McAmmond gets laid out.

[cdnputter]

Dirty hit or not? I think it was a cheap shot, total lack of respect for another player.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HerZdQmigLs

[racmbs]

Dirty hit, clearly left his feet.

Although there is no place for that in hockey, I'd have been happy if it were Chris Neil on the receiving end of that as he's thrown around his fare share of dirty hits in the league and is in need of a good pummeling.

[dks_34]

He left his feet....I hope he gets a major suspension for that one.

[nearace]

yeah that was cheap,good reason to keep your head up.

[Leftygolfer30]

Hate to see something like that.

The thing is, it occurred to me while watching it - a well executed hip check would have been much more effective. He could have taken the puck from him and still been in a position to play the puck. Unfortunately, the hip check is a lost art.

[davevandyk]

Hate to see something like that.

The thing is, it occurred to me while watching it - a well executed hip check would have been much more effective. He could have taken the puck from him and still been in a position to play the puck. Unfortunately, the hip check is a lost art.

Well he didn't have the puck at the time, so it was ridiculous. Like they said on TSN, this is a hit that demonstrates everything they don't want to see. He tracked him for 40 feet, he charged him when he didn't have the puck, he jumped at the guy, he elbowed him, and went right for the head with intent to injure.

The hard part is that how do you suspend a guy that isn't likely to play for the Flyers. I hope they can work out a suspension, where no matter if he's in the NHL or CHL, he will get a substancial suspension.

I think this is the perfect situation where the league has to dish out a LARGE fine/suspension to show other "retards" that there is a severe penalty for this, not just a 3-5 game suspension. I mean if you throw out a 25 game suspension and a 1/4 of the guys salary, you know he WILL NOT be running a guy again.

[Section ThirtyOne]

:mad:

Steve Downie pulled this crap in Junior A when he played for Kitchener. (my former hometown) Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeap shot, and he should be suspended for a good long while.

[Bellyhungry]

Wasn't Downie the pride of Canada representing Canada winning those World Junior Gold?

[JEBS]

The hit was obviously cheap. But when you add a young kid trying to crack the NHL as a physical player with adrenaline and the heat of battle unfortunately these things will still happen. These types of players play with their emotions on their sleeve and sometimes that is going to get in the way when you only have a split second to think about your actions.

It seems that McAmmond faired better than originally thought which is the only plus.

[laxgolf]

Wasn't Downie the pride of Canada representing Canada winning those World Junior Gold?

He was, and when Jack Johnson (US team) laid him out in the semis I remember telling myself, 'at least Johnson got the right guy'. Downie has been doing this kind of thing through his OHL career and hasn't learned. Hopefully he's suspended long enough that the NHL loses interest in him and his career is in jeopardy just like McCAmmond's is. He may never play again.

That type of hit happens fairly often in the NHL. My biggest beef with all this isn't so much the hit. Yeah it was dirty, but what really bothers me is that Downie went looking for someone to throttle after he got smashed by Schubert, and lined McCammond up long before the hit ever happened. IMO, that's what should get Downie the long suspension. It was premeditated along the same lines as the Betruzzi hit. I'm not saying they're directly comparable, but the actions leading up to the hits were.

I only wish that he hadn't of been thrown out of the game, and could have had the opportunity to deal with McGrattan. Although in the AHL he'll have to deal with Yablonski, who's an MMA fighter in the offseason. What the NHL needs to do is get rid of the instigator rule so these punks think twice about doing things like this. I have to admit that it was nice to hear the comments coming out of the Leafs dressing room. These guys hate each other on the ice, but are brothers off of it.

[davevandyk]

The hit was obviously cheap. But when you add a young kid trying to crack the NHL as a physical player with adrenaline and the heat of battle unfortunately these things will still happen. These types of players play with their emotions on their sleeve and sometimes that is going to get in the way when you only have a split second to think about your actions.

It seems that McAmmond faired better than originally thought which is the only plus.

No these things don't happen. This hit goes far beyond the Neil/Drury hit, the Pronger/McAmmond hit, the Torres/Williams hit etc. If a kid needs to "track" a guy from across the ice, thinking this is gonna get him on the team, then the hockey community has a LOT to think about. Let's just be happy that Clarke isn't still the GM for the Flyers, cause a bone-head like him would have likely been impressed.

EVERY player plays with his heart on his sleeves and these hits NEVER happen, at least not to the extent of the downie hit. I don't think there is a single way you can look at this and be able to sympathize with downie.

