How Courses could get players rounds under 4:15 max...

[Anthony]

In another thread I was asked to come up with a plan (tongue in cheek) to get people to complete rounds in under 4 hours.... I have amended it to a maximum of 4:15... In that thread I was told if I could do it then I'd get free rounds for life.... So heres that list...

1. The first two hours of tee times will include a $25 surcharge, refundable if you complete the round in under 4 hours. 90% of early golfers do so because they have responsibilities back home and want 4 hour rounds.

2. Marshal assesses each player off the tee and explains that you must play the proper tee deck. You know from the first swing whether the golfer should be playing black, gold, blue or white. You warn those playing the wrong tee box that they are welcome to continue from those tee boxes, but will be asked to leave if they fall behind.

3. Ready golf. It is easy to spot those nassau and skins players obsessing over each shot and playing in turn. Again if they fall behind, you tell them they are on the clock and will be asked to leave after 9 (no refund). Go ahead and bet, but don't slow the game down for others.

4. A novel approach after the rabbits are out for those first 2 hours... 8 minute tee times but every 5th is empty so there is no back-up with players following points 2 & 3.

5. Have a Marshal at a few strategic holes where there are lost balls or heavy rough to help in search for the wayward tee shot.

6. Local rules to speed up play, i.e. lateral hazard definitions and very liberal drop areas.

7. Kick anyone off the course who searches for their ball, does not find it and goes back to the tee to hit 3.

Any merit???

[Big Johnny69]

Some decent ideas, and some questionable ones.

The ones I have problems with would be:

2) what if the player was late and didn't get in a proper stretch? It's happened to me where I've hit a terrible tee shot on the first hole and still went on to have a great round. All golfers hit bad shots, and most happen on the first tee shot of the day. They don't call them first tee jitters for nothing. And I don't really think most golfers would appreciate someone untrained in the area of golf instruction telling them which tees to play.

7) unless of course you mean anyone who wasn't smart enough to hit a provisional, then yes, kick them off. I heard from players over the weekend at the Ryder Cup that even if they were pretty sure they'd find their ball a provisional was still hit, just in case the original ball could not be found.

All in all, not bad ideas. With some tweaking they could be reasonable methods to speed up rounds. I'm assuming these are rules for casual rounds? Competitives rounds are an exception and no doubt should have another set of rules to keep these rounds from getting excessively long as well, but you won't get competitive rounds done in 4:15, it just won't happen.

[Anthony]

Some decent ideas, and some questionable ones.

The ones I have problems with would be:

2) what if the player was late and didn't get in a proper stretch? It's happened to me where I've hit a terrible tee shot on the first hole and still went on to have a great round. All golfers hit bad shots, and most happen on the first tee shot of the day. They don't call them first tee jitters for nothing. And I don't really think most golfers would appreciate someone untrained in the area of golf instruction telling them which tees to play.

7) unless of course you mean anyone who wasn't smart enough to hit a provisional, then yes, kick them off. I heard from players over the weekend at the Ryder Cup that even if they were pretty sure they'd find their ball a provisional was still hit, just in case the original ball could not be found.

All in all, not bad ideas. With some tweaking they could be reasonable methods to speed up rounds. I'm assuming these are rules for casual rounds? Competitives rounds are an exception and no doubt should have another set of rules to keep these rounds from getting excessively long as well, but you won't get competitive rounds done in 4:15, it just won't happen.

I agree with 2.... But you can usually tell from the swings, the skill level (or certainly the lack there of)..... As for 7, I understand a competitive closed course tournament, but if I book a time and arrive to be told that there is a tournament or 40 golfers playing a serious match (in their minds) in front of me and it may be slow, I'd be pissed... 7 was also an inside joke for those familiar with a thread from last week...

[BowmanvilleJim]

Just arm the marshalls and allow them the shoot any golfers who fall behind the pace.

[Golden Bear]

I'd add a couple:

- No snack/beverage break at the tenth tee.

And for courses:

- no 8-minute tee times. (I know you suggested keeping 8-minute tee times but making every 5th slot open ... but just going with 10-minute tee times gets the same number of rounds in in the same amount of time as 8 minutes with a skip.)

Regarding the number 2 -- I often make my worst swing on the first tee. (Perhaps it's appropriate that this is rule #2.) Granted, I'm playing from the whites anyway ... but I'd hate to have them tell me I should play the reds just because I chunked the ball into the river.

