Clones -Vs- Brands?

[HackNSLice]

Well its decided Dubya's in the house for another four years! So lets focus our attention on something else! :rofl:

Clones Vs Brands

Notice I say Clones and not knockoffs or ripoffs, I want to know what everyone's opinion on the issue is. Im new to the game so when I bought my 1st clubs I bought it from local sports store spending a reasonable amount on a set by Wilson. Im in my early twenties so I dont have a $40.000 income to spend on Callaway's Taylormade's and so forth. After a few rounds the golf bug bit me and I've looked at getting a set of clubs that will suit my game. I've been looking at getting irons from a manufacturer in the states http://pinemeadowgolf.com (http://pinemeadowgolf.com/) now i've seen this thread in a few other golf forums which just end up being an all out flame war! So now my question is:

1) Anyone here use clones?
2) Anyone have any rants/raves about their clones?
3) Anyone recommend maybe a local retailer?

[Ego Woods]

Well its decided Dubya's in the house for another four years! So lets focus our attention on something else! :rofl:

Clones Vs Brands

Notice I say Clones and not knockoffs or ripoffs, I want to know what everyone's opinion on the issue is. Im new to the game so when I bought my 1st clubs I bought it from local sports store spending a reasonable amount on a set by Wilson. Im in my early twenties so I dont have a $40.000 income to spend on Callaway's Taylormade's and so forth. After a few rounds the golf bug bit me and I've looked at getting a set of clubs that will suit my game. I've been looking at getting irons from a manufacturer in the states http://pinemeadowgolf.com (http://pinemeadowgolf.com/) now i've seen this thread in a few other golf forums which just end up being an all out flame war! So now my question is:

1) Anyone here use clones?
2) Anyone have any rants/raves about their clones?
3) Anyone recommend maybe a local retailer?
I actually viewed that site (pinemeadows) earlier in the season looking for a Odyssey 2-ball clone because the price was so much cheaper......I decided against it, but later on I did see one of their putters that they advertised (the 4-ball putter) and tested it out.....to say the least, that 4ball putter was nowhere near comfortability, feel and smoothness of the Odyssey putter....after that I realized that u definitely do get what u pay for......

I know most of the brand name clubs are out of a lot of golfer's price range, that's why it's not bad sometimes to get used brand name clubs, or clubs that are clearanced priced...

[alien270]

pinemeadow claims that they get there heads from same foundries as the major companies... buying a putter online is kind of tough since its more of a personal preference and feeling. im considering purchasing some clone irons and woods
to see how good it is!

but lets all be honest here its not the arrow its the indian!

[Focker Singh]

Clones Vs Brands

Notice I say Clones and not knockoffs or ripoffs, I want to know what everyone's opinion on the issue is. Im new to the game so when I bought my 1st clubs I bought it from local sports store spending a reasonable amount on a set by Wilson. Im in my early twenties so I dont have a $40.000 income to spend on Callaway's Taylormade's and so forth. After a few rounds the golf bug bit me and I've looked at getting a set of clubs that will suit my game. I've been looking at getting irons from a manufacturer in the states http://pinemeadowgolf.com (http://pinemeadowgolf.com/) now i've seen this thread in a few other golf forums which just end up being an all out flame war! So now my question is:

1) Anyone here use clones?
2) Anyone have any rants/raves about their clones?
3) Anyone recommend maybe a local retailer?

Great question, once the golf bug bites you, its over, you're poisoned for life! Ever check out older models or 2nd hand clubs? Sometimes you can get discontinued name brand clubs for half the price. 2nd hand clubs are also a good money saver until you find a set that you'll keep for a longer period of time.
I've never used "cloned" clubs and don't plan to. Visually, you sometimes can't even tell if they're real or not. (ie, knockoffs from China or Korea) but when you hit them, they suck.
I guess it all depends on how specific you are. Since you just started you may not be looking for specifics but since you've been biten by the golf bug, my suggestion is to spend a little, maybe around $400-600 and get a good set (you don't need $900 clubs) and use them for a few years. You'll be glad you did, rather than spending a couple hundred here and there just to find out they're not that great. Good luck!

