Fred Couples - 2009 US President Cup team captain

[Bellyhungry]

Saw this news at Mr. T's blog....

It would be interesting to see the new team makeup and dynamic. In the past, it was always centered around 'You don't say no when Jack asks you to play' and 'We've got to win it for Jack'.

[GQuizzle]

I think Freddy might get a similar response... he's generally well liked by the guys on Tour (from what my TV watching a$$ can tell) and fans seem to like him as well.

[Focker Singh]

He`ll be totally respected but he wont get the "lets win it for Fred" line. Fred`s not even close to Jack`s legendary status. I do think Fred will be an awesome captain for sure!

[Bellyhungry]

I suspect the event will be glam, suave, low-key, and with lots of groupies.

I think Freddie is a great choice to take the team to a different direction.

[Pingnut]

They might as well be saying win it for Captain Crunch! or whoever the big Sponor is... Fun, but totally useless event. :p

[GQuizzle]

...the event will be glam, suave, low-key...

Glam and low-key at the same time?! :confused:

[Rusty]

After reading the latest Golf Digest interview with Fred Couples, IMO he would be a disaster as a Ryder Cup or President's Cup captain.

I agree with those who see these events as essentially exhibitions, but they have been imbued with a certain prestige, rightly or wrongly. And the players seem to take the contests seriously. Which is the problem with Fred as a captain - he has been, and still is, perceived as rarely taking anything seriously.

His golf career is a monument to underachievement with only sustained success in silly season events. If he had been healthier he might have achieved more - but Fred never did take the hard road of focused effort even when he was healthy. His unorthodox swing would place a lot of demands on even the best conditioned athlete's back. Perhaps if he had re-made his swing to address the longevity issue he would have had a longer and more productive career - but that would have gone against his basic nature.

In his interview, he seems to express some regret about his past decisions wrt his personal life and indicates he is now more responsible and "grown up". But, for the most part, in the past, when the going got tough, Fred got going. By his own admission, confronting problems and seeking solutions is not Fred's way.

So, what is it that a captain brings to these exhibitions? Do they motivate the players? Perhaps, if they have a certain standing in the pantheon of great players.

Do they make tough decisions about who to play and who to sit? Yes....and they have to confront egos that have blinders on.

Do they have to employ strategy and planning in response to an opponent' s decisions? Yes, and they have to plan ahead and weigh intangible factors such as confidence, course conditions, player strengths and weaknesses, physical conditioning and personalities.

Do they have to appeal to the corny aspects of national pride and historical perspective? Yes, if it helps to get the team focused and on track.

Could Fred Couples do any of these things? Possibly....but it would require a major makeover of his well established public persona. Is that public persona the real Fred Couples? Only he can answer that question. But it is the only Fred that we, the public, know.

Envy and respect are not the same thing. I suspect that a lot of players envy Fred's easy going persona and his popularity. But compared to what most of them have had to do to achieve their station in the game, I would think most would not respect the path that Fred chose. Freddie is a good guy, great to hang out with, but a leader? Nah...he's a follower.

Compare Fred to Faldo as captains:

Faldo's players might not like him, may have had run-ins with him as a player, but I doubt that you would find any that did not admire his dedication and work ethic - and would work hard to earn his respect.

Fred? Hey, they would probably be glad to go for a beer and discuss University of Houston sports success. But work hard to win for him? Why? He never did.

[Bellyhungry]

Glam and low-key at the same time?! :confused:

Think of the team being made up by a whole bunch of doped up players, you will get the visual :cool:

[Big Shooter]

I can see it now, a bunch of 'rowdies' like Jim Furyk, Davis Love III, Stewart Cink, Zach Johnson, and other GREAT golfers, but BORING personalities! :$:(

...and NONE of THIS....

http://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/images/articles/1062.jpg

[Merlot]

After reading the latest Golf Digest interview with Fred Couples, IMO he would be a disaster as a Ryder Cup or President's Cup captain.

Fred? Hey, they would probably be glad to go for a beer and discuss University of Houston sports success. But work hard to win for him? Why? He never did.

Wow. :eek: It was his back.:$ :rofl:

[MP33]

Saw this news at Mr. T's blog....

It would be interesting to see the new team makeup and dynamic. In the past, it was always centered around 'You don't say no when Jack asks you to play' and 'We've got to win it for Jack'.

I can't remember any of one the big American names saying no to the last several Ryder cup Captains (Lehman, Sutton, Crenshaw, Strange etc.). I doubt they would say no to Fred. Wasn't the last time Jack was captain of a Ryder cup team like 1987??

[Bellyhungry]

Apparently Greg Norman will be the captain for the International Team.

Can't wait to see how the layback Couples counters the competetive Norman.

