The Maple Leafs - The Frustration that Unites Us All

[ontario]

I've been a Leafs fan for 40 years and lately, I'm feeling like a sucker. Been drinking the Kool-Aid, buying the jerseys, paying for the $12 beers, listening to the ultimate homer of all homers on the radio (Joe Bowen). But I tell ya, I'm about a half season away from burning the sweater. There are so many guys my age who feel the same way - grew up avid Leaf fans, now no longer naive and feeling like we've had our pockets picked while simultaneously taking kicks to the groin.

Tonight, I'm watching that 3rd period and I said to my son - "they're gonna lose". This is when there were up 3-2. You could just tell when the defence started backing up on Raycroft that Ottawa's speed was simply overwhelming.

[Golfing in Ottawa]

I've been a Leafs fan for 40 years and lately, I'm feeling like a sucker. Been drinking the Kool-Aid, buying the jerseys, paying for the $12 beers, listening to the ultimate homer of all homers on the radio (Joe Bowen). But I tell ya, I'm about a half season away from burning the sweater. There are so many guys my age who feel the same way - grew up avid Leaf fans, now no longer naive and feeling like we've had our pockets picked while simultaneously taking kicks to the groin.

Tonight, I'm watching that 3rd period and I said to my son - "they're gonna lose". This is when there were up 3-2. You could just tell when the defence started backing up on Raycroft that Ottawa's speed was simply overwhelming.

Ontario, its not too late !!! Go out and buy a couple of Sens sweaters for both you and your son. I guarantee you will feel a huge weight taken off your shoulders. Show your son what it feels like to be a winner.
Join the movement to Ontarios NEW TEAM !!!!

[ontario]

Ontario, its not too late !!! Go out and buy a couple of Sens sweaters for both you and your son. I guarantee you will feel a huge weight taken off your shoulders. Show your son what it feels like to be a winner.
Join the movement to Ontarios NEW TEAM !!!!

I can *guarantee* you I will never be a Senators fan.

You know the smartest hockey fans in Canada live in Montreal. When the Habs suck, they don't go to the games. They *demand* a competitive team. On the other hand, Torontonians just can't wait to shell out $300 for a ticket to see a team that features Matt Stajan as the #2 centre.

[Hombre Lefty]

it's brilliant marketing if you look at it impartially. The leafs have swung it so we're so used to abject failure that even a whiff of possibly making the playoffs is enough to make leaf fans go nuts... that's genius - turn mediocrity into "success" all the while getting the good people of toronto to shell out the $$

let's put it this way. I am a die-hard Edmonton Oilers fan. Since the Leafs were last in the cup final, the oilers have :

- waited for 10 years to be born
- came into being as a minor league team.
- Become part of the WHA
- draft a 17 year old Mark Messier
- Trade messier for Gretzky
- join the NHL
- Get Messier back
- build thru the draft
- win several cups
- trade 99
- win another cup
- become a horrible team
- spend 10 years rebuilding
- get to the 7th game of the cup final
- become crap again
- rebuild again

and in the same time period, the Leafs have accomplished..... umm.... er.... not a thing. That's some serious bad management. The oilers retool to a cup final 3 times since 78, and the leafs haven't even made the finals once! There is no excuse except inept people at the top, from harold ballard to the present. the only exception was cliff but that was short lived

Join the movement to Ontarios NEW TEAM !!!!

umm nope, go for the third way, and root for someone with good management skills (did i hear you say Balsille?) to get a franchise in southern ontario. THAT could be your compromise solution to those of us not able to root for the sens without vomiting.

[ontario]

Hombre, you nailed it.

Remember when the ACC opened and the Leafs had that ridiculous ceremony where they were passing around that meaningless "Memories and Dreams" flag? That's what passes for winning tradition in Toronto. I was so embarassed watching that, I wanted to crawl into a hole.

When it looked like Balsille was going to buy the Preds and move them to Ontario, I was already planning out my Predators gear purchases.

[golfingoalie]

Ontario, its not too late !!! Go out and buy a couple of Sens sweaters for both you and your son. I guarantee you will feel a huge weight taken off your shoulders. Show your son what it feels like to be a winner.
Join the movement to Ontarios NEW TEAM !!!!

