Has Mats played his last game?

[davepratt]

Sources are telling AM 640 Toronto's Bill Watters that Mats Sundin will not play the final two games of the season. Sundin has been suffering through a minor groin tear for the past few weeks.

[golfpal]

Lets hope so......:hyper:

[BowmanvilleJim]

Who's Mats Sundin?

[sharkhark]

I hope not. Players should hang up the skates before they are washed up, but not when they are still healthy contributors.
He is not a young ovechkin or malkin, but he is still an above average team player. People talked about the great effect of a older gary roberts on the youth of the team, but when the same thing can be done with sundin all the anti sundin people come out.

He has always taken a hit by alot of fans, called floater, called non physical, called selfish etc etc blah blah blah.
Anyone who sits down and looks at what he has done points wise and assists wise cannot argue.
Now look back at alot of years with linemates that would be lucky to make the third line on another team.....then go look at gretzky in oiler days and check out who his linemates were....
finnish sandwhich with Jari Kurri and Esa Tikkanen!
Tomas Sandstrom and Tony Granato!
Luc Robitaille!

Or sundin with ...
Alexei Kovalev and Tomas Plekanec?????????

How about goals in the playoffs...no I am not including assists because the unselfish sundin rocks in that department. That is why last season when he dried up in last ten games people blasted him while overlooking that his actual production was just as high as usual due to a ton of assists.

Look at the company he is in for goals in playoffs :

Mario Lemieux: 0,71 (76/107)
Wayne Gretzky: 0,59 (122/208)
Brett Hull: 0,51 (103/202)
Joe Sakic: 0,51 (82/162)
Phil Esposito: 0,47 (61/130)
Mark Messier: 0,46 (109/236)
Jaromir Jagr: 0,45 (72/159)
Peter Forsberg: 0,44 (63/144)
Marcel Dionne: 0,43 (21/49)
Mats Sundin: 0,42 (35/83)
Gordie Howe: 0,36 (28/78)
Steve Yzerman: 0,36 (70/196)
Luc Robitaille: 0,36 (58/159)
Brendan Shanahan: 0,35 (58/167)
Mike Gartner: 0,35 (43/122)

Yeah....you read that right ...a higher avg in playoffs than gordie howe, yzerman, robitaille and shanahan....

....take a look at this list...it is as current as last nights game in the nhl with sundin no longer playing
2007-2008 - Regular season - Points - TOTAL POINTS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=direct&page=Home&component=completePointLeadersList)

Sundin is the 19th best player in the league along with his stature as a long time player who can lead the young staff by example and everyone is just so anxious to lose him?

bjesus.....people are touting sidney as the next gretzky who sits in 36th place....17 spots away from sundin. .......sigh!

[hogannut]

Personally I think the 6-7 million Mats would want to play another year would be better spent on younger players. I mean last night he didn't play and for me I didn't notice he was missing.

As much as everyone keeps on saying there is no talent and skill in the Leafs system I find it ironic that the team performs as well with the "no talent" Marlies call ups than they do with their multil million dollar players. So either their big $ players are under achieving, and/or their young minor league players are better than everyone thinks. Maybe a combination of both.

Last night I didn't even notice Bryan Mc Cabe was playing until he took that selfish undisciplined penalty that allowed Buffalo to tie the game. I DID notice the way Stralman set up the 3rd goal though.

Mats has had a great year, no doubt, numbers don't lie, but 6-7 million on a 38 year old for a team that will be going through the first stages of rebuilding next year doesn't make sense to me.....IMHO.

[sharkhark]

Mats has had a great year, no doubt, numbers don't lie, but 6-7 million on a 38 year old for a team that will be going through the first stages of rebuilding next year doesn't make sense to me.....IMHO.

...that I will not argue with. regardless of how much I like him. I was speaking from more of a fan of his and not wanting him gone. I just have never understood the 'nastiness' thrown his way by so many.
If I was rebuilding the time I could not argue that much money could go further in other ways.