[alien270]

heads are made same foundries
only difference is one is 500 and it says callaway
the other says acer and its 200

shafts you can choose what brand you want
you choose what grip and you get it customized to your size
beats going to golftown paying over 500 for a mid end club set to be customized
ie tommy armours

[Shadow]

Having been a clubmaker for about 17 years I have had experience with all forms of club heads. Clones are knockoffs. Frequently, poor imitations of the real thing, but sometimes quite playable, depending on how the clubmaker fits and matches the heads with appropriate shafts. Some say that because they are made in the same foundry, they are same with different names stamped on them. Possibly, but highly unlikely. Just because they may be made in the one of the few foundrys that make heads, does not mean that they are made from the same "molds," and certainly does not mean that they were made with the same alloys.

A better choice than the clones and the OEM's, are reputable component companies like Wishon Golf, Golfsmith, Golfworks, SMT, Ashton, Bang, Alpha Reaction, who research and design original component heads. For example, Tom Wishon is an industry leader in shaft and head, design and analysis. The good products that he and the others produce, are as playable as any OEM, at a fraction of the price. Check out his 550C and 550B's at www.wishongolf.com. If assembled and matched by a competent clubmaker, you will be very pleased with the clubs. Having disassembled many sets of OEM irons, Hogan, Titleist, Callaways, etc., you would be appaled at the quality control and some of the things that I have seen, to the point where you might say, "Never, again!". There is very little wrong with the design of the OEM heads; it's just the assembly that is sometimes sub-standard.

[Tintin]

heads are made same foundries
only difference is one is 500 and it says callaway
the other says acer and its 200



Alien. I beg to differ. Please prove me wrong. Not all clubheads come from the same foundries. That just would not cut it with the OEM'S.

[Tintin]

Having been a clubmaker for about 17 years I have had experience with all forms of club heads. Clones are knockoffs. Frequently, poor imitations of the real thing, but sometimes quite playable, depending on how the clubmaker fits and matches the heads with appropriate shafts. Some say that because they are made in the same foundry, they are same with different names stamped on them. Possibly, but highly unlikely. Just because they may be made in the one of the few foundrys that make heads, does not mean that they are made from the same "molds," and certainly does not mean that they were made with the same alloys.

A better choice than the clones and the OEM's, are reputable component companies like Wishon Golf, Golfsmith, Golfworks, SMT, Ashton, Bang, Alpha Reaction, who research and design original component heads. For example, Tom Wishon is an industry leader in shaft and head, design and analysis. The good products that he and the others produce, are as playable as any OEM, at a fraction of the price. Check out his 550C and 550B's at www.wishongolf.com (http://www.wishongolf.com/). If assembled and matched by a competent clubmaker, you will be very pleased with the clubs. Having disassembled many sets of OEM irons, Hogan, Titleist, Callaways, etc., you would be appaled at the quality control and some of the things that I have seen, to the point where you might say, "Never, again!". There is very little wrong with the design of the OEM heads; it's just the assembly that is sometimes sub-standard.
Hmmm. Shadow. The name sounds very familiar. Here is a quote from a very knowledgeable source in the field.

That statement is not true – the clone sellers do NOT use the same foundries as the OEM brands because for one, the foundries that do the big name OEM heads that I work with have a policy of not ever doing that type of production work. The reason is obvious in that if they do this, then they severely risk their business with the OEMs and they do not want to do that because of the volume they can do in orders from the big name OEM companies. Also, the performance is not identical very much of the time, and for sure, the durability is generally not nearly as good with the foundries that the big name OEM companies use.

[Mok]

Hmmm. Shadow. The name sounds very familiar. Here is a quote from a very knowledgeable source in the field.

That statement is not true – the clone sellers do NOT use the same foundries as the OEM brands because for one, the foundries that do the big name OEM heads that I work with have a policy of not ever doing that type of production work. The reason is obvious in that if they do this, then they severely risk their business with the OEMs and they do not want to do that because of the volume they can do in orders from the big name OEM companies. Also, the performance is not identical very much of the time, and for sure, the durability is generally not nearly as good with the foundries that the big name OEM companies use.
this reminds me of Nike clothing in China, I have heard rumours that factories in China produce "extras" and then sell it on the streets of China and make extra money. It's the same material, same workers even from the same factory. I'm sure the official policy of the foundries is to not do that type of production work, but who knows, there is an underground market for everything.