[Feherty Fan]

Definitely not a clean hit and I hope the NHL does something to reprimand him...

However, I do think its a shame just a young player like this is getting into trouble in this way. He has a history of questionable hits and actions and yet he still may make the Flyers roster. Just makes a bad role model for some of the younger players.

Also, makes me wonder if this could have been avoided in Juniors if a coach pulled him aside to work on his attitude instead of just letting him get away with this crap. Just because he had the potential be a future star in game, shouldn't mean he can do what he wants...

[laxgolf]

Also, makes me wonder if this could have been avoided in Juniors if a coach pulled him aside to work on his attitude instead of just letting him get away with this crap. Just because he had the potential be a future star in game, shouldn't mean he can do what he wants...

There's a reason why he was shuffled around the OHL. No one wanted to deal with him.

[JEBS]

EVERY player plays with his heart on his sleeves and these hits NEVER happen, at least not to the extent of the downie hit. I don't think there is a single way you can look at this and be able to sympathize with downie.

I am not trying to sympathize with him. But I do understand that a 20 year old put in a certain situation may not always make the right decisions. The kid obviously has some decision making issues and hopefully they get addressed. I do not think he should be playing in the NHL until he does.

I do not want to sympathize with him, yet I can relate with him I made some stupid sport decisions when I was his age as well as I have gone a little to far in a couple of fights that I had when I was younger. In the moment it seems like the right thing to do... twenty seconds later you realize that it was a bone head decision.

The sad thing is 20-30 years ago He would have had a standing ovation from giving that hit.. It seems that at least we are moving in the right direction.

There's a reason why he was shuffled around the OHL. No one wanted to deal with him.

Coaches do not have the same control over their players as they once did.

[ontario]

The hit was obviously cheap. But when you add a young kid trying to crack the NHL as a physical player with adrenaline and the heat of battle unfortunately these things will still happen. These types of players play with their emotions on their sleeve and sometimes that is going to get in the way when you only have a split second to think about your actions.

It seems that McAmmond faired better than originally thought which is the only plus.

Right. And if Downie had leaned down a bit and hit McAmmond 6 inches lower down, we'd all be talking about a great, clean hit. We'd be comparing Downie to Wendel Clark. In fact that hit reminds me of Wendel's layout out Bruce Bell of the Blues 20 years ago. Clark's hit was clean but the distinction between it and Downie's hit is minute.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nGRheKlGbq0

I can't stand Downie but honestly, the game encourages and applauds violence. Because Downie miscalculates somewhat, we vilify him? How are you going to make adjustments at 30 mph to ensure a clean vs. dirty hit. Just impossible.

[davevandyk]

I do not want to sympathize with him, yet I can relate with him I made some stupid sport decisions when I was his age as well as I have gone a little to far in a couple of fights that I had when I was younger. In the moment it seems like the right thing to do... twenty seconds later you realize that it was a bone head decision.

I know what you are saying, as i have done the same. However in the interview after, all he said is that he is trying to make an impression and hopes Dean isn't injured too bad. Doesn't sound like this kid realized how bone-headed his decision was.

[el tigre]

I can't stand Downie but honestly, the game encourages and applauds violence. Because Downie miscalculates somewhat, we vilify him? How are you going to make adjustments at 30 mph to ensure a clean vs. dirty hit. Just impossible. A match penalty is not given for a "miscalculation". A match penalty is given for attempting to injure.

The hit was an intentional and premeditated attempt to seriously injure someone. THAT is what Downie is being villified for, and rightly so.

[JEBS]

I know what you are saying, as i have done the same. However in the interview after, all he said is that he is trying to make an impression and hopes Dean isn't injured too bad. Doesn't sound like this kid realized how bone-headed his decision was.

If he does not check his attitude he will either have a one way ticket to the East Coast Hockey League or one of the reigning "kings of the mountain" will put him into his place.

[davevandyk]

Right. And if Downie had leaned down a bit and hit McAmmond 6 inches lower down, we'd all be talking about a great, clean hit. We'd be comparing Downie to Wendel Clark. In fact that hit reminds me of Wendel's layout out Bruce Bell of the Blues 20 years ago. Clark's hit was clean but the distinction between it and Downie's hit is minute.

Well the difference is what allows the NHL to not change to a no-hit league. There is a HUGE difference between the Clark hit and this one. Clark hit him square on, didn't leave his feet and did hit him in the chest with a solid bodycheck, not an elbow. But outside of these 3 MAJOR things, they are the same hit!