[hogannut]

I agree with you too. I wasn't the biggest Mats fan over the years, mostly because I was a big Wendel fan, but more so because Mats wasn't a real good captain in the earlier years. Or I guess more accurately his captaincy was shadowed by players who may have been better leaders than he was, like Gary Roberts.

However over the last couple of years with the younger players being put in the line up Sundin has actually become a good captain. If they resigned him for one more year I wouldn't be totally upset, and if he were to play one more year without injuries he could help with the new look Leafs I think we will be seeing next year.

It will be interesting to see what direction Fletcher is going. Personally...IMO...he is pretty impressed with the call-ups he has seen and wants to see as much of them as he can before the end of this season. ANyone notice who was taking the shoot out last night? Other than Kaberle it was 3rd liners and call-ups.

I think where many Leaf fans are simply wrong, is to think that unless you have a top 10 draft pick on every line your team is no good. This is not the case. What you need is consistency, and one thing I will say is when you see all the Marlies call ups in the Leafs line up there is more consistency through the line up, less of a difference between the 1st line and the 4th line. A good example of this is Ottawa. THeir talent is without question, but their performance after the first 20 games has been among the worst in the league.

THis is soooo important now in the salary cap NHL, your 4th line MUST be able to contribute because you simply do not have the $ to stack a team anymore. For some reason many people (including BIll Waters) evaluate a player based on their position in the draft, and not their play on the ice. Don CHerry also made that observation and statement a few weeks ago when he was questioning why Jeremy Williams doesn't get more ice time, after setting a NHL record of scoring in each of his first 3 games played in the league.

For those of you who are on the "no talent" Marlies band wagon I think you will be disapointed when you see some of the name on the 2008-09 Leafs roster.

[Ger63]

bjesus.....people are touting sidney as the next gretzky who sits in 36th place....17 spots away from sundin. .......sigh!
[/quote]

Sidney Crosby has 69 points in 52 games and is a +19. Not bad for a 21 year old. The 2nd coming of Gretzky he is not, but he would be challenging Ovechkin for the overall point lead if he did not miss so many games because of injury.

[Richard]

If the Leafs resign Mats for anywhere near the same dollars he is getting now, they deserve to finish out of the playoffs next year.

I have nothing against Mats but the Leafs need to rebuild with younger players, they would be much better off putting a chunk of money into hiring a better scouting staff.

To me Mats is a player that could play a big part in a Stanley Cup winner but he is not the guy who will lead you there.

[sharkhark]

Sidney Crosby has 69 points in 52 games and is a +19. Not bad for a 21 year old. The 2nd coming of Gretzky he is not, but he would be challenging Ovechkin for the overall point lead if he did not miss so many games because of injury.

Point wasn't to crap on sidney. Point I was trying to make is so many guys I talk to are all gung ho over malkin and ovechkin and those vancouver twins and sidney etc.
Then when sundin comes into conversation they say he sucks he is a floater he is not tough enough...then i did a little analysis and saw that the guy they all agree will continue to develop and improve i.e. crosby is half of what sundin is in points standings.

Why crap on sundin who at age 38 (which in dog/hockey years is equivalent to 115) is still a good producer while no-one has anything bad to say about sid. Sid will be great. He will get better and better. Wasn't my point.

[avidgolfer]

I would like to thank Mats for all he's done for the team and all the spectacular plays he provided for the fans in this city. However, I'm sure he's played his last game for the blue and white.

Sure he can contribute but, will he suddenly make the Leafs a contender by coming back next year? Nope. Let the young guys play and develop so the rebuilding can start.

[Ger63]

Point wasn't to crap on sidney. Point I was trying to make is so many guys I talk to are all gung ho over malkin and ovechkin and those vancouver twins and sidney etc.
Then when sundin comes into conversation they say he sucks he is a floater he is not tough enough...then i did a little analysis and saw that the guy they all agree will continue to develop and improve i.e. crosby is half of what sundin is in points standings.

Why crap on sundin who at age 38 (which in dog/hockey years is equivalent to 115) is still a good producer while no-one has anything bad to say about sid. Sid will be great. He will get better and better. Wasn't my point.

