What irons on the shelves are forged by Endo or Miura?

[DC003]

If a normal guy like me was to walk in GT or NB looking for a set forged by Endo....will I be looking at the wrong place? I am at a point where I am thinking why spend $1k on a new set and have them fitted but instead build my set from scratch with just the best out there.

Which N/A company right now has a specific lineup forged by Endo or Miura? (not counting older models)

From what I can tell, some OEMs stuff are purely made in China....the forging and finish is done poorly at best (and I am being nice about it).

[racmbs]

If a normal guy like me was to walk in GT or NB looking for a set forged by Endo....will I be looking at the wrong place? I am at a point where I am thinking why spend $1k on a new set and have them fitted but instead build my set from scratch with just the best out there.

Which N/A company right now has a specific lineup forged by Endo or Miura? (not counting older models)

From what I can tell, some OEMs stuff are purely made in China....the forging and finish is done poorly at best (and I am being nice about it).

No OEM's are forged by Miura anymore....Titleist, Nike, Bridgestone, Mizuno and Callaway offer forgings by Endo.

If Miura is what you want and you are located in Canada, then here are some dealers you can contact for more info:

http://www.miuragolf.com/dealermap.asp#Ontario

[Weirfan]

correct above post but I will ask why????

here is an exerpt from another forum that relates


Rather than create some analogy, I'll just directly compare the processes and people can have the knowledge of what actually goes on to make their determinations.

Forging is not a complicated process-in fact in metal forming, it's been around the longest. Their is no mystery to it that would make a difference in golf clubs. No secret Samurai process to make the metal harder. No Damascus steel that can cut thru all other swords. Just a ingot of carbon steel alloy, a big, heavy machine and tool and die. Grain structure for performance? It doesn't matter. Remember that the ingot starts out as cast, then all of the molecular bonds are broken thru the intense pressure and resultant heat that allows the metal to be reformed to the tool and die. How many times the material is reformed and how well the tool and die are formed will determine who consistent the shape and weight of the heads are. Tom added another step in the "regular" process so that the weight and shape would be more consistent and require LESS human grinding, which is where inconsistencies can come in.

Then the heads are CNC Machined to make the faces flat and to do the scorelines and artwork. I don't know if other foundries do other CNC machining than this for topline and leading edge...Perhaps they do.

Tour players really don't know much about equipment when it comes to production processes or understanding what does and doesn't make a difference on the performance side. This isn't just me having this idea, but from talking to people that have worked intimately with different tour players and hearing their stories.

I thought the reason that Tiger had his forgings done in Japan was so that whatever company he was signed to could reproduce the Mizunos he grew up playing? Could be wrong on that. In any case, I'm sure that it impresses Tiger or whatever Tour player there is if the company says, "Your irons were forged in Japan by Samurai Masters that have been doing this for 500 years."

Yes, you get what you pay for. If you want super perfect cosmetics that will last right up until you take them to the range the first time and the feeling that you are playing something special because they are "from Japan", then pay that top dollar for the Japanese forgings. Just don't expect better performance because of it. Expect better performance because of who actually designed the head, if you're able to know who that person actually is.

Thems the facts...

OK, I'm blue now....

Happy New Year to All.



As one who spent many years in the forging industry in the design, manufacture, machining, & quality assurance, (outside the golf industry & more related to aerospace, oil & gas, & automotive). I agree with the bulk of your statements pertaining to the forging process. 1020/10230 steel as used by most golf forgings has no magic qualities. It is a soft steel that simply improves die life. (aside of soft feel - another can of worms)

I will take exception to the grain size/structure statement though. While it may not be important to the golf head performance it is indeed important in many high stress applications.such as aircraft tail hooks, landing gear, & jet engine engine impeller hubs. The grain size & grain flow direction (strength in direct of load/shear forces) is one of the primary reasons for engineers selecting a forging verses a casting.