[under4hrs]

Don't mistake Freddie's easy going nature with a lack of desire to win. Granted - his outer persona is nowhere near that of a Tiger or a Rory, but he wants it as much as anyone. I would have loved to see him makeover his game and accomplish more, but that is not who he is - which is what made him popular in the first place.

Might you see somebody turn down a President's Cup invite because it is Freddie - might happen...but that will not be a reflection of Freddie, that is a reflection of the event itself I believe.

[Smully]

After reading the latest Golf Digest interview with Fred Couples, IMO he would be a disaster as a Ryder Cup or President's Cup captain.

I agree with those who see these events as essentially exhibitions, but they have been imbued with a certain prestige, rightly or wrongly. And the players seem to take the contests seriously. Which is the problem with Fred as a captain - he has been, and still is, perceived as rarely taking anything seriously.

His golf career is a monument to underachievement with only sustained success in silly season events. If he had been healthier he might have achieved more - but Fred never did take the hard road of focused effort even when he was healthy. His unorthodox swing would place a lot of demands on even the best conditioned athlete's back. Perhaps if he had re-made his swing to address the longevity issue he would have had a longer and more productive career - but that would have gone against his basic nature.

In his interview, he seems to express some regret about his past decisions wrt his personal life and indicates he is now more responsible and "grown up". But, for the most part, in the past, when the going got tough, Fred got going. By his own admission, confronting problems and seeking solutions is not Fred's way.

So, what is it that a captain brings to these exhibitions? Do they motivate the players? Perhaps, if they have a certain standing in the pantheon of great players.

Do they make tough decisions about who to play and who to sit? Yes....and they have to confront egos that have blinders on.

Do they have to employ strategy and planning in response to an opponent' s decisions? Yes, and they have to plan ahead and weigh intangible factors such as confidence, course conditions, player strengths and weaknesses, physical conditioning and personalities.

Do they have to appeal to the corny aspects of national pride and historical perspective? Yes, if it helps to get the team focused and on track.

Could Fred Couples do any of these things? Possibly....but it would require a major makeover of his well established public persona. Is that public persona the real Fred Couples? Only he can answer that question. But it is the only Fred that we, the public, know.

Envy and respect are not the same thing. I suspect that a lot of players envy Fred's easy going persona and his popularity. But compared to what most of them have had to do to achieve their station in the game, I would think most would not respect the path that Fred chose. Freddie is a good guy, great to hang out with, but a leader? Nah...he's a follower.

Compare Fred to Faldo as captains:

Faldo's players might not like him, may have had run-ins with him as a player, but I doubt that you would find any that did not admire his dedication and work ethic - and would work hard to earn his respect.

Fred? Hey, they would probably be glad to go for a beer and discuss University of Houston sports success. But work hard to win for him? Why? He never did.:rofl: Rusty, you sure hit the nail on the head,Dedication, N stayin, power Couples is a 7, Faldo is a 10, Tens devour Sevens,,:rofl: :rofl:

[dekker]

After reading the latest Golf Digest interview with Fred Couples, IMO he would be a disaster as a Ryder Cup or President's Cup captain.

I agree with those who see these events as essentially exhibitions, but they have been imbued with a certain prestige, rightly or wrongly. And the players seem to take the contests seriously. Which is the problem with Fred as a captain - he has been, and still is, perceived as rarely taking anything seriously.

His golf career is a monument to underachievement with only sustained success in silly season events. If he had been healthier he might have achieved more - but Fred never did take the hard road of focused effort even when he was healthy. His unorthodox swing would place a lot of demands on even the best conditioned athlete's back. Perhaps if he had re-made his swing to address the longevity issue he would have had a longer and more productive career - but that would have gone against his basic nature.

In his interview, he seems to express some regret about his past decisions wrt his personal life and indicates he is now more responsible and "grown up". But, for the most part, in the past, when the going got tough, Fred got going. By his own admission, confronting problems and seeking solutions is not Fred's way.

So, what is it that a captain brings to these exhibitions? Do they motivate the players? Perhaps, if they have a certain standing in the pantheon of great players.

Do they make tough decisions about who to play and who to sit? Yes....and they have to confront egos that have blinders on.

Do they have to employ strategy and planning in response to an opponent' s decisions? Yes, and they have to plan ahead and weigh intangible factors such as confidence, course conditions, player strengths and weaknesses, physical conditioning and personalities.

Do they have to appeal to the corny aspects of national pride and historical perspective? Yes, if it helps to get the team focused and on track.

Could Fred Couples do any of these things? Possibly....but it would require a major makeover of his well established public persona. Is that public persona the real Fred Couples? Only he can answer that question. But it is the only Fred that we, the public, know.