I know you were not crapping on Crosby, but to point out that Crosby is half of what Sundin is in the scoring race without taking into consideration he has played 22 games less is not a very good example. People don't crap on Crosby because he is averaging 1.33 points per game.

[Big Johnny69]

I hope not. Players should hang up the skates before they are washed up, but not when they are still healthy contributors.
He is not a young ovechkin or malkin, but he is still an above average team player. People talked about the great effect of a older gary roberts on the youth of the team, but when the same thing can be done with sundin all the anti sundin people come out.

He has always taken a hit by alot of fans, called floater, called non physical, called selfish etc etc blah blah blah.
Anyone who sits down and looks at what he has done points wise and assists wise cannot argue.
Now look back at alot of years with linemates that would be lucky to make the third line on another team.....then go look at gretzky in oiler days and check out who his linemates were....
finnish sandwhich with Jari Kurri and Esa Tikkanen!
Tomas Sandstrom and Tony Granato!
Luc Robitaille!

Or sundin with ...
Alexei Kovalev and Tomas Plekanec?????????

How about goals in the playoffs...no I am not including assists because the unselfish sundin rocks in that department. That is why last season when he dried up in last ten games people blasted him while overlooking that his actual production was just as high as usual due to a ton of assists.

Look at the company he is in for goals in playoffs :

Mario Lemieux: 0,71 (76/107)
Wayne Gretzky: 0,59 (122/208)
Brett Hull: 0,51 (103/202)
Joe Sakic: 0,51 (82/162)
Phil Esposito: 0,47 (61/130)
Mark Messier: 0,46 (109/236)
Jaromir Jagr: 0,45 (72/159)
Peter Forsberg: 0,44 (63/144)
Marcel Dionne: 0,43 (21/49)
Mats Sundin: 0,42 (35/83)
Gordie Howe: 0,36 (28/78)
Steve Yzerman: 0,36 (70/196)
Luc Robitaille: 0,36 (58/159)
Brendan Shanahan: 0,35 (58/167)
Mike Gartner: 0,35 (43/122)

Yeah....you read that right ...a higher avg in playoffs than gordie howe, yzerman, robitaille and shanahan....

....take a look at this list...it is as current as last nights game in the nhl with sundin no longer playing
2007-2008 - Regular season - Points - TOTAL POINTS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=direct&page=Home&component=completePointLeadersList)

Sundin is the 19th best player in the league along with his stature as a long time player who can lead the young staff by example and everyone is just so anxious to lose him?

bjesus.....people are touting sidney as the next gretzky who sits in 36th place....17 spots away from sundin. .......sigh!



Please tell me you're kidding about the Crosby remark. He's only played in 50 something games. Look at his PPG avg. If he played in as many games as Sundin, Sundin would be looking way up in the points standing. Crosby would be challenging Ovechkin for the scoring title. To compare Sundin and Crosby is just ridiculous.

[sharkhark]

ok can we just make it simple.
whether its because he is in better shape and avoided injury
whether it was because he was luckier than some to avoid missing less time
whether in the limited games he missed he still beat out players who played more than him.....
....no matter the argument...my point is that sundin is currently ranked 19th in the league out of 841 players.
19th out of 841 players...enough with the sidney comments.
he beat the sedins in points
arnott
crosby
rick nash
gomez
jagr
lidstrom
hossa
gonchar
drury
koivu
modano
tkachuk
brind'amour
kozlov
comrie
recchi
cammalleri
and over 800 hundred other guys.

Please tell me you're kidding about the Crosby remark. He's only played in 50 something games. Look at his PPG avg. If he played in as many games as Sundin, Sundin would be looking way up in the points standing. Crosby would be challenging Ovechkin for the scoring title. To compare Sundin and Crosby is just ridiculous.
It doesn't matter the reason someone misses games...maybe sundins longer experience helps him in condtioning to avoid injury.
Maybe its just bad luck.
but you are right on one thing geoffie...comparing someone in 18 spots better in position in points with another is not fair:p

[Big Johnny69]

ok can we just make it simple.
whether its because he is in better shape and avoided injury
whether it was because he was luckier than some to avoid missing less time
whether in the limited games he missed he still beat out players who played more than him.....
....no matter the argument...my point is that sundin is currently ranked 19th in the league out of 841 players.
19th out of 841 players...enough with the sidney comments.
he beat the sedins in points
arnott
crosby
rick nash
gomez
jagr
lidstrom
hossa
gonchar
drury
koivu
modano
tkachuk
brind'amour
kozlov
comrie
recchi
cammalleri
and over 800 hundred other guys.