The grain size & grain flow are often specified in the customer's quality assurance specifications.

there are some great forgings out there in either componet or oem....if you must have Japanese forged then contact Bryant Brothers at Myclubmaker.com.

he carries several top line Japaneese brands like Chakura, Miura , fourteen , Epon as well as all the other great ones like Wishon, Kzg, whatever.

his prices are great and he is a fantastic fitter and builder althouh this is tough to do over the phone if you want a custom fit.

tell him I referred you

also if you look hard enough you can find Nakashima and other forgings and get the components only ....Nak forged are fantastic

[rgk5]

If a normal guy like me was to walk in GT or NB looking for a set forged by Endo....will I be looking at the wrong place? I am at a point where I am thinking why spend $1k on a new set and have them fitted but instead build my set from scratch with just the best out there.

Which N/A company right now has a specific lineup forged by Endo or Miura? (not counting older models)

From what I can tell, some OEMs stuff are purely made in China....the forging and finish is done poorly at best (and I am being nice about it).

The original Nike blades, Bridgestone J33/J36, some Titleists. A few others that escape me.

[Carlton]

You can try and find a set of the 2004 Ltd. Edition TM RAC CB's (not the combo set). Those are forged by Miura.

[rgk5]

Scott:

Mizuno at last count was only using Chou in Japan for their forgings.

[racmbs]

Scott:

Mizuno at last count was only using Chou in Japan for their forgings.

Bless you..... :D

I wasn't aware of that, thanks dude!!

[Duffer19]

Dont forget Callaway X-Forged (by Endo.)

[ginrin]

Scott:

Mizuno at last count was only using Chou in Japan for their forgings.
Not all Mizunos are made at Chou, I believe only the MP series are made at Chou.

[rgk5]

Gin:

Yes, I was referring to the MP series and should have said so.

Bless you..... :D

I wasn't aware of that, thanks dude!!

I hear they might start making forged Tour Blackberries. http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/innocent/innocent0006.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/freesmiley.php?smiley=innocent/innocent0006.gif)

[DC003]

It's all about cosmetic man. Functionility wise, it's the same. The looks are important. Again for people like me, a set of irons are like toys. I don't want to settle for anything but the best. I also don't like to have something very common as well which is probably why I will not get a TM club for years to come. I am not expecting performance enhancements.

Looks and just the finish of the clubs are so important. I find that most irons these days get neglated. The finish of most conventional clubs you see in GT are so bad. You can tell there's no care being taken with them. Feel some of their grooves and look at the grindings.

Anyhow, for all clubs and irons, there's hardly any resale value for them. It's like buying a car.

I find that Miura North America is somewhat behind the Japan Miura Giken offered. Heck, Miura in Japan provide direct fitting for players instead of putting money in the pockets of individual club fitters here.

People often have the misunderstanding that OEMs sold in Japan is more expensive. That's partially not true. Looking at their standard of living. If you purchase persay a regular set of Taylor R7 TPs there, u can afford a set of Miuras. People here make it seem like it's a big deal.

I see most 3-pw sets in GT selling for $999.99. Is it that far of a stretch to get a set for $1200 (fitting included)? Please do the math.

[DC003]

It's all about cosmetic man. Functionility wise, it's the same. The looks are important. Again for people like me, a set of irons are like toys. I don't want to settle for anything but the best. I also don't like to have something very common as well which is probably why I will not get a TM club for years to come. I am not expecting performance enhancements.

Looks and just the finish of the clubs are so important. I find that most irons these days get neglated. The finish of most conventional clubs you see in GT are so bad. You can tell there's no care being taken with them. Feel some of their grooves and look at the grindings.

Anyhow, for all clubs and irons, there's hardly any resale value for them. It's like buying a car.

I find that Miura North America is somewhat behind the Japan Miura Giken offered. Heck, Miura in Japan provide direct fitting for players instead of putting money in the pockets of individual club fitters here.

People often have the misunderstanding that OEMs sold in Japan is more expensive. That's partially not true. Looking at their standard of living. If you purchase persay a regular set of Taylor R7 TPs there, u can afford a set of Miuras. People here make it seem like it's a big deal.

I see most 3-pw sets in GT selling for $999.99. Is it that far of a stretch to get a set for $1200 (fitting included)? Please do the math.

[laxgolf]

Aren't Cally X-Tours Endo forged?

[Titleist75]

Nothing beats the look of a set of nice Nike Forged blades with the paint fill removed. yum yum... :D