by the end of the year.
The next year I started to notice that things were getting better. I had did my home work all winter and everything felt more natural. Then he started working on short game and putting (I refused to do these first, 'cause I knew better, HA!). All of a sudden the score card looked better, I played a couple of rounds with the same ball I started the round with.
Long story made short, I'm now at year 5. Things are still getting better and I have monthly check ups if I don't let my ego get in the way. Golf is a game for life and it take us all of that to realize that we will always be students of the game.
Mule
Good advice. I think I am going thru this process now. I will try to be patient.

[Zeuser]

IMO, the key would be with your "custom" swing, are you using two wrongs to make it right? That is, are you doing something wrong and then compensating in another to give you a good ball flight?
That could be, but does it really matter? isn't the goal of this game to get the damn little ball in the damn little hole? If I can get decent yardage from all my clubs, get out of bunkers, putt 1 or 2 max per hole... does it really matter how I do it? I've seen some pretty ordinary swings on some very low scoring golfers out there.

I get this feeling that modern golfing is spending too much time trying to perfect the perfect golf swing with hours upon hours of lessons and hundreds spent on all types of training gadgets.

I'm of the "just do it" school of thought. So long as you grasp the basics, how you "assemble" your swing to get things done is really up to you.

Then again, I could be way off with this but so far it's working out for me. I'd rather get some positive results out of my lessons, even if it's only a slight improvement, than work my *** off for 6 months and get so fed up with the lack of improvement that I'll simply throw in the towel and quit the game completly. There's only so much my morale can take.

PS: Went to the driving range again tonight and did the same thing as yesterday. Same results, getting 170-180 yrds from my 5 iron going straight, for the most part.

[haribo]

That could be, but does it really matter? isn't the goal of this game to get the damn little ball in the damn little hole? If I can get decent yardage from all my clubs, get out of bunkers, putt 1 or 2 max per hole... does it really matter how I do it? I've seen some pretty ordinary swings on some very low scoring golfers out there.

I get this feeling that modern golfing is spending too much time trying to perfect the perfect golf swing with hours upon hours of lessons and hundreds spent on all types of training gadgets.

I'm of the "just do it" school of thought. So long as you grasp the basics, how you "assemble" your swing to get things done is really up to you.

Then again, I could be way off with this but so far it's working out for me. I'd rather get some positive results out of my lessons, even if it's only a slight improvement, than work my *** off for 6 months and get so fed up with the lack of improvement that I'll simply throw in the towel and quit the game completly. There's only so much my morale can take.

PS: Went to the driving range again tonight and did the same thing as yesterday. Same results, getting 170-180 yrds from my 5 iron going straight, for the most part.

Again, one of the first things you will learn as a beginner is that for some strange reason you'll rarely (it should read RARELY in capital letters) be able to do on the course what comes so easily on the range.

Go, play a round and then tell us how your 5 iron worked for you. Or how many shots you took less for your round with your new swing.

Good luck. haribo

P.S.
On that driving range of yours ... are you hitting of mats? Just wondering.

[SW20 MR2]

The answer to the question depends on your goals for the game. Some people have swing flaws that prevent them from taking their game to the next level. Others have terrible swings but still score very well.

Personally, I'm willing to sacrifice short-term scores in order to groove in my swing. I'm not looking for perfection, but I'd like one that's fundamentally sound enough for me to play the game until I'm old.

That could be, but does it really matter? isn't the goal of this game to get the damn little ball in the damn little hole?

[Zeuser]

Again, one of the first things you will learn as a beginner is that for some strange reason you'll rarely (it should read RARELY in capital letters) be able to do on the course what comes so easily on the range.

Go, play a round and then tell us how your 5 iron worked for you. Or how many shots you took less for your round with your new swing.

Good luck. haribo

P.S.
On that driving range of yours ... are you hitting of mats? Just wondering.
Both. Strangely enough I'm getting better results on the grass than on the mats. Probably because all my practicing has been done on the grass even though my lessons were on the mats.

Again, that's due to my "just do it" school of thought. I'm not going to have mats on the course, so might as well get used to the grass right?