Envy and respect are not the same thing. I suspect that a lot of players envy Fred's easy going persona and his popularity. But compared to what most of them have had to do to achieve their station in the game, I would think most would not respect the path that Fred chose. Freddie is a good guy, great to hang out with, but a leader? Nah...he's a follower.

Compare Fred to Faldo as captains:

Faldo's players might not like him, may have had run-ins with him as a player, but I doubt that you would find any that did not admire his dedication and work ethic - and would work hard to earn his respect.

Fred? Hey, they would probably be glad to go for a beer and discuss University of Houston sports success. But work hard to win for him? Why? He never did.
What players like is another player and Freddie has been a source of inspired play on some Rydercup and Presidential cup moments.
Faldo will be batting uphill against his personna in leading the Internationals and his row with Monty is a perfect example.
A team rallies around a man they like more than one they grudgingly respect, in my opinion.

[MickDuff]

After reading the latest Golf Digest interview with Fred Couples, IMO he would be a disaster as a Ryder Cup or President's Cup captain.

Fred? Hey, they would probably be glad to go for a beer and discuss University of Houston sports success. But work hard to win for him? Why? He never did.

Have to say I agree completely, that interview changed my opinion of him. He's always been portrayed as this suave, laid-back California cool dude, but he comes across as lazy and slow-witted. Maybe he'd work as an assistant captain, but as we've seen in the past, the "I'm gonna let the team manage itself" approach is disasterous, and would lead to a serious drubbing for the US of A. Captains need to lead and make tough decisions.

I don't think he even wants it, he's just being thrust into the role.

[under4hrs]

If you missed it, try to find Nicklaus in the booth with NBC yesterday at the Honda. When asked about captain style, Jack stressed letting the team manage itself - who they play with, how they play, etc. Wasn't a fan of Couples talking about Jordan & Williams as his assistants...

[Rusty]

I caught some of the Nicklaus interview with Johnny Miller and Jim Nantz (Freddie's University of Houston room mate).

I noted that Nicklaus was rather non-commital on the question posed by Nantz: "What kind of captain would Fred be?" It appeared to me that Jack let the air out of the balloon with his less than enthusiastic response and his honest "wait and see" attitude.

In the past, Nicklaus has been cautious when it comes to speculative types of questions but is definitive, and outspoken, when he has formulated his opinion/position. Look at his support for equipment limits (ball distance) to limit the impact of length on the game. Or, his unpopular opposition to the use of carts for partially disabled professional golfers, i.e., the Casey Martin lawsuit.

So, I think it is quite telling that Jack basically sat on the fence when asked the question. I'm confident that Fred's flippant suggestions that Michael Jordan and Robin Williams would be on his list of assistants caused Jack's eyes to roll more than once.

Rusty

[under4hrs]

Wasn't Jim Nantz - was Dan Hicks...

[Rusty]

Thanks....I wasn't paying as close attention as I should have.

I stand corrected.

Rusty

[Smully]

I think, Freddie,is a poor, choice, Motivation, Hello, soon as I have a bad match,Oh my back, Oh my sore A$$,Shows ta Goya, that popularity, rules .

[loverofgolf]

Works for me but he won't be a ryder cup captain I hope.

[Golden Bear]

I think, Freddie,is a poor, choice, Motivation, Hello, soon as I have a bad match,Oh my back, Oh my sore A$$,Shows ta Goya, that popularity, rules .Spoken like a know-it-all who has never experienced back pain.

Not sure why you have it in for Couples, but you seem to be on an obsessive anti-Fred campaign.

[loverofgolf]

Spoken like a know-it-all who has never experienced back pain.

Not sure why you have it in for Couples, but you seem to be on an obsessive anti-Fred campaign.

It is hard to say if he has put in as much effort as other great players. Sometimes laid back attitudes are really masking burning desires. Is this true with Couples? Not sure but I don't think he would be a good Ryder Cup Captain.

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say he wouldn't want to be either or atleast he would volunteer.

[gbrgolf]

"After reading the latest Golf Digest interview with Fred Couples, IMO he would be a disaster as a Ryder Cup or President's Cup captain."