There are some awful looking swings out there that can play from the blues. I really wouldn't count on a marshall's assessment that's based on one swing and its result. Arnold Palmer would be playing from the reds.

[Andru]

I've played golf with a group in under 4 hours. The best was 4:15 minutes. Nice even pace. The times I see under 4 hour rounds while walking are at clubs when the members are playing. They're actually not really thinking it's golf while sleep walking. Walk-pull-hit, walk-pull-hit. They take their 85 and walk out the door. YEAH! I actually like playing at 4-4:15 min. Every course is different too.

1) Not really fair if the group in front is slow

2) I don't want some marshall telling me what tees to play. I paid my money I'll play whatever the #$%^ I want.

3) Everyone should play ready golf. However if you're playing for money you're playing for money.

4) I like this one but it's not happening. Revenue is king as it should be.

5) This one is awesome. I like it on blind doglegs etc.

6) You're still talking about golf right? and 2 I rarely see anyone play he proper rules when it comes to lost balls.

7) Dude this is a fundamental of golf. You can't start bending the rules. If you can't play real golf then play 9

In another thread I was asked to come up with a plan (tongue in cheek) to get people to complete rounds in under 4 hours.... I have amended it to a maximum of 4:15... In that thread I was told if I could do it then I'd get free rounds for life.... So heres that list...

1. The first two hours of tee times will include a $25 surcharge, refundable if you complete the round in under 4 hours. 90% of early golfers do so because they have responsibilities back home and want 4 hour rounds.

2. Marshal assesses each player off the tee and explains that you must play the proper tee deck. You know from the first swing whether the golfer should be playing black, gold, blue or white. You warn those playing the wrong tee box that they are welcome to continue from those tee boxes, but will be asked to leave if they fall behind.

3. Ready golf. It is easy to spot those nassau and skins players obsessing over each shot and playing in turn. Again if they fall behind, you tell them they are on the clock and will be asked to leave after 9 (no refund). Go ahead and bet, but don't slow the game down for others.

4. A novel approach after the rabbits are out for those first 2 hours... 8 minute tee times but every 5th is empty so there is no back-up with players following points 2 & 3.

5. Have a Marshal at a few strategic holes where there are lost balls or heavy rough to help in search for the wayward tee shot.

6. Local rules to speed up play, i.e. lateral hazard definitions and very liberal drop areas.

7. Kick anyone off the course who searches for their ball, does not find it and goes back to the tee to hit 3.

Any merit???

[Pingnut]

I think the biggest culprit for slow play is people with long pre-shot routines who are not already half way through it when it's there time to hit. I want to shoot myself watching someone take 6 practice swings before each shot, only to hit crappy shot after crappy shot. Most people take way to much time on the greens as well. I blame the PGA players who people are trying to emulate. Really, all that is needed is a quick crash course on golf etiquette, ready golf and pace of play for everyone. I'm not out there to rush people, but they need to be aware of what's going on around them (especially behind them).

[golfingoalie]

I'll call Wally at Trillium Woods and see what he thinks ;)

[Anthony]

I've played golf with a group in under 4 hours. The best was 4:15 minutes. Nice even pace. The times I see under 4 hour rounds while walking are at clubs when the members are playing. They're actually not really thinking it's golf while sleep walking. Walk-pull-hit, walk-pull-hit. They take their 85 and walk out the door. YEAH! I actually like playing at 4-4:15 min. Every course is different too.

1) Not really fair if the group in front is slow

2) I don't want some marshall telling me what tees to play. I paid my money I'll play whatever the #$%^ I want.

3) Everyone should play ready golf. However if you're playing for money you're playing for money.

4) I like this one but it's not happening. Revenue is king as it should be.

5) This one is awesome. I like it on blind doglegs etc.

6) You're still talking about golf right? and 2 I rarely see anyone play he proper rules when it comes to lost balls.

7) Dude this is a fundamental of golf. You can't start bending the rules. If you can't play real golf then play 9

1. You wouldn't be penalized if you are waiting on the tee...
2. Again, play what tee you want, just play in under 4 hours... Even bad swings should produce solid contact. No one should be playing the back tees who duffs their tee shots. Back tees are for people who hit it 250+. You can tell...
3. If playing for money and slow, do it on another course. BTW how many people do play for money? I very rarel do, and if so it is minimal, and never have been paired with anyone who does.

Won't comment on the rest....