Sorry dude...did I miss the Sens winning something?

[dks_34]

Sorry dude...did I miss the Sens winning something?

LOL....I don't like the Sens and won't even cheer for them when they are the last Canadian Team in the playoffs but at least they made it to the playoffs.

[hogannut]

I've been a Leafs fan for 40 years and lately, I'm feeling like a sucker. Been drinking the Kool-Aid, buying the jerseys, paying for the $12 beers, listening to the ultimate homer of all homers on the radio (Joe Bowen). But I tell ya, I'm about a half season away from burning the sweater. There are so many guys my age who feel the same way - grew up avid Leaf fans, now no longer naive and feeling like we've had our pockets picked while simultaneously taking kicks to the groin.

Tonight, I'm watching that 3rd period and I said to my son - "they're gonna lose". This is when there were up 3-2. You could just tell when the defence started backing up on Raycroft that Ottawa's speed was simply overwhelming.

As I just said in the other post, they do not have enough talent to compete against the top teams. It seems the baramoter in Toronto is whether or not they will make the playoffs and if they do then it is seen as a good year. Here we are at game #1 and the only thing people talk about is what goalie is going to start and are the Leafs going to make the playoffs. For such "knowledgable" fans we sure are dumb!

The question we should be asking every year is, "can the team compete for the cup"? This is the question that is posed in pretty much EVERY OTHER CITY who has a NHL team, so why not here? The reason IMO, is there is no need to put out a team that can compete for the cup, merely compete for a playoff spot, and when you think like that you will ultimately get a middle of the road team, which is exactly what the Leafs are this year.

It's the same old cliche, there is no real urgency to put a contender out there. Of course all the monkeys at MLSE want to win, but the bottom line is they don't HAVE to like say Nashville does.

I got 2 free tickets for last night and gave them to the kids. I had a nice workout last night, had a nice dinner afterwards with the wife, and didn't have to battle 19000 people and over pay for food and drinks.

[Jaytee]

Weird, I felt the same way, I wonder how many other Leaf fans felt that way yesterday.

Its funny, when it was 3-2 with 5 minutes left, I also felt Ottawa was going to score (I would have bet on it) and that the Leafs were going to choke.

Im getting tired of cheering and supporting a team that management seriously doesnt commited to trying to win. If they are seriously trying then thats just sad. I look at the speed and talent of the Sens and then look at the Leafs, well it just pisses me off.


I've been a Leafs fan for 40 years and lately, I'm feeling like a sucker. Been drinking the Kool-Aid, buying the jerseys, paying for the $12 beers, listening to the ultimate homer of all homers on the radio (Joe Bowen). But I tell ya, I'm about a half season away from burning the sweater. There are so many guys my age who feel the same way - grew up avid Leaf fans, now no longer naive and feeling like we've had our pockets picked while simultaneously taking kicks to the groin.

Tonight, I'm watching that 3rd period and I said to my son - "they're gonna lose". This is when there were up 3-2. You could just tell when the defence started backing up on Raycroft that Ottawa's speed was simply overwhelming.

[el tigre]

Sorry dude...did I miss the Sens winning something? That would be the East Conference title.

... perhaps you were on the golf course with Mats at the time???:D

[avidgolfer]

Im getting tired of cheering and supporting a team that management seriously doesnt commited to trying to win.

You got that wrong. The Leafs management and ownership are extremely commited to winning...

Winning the "Most Profitable Franchise" award and the "Most Valuable Franchise" award...

The Sens are a good team. Leafs are bound to lose a few here and there to them during this year. I'm sure the Leafs will also win a few here and there against them too.

I'm just curious how they'll play against the other teams... like how many did they lose against Boston and Islanders (especially with their playoff lives at stake) last year? Teams they should have beaten.

[guitarman]

I'm just curious how they'll play against the other teams... like how many did they lose against Boston and Islanders (especially with their playoff lives at stake) last year? Teams they should have beaten.

I think they have improved this year just enough to win those "should win" games. And that will be the difference that puts them in the playoffs and gives them 4 or 5 extra games to play.