It doesn't matter the reason someone misses games...maybe sundins longer experience helps him in condtioning to avoid injury.
Maybe its just bad luck.
but you are right on one thing geoffie...comparing someone in 18 spots better in position in points with another is not fair:p


But your comparisions aren't valid. You're comparing defencemen to forwards, and we all know since the likes of Paul Coffey and Phil Housley have left the league, d-men don't score nearly as much as they used to. And to throw guys like Comrie, Recchi, Tkachuk, Kozlov (depends on which Kozlov you're talking about) is not quite fair. Comrie has never been an "elite" player in this league. Recchi, although he is playing better, has been washed up for a few seasons now. Tkachuk, he hasn't been the same in years. Injuries or not, you can't say someone is having a better season just because he has more points. Like everyone else in this thread has pointed out, if Crosby had been healthy all season it wouldn't even be a close discussion. So if you feel like comparing players, compare similar players.

Sundin is Toronto's go-to guy. So if you really want to get picky, let's compare him to other team's go-to guys. In that case there is 17 players ahead of Sundin, so his season must pale in comparision, right? Doesn't that sound stupid? It sure does. Sundin has had a great season, based on the team he plays on, and his age. But to put him ahead of other players based on points alone just doesn't make sense.

Ask most people around the league who'd they rather have on their team, Sundin or Lidstrom? Most if not all would choose Lidstrom. They won't care about the point totals. There are so many more intangables (sp?) to consider other than just points. I don't mean to harp, but usually remarks like this are made by casual fans of the game. Perhaps you have been watching hockey your whole life, but that is how this argument comes across. There just isn't much validity to your argument.

You can't compare Sundin to the reigning Hart and Art Ross trophy winner.

[sharkhark]

But your comparisions aren't valid. You're comparing defencemen to forwards, and we all know since the likes of Paul Coffey and Phil Housley have left the league, d-men don't score nearly as much as they used to. And to throw guys like Comrie, Recchi, Tkachuk, Kozlov (depends on which Kozlov you're talking about) is not quite fair. Comrie has never been an "elite" player in this league. Recchi, although he is playing better, has been washed up for a few seasons now. Tkachuk, he hasn't been the same in years. Injuries or not, you can't say someone is having a better season just because he has more points. Like everyone else in this thread has pointed out, if Crosby had been healthy all season it wouldn't even be a close discussion. So if you feel like comparing players, compare similar players.

Sundin is Toronto's go-to guy. So if you really want to get picky, let's compare him to other team's go-to guys. In that case there is 17 players ahead of Sundin, so his season must pale in comparision, right? Doesn't that sound stupid? It sure does. Sundin has had a great season, based on the team he plays on, and his age. But to put him ahead of other players based on points alone just doesn't make sense.

Ask most people around the league who'd they rather have on their team, Sundin or Lidstrom? Most if not all would choose Lidstrom. They won't care about the point totals. There are so many more intangables (sp?) to consider other than just points. I don't mean to harp, but usually remarks like this are made by casual fans of the game. Perhaps you have been watching hockey your whole life, but that is how this argument comes across. There just isn't much validity to your argument.