[Golden Bear]

I go nuts when people take four or five practice swings. At the absolute most, I'll take a second practice swing, and that's only if there's something in my swing that I'm working on and want to make sure I'm focussed on that swing thought. But it's rare that I take a second practice swing.

I've got a theory that you the degree to which a player sucks is proportional to the number of practice swings they take. That's why I try to take only one. That way, people don't know how much I suck until after I've hit the ball. (And if I'd taken three or four practice swings, my shot was going to suck, anyway.)

[The Troll]

I'd add a couple:

- No snack/beverage break at the tenth tee.


At the private course I was at last year it was expected that each group would have a 7-8 minute sit down at the halfway. Even on weekend mornings the pace was always 4 - 4:10.

I go nuts when people take four or five practice swings.

I quit going on the road with a group this year due to one guy taking as many as 20 attempts to "get the feel". We routinely played in 5:30 at upper end courses....I got tired of feeling ashamed. :p

[Golden Bear]

At the private course I was at last year it was expected that each group would have a 7-8 minute sit down at the halfway. Even on weekend mornings the pace was always 4 - 4:10.Don't counter my ideas with facts.



I quit going on the road with a group this year due to one guy taking as many as 20 attempts to "get the feel". We routinely played in 5:30 at upper end courses....I got tired of feeling ashamed. :p

Yeah, the problem with guys who take all those swings to get the "feel" is that by the time they've got the "feel" they've tired themselves out and are chunking or topping their shots.

I think if it takes 20 swings to find the "feel", the person has problems that 20 practice swings won't cure.

[Hacksaw]

A friend, with whom I golf about once a month, takes 3 or 4 practice swing and over examines when putting. The first time we played, his procedure started driving me nuts after a few holes. Of course, he plays from a deck or two above me. He's analytical by nature and usually runs late (I book our tee-time and inform him that it's 45 minutes earlier than it actually is.)

We seem to be total opposites; I arrive at the venue too early, normally play from the whites, only take a practice if I am feeling 'tight' on a chip shot near the green, putt quickly and zip off the green.

All of that said, he's still fun to have around.

[The Troll]

Yeah, the problem with guys who take all those swings to get the "feel" is that by the time they've got the "feel" they've tired themselves out and are chunking or topping their shots.

I think if it takes 20 swings to find the "feel", the person has problems that 20 practice swings won't cure.

I forgot to mention that after the inevitable bad shot he would take a few more swings and sometimes drop another ball.

We once started at 3pm in July at National Pines with at least 14 groups behind us....two of them finished, the second one in darkness. It was sad.

[alien270]

i love to play ready golf, and slow play really bothers me..
at the same time though i have to be reasonable 4.5 hours is really ideal
but if your playing during the w/e you would have to tee up really early to be able to be out of there by 4.5 hrs.
i find all the hacks drunks and nub golfers come out on the w/e
but once i know im stuck behind them i just have to slow down myself
i find when im playing a bad round i tend to speed things up.

ive been a part of both situations where im stuck behind a slow group
and sometimes when im the slow group :(
ive been taking the wife out for some golf and shes shooting 110-120s and its makes the rounds really looooong and she can tell i get frustrated when i feel im being pushed from behind.

sorry to go offtopic
but i would have to say i dont agree with most of your suggestions
i dont think i would take it well if a marshall told me that i shouldnt play from the whites or blues and go up to reds instead :rofl:
also ive never gone back to the tee box to rehit i usually just drop

[Bellyhungry]

In another thread I was asked to come up with a plan (tongue in cheek) to get people to complete rounds in under 4 hours.... I have amended it to a maximum of 4:15... In that thread I was told if I could do it then I'd get free rounds for life.... So heres that list...

1. The first two hours of tee times will include a $25 surcharge, refundable if you complete the round in under 4 hours. 90% of early golfers do so because they have responsibilities back home and want 4 hour rounds.

2. Marshal assesses each player off the tee and explains that you must play the proper tee deck. You know from the first swing whether the golfer should be playing black, gold, blue or white. You warn those playing the wrong tee box that they are welcome to continue from those tee boxes, but will be asked to leave if they fall behind.

3. Ready golf. It is easy to spot those nassau and skins players obsessing over each shot and playing in turn. Again if they fall behind, you tell them they are on the clock and will be asked to leave after 9 (no refund). Go ahead and bet, but don't slow the game down for others.

4. A novel approach after the rabbits are out for those first 2 hours... 8 minute tee times but every 5th is empty so there is no back-up with players following points 2 & 3.