[Tintin]

All right then. Clones no but components yes. So here are a few components companies that have warehouses here in Canada and some of them in the greater Toronto area. Here goes:

http://www.cosmogolf.ca/
www.customclubshop.com (http://www.customclubshop.com)
www.golfquip.com (http://www.golfquip.com)
www.golfsmith.com (http://www.golfsmith.com)
www.golfworks.com (http://www.golfworks.com)
www.sgdistributing.com (http://www.sgdistributing.com)
http://www.golfoundry.com/
[/url]


[url="http://www.cosmogolf.ca/"] (http://www.cosmogolf.ca/)

[Special_K]

Having been a clubmaker for about 17 years I have had experience with all forms of club heads. Clones are knockoffs. Frequently, poor imitations of the real thing, but sometimes quite playable, depending on how the clubmaker fits and matches the heads with appropriate shafts. Some say that because they are made in the same foundry, they are same with different names stamped on them. Possibly, but highly unlikely. Just because they may be made in the one of the few foundrys that make heads, does not mean that they are made from the same "molds," and certainly does not mean that they were made with the same alloys.

A better choice than the clones and the OEM's, are reputable component companies like Wishon Golf, Golfsmith, Golfworks, SMT, Ashton, Bang, Alpha Reaction, who research and design original component heads. For example, Tom Wishon is an industry leader in shaft and head, design and analysis. The good products that he and the others produce, are as playable as any OEM, at a fraction of the price. Check out his 550C and 550B's at www.wishongolf.com (http://www.wishongolf.com/). If assembled and matched by a competent clubmaker, you will be very pleased with the clubs. Having disassembled many sets of OEM irons, Hogan, Titleist, Callaways, etc., you would be appaled at the quality control and some of the things that I have seen, to the point where you might say, "Never, again!". There is very little wrong with the design of the OEM heads; it's just the assembly that is sometimes sub-standard.
I agree with what Shadow is saying. Original and reputable component companies research their own technologies, putting their efforts into developing a good product. Clone and knockoff companies put their efforts into cosmetics and creating a product that looks the most like name brand products.

Some of the knockoff's I have seen coming out of China are quite scary. My friend recently brought back a set of "Ping G2's". For the equivalent of $200 CDN, you can get a leather Ping Staff Bag, a set of G2 irons (which look almost identical to the real thing), G2 driver 3W and 5W. Cosmetically, you could probably fool 70% of the golfers out there. But that's all it is, cosmetics. The driver had a graphite shaft of unknown brand, but painted of course to mimic the stock Ping shaft. I was scared to swing that club because the shaft had the stiffness of a Ladies flex. Then I picked up the 3W to discover that it swung to about a stiff flex. Different irons make different sounds and feel totally different. There is no consistency amoung the set.

Being very anal about my equipment, things like inconsistency would drive me nuts. I could tell the difference right away that all the effort was put into making a set of clubs that LOOKED like G2's, but did not perform like them nor a regular consistent set of golf clubs.

Thus, beware of companies who put their efforts into cosmetics, rather than technology. Just because an iron LOOKS like a name brand one, it doesn't mean it shares any of the same technology. Like Shadow said, go for reputable component companies.

[Mule56]

Having been a clubmaker for about 17 years I have had experience with all forms of club heads. A better choice than the clones and the OEM's, are reputable component companies like Wishon Golf, Golfsmith, Golfworks, SMT, Ashton, Bang, Alpha Reaction, who research and design original component heads. Having disassembled many sets of OEM irons, Hogan, Titleist, Callaways, etc., you would be appaled at the quality control and some of the things that I have seen, to the point where you might say,
Shadow,
Am I glad to see a club maker on here. I usually get it from people I play with about my Snake Eye's, Killer Bee's, and KZG. Even after they see the ball flight. I keep hearing if you hit my (you insert the big name) you could blah, blah, blah.
Funny thing is young guy at our club, that's playing the Canadian tour, hit my driver on the range one day and now he's up his sponsors a** to get his club up to par with my Snake Eye Viper Ti. I'm not saying that those big names are not good. But they are most certainly not the end all be all. I've hit most of them and I'm real happy with what I got. The price makes it even better.
Please be sure to share your club making thoughts with us. More people should know the difference between component and clone. Most certainly the should know about proper fitting and myth about the costs.
Mule

[chiantibro]

Can you tell me what OEM stands for? Thanks...

