Draw and Fade - Path and Club Face

[Allstargravytrain]

I'm sure this question has been answered in previous posts, but here goes anyways...

I'm confused about the role the following two factors play in determining whether a ball draws or fades: 1) Path of the clubhead (i.e., whether the club approaches from inside, outside or on plane); and 2) Club Face at impact (i.e., whether the club face at impact is closed, open or square).

The reason I ask is because I always thought that the path determines only whether the ball draws or fades whereas the position of the club face determines only where the ball starts in relation to where your feet/hips/shoulders are pointing.

A buddy of mine swears that he hooks the ball with an outside-in path of the clubhead and a shut club face. I probably don't understand the physics but I assumed that you could only hook the ball with an inside-out path... I"m probably wrong.

C'mon Shadow & Nick S - I know you guys know this stuff! Help me out! :D

[Imran Aziz]

My swing is, as other members said, needs improvement (true) but I can draw or fade when I want ;) Kicker is, only with hybrids and irons.

My woods / driver sucks, so I won't comment on it, but here's what I do with my hybrid: Full back swing. That removed out | in, in | out thingy. Think about rolling your right hand over your left hand more on hook / fade and less on draw / slice. Tada!

Best excercise I find is trying to slice!!! Or trying to hook! When you try and able to do so, then you know what happened when and you're in pretty good shape.

Again, Noob here. Not a pro by any means.

[goshawk]

The position of the clubface at impact does determine the initial direction the ball will move. Square=straight, open=push, closed=pull. The swing path determines the spin direction that's put on the ball at impact. On plane=straight, inside to out=counterclockwise, outside to inside=clockwise. Combine these factors and you'll have the ingredients for different ball flights. For instance, combine an inside to out swing path with a closed clubface and you have a draw. On plane path with a closed clubface and you'll likely get a pull hook. And everybody's favorite, outside to inside with an open clubface will most likely result in the dreaded banana ball slice. The severity of the rotation on the ball comes from how much open/closed the clubface is at impact.
I hope this helps clear things up.

[Golftime]

If you like pictures here is a Word document that helps explain hooks, fades, pushes and pulls. It is for a right handed golfer, reverse the terms if you are left handed.

[LowPost42]

Allstar,

Both factors (face angle and path) influence ball flight. The larger determiner of initial direction is face angle. I've read numbers that put it around 80-85% of influence. This means that path effects it, too, but not nearly to the same degree as FA.

For curving ballflights, we examine the relationship between FA and path.
When the FA is closed compared to the path, we get draw side movement.
When the FA is open compared to the path, we get fade side movement.

The amount that the FA deviates from the path will dicate how much movement we get.

[dekker]

Don't make it too complicated for yourself,and stay with some basics.

To Draw- take a slightly closed stance in relation to your target( for example, using the face of a clock as a mental image,align your body at 1 o'clock)
This body orientation will also act as your swing path guide.
In other words you would be swinging along your body line.( by the clock,the swing would be from 7-1)
your ball position by the way is the same as normal.
Close the clubface ,till it aims at the target.
Swing normally.
To fade repeat the whole scenario except your body alignment is now at 11 o'clock and your swing path is from 5-11. The clubface was set open so it aimed at the target.

These are the simplest ways to effect a shape but it requires a great deal of practice to accurately judge the amount of shape for every instance.

Your body alignment sets up the initial flight line of the ball and your clubface alignment determines the last part of the flight line to the target

[coe14]

[Close the clubface ,till it aims at the target.
[/quote]

Do you rotate your hands or the club?

[LowPost42]

Close the clubface ,till it aims at the target.


Do you rotate your hands or the club?

Rotate the club, then regrip. Otherwise you'll push the ball if you setup draw, and pull it if you setup fade (as by simply rotating your hands while still holding the club will have your hands back to 'normal' [square] at impact).

[Hombre Lefty]

easiest way to imagine it... stand at address pointing your feet toward where you want the ball to start, and point the clubface where you want it to end, and swing normally. You will see immediately that you can curve the ball with face opening/closing alone, you can change the initial direction with swing path, but almost impossible to do it the other way.