5. Have a Marshal at a few strategic holes where there are lost balls or heavy rough to help in search for the wayward tee shot.

6. Local rules to speed up play, i.e. lateral hazard definitions and very liberal drop areas.

7. Kick anyone off the course who searches for their ball, does not find it and goes back to the tee to hit 3.

Any merit???

8) Hire less hot cart girls. I have seen many guys taking their sweet time to flirt with the cart girl.

[focal]

I forgot to mention that after the inevitable bad shot he would take a few more swings and sometimes drop another ball.

We once started at 3pm in July at National Pines with at least 14 groups behind us....two of them finished, the second one in darkness. It was sad.

there is one event at NP that just grinds to a halt. it's that damn par 3 on the back nine...forcing everyone to hit off the back tee (200+ yards) into a wind, putting out on a pin position that's on a slope is just a recipe for a SLOW day. I heard there were 6 groups waiting on that tee (hole 13)

[hogannut]

THis is like communism. It may be a great theory and/or idea but it will never work out like that in the real world. NO golf course, even private course would ever enforce the rules to this extenet. You would lose to many customers. Us here at TGN are "golfers" but we forget that a large % of people who play are not "golfers" they are people who are recreational golfers and 5+ hour rounds don't really bother them. Then you get the "boys" who are golfing to get away from home and their wives. These PREFER long rounds then when they get home late they can blame it on "slow play".

I have said this before, but until 2 factors of golf are addressed rounds will always be around 5 hours or more.

Factor #1.....carts. They slow play down. You drive around all over the place and end up taking longer to play the hole than walking. First you go to player #1's ball while he plays his shot and then drive over to player #2's ball. In between these 2 guys are socializing and NOT getting ready to play their shots. When you cart you are not "into the game" and therefore take longer to play.

Factor #2.....booze. ONce alchol is added to factor #1 (because everyone who drinks on hte course rides because you need somewhere to put your beer) everything slows down even more. Also, in addition to the mental affect booze has on the person you will be adding 20-30 minutes just to buy the beer and flirt with the beer girl. As your beers increase so does your flirting time.

Alchol and cart rental increase course income, therefore this will never change.

THe days of 4.5 hour rounds are gone. Accept it, or play par 3's....IMO.

[goshawk]

Hogannut, I think you may be generalizing a bit. I have had to play for the past 2 years from a cart, and most of the time I've had to wait for walkers to get to their ball, decide what they're going to do, then the 4-5 practice swings before pulling the trigger. I've also been paired with walkers who weren't very far behind me in the cart and we've moved along at a pretty good clip, finishing in 4-4.5 hours. And in both cases, they were both groups of "serious" golfers, not someone out for an afternoon stroll. Not all cart riders are turtles.
The alcohol does tend to slow things up, but so does the Gatorade drinkers who are flirting with the cart tarts too. Nothing is to blame for this other than testerone. The problem with alcohol in excess is that golfers tend to have less focus on the game and more focus on being silly or doing something that's totally out of character, like driving a cart or walking their pull cart across a green and having a good laugh about it.

[Copetown Woods]

There are some good ideas here, but some that would make a big difference in revenue at the end of the day.

To change things like this (tee time intervals, no halfway house etc.) makes a big difference to the bottom line. Golf Course owners aren't greedy like everyone thinks they are ... they are running a business ... and although there are some course owners that have so much money they have the golf course as a "toy", 95% of course owners are people trying to make a living.

What if a starter had never seen Jim Furyk before and he was taking some practice swings and was told to move up to the white tees ... by a starter who likely can't break 90 ???

We can suggest a tee to play, but never force anyone to play a certain tee. It sounds like a good idea until you are the one who gets told to move to the white tees .. then your ego is shattered and you think the starter is an idiot.

[guitarman]

8) Hire less hot cart girls.

Or hire more hot cart girls and I won't mind spending 5 or 6 hours there.

[hogannut]

Hogannut, I think you may be generalizing a bit. I have had to play for the past 2 years from a cart, and most of the time I've had to wait for walkers to get to their ball, decide what they're going to do, then the 4-5 practice swings before pulling the trigger. I've also been paired with walkers who weren't very far behind me in the cart and we've moved along at a pretty good clip, finishing in 4-4.5 hours. And in both cases, they were both groups of "serious" golfers, not someone out for an afternoon stroll. Not all cart riders are