hoganben
Jan 5, 2008, 03:52 PM
From: hoganben (http://forums.prospero.com/dir-app/bbCard/profile.asp?webtag=golfequip&uid=1795807987) Jan-1 9:51 am To: thayneil (http://forums.prospero.com/dir-app/bbCard/profile.asp?webtag=golfequip&uid=375852163) (63 of 87) 233171.63 (http://forums.prospero.com/golfequip/messages?msg=233171.63) in reply to 233171.62 (http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=golfequip&msg=233171.56#a62) I am suspicious -those Hot List types of things always seem to be fixed. Awards spread amongst manufacturers. How did Wishon get on the list? Buddies with some of the guys? Cash in an envelope (worked with our former Prime Minister -$300,000)Promise to buy advertising? Or perhaps GD was just trying to be inclusive? Same with GM Clubtests -always seem to be phoney. Winners spread amongst manufacturers. Hey, why not give guys clubs and see if they actually score lower.
PS -who's the guy who comes up with the "phrases" to describe clubs in the club test. The club felt like butter. It made the ball dance of the green like Jerry Rice on Dances with the Stars.
Ok actual quotes (clubtest 04 -don't ask me why i keep all these old magazines)
-"It's the black sheep of the set"/ "It won't win any beauty contests ...But this is a test not a pagent". / and my favourite "The Big Bertha is more forgiving than Hilary Clinton"
Why don't they go to courses and ask the general public which clubs they think are hot
From: TWishon1 (http://forums.prospero.com/dir-app/bbCard/profile.asp?webtag=golfequip&uid=424045989) Jan-2 10:05 am To: hoganben (http://forums.prospero.com/dir-app/bbCard/profile.asp?webtag=golfequip&uid=1795807987) (66 of 87) 233171.66 (http://forums.prospero.com/golfequip/messages?msg=233171.66) in reply to 233171.63 (http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=golfequip&msg=233171.63) HoganBen
You know, the thing I like about your post is that you are suspicious. And darn well right you should be whenever any magazine or web site does anything that smacks of some ranking or rating, because of the potential influence that advertising revenue can have on such things.
How have any of my designs made their way on the Hot List? Well, first of all, I haven't bought an ad in Golf Digest since the winter of 2003, and I have no plans (nor that kind of money!!) to start doing so at any time in the immediate future.
I will say that I have lobbied Golf Digest to change their "judging criteria" over the past several years - chiefly to reduce or get rid of that dumb judging category they call "BUZZ". ANd they have - three years ago it was 30% of the overall ranking, today I think it is down to 10%. So that reduction in Buzz, which means "how much do you advertise this model and how many retail stores carry it" is not as important in the rating system as it once was. So the reduction in this area, in which a company like mine gets a Fat ZERO in points, has helped my designs have a little more chance on the Hot List.
Other than that, I think that the presence of my Search books among golfers has helped make some who are chosen to be on the rating committee take a little more notice of what I design than before. And since there is no hype, no lies, and no BS in the books, I think this has helped us be taken a little more seriously for what we do in our work. I say this because I remember back in the 2003 and 2004 years of submitting designs to Hot List, when the clubs were returned it was easy to tell they had NOT EVEN BEEN HIT. Starting in 2005, when the clubs were returned you could tell that SOME had been hit. There is no question with so many clubs submitted, the people who have to hit them and vote cannot possibly hit them all - so they arenaturally going to be drawn to hit the clubs they have SEEN or HEARD of - Hence, the BUZZ factor.
But I think that in the end, when a company like mine has to start out in this Hot List event with zero Buzz points, for a model to make it means that at least some on the rating committee actually hit the club(s) and thought enough of them to vote them to the next level of judging.
Of course, on the other hand, I will say that ANY such "competition" among club models is a crap shoot these days if for no other reason than the clubs can never be submitted in a form that would even be close to be properly fit for the people who hit them and make judgments. So it's definitely possible to make a nice design and if the length/loft/lie/shaft/totalweight/swingweight/grip isn't close to what the hitters need, it can be tossed on the reject pile quickly.
But at the end of the day, at the age of 57 with more design experience under my belt than any human living on the planet, I know if I think one of my designs is pretty good, then it is. And proudly with no sense of BS I will tell you that the designs in my custom line now do represent the best work I have ever done in my life.
So I think that counts for something too.
TOM
PS -who's the guy who comes up with the "phrases" to describe clubs in the club test. The club felt like butter. It made the ball dance of the green like Jerry Rice on Dances with the Stars.
Ok actual quotes (clubtest 04 -don't ask me why i keep all these old magazines)
-"It's the black sheep of the set"/ "It won't win any beauty contests ...But this is a test not a pagent". / and my favourite "The Big Bertha is more forgiving than Hilary Clinton"
Why don't they go to courses and ask the general public which clubs they think are hot
From: TWishon1 (http://forums.prospero.com/dir-app/bbCard/profile.asp?webtag=golfequip&uid=424045989) Jan-2 10:05 am To: hoganben (http://forums.prospero.com/dir-app/bbCard/profile.asp?webtag=golfequip&uid=1795807987) (66 of 87) 233171.66 (http://forums.prospero.com/golfequip/messages?msg=233171.66) in reply to 233171.63 (http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=golfequip&msg=233171.63) HoganBen
You know, the thing I like about your post is that you are suspicious. And darn well right you should be whenever any magazine or web site does anything that smacks of some ranking or rating, because of the potential influence that advertising revenue can have on such things.
How have any of my designs made their way on the Hot List? Well, first of all, I haven't bought an ad in Golf Digest since the winter of 2003, and I have no plans (nor that kind of money!!) to start doing so at any time in the immediate future.
I will say that I have lobbied Golf Digest to change their "judging criteria" over the past several years - chiefly to reduce or get rid of that dumb judging category they call "BUZZ". ANd they have - three years ago it was 30% of the overall ranking, today I think it is down to 10%. So that reduction in Buzz, which means "how much do you advertise this model and how many retail stores carry it" is not as important in the rating system as it once was. So the reduction in this area, in which a company like mine gets a Fat ZERO in points, has helped my designs have a little more chance on the Hot List.
Other than that, I think that the presence of my Search books among golfers has helped make some who are chosen to be on the rating committee take a little more notice of what I design than before. And since there is no hype, no lies, and no BS in the books, I think this has helped us be taken a little more seriously for what we do in our work. I say this because I remember back in the 2003 and 2004 years of submitting designs to Hot List, when the clubs were returned it was easy to tell they had NOT EVEN BEEN HIT. Starting in 2005, when the clubs were returned you could tell that SOME had been hit. There is no question with so many clubs submitted, the people who have to hit them and vote cannot possibly hit them all - so they arenaturally going to be drawn to hit the clubs they have SEEN or HEARD of - Hence, the BUZZ factor.
But I think that in the end, when a company like mine has to start out in this Hot List event with zero Buzz points, for a model to make it means that at least some on the rating committee actually hit the club(s) and thought enough of them to vote them to the next level of judging.
Of course, on the other hand, I will say that ANY such "competition" among club models is a crap shoot these days if for no other reason than the clubs can never be submitted in a form that would even be close to be properly fit for the people who hit them and make judgments. So it's definitely possible to make a nice design and if the length/loft/lie/shaft/totalweight/swingweight/grip isn't close to what the hitters need, it can be tossed on the reject pile quickly.
But at the end of the day, at the age of 57 with more design experience under my belt than any human living on the planet, I know if I think one of my designs is pretty good, then it is. And proudly with no sense of BS I will tell you that the designs in my custom line now do represent the best work I have ever done in my life.
So I think that counts for something too.
TOM