Wendell is waay too good to be mentioned in the same sentence as downie. Simply put, Wendell hit properly, and downie's hit broke about every rule the league has in place to protect the integrity of the game and protect the players.

[ontario]

A match penalty is not given for a "miscalculation". A match penalty is given for attempting to injure.

The hit was an intentional and premeditated attempt to seriously injure someone. THAT is what Downie is being villified for, and rightly so.

Please define "attempt to injure". Isn't every single fight an attempt to injure? Clark's hit on Bell was an attempt to injure. It was clean but it he sure meant to hurt the guy.

I laugh at the NHL's attempts to mete out justice. They'll suspend a guy one day and ignore the exact same infraction the next day.

If Downie threw that hit during the World Juniors, we'd all be applauding him for being a great Canadian. Steve Downie is the product of our system of hockey. He has been promoted and praised as a physical player. When he flirts with a dirty hit, we give him a little suspension. Three days later, we pat him on the butt and tell him to get out there and mix it up.

Downie's really no different than the great Canadian himself - Gordie Howe. We smile and joke about how Mr. Hockey threw his elbows around. Yet, Downie throws an elbow, McAmmond gets knocked out and we cover our mouths in horror. "Something must be done!". As if.

[laxgolf]

A match penalty is not given for a "miscalculation". A match penalty is given for attempting to injure.

The hit was an intentional and premeditated attempt to seriously injure someone. THAT is what Downie is being villified for, and rightly so.

Couldn't agree more. I said the same thing in my post above. The kid was looking to throttle someone the second he picked himself up after taking a clean hit from Schubert. That's the difference between his hit, and the hits Neil and Armstrong laid out last season. Those guys reacted to a play (with unfortunate results), while Downie specifically went out looking to hurt someone. The NHL will probably give him a bogus 10 game suspension and force him to attend anger management councelling, which I think he's already had to go through once.

Though unfortunate, this is the golden opprtunity for the NHL to set a precedence. They can justifieably and harshly punish someone who broke every player code in one single play. Will they do it? Probably not.

[davevandyk]

If he does not check his attitude he will either have a one way ticket to the East Coast Hockey League or one of the reigning "kings of the mountain" will put him into his place.

Mark Nov. 10th on the calendar... its when the Bingo Sens play the Philly Phantoms for the first time of the year. I am pretty sure Jeremy Yablonski will have something to "talk" to downie about... he's the guy that trains in the off-season as a MMA wrestler, and the guy that tatooed Neil when they fought in practice scrimmage.

[el tigre]

Please define "attempt to injure". Isn't every single fight an attempt to injure? Clark's hit on Bell was an attempt to injure. It was clean but it he sure meant to hurt the guy.

I laugh at the NHL's attempts to mete out justice. They'll suspend a guy one day and ignore the exact same infraction the next day.

If Downie threw that hit during the World Juniors, we'd all be applauding him for being a great Canadian. Steve Downie is the product of our system of hockey. He has been promoted and praised as a physical player. When he flirts with a dirty hit, we give him a little suspension. Three days later, we pat him on the butt and tell him to get out there and mix it up.

Downie's really no different than the great Canadian himself - Gordie Howe. We smile and joke about how Mr. Hockey threw his elbows around. Yet, Downie throws an elbow, McAmmond gets knocked out and we cover our mouths in horror. "Something must be done!". As if.

There isn't a team, coach or player in the NHL who applauds Downie's actions. There's a big difference between giving someone a sore jaw and trying to end somebody's ability to ever play the game again (or even function as a human being). He went waaay beyond "flirting" with a dirty hit and everybody knows it. Players have a pretty good idea where the line is, and I would submit that you cannot find a single one who thinks Downie didn't cross it.

[davevandyk]

Please define "attempt to injure". Isn't every single fight an attempt to injure? Clark's hit on Bell was an attempt to injure. It was clean but it he sure meant to hurt the guy.

I laugh at the NHL's attempts to mete out justice. They'll suspend a guy one day and ignore the exact same infraction the next day.


big diff between a fight and what downie did. When you drop the gloves, you know the potential for injury and are basically waiving that.

Let me just say this, when a guy like Ian Laperriere from the Avs says that downie will get what's coming to him if he (Ian) ever gets to face him... this tells me that its not just an Ottawa-reaction to the hit. Everybody in the league knows this was a BRUTAL hit.

[cdnputter]

big diff between a fight and what downie did. When you drop the gloves, you know the potential for injury and are basically waiving that.