Hey Rusty,

Obviously you have never met or know Fred Couples....I think/know any player who knows Fred Couples would never question his desire to win. Playing in pain is not fun and he has had to do that for a long time.
Don't forget that he was was the best player in the world for a couple of years in spite of a nagging back injury.
He also tends to have a very dry sense of humour and likes to "trash" himself. I think that many of his comments get taken out of context. Don't forget all the wins at the Ryder/Presidents and World Cups.
Fred is not an easy guy to get to know, and not many people really do know him, certainly not me! but I have spent enough time watching him practice....when he can to realize how hard he works on his game and how much he wants to win.
Everyone on Tour works on their game, I was at Riviera this year and the two last guys on the range on Monday and Tuesday were David Duval and Fred Couples...yet that doesn't get reported!
Don't believe everything you read...players really respect Fred and heck...really...what does a captain really do! IMHO! players play and whoever plays the best.. win's!
gbr

[disenor]

Perhaps some on here should check on Fred’s accomplishments before casting opinions about his desire to compete. There are those here that would call a duck lazy because they only see what’s on the surface. Even Tiger stated that Fred has as much desire to win as anyone on tour. The true travesty is that he will more than likely not captain a ryder cup team but yet Paul Azinger, Hal Sutton and the like have been given that honor. Fred Couples demonstrates a true desire that every professional should strive for. He could have just as easily retired due to his injures or followed the example set forth by countless other pros and just waited to join the champion’s tour. Yet at 48 and after a year of rehab trying to strengthen the back that has hampered a otherwise stellar career, he has played six events, making 5 cuts and earning almost 230,000 dollars while the current ryder cup captain has played 4 events with 1 cut and a mere 28,000. If this man is not worthy to captain either or both of the US squads I don’t know who is. Love him or hate him he has been a tour presence for more than 20 yrs. He is still a force on the PGA tour and still commands some of the largest galleries. The game of golf has benefited from Fred and I for one feel that he deserves every accolade afforded the best in the world.


D

[gbrgolf]

Perhaps some on here should check on Fred’s accomplishments before casting opinions about his desire to compete. There are those here that would call a duck lazy because they only see what’s on the surface. Even Tiger stated that Fred has as much desire to win as anyone on tour. The true travesty is that he will more than likely not captain a ryder cup team but yet Paul Azinger, Hal Sutton and the like have been given that honor. Fred Couples demonstrates a true desire that every professional should strive for. He could have just as easily retired due to his injures or followed the example set forth by countless other pros and just waited to join the champion’s tour. Yet at 48 and after a year of rehab trying to strengthen the back that has hampered a otherwise stellar career, he has played six events, making 5 cuts and earning almost 230,000 dollars while the current ryder cup captain has played 4 events with 1 cut and a mere 28,000. If this man is not worthy to captain either or both of the US squads I don’t know who is. Love him or hate him he has been a tour presence for more than 20 yrs. He is still a force on the PGA tour and still commands some of the largest galleries. The game of golf has benefited from Fred and I for one feel that he deserves every accolade afforded the best in the world.


D
wow! well said!

[braithwaite]

I agree, Freddy I think will be a great captian and like it was said still has the mantalilty to win. I am sure he will make a great team to compete with the Eurpeans.

[Rusty]

Gawain:

You are correct. I do not know Fred couples personally. That is why I qualified my post as "IMO"...it is an opinion, only. I also said that only Fred Couples knows the "real" Fred Couples.

So, what sources do I have for forming my opinions? All of them are second-hand, subject to editorial interventions and with agendas (hidden or personal) that we, the public, are unaware of. But even as laid back a character as Fred Couples can not be unaware of the readership and size of audience that Golf Digest has. So, I would expect that even Fred would take some care with that interview and treat it seriously - which I believe he did because of the personal issues revealed that could have come only from him, voluntarily.

The Golf Digest story was authored by Jaime Diaz, one of the most respected golf writers working today - you don't get access to the people he interviews if you are a hack that misrepresents or distorts. So, I do not always believe everything I read, but I do consider the source - some are better than others. Is the interview entertaining? Yes, it is. But it isn't a fawning puff piece - some warts are displayed, some less than flattering facts about the subject's personal life made it past the editorial scissors. Does that increase the credibility of the story and the writer? Yes, in my opinion.

But the topic was Fred's captainship of the US President's Cup team and whether he was a good choice. The first clue that Fred might be a little different, and suspect, as a captain, was his seemingly off-hand comment about his choice of "assistants". After some rather lukewarm responses from at least one icon of the game (Nicklaus) and probably lots of others that we are not aware of, Fred did a small backpedal. But, he actually tried to justify and explain his rationale for thinking that Mr. Jordan and Mr. Williams might add something to "team chemistry". Taking his televised comments at face value, it appears that in Fred's mind it wasn't a joke - which is probably what most observers from the "golf establishment" (yes, there is one and they have a lot of influence when it comes to these "exhibitions") thought it was.

So, how will we know whether Fred was a "good" captain or not? The facts, rumours and hearsay to form an opinion will not be available until the whole thing is over. Even then it will still just be a matter of opinion, win or lose.

After all, I'm sure that there is at least one person who thinks that Hal Sutton was the best Ryder Cup captain ever. But, of course, that would just be their opinion.

Rusty