[Hombre Lefty]

hell all they need is a couple guys who can finish once in a blue moon in shootouts and they would've been in LAST year.

My only hope for the leafs is that Toskala isn't as bad as he's looked so far, because if Raycroft is still the horse they need to ride, then make those tee times now.

[hogannut]

I think they have improved this year just enough to win those "should win" games. And that will be the difference that puts them in the playoffs and gives them 4 or 5 extra games to play.

This is why my other "favourite" team is Detroit. Year in and year out this team contends. Yzerman retires and Shannahan moves on, no biggie there are guys to carry the orgranization forward. 26 of 30 GM's have picked Detroit to win this year. Organizations like Detroit, Jersey, Colorado, and even Ottawa give their fans hope year in and year out. With the $ MLSE generates and the fan loyalty it is an absolute joke that they put out teams like they do year after year after year!!!!:hush: :eek: :( :mad:

I get free Leaf tickets a couple of times per year, and I will take the tickets and use them, but it won't be my a$$ sitting in section 323 sipping on $10 foam and eating a $5 peice of pizza that has been sitting under a heat lamp for an hour! I'll give the seats to the kids, or friends whatever. No more....I'm done now. I supported them since I was old enough to cheer them on, and except for 2 blips on the radar in the late 70's and early 90's it's the same old thing EVERY year.:help:

I'm actually glad I'm going back to reffing in the GTHL. Hopefully I will be working and won't have to support the TV ratings, because I will watch them when they are on if there isn't anything else on. Last night for example I was watching the baseball in between the 2nd and 3rd perior. I went back to the Leaf game with 10 minutes left in the 3rd and watched the rest of the game. At least the LEafs didn't surprise me. They did EXAXTLY what I figured they'd do. This is what happens when you have a team with "average" talent. The only way a team with less talent can beat a team with more talent is if they play great AND the other team plays poorly. If the Leafs are firing on all cylinders they cannot beat a team like Ottawa if they are firing on all cylinders. THey may keep it close or whatever, but overall it will be a loss the majority of the time, which is sad and frustrating for anyone who supports them.

It was like Weir last weekend. It was exciting to watch and I was happy he won, but we all know that if Mike Weir plays TIger 10 times he will lose 8 times. He simply is not as good as Tiger. I cheered for him and was happy he won that day, but he can't do it day in and day out.

[guitarman]

I'll give the seats to the kids, or friends whatever.:help:

I want to be your friend.

[leftintherough]

It was like Weir last weekend. It was exciting to watch and I was happy he won, but we all know that if Mike Weir plays TIger 10 times he will lose 8 times. He simply is not as good as Tiger. I cheered for him and was happy he won that day, but he can't do it day in and day out.

True; but I don't care! He whipped Tiger's butt and I'll enjoy that for the moment as it looks like its going to be a long winter!

Just like when the leafs beat the sens the first time this season. We know its not going to last long.

[laps]

Go SENS Go! Globe and Mail says "Leafs Lose" why not "SENS win"!!

[guitarman]

why not "SENS win"!!

cause no one cares.

[leftintherough]

cause no one cares.

'xactley !!!!

[laps]

Your right no one cares about good hockey - not around here anyways!

As a thank you to Sundin, the Leafs should trade him to a team that has a chance of winning.

[LowPost42]

Go SENS Go! Globe and Mail says "Leafs Lose" why not "SENS win"!!

Because Leafs Lose is a nice piece of alliteration.

And no one cares about the Sens.

[laps]

If no one cared about the the Sens, there would be indifference. Leafs fans have the 'hate" on the Sens that goes beyond a healthy rivalry.

True hockey fans would appreciate the skill of the best players no matter the team. Habs fans are like that, they will always appreciate good hockey, no matter the team.

[Haste]

Do what I did... just start watching the Raptors :p They are a much more exciting team to watch.

[guitarman]

If no one cared about the the Sens, there would be indifference. Leafs fans have the 'hate" on the Sens that goes beyond a healthy rivalry.