You can't compare Sundin to the reigning Hart and Art Ross trophy winner.
LINK IS HERE NHL STATS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)
...umm...geoffie...did you follow my original link to the NHL official points page?
I am comparing every player in the league to sundin? not forwards to defenceman or any other specific comparison.
LINK IS HERE NHL STATS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)
You are also missing my point that I started my defense of sundin. If you look back to beginning rather than just having a narrow focus on my last few posts, this thread is about mats, is he in his last leaf game?
This is not a comparison thread. LINK IS HERE NHL STATS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)
But inevitably by default when one tries to defend why they love a player you have no choice but to make your defense by comparison.
LINK IS HERE NHL STATS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)
Thats funny that you said I am only comparing to defenceman, last I checked almost ever person on my list is a center, a couple are wingers and only a couple are defenceman.LINK IS HERE NHL STATS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)

Do you realize I am simply looking at the official NHL stats list of points. The points do not care what position you play, who you play with, whether you do not play because of poor conditioning and an injury or bad luck.

The points. are the points. are the points. Mats is the 19th highest points producer out of 840 players. LINK IS HERE NHL STATS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)

YOu said 17 are ahead of him, actually if you want to go by position mats is 11th in the league

ESP mats is 21st

There are only 15 teams represented in the first 19 positions of the points totals for the season. Yet the leafs don't make post season because one soldier cannot carry a team. Even ottawa is represented 3 times in that list (though they after leading the NHL are now possibly out of playoffs soon....yeouch!)
washington
pittsburgh
calgary
detroit
san jose
Tampa bay
ottawa
atlanta
montreal
dallas
minnesota
carolina
buffalo
anaheim
toronto

[Big Johnny69]

LINK IS HERE NHL STATS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)
...umm...geoffie...did you follow my original link to the NHL official points page?
I am comparing every player in the league to sundin? not forwards to defenceman or any other specific comparison.
LINK IS HERE NHL STATS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)
You are also missing my point that I started my defense of sundin. If you look back to beginning rather than just having a narrow focus on my last few posts, this thread is about mats, is he in his last leaf game?
This is not a comparison thread. LINK IS HERE NHL STATS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)
But inevitably by default when one tries to defend why they love a player you have no choice but to make your defense by comparison.
LINK IS HERE NHL STATS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)
Thats funny that you said I am only comparing to defenceman, last I checked almost ever person on my list is a center, a couple are wingers and only a couple are defenceman.LINK IS HERE NHL STATS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)

Do you realize I am simply looking at the official NHL stats list of points. The points do not care what position you play, who you play with, whether you do not play because of poor conditioning and an injury or bad luck.

The points. are the points. are the points. Mats is the 19th highest points producer out of 840 players. LINK IS HERE NHL STATS (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)

YOu said 17 are ahead of him, actually if you want to go by position mats is 11th in the league

ESP mats is 21st

There are only 15 teams represented in the first 19 positions of the points totals for the season. Yet the leafs don't make post season because one soldier cannot carry a team. Even ottawa is represented 3 times in that list (though they after leading the NHL are now possibly out of playoffs soon....yeouch!)
washington
pittsburgh
calgary
detroit
san jose
Tampa bay
ottawa
atlanta
montreal
dallas
minnesota
carolina
buffalo
anaheim
toronto





I'm well aware that this thread is about whether or not Mats has played his last game. You were the one that brought up comparisions of Mats to other players.

And if you really want to talk about being narrow minded, just look at your last post. 6 times you add the NHL points list as a link. I'm simply stating you can't judge the success of one's season solely by their points accumulated.

And if you don't want to be considered narrow minded as well, don't compare players that have spent almost a third or fourth of their season injured to players that have played almost a complete season. Keep your comparisions to apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

And if you don't want to be considered narrow minded when making comparisions, try to realize how the game has evolved over the last 15 to 20 years, where defencemen would commonly be positioned in the top 10-20 in the scoring race, where now some seasons they hardly break the top 30.

If it's a thread about Mats' last game with the Buds and you want to talk about how great he has been for the organization, then more power to you. I can't disagree with that. But if you start throwing in far-fetched comparisions to other players, then be prepared to take some criticism. And if you want to back up your argument, be a little more open minded than simply stating "he had a better season because he has more points".

But like I said, these seem like comments from simply a casual fan that may not know all the ins and outs of what hockey has to offer, or simply the opinions of a biased Leaf fan.