[Mule56]

Can you tell me what OEM stands for? Thanks...Original Equipment Manufacturers. Long form for brand names.
Mule

[Ego Woods]

Having been a clubmaker for about 17 years I have had experience with all forms of club heads. Clones are knockoffs. Frequently, poor imitations of the real thing, but sometimes quite playable, depending on how the clubmaker fits and matches the heads with appropriate shafts. Some say that because they are made in the same foundry, they are same with different names stamped on them. Possibly, but highly unlikely. Just because they may be made in the one of the few foundrys that make heads, does not mean that they are made from the same "molds," and certainly does not mean that they were made with the same alloys.

A better choice than the clones and the OEM's, are reputable component companies like Wishon Golf, Golfsmith, Golfworks, SMT, Ashton, Bang, Alpha Reaction, who research and design original component heads. For example, Tom Wishon is an industry leader in shaft and head, design and analysis. The good products that he and the others produce, are as playable as any OEM, at a fraction of the price. Check out his 550C and 550B's at www.wishongolf.com (http://www.wishongolf.com/). If assembled and matched by a competent clubmaker, you will be very pleased with the clubs. Having disassembled many sets of OEM irons, Hogan, Titleist, Callaways, etc., you would be appaled at the quality control and some of the things that I have seen, to the point where you might say, "Never, again!". There is very little wrong with the design of the OEM heads; it's just the assembly that is sometimes sub-standard.
Shadow,
Am I glad to see a club maker on here. I usually get it from people I play with about my Snake Eye's, Killer Bee's, and KZG. Even after they see the ball flight. I keep hearing if you hit my (you insert the big name) you could blah, blah, blah.
Funny thing is young guy at our club, that's playing the Canadian tour, hit my driver on the range one day and now he's up his sponsors a** to get his club up to par with my Snake Eye Viper Ti. I'm not saying that those big names are not good. But they are most certainly not the end all be all. I've hit most of them and I'm real happy with what I got. The price makes it even better.
Please be sure to share your club making thoughts with us. More people should know the difference between component and clone. Most certainly the should know about proper fitting and myth about the costs.
Mule
Wow, really some great info here from many experienced players and club makers....looking forward to getting any questions I have answered here.....:thumbs_up

[Tintin]

Shadow,
I'm not saying that those big names are not good. But they are most certainly not the end all be all. Mule
Mule. OEM clubheads are excellent but you must keep in mind that they are mass produced :money: and what you see on Tour is not what you get. All pros have their clubs tweaked in some way.(lead added,frequency matched clubs, spined clubs, face angles reworked and on and on). And all these tweaks are made by experienced clubmakers.

[Mule56]

Mule. OEM clubheads are excellent but you must keep in mind that they are mass produced :money: and what you see on Tour is not what you get. All pros have their clubs tweaked in some way.(lead added,frequency matched clubs, spined clubs, face angles reworked and on and on). And all these tweaks are made by experienced clubmakers.Bingo !!!!!

[Mok]

interesting! i never knew that...but seeing some of what you guys have in your golf bags makes me think twice about what to buy next time!!!

[Shadow]

While they look like normal, off the rack clubs, the ones the pros play are so perfectly fitted to their swing characteristics, that if we were to have this work done, it would cost a fortune both in time and particularly $$$$$. And they should be perfectly fitted, as their livelihood depends on the equipment, except for the ones who have huge endorsement contracts.