True hockey fans would appreciate the skill of the best players no matter the team. Habs fans are like that, they will always appreciate good hockey, no matter the team.

I appreciate good hockey no matter what the team except the sens.

[leftintherough]

If no one cared about the the Sens, there would be indifference. Leafs fans have the 'hate" on the Sens that goes beyond a healthy rivalry.

True hockey fans would appreciate the skill of the best players no matter the team. Habs fans are like that, they will always appreciate good hockey, no matter the team.


The "hate" on for the sens has been aquired gradually based on posts here by some poop distriburbing sens fans. ( exclusions offered to my sens loving buds out in TGN land, you know who you are!)

There was a total indifference going, and I actually felt sorry for the sens after the 4 game sweep fiasco.

[davevandyk]

The "hate" on for the sens has been aquired gradually based on posts here by some poop distriburbing sens fans. ( exclusions offered to my sens loving buds out in TGN land, you know who you are!)

There was a total indifference going, and I actually felt sorry for the sens after the 4 game sweep fiasco.

ah the old 4 game sweep...when was that again? I gotta give leaf fans a LOT of credit, they have a great memory of the past and more importantly for leaf fans, a very poor memory for the present and much more recent past.

BTW - am I on the good list or bad list?? :)

[guitarman]

Are the leafs really as bad as they say and the sens really as good? Most battles between the sens and the leafs are pretty close. I'm pretty sure that most games between them last year went in to overtime. If the leafs are as bad as the sens fans say and the sens are as good as they boast then I would think that the sens should be obliterating the leafs on the ice every time. The difference between the leafs beating the sens right now is someone solid in goal. The leafs have the offence. And if there was a cujo or belfour in net the defense wouldn't matter quite as much. It would be enough to atleast beat the sens.


BTW - am I on the good list or bad list?? :)

50/50:D No sens fan is perfect

[Kace]

Are the leafs really as bad as they say and the sens really as good? Most battles between the sens and the leafs are pretty close. I'm pretty sure that most games between them last year went in to overtime. If the leafs are as bad as the sens fans say and the sens are as good as they boast then I would think that the sens should be obliterating the leafs on the ice every time. The difference between the leafs beating the sens right now is someone solid in goal. The leafs have the offence. And if there was a cujo or belfour in net the defense wouldn't matter quite as much. It would be enough to atleast beat the sens.

I believe they said last night that prior to the game, the Sens were 12-2-2 vs. the Leafs in the last 16 games.

[guitarman]

I believe they said last night that prior to the game, the Sens were 12-2-2 vs. the Leafs in the last 16 games.

I think I was listening to the stats about the past overtimes which there seem to be quite a few. If I'm not mistaken.

[Kace]

I think I was listening to the stats about the past overtimes which there seem to be quite a few. If I'm not mistaken.

That could be possible...don't know how many of those wins were in OT.

Needless to say, I just purchased the Centre Ice package so I don't have to watch the horrible coverage of the Leafs games and I can watch my team out in Calgary. :D

[guitarman]

That could be possible...don't know how many of those wins were in OT.

Needless to say, I just purchased the Centre Ice package so I don't have to watch the horrible coverage of the Leafs games and I can watch my team out in Calgary. :D

I get one advantage as a leaf fan. No extra cost to watch the games on TV. Its gonna be quite the bonus some day when they are a winning team.

[Kace]

I get one advantage as a leaf fan. No extra cost to watch the games on TV. Its gonna be quite the bonus some day when they are a winning team.

Yeah, I think that there is something like 75 Leafs games on if you get TSN, Sportsnet and CBC.

It'd be nice (but probably not practical) if the NHL would sign TV deals like the NFL. You get to see a lot of games outside of your region.