Let me just say this, when a guy like Ian Laperriere from the Avs says that downie will get what's coming to him if he (Ian) ever gets to face him... this tells me that its not just an Ottawa-reaction to the hit. Everybody in the league knows this was a BRUTAL hit.

You're right it's a huge difference between choosing to stand up and fight, and going behind the net and having some a-hole run you through the boards.

Laperriere is saying what a lot of guys who have played with McAmmond are thinking. Dean is a good teammate, great in a dressing room and has superb skills on the ice, small wonder this incident has had such a negative reaction from the players and coaches.

[Biffm1]

This was my 1st time seeing the hit after hearing about it for 3 days on the FAN...wow, it was worse than I had imagined. this was worse than what Chris Simon did last year...C.S. can at least be understood because he retaliated, though not excused. He got 25 games...Downie should get a year...a year with no pay, no hockey, that might str8en out a few guys...Maybe send a message that this will not be tolerated.

[Leftygolfer30]

Downie's really no different than the great Canadian himself - Gordie Howe. We smile and joke about how Mr. Hockey threw his elbows around. Yet, Downie throws an elbow, McAmmond gets knocked out and we cover our mouths in horror. "Something must be done!". As if.

Please, you've seriously got to be kidding me. You actually tried to compare Steve Downie to Gordie Howe. Gordie Howe's elbows were usually thrown in the midst of a scrum in the corners - never at full speed.

I just cannot believe that you would compare these two players. I could go on but it seems to me that anyone who would make such a statement cannot know a lot about competitive hockey.:rolleyes:

[cdnputter]

Lefty, you're right, Howe never took a run at a guy from 40 feet away. His elbows were up when he was in the corner digging a puck out.

ontario.... seriously man, why would you even consider that what Downie did is acceptable?

[davevandyk]

so suspension came down today for downie and its 20 games, what you guys think??

I think its a joke of a suspension, the guys not playing in the NHL anyway, so this is like suspending a guy who is retiring, what a complete JOKE! No fine was handed out, and by the sounds of it, its not gonna be a 20 game suspension in the AHL, so basically he got NOTHING

Campbell is a JOKE and should look forward to dealing with hits like this again.

[Flog]

Guys like Scott Stevens never had to resort to that kind of crap. He was the best open-ice hitter ever and seldom took a penltly from an open-ice hit because he knew what he was doing. He wasn't trying to end a guys career (although he came close with Lindross), just wanted to put him on the bench for a while. Downie seems to be a real loose cannon. Attracting a lot of attention isn't always a good thing in hockey. I wouldn't be surprised if Downie himself has an unexpected appointment with the sandman one day very soon. He'd deserve it, too.

[laxgolf]

so suspension came down today for downie and its 20 games, what you guys think??

I think its a joke of a suspension, the guys not playing in the NHL anyway, so this is like suspending a guy who is retiring, what a complete JOKE! No fine was handed out, and by the sounds of it, its not gonna be a 20 game suspension in the AHL, so basically he got NOTHING

Campbell is a JOKE and should look forward to dealing with hits like this again.

20 games is pretty steep, and right around what Bertuzzi/Simon got. A quarter of the season is a long time to be sitting around and doing nothing. He can't even practice with the team. The punishment seems to fit the crime here and the NHL seems to finally gotten it right. The Flyers said any suspension handed out at the NHL level would be honoured by the AHL so Downie won't be eligible to play until the Flyers play game 21, sometime in November. Now we'll have to wait and see how the NHL handles the next time this happens when a higher profile player is on the hook for a head shot. Will they stick to their guns?

As an aside, Downie is eligible to play in the Flyers November 24th game against Ottawa. Here's hoping he does.

Guys like Scott Stevens never had to resort to that kind of crap. He was the best open-ice hitter ever and seldom took a penltly from an open-ice hit because he knew what he was doing. He wasn't trying to end a guys career (although he came close with Lindross), just wanted to put him on the bench for a while. Downie seems to be a real loose cannon. Attracting a lot of attention isn't always a good thing in hockey. I wouldn't be surprised if Downie himself has an unexpected appointment with the sandman one day very soon. He'd deserve it, too.

Comparing hits by Stevens to what Downie did is like comparing Top Flight XL 2000's to Pro V1's. They're both balls and look the same, but still completely different. What got Downie here is the intent to injure moreso than the actual timing of the hit. Steven's might have caught Lindros with his head down (the guy had a nasty habit of skating through zones while staring at the puck on his stick), but it was a legitimate play in the game. Downie's hit was completely unnecessary and premeditated.