I have to agree with you though. The course is a heck of a lot different than a driving range. But if you're hitting like crap on the range, aren't you also going to hit like crap on the course? That's what happened to me last week. now tha I'm getting better at the range with my "adjustments" the odds are that I'll probably be better on the course as well.

I'm going golfing tomorrow and I'll see if the new "adjustments" I've been practicing this week are going to work out or not.

If not... then I'm way off base. Doesn't matter, I learned the basics, now I'm just experimenting with different way to put it all together. Isn't that part of the fun too?

[Flogger]

That could be, but does it really matter? isn't the goal of this game to get the damn little ball in the damn little hole? If I can get decent yardage from all my clubs, get out of bunkers, putt 1 or 2 max per hole... does it really matter how I do it? I've seen some pretty ordinary swings on some very low scoring golfers out there.

Hey man, if you're happy where you're at and enjoying the game, then what more could you ask for :) . That's a good place to be. Many golfers I see seem to be very frustrated by the game every time they go out.

If for any reason you aspire to move to the next level in your game, then lessons, re-working your swing from time-to-time and tons of pratice and patience, will likely be the only route.

Enjoy!

[Zeuser]

Hey man, if you're happy where you're at and enjoying the game, then what more could you ask for :) . That's a good place to be. Many golfers I see seem to be very frustrated by the game every time they go out.

If for any reason you aspire to move to the next level in your game, then lessons, re-working your swing from time-to-time and tons of pratice and patience, will likely be the only route.

Enjoy!
Yeah, that's exactly it. I'd rather enjoy myself than be so damn frustrated that I'd quit this great game.

[tjhayko]

Hey man, if you're happy where you're at and enjoying the game, then what more could you ask for :) . That's a good place to be. Many golfers I see seem to be very frustrated by the game every time they go out.

If for any reason you aspire to move to the next level in your game, then lessons, re-working your swing from time-to-time and tons of pratice and patience, will likely be the only route.

Enjoy!

I agree 100 percent. The real question is can you play at a level that you are happy with. Some people are happy with what they get out of self taught swing, and they are consistent enough with it. Others want a more "classic" style swing, and want to continually move to another level. Nothing wrong with either, as long as the person making the swing is getting what they want out of it. That's what it's all about.

That said, if you do think you might want to get more help down the road, it will definitely be tougher with a self taught swing that with a more classic style.

[haribo]

Jim Furyk has a self tought swing. Nothing wrong with that. The question is not how good your swing looks. The only question that matters is: CAN YOU REPEAT IT over and over again?

If Yes, more power to you.

haribo

[Zeuser]

Update.

So Saturday I showed my golf pro my new "custom" swing. As it turns out, it's pretty much what he wanted to see after all. I was pretty surprised. I told him "This isn't the swing you taught me." He replied: "Sure it is. I showed you all the mechanics an how to put it together. You're pretty much doing the swing as I expected and if it's working out for you, so much the better."

So I was doing the right thing after all. I just wasn't thinking about it all. All the practice with my pro made me repeat the individual pieces of the swing to the point where it's almost second nature. I was just over-thinking my swing. So I just went out to the driving range, cleared m head and let them rip. Success! At least with the irons that is.

9 Iron = 130 yrds
7 Iron = 150 yrds
5 Iron = 180 yrds
3 Iron = 190 yrds

^ Approx. Average with 30 balls each.

And they're going straight with a really nice arc too. Damn, I looked like a seasoned golfer out there. My buddy was amazed by my progress. And other people nearby started asking me for tips to which I replied: "I've only been doing this for a month now; you don't want any advice from me except I'll say this: take a few basic lessons and take it from there."
I was also ripping them at a very fast rate. I emptied my 100 ball basket in half the time my buddy did. It wasn't a race and I wasn't trying to go uber fast either. I just wasn't over-thinking my shots. I just stepped up to my balls, did my little pre-shot routine and let her rip. I was so "into it", I hit a second bucket, a third and then a forth. My buddy go tired after the 2n bucket (200 balls). I wasn't tired at all! When you do it right, you can hit balls for 4 hours and not be tired at all.

I also recently discovered the magic of :

1 - Pronating an supernating.
2 - Hit the ball with the club, not the swing. And...
3 - Distance with no effort.