Like buying a new car or a house, buying an OEM set of clubs can be quite emotional. We tend to look at the back of the club and if it is appealing/pretty, there is an increased chance of a sale being made. If Tiger, or Ernie, or Mike plays the clubs, we want them!! However, these clubs may not be the best for your game. If buying a set of OEM's there is a chance that they may play just great for you, but if clubs are fitted to you, OEM's or components, by a competent clubmaker, IMO, there is an increased chance of the clubs playing better for you. Simple example: Played with a friend who had forged cavities, would hit his irons, let's say, on a line 15' right of the hole and the ball would hook 30' left of the hole. Every shot, same pattern-start right, end up left. We checked his lie angles. Too upright. I flattened them 2.5 degrees and guess what? Ball starts 30' right of target and draws back to target. Was he excited! As part of the purchase I strongly believe that a shop should check the lie angles for you. It is so important. Sorry for babbling.

[Tintin]

Keep babbling my dear Shadow. I like it. What's the name of your 2nd guard dog again?:)

[Ego Woods]

While they look like normal, off the rack clubs, the ones the pros play are so perfectly fitted to their swing characteristics, that if we were to have this work done, it would cost a fortune both in time and particularly $$$$$. And they should be perfectly fitted, as their livelihood depends on the equipment, except for the ones who have huge endorsement contracts.

Like buying a new car or a house, buying an OEM set of clubs can be quite emotional. We tend to look at the back of the club and if it is appealing/pretty, there is an increased chance of a sale being made. If Tiger, or Ernie, or Mike plays the clubs, we want them!! However, these clubs may not be the best for your game. If buying a set of OEM's there is a chance that they may play just great for you, but if clubs are fitted to you, OEM's or components, by a competent clubmaker, IMO, there is an increased chance of the clubs playing better for you. Simple example: Played with a friend who had forged cavities, would hit his irons, let's say, on a line 15' right of the hole and the ball would hook 30' left of the hole. Every shot, same pattern-start right, end up left. We checked his lie angles. Too upright. I flattened them 2.5 degrees and guess what? Ball starts 30' right of target and draws back to target. Was he excited! As part of the purchase I strongly believe that a shop should check the lie angles for you. It is so important. Sorry for babbling.
by all means, pls keep babbling........I'm reading every word you type.......:D .........it's great to read tips from a professional club maker......

[Jaydog]

i'm starting to think that i should have got fitted for clubs before buying my set. oh well, next time. ;)

[QUICKME]

hey jaydog,

if you're a beginner its not worth it for you to get fitted ,you haven't refined your swing yet. hack around until you get more consistant than invest inot something you'll take care of. If you think of it you'll need to replace your grip in 3 to 4 seasons so thats when you really want to debate, "should i blow $8 per grip" or replace the set completely?

quick

[Jaydog]

thanks for the suggestion, quickme.

[Shadow]

Keep babbling my dear Shadow. I like it. What's the name of your 2nd guard dog again?:)
Kelee and he is a monster. One does not want to mess with him.

BTW: Is TIN synonymous for CAN?

[Tintin]

hey jaydog,

if you're a beginner its not worth it for you to get fitted ,you haven't refined your swing yet. hack around until you get more consistant than invest inot something you'll take care of. If you think of it you'll need to replace your grip in 3 to 4 seasons so thats when you really want to debate, "should i blow $8 per grip" or replace the set completely?

quick
Maybe but I would suggest to at least have your clubs checked and adjusted for lie. Most places will do this for approx $4 per club. A good investment imo and it takes an important variable out of the equation.

[DQ Daddy]

:confused: While they look like normal, off the rack clubs, the ones the pros play are so perfectly fitted to their swing characteristics, that if we were to have this work done, it would cost a fortune both in time and particularly $$$$$. And they should be perfectly fitted, as their livelihood depends on the equipment, except for the ones who have huge endorsement contracts.

Like buying a new car or a house, buying an OEM set of clubs can be quite emotional. We tend to look at the back of the club and if it is appealing/pretty, there is an increased chance of a sale being made. If Tiger, or Ernie, or Mike plays the clubs, we want them!! However, these clubs may not be the best for your game. If buying a set of OEM's there is a chance that they may play just great for you, but if clubs are fitted to you, OEM's or components, by a competent clubmaker, IMO, there is an increased chance of the clubs playing better for you. Simple example: Played with a friend who had forged cavities, would hit his irons, let's say, on a line 15' right of the hole and the ball would hook 30' left of the hole. Every shot, same pattern-start right, end up left. We checked his lie angles. Too upright. I flattened them 2.5 degrees and guess what? Ball starts 30' right of target and draws back to target. Was he excited! As part of the purchase I strongly believe that a shop should check the lie angles for you. It is so important. Sorry for babbling.