[cdnputter]

let's put it this way. I am a die-hard Edmonton Oilers fan. Since the Leafs were last in the cup final, the oilers have :

- waited for 10 years to be born
- came into being as a minor league team.
- Become part of the WHA
- draft a 17 year old Mark Messier
- Trade messier for Gretzky
- join the NHL
- Get Messier back
- build thru the draft
- win several cups
- trade 99
- win another cup
- become a horrible team
- spend 10 years rebuilding
- get to the 7th game of the cup final
- become crap again
- rebuild again

and in the same time period, the Leafs have accomplished..... umm.... er.... not a thing. That's some serious bad management. The oilers retool to a cup final 3 times since 78, and the leafs haven't even made the finals once! There is no excuse except inept people at the top, from harold ballard to the present. the only exception was cliff but that was short lived

You are now my best friend at this board. I was lucky enough to grow up in Edmonton during their heyday and it was great. If they lost to Calgary or anyone else, the fans demanded Sather find an answer, or demanded that Pocklington open the wallet to get a decent late season addition veteran, Ken Linesman for instance.

The Leafs don't seem to care what their fans want, they have a captive audience at the ACC and loads of bucks coming from their cable/satellite contracts, not to mention their marketing department that continues to sell the most tired and worn out jerseys in hockey.

Instead of whinging here and there, if the Leaf fans want some change, stop going to the ACC, don't buy Molson products if you do go, don't purchase any of the team gear. Heck organize a protest march from City Hall to the ACC protesting the atrocites that MLG has inflicted upon Toronto.

[davevandyk]

Are the leafs really as bad as they say and the sens really as good? Most battles between the sens and the leafs are pretty close. I'm pretty sure that most games between them last year went in to overtime. If the leafs are as bad as the sens fans say and the sens are as good as they boast then I would think that the sens should be obliterating the leafs on the ice every time. The difference between the leafs beating the sens right now is someone solid in goal. The leafs have the offence. And if there was a cujo or belfour in net the defense wouldn't matter quite as much. It would be enough to atleast beat the sens.



50/50:D No sens fan is perfect

I really think the goalies in Toronto aren't THAT bad! I think the defense of the leafs are really bad. They are slow, more offensively gifted than defensively and don't seem to work together all that great.

This is my opinion of Raycroft as an outsider who doesn't have him letting them down every game. I think for about 45 minutes, the guy looks like he is a top 10 goalie, however for the other 15 minutes he looks like he shouldn't be anybody's back-up. I think this is really why Toronto loses a lot of games closely. I might be wrong, but i can remember a lot of games where the leafs were badly outplayed, yet they were only losing 2-1 or 3-2.

I might be wrong about this, i don't get to watch too many leaf games.

[guitarman]

I really think the goalies in Toronto aren't THAT bad! I think the defense of the leafs are really bad. They are slow, more offensively gifted than defensively and don't seem to work together all that great.

This is my opinion of Raycroft as an outsider who doesn't have him letting them down every game. I think for about 45 minutes, the guy looks like he is a top 10 goalie, however for the other 15 minutes he looks like he shouldn't be anybody's back-up. I think this is really why Toronto loses a lot of games closely. I might be wrong, but i can remember a lot of games where the leafs were badly outplayed, yet they were only losing 2-1 or 3-2.

I might be wrong about this, i don't get to watch too many leaf games.

Maybe tuskola (is that how you spell it.) will be the answer. He looks good so far. But you're right. Its going to take one hell of a goalie to shine night in and night out with the slow leaf defense. Ottawa really makes the defense look slow.

What is with these penalties. Are they trying to give this game to the sens?

[Hombre Lefty]

You are now my best friend at this board. I was lucky enough to grow up in Edmonton during their heyday and it was great.

I went about it a totally different way. I grew up way up in northern ontario, and my uncle had a satellite dish (very unusual in those days) and we watched iTV edmonton which had every Oilers game on. My prized posession is a picture of my uncle buying his house from Grant Fuhr (my uncle lived in spruce grove AB).

But here's the difference with the leafs. I lived in Edmonton in the worst years, ,id 90's when they never made the playoffs and Kelly Buchberger and Doug Weight were their best players. (!!!). They were still successful financially, but you just knew that with those cups and banners everywhere, that medicre would just not cut it, and they would get better somehow. It's utterly inexcusable that a town 1/8 the size of Toronto could retool and get to the cup finals with a fraction of the resources, and the leafs with all the resources in the world could not - and then try to spin it every year like it's a success to just almost be good.. I'm not saying win the cup, but at least get a whiff!