It works! God damn does it ever work!

A few more days of practice on the grass at the local driving range and I'll be hitting the course later this week for my 2nd round this year. Hopefully it works out better.

Note: Still need lots of work on both the driver and short game. I also need some work with my putting.

I'm no expert, far from it, but I looked good out there and it felt good too.

[Thimble]

1 - Pronating an supernating.
2 - Hit the ball with the club, not the swing. And...
3 - Distance with no effort.
sounds a lot like what AJ was talking about in his "the truth about golf" tapes...

i've been working on the same things with my swing lately, and i'm noticing some nice improvements as well.

[Zeuser]

That's exactly where I got it. AJ is right, this stuff really does work. Pronating and supernating is what's allowing me to hit it straight and far (irons).

Distance with no effort is wht makes me feel good though. Puts a big smile on my face to see the ball go that far without having to put any effort in the swing.

[Zeuser]

Monday update:

Although very tired from work, I hit the driving range (grass) today and it's still holding. Only hit a half bucket but the 9,7 and 5 irons are identical to yesterday.

If you haven't sen the AJ Golf tapes, I suggest you do. It really does work.

[Flogger]

That's exactly where I got it. AJ is right, this stuff really does work. Pronating and supernating is what's allowing me to hit it straight and far (irons).

Distance with no effort is wht makes me feel good though. Puts a big smile on my face to see the ball go that far without having to put any effort in the swing.
Okay, now I'm intrigued. What's pronating and supernating? Or can it only be understood by watching AJ's video?

[Zeuser]

It's best you watch the videos, in the proper order I might add. It makes a heck of a lot of sense. Combine what you've learned about the golf swing with what AJ is talking about add it works. Took me a few balls to start getting used to it, then it took more balls to coordinate the whole thing properly.

Key issues:

1 - understand the golf ball works and how to exploit its construction.
2 - understand the tools you have (clubs), how they work and how to use them correctly.
3 - understand how the golf clubs work with your hands.

Then you start to conclude that what AJ is talking about really does work.

1 - Pronating and supernating really does improve your control of the ball.
2 - If you concentrate on hitting the ball with the club instead of the swing you can understand and anticipate the moment of impact. Takes practice but it works.
3 - Once you get it all working together you really do end up getting distance without effort.

Obviously I'm still a noob and I still need practice but with my lessons and trying to apply what I understood on AJ's videos, my ball striking has taken a turn for the much better. Yes... even on the grass!

Pronating and supernating is something you do with your wrists during the swing. You open up the club face on the back swing and as you swing down you start closing the club face and keep going all the way into your follow through. Takes coordination to time it right at the moment of impact but it does work. Watch the AJ golf videos, it'll make a whole lot of sense after the 3rd video.

[Flogger]

It's best you watch the videos, in the proper order I might add. It makes a heck of a lot of sense. Combine what you've learned about the golf swing with what AJ is talking about add it works. Took me a few balls to start getting used to it, then it took more balls to coordinate the whole thing properly.

Key issues:

1 - understand the golf ball works and how to exploit its construction.
2 - understand the tools you have (clubs), how they work and how to use them correctly.
3 - understand how the golf clubs work with your hands.

Then you start to conclude that what AJ is talking about really does work.

1 - Pronating and supernating really does improve your control of the ball.
2 - If you concentrate on hitting the ball with the club instead of the swing you can understand and anticipate the moment of impact. Takes practice but it works.
3 - Once you get it all working together you really do end up getting distance without effort.

Obviously I'm still a noob and I still need practice but with my lessons and trying to apply what I understood on AJ's videos, my ball striking has taken a turn for the much better. Yes... even on the grass!

Pronating and supernating is something you do with your wrists during the swing. You open up the club face on the back swing and as you swing down you start closing the club face and keep going all the way into your follow through. Takes coordination to time it right at the moment of impact but it does work. Watch the AJ golf videos, it'll make a whole lot of sense after the 3rd video.
Very interesting. I appreciate the response. Thanks.

[Thimble]

"SUPINATING". as in "SUPINE": Lying on one's back, face upwards.