[Flog]

Comparing hits by Stevens to what Downie did is like comparing Top Flight XL 2000's to Pro V1's. They're both balls and look the same, but still completely different. What got Downie here is the intent to injure moreso than the actual timing of the hit. Steven's might have caught Lindros with his head down (the guy had a nasty habit of skating through zones while staring at the puck on his stick), but it was a legitimate play in the game. Downie's hit was completely unnecessary and premeditated.


ya, that's what I was saying, you misunderstood my post. Stevens was a better checker and didn't have to leave his feet to do it. As far as Lindross goes, you're right, he dazzled himself a little too much at times and that's when Stevens would ring his bell to wake him up.

[laxgolf]

ya, that's what I was saying, you misunderstood my post. Stevens was a better checker and didn't have to leave his feet to do it. As far as Lindross goes, you're right, he dazzled himself a little too much at times and that's when Stevens would ring his bell to wake him up.

I agreed with you, I was just throwing my 2 cents in!!!

[dan_]

The suspension is junk compared with the prescendent that has been set by Colin Campbell's office. Quite frankly, Campbell is a *****. This is the kind of suspension that SHOULD have been given out, but I think it's funny that it took this situation for him to start to actually mete out punishment that fits the crime.

Downie plays on the edge, and there isn't a team in the NHL that wouldn't love to have him on their squad (except for maybe Ottawa, for the time being). It's a byproduct of having a guy like that...the line will sometimes be crossed.

[davevandyk]

20 games is pretty steep, and right around what Bertuzzi/Simon got. A quarter of the season is a long time to be sitting around and doing nothing. He can't even practice with the team. The punishment seems to fit the crime here and the NHL seems to finally gotten it right. The Flyers said any suspension handed out at the NHL level would be honoured by the AHL so Downie won't be eligible to play until the Flyers play game 21, sometime in November. Now we'll have to wait and see how the NHL handles the next time this happens when a higher profile player is on the hook for a head shot. Will they stick to their guns?

ya i posted too soon, it seems that the 20 game suspension won't take effect until he makes an NHL team's roster. Here's hoping he is either there for the game against Ottawa, or is eligible for the meeting between Philly and Binghamton, Ottawa's AHL team!!

[puttingfromtheruff]

I can't stand Downie but honestly, the game encourages and applauds violence. Because Downie miscalculates somewhat, we vilify him? How are you going to make adjustments at 30 mph to ensure a clean vs. dirty hit. Just impossible.

Playing competitive hockey my entire childhood I can tell you that there is some truth to this. You can't make adjustments, your right. But, When you skate full speed from the blue line, waiting for the player to curl around the net, you know you are going catch him in a vulnerable position and no matter how square or not you hit him, you are going to put him off his feet. Downie CLEARLY was going out to hurt him even if he was going to catch him clean. That was one BRUTAL hit especially when he put his shoulder into his head at that speed. A vast majority of the players in the league have respect for there fellow players. Miscalculation or not he has one intent in mind, DRILL HIM, and he did. Downie will get what's coming to him, either not playing in the NHL anymore, or having another player (other than McGratton/Neil) hurt him. Until then i'm going to be watching sportscentre waiting for it to occur. In my mind there is no room for that, if I was in the NHL I'd definately be looking for downies number on the ice, and I'd look to catch him with his head down.

[ontario]

Lefty, you're right, Howe never took a run at a guy from 40 feet away. His elbows were up when he was in the corner digging a puck out.

ontario.... seriously man, why would you even consider that what Downie did is acceptable?

I find Downie's hit unacceptable. I also find plenty of unacceptable actions in kid's hockey that gets reinforced with comments like "the kid's a competitor" or "he really wants to win".

My point on the Howe-Downie comparison is this - we have accepted and encouraged violent play in the Canadian game. Troglodytes like Don Cherry celebrate it. We smile and wink at players who indulge in violent, illegal play. Howe's elbows, Domi's fists (how many guys patted him on the back for his assault on Ulf Samuelsson a few seasons back).

Then something like Downie-McAmmond happens. "Oh my God, he left his feet." "Geez, he tried to hurt the guy." The hand wringing is just ridiculous. The difference between Downie's illegal hit and Neil's legal hit on Drury is infinitesimal. At the speeds they are travelling, an good hard legal hit and an illegal hit is just a matter of luck.