Either way, I will take nothing away from Mats' accomplishments. He's had a great career while making do with mainly second liners his entire stint in TO. That says alot about him.

You can have the last word on this one Craig. I've said my piece, and those in the know realize what I am saying.

[sharkhark]

I'm well aware that this thread is about whether or not Mats has played his last game. You were the one that brought up comparisions of Mats to other players.

And if you really want to talk about being narrow minded, just look at your last post. 6 times you add the NHL points list as a link. I'm simply stating you can't judge the success of one's season solely by their points accumulated.

And if you don't want to be considered narrow minded as well, don't compare players that have spent almost a third or fourth of their season injured to players that have played almost a complete season. Keep your comparisions to apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

And if you don't want to be considered narrow minded when making comparisions, try to realize how the game has evolved over the last 15 to 20 years, where defencemen would commonly be positioned in the top 10-20 in the scoring race, where now some seasons they hardly break the top 30.

If it's a thread about Mats' last game with the Buds and you want to talk about how great he has been for the organization, then more power to you. I can't disagree with that. But if you start throwing in far-fetched comparisions to other players, then be prepared to take some criticism. And if you want to back up your argument, be a little more open minded than simply stating "he had a better season because he has more points".

But like I said, these seem like comments from simply a casual fan that may not know all the ins and outs of what hockey has to offer, or simply the opinions of a biased Leaf fan.

Either way, I will take nothing away from Mats' accomplishments. He's had a great career while making do with mainly second liners his entire stint in TO. That says alot about him.

You can have the last word on this one Craig. I've said my piece, and those in the know realize what I am saying.

I like you too much geoff. Don't think we have ever even had a disagreement over anything ever on here or OG. My sarcasm and points were more in poking fun at your viewpoint. I thought because we knew each other you would recognise the parry and thrust of our posts as nothing more than fluff. I say this because I do not think we have ever had opposing views on golf stuff or otherwise.

My opinion on mats is not a leaf bias. The team sucks. It has generally been a not so fun team to watch. I will watch teams that suck but put out an effort.
I remember one good season with that awesome detroit series and the whole gretzky injury penalty thing. Thats it. There are hockey fans and leaf fans. I am a hockey fan. I just have never understood the hate on for him by most. Even in a yr where the team has failed, mats still put himself in 19th position out of 800. Thats my only point.
Now if you want to look at $$$ paid I think he is one of the highest. Does he deserve elite $$$ for what he puts out. Even I cannot agree on that one.

[Big Johnny69]

I like you too much geoff. Don't think we have ever even had a disagreement over anything ever on here or OG. My sarcasm and points were more in poking fun at your viewpoint. I thought because we knew each other you would recognise the parry and thrust of our posts as nothing more than fluff. I say this because I do not think we have ever had opposing views on golf stuff or otherwise.

My opinion on mats is not a leaf bias. The team sucks. It has generally been a not so fun team to watch. I will watch teams that suck but put out an effort.
I remember one good season with that awesome detroit series and the whole gretzky injury penalty thing. Thats it. There are hockey fans and leaf fans. I am a hockey fan. I just have never understood the hate on for him by most. Even in a yr where the team has failed, mats still put himself in 19th position out of 800. Thats my only point.
Now if you want to look at $$$ paid I think he is one of the highest. Does he deserve elite $$$ for what he puts out. Even I cannot agree on that one.


I hold nothing against you Craig. You're a friend. Doesn't mean we can't have differing views. :D

[sharkhark]

I hold nothing against you Craig. You're a friend. Doesn't mean we can't have differing views. :D

Glad to hear it. I really meant everything in a joking/poking fun way at each other like guys do face to face over a beer. Not every body here is going to know that we know each other and even you might have thought it was meant in a serious way.
Consider it jealousy of ottawa having post season for a couple seasons while I sat here sadly with my..............
http://www.kievvideo.com/ebay/NHL18/SUNDIN.jpg
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif
(http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1) (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?service=page&page=Stats&fetchKey=20082ALLAASAll&viewName=points&sort=points&pg=1)