You guys have definately given me some good info to digest, I was ready to buy a new set of irons and then you guys spring all this info around. I am definately going to reconsider my options. Great discussion :)

[Bogeybog]

Greetings, my first post here although I do belong to several other forums. I am enjoying the discussions on this board.

I couldn't agree more with Shadow. For me, I have absolutely zero interest in owning OEM clubs with the possible exception of a putter (which I do and would re-grip in any event). OEM companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars on marketing and endorsements (guess who pays for the priviledge of having a swoosh on their clubs just like Tiger?) to sell you mass produced and assembled (albeit with good q.c.) clubs that are built for an "average" golfer and not you! In most cases the shafts and grips they use are outsourced from other manufacturers (True Temper, UST, Gof Pride etc) to fit their price points.

Major component Cos. produce components that are just as good and some cases superior in quality and design and at a much better price. They are produced to be matched with other components to fit you, your game and each other. A good clubmaker (of even a hobbyist or ho as myself) can ensure that the components are carefully measured for proper fit, weight matched, spine aligned, FLO'd and frequency matched to ensure consistency from club to club. How many golfers do you know that have a favourite club (their 5i,7i or whatever) in their bag? With properly built clubs each club becomes your favourite giving you consistency from shot to shot (now if I could only achieve that with my swing :sad: ).

JAYDOG, I couldn't disagree with Quickme more!!! If you are trying to learn the game, I think it is vital that you have the proper fitting equiptment. Golf is hard enough to learn without having the proper "tools" or clubs that at least fit you. You are more likely asking for frustration if you are trying to learn using a set of "beaters" that fit someone else (or maybe no one at all). If you wanted to learn how to drive a race car, would you take a beat up old Ford Bronco to Mosport, or would you learn in a sports car that had decent handling and suspension?

[Bogeybog]

Shadow, just curious, are you on the Ottawa golfresource board as well? Or is it just sheer coincidence that there is another SA swinging clubmaker in Ottawa? Wish there was a Canadian SA board to compare notes. I find the Single-Axis Forum is slowly being taken over by 'CG"ers.

[Shadow]

Shadow, just curious, are you on the Ottawa golfresource board as well? Or is it just sheer coincidence that there is another SA swinging clubmaker in Ottawa? Wish there was a Canadian SA board to compare notes. I find the Single-Axis Forum is slowly being taken over by 'CG"ers.

Yes, I am a member of the Ottawa Golf forum, and the Single Axis forum, and the Natural Golf forum, and the Swinglikemoe forum, and some of the technical forums, as well. Helps to be retired.

In the back of my mind I have always wanted to have a little trournament in Ottawa for single axis players only, even LPG'ers. :) There are probably a fairly large number of us now in the metro Ottawa area and it would be interesting to meet and share SA stories or lies.

Perhaps in the spring.

[Mok]

Greetings, my first post here although I do belong to several other forums. I am enjoying the discussions on this board.
welcome aboard, good to have you here!

[Tintin]

matched to ensure consistency from club to club. How many golfers do you know that have a favourite club (their 5i,7i or whatever) in their bag? With properly built clubs each club becomes your favourite giving you consistency from shot to shot


Easier said than done. Just curious? How would you go about that? Swingweighted matched? MOI matched? Single frequency matched? Balance point matched?

[Bogeybog]

Easier said than done. Just curious? How would you go about that? Swingweighted matched? MOI matched? Single frequency matched? Balance point matched?As I mentioned, I am just a ho building clubs for myself and my wife and a couple of friends. I spine the shafts using a spine finder to find NBP, then weigh components for swingweight matching. I then align the Flat Line Oscillation (FLO) to target and assemble clubs to correct length.

Trained (and better equiped) clubmakers will also frequency match the shafts to ensure single consistent frequency and/or use an NF2 to measure and match shaft deflection. Tuttleman will soon be releasing his plans for the NF4 which apparently will enable shaft profiling to enable building a consistent set. (I would love to have and am toying with the idea of building an NF2 but the time and money would probably be better spent with several woodworking projects that have piled up and I have been putting off... what with golf, ho-ing, golf, darn the seasons's over-time to build some clubs and head to the dome... and oh yeah, work!). Tom Wishon also sells a period counter and software to enable MOI matching of clubs.

Any of these methods, (and TinTin, I somehow suspect that you would agree) IMHO and from personal experience not just research, done with care and attention using quality components, will produce a much more consistent and better performing set of clubs then any OEM clubs you can buy off the shelf for any price.

[Bogeybog]

welcome aboard, good to have you here!Thanks Mok, good to be here. I only found this board a couple of days ago. Great to see a forum for T.O. golfnuts and friends! :D

[Bogeybog]

Yes, I am a member of the Ottawa Golf forum, and the Single Axis forum, and the Natural Golf forum, and the Swinglikemoe forum, and some of the technical forums, as well. Helps to be retired.

In the back of my mind I have always wanted to have a little trournament in Ottawa for single axis players only, even LPG'ers. :) There are probably a fairly large number of us now in the metro Ottawa area and it would be interesting to meet and share SA stories or lies.

Perhaps in the spring.Shadow, great idea! Please keep me posted. Would love to be able to attend (I do have some business in Eastern Ontario, maybe I can combine some pleasure with business, or at least have an excuse for SWMBO :$ ).

[Queen of the Beach]

Having been a clubmaker for about 17 years I have had experience with all forms of club heads. Clones are knockoffs. Frequently, poor imitations of the real thing, but sometimes quite playable, depending on how the clubmaker fits and matches the heads with appropriate shafts. Some say that because they are made in the same foundry, they are same with different names stamped on them. Possibly, but highly unlikely. Just because they may be made in the one of the few foundrys that make heads, does not mean that they are made from the same "molds," and certainly does not mean that they were made with the same alloys.

A better choice than the clones and the OEM's, are reputable component companies like Wishon Golf, Golfsmith, Golfworks, SMT, Ashton, Bang, Alpha Reaction, who research and design original component heads. For example, Tom Wishon is an industry leader in shaft and head, design and analysis. The good products that he and the others produce, are as playable as any OEM, at a fraction of the price. Check out his 550C and 550B's at www.wishongolf.com (http://www.wishongolf.com/). If assembled and matched by a competent clubmaker, you will be very pleased with the clubs. Having disassembled many sets of OEM irons, Hogan, Titleist, Callaways, etc., you would be appaled at the quality control and some of the things that I have seen, to the point where you might say, "Never, again!". There is very little wrong with the design of the OEM heads; it's just the assembly that is sometimes sub-standard.
Thanks for the great information Shadow. And welcome to the forum.
Based on reading your post and some other great posts on this discussion forum, I would not buy a clone golf club or golf set anymore even if I considered it at one point.

[Tintin]

Any of these methods, (and TinTin, I somehow suspect that you would agree) IMHO and from personal experience not just research, done with care and attention using quality components, will produce a much more consistent and better performing set of clubs then any OEM clubs you can buy off the shelf for any price.
re:Your suspicions.:) I have all these toys and can help you build a NF2.
You can also use Dave T's method for MOi matching. All you need is a swingweight scale.

[Bogeybog]

re:Your suspicions.:) I have all these toys and can help you build a NF2.
You can also use Dave T's method for MOi matching. All you need is a swingweight scale.Tintin, thank you for the generous offer. I might just take you up on that!:D

[Tintin]

All right then. Clones no but components yes. So here are a few components companies that have warehouses here in Canada and some of them in the greater Toronto area. Here goes:

http://www.cosmogolf.ca/
www.customclubshop.com (http://www.customclubshop.com/)
www.golfquip.com (http://www.golfquip.com/)
www.golfsmith.com (http://www.golfsmith.com/)
www.golfworks.com (http://www.golfworks.com/)
www.sgdistributing.com (http://www.sgdistributing.com/)
http://www.golfoundry.com/




In my haste I forgot the following web site: www.konagolfsales.com (http://www.konagolfsales.com)

[countclub]

try elta golf 110 ironside / south of steeles east of markham rd / unit 14 lots of choices irons woods [metals] shafts grips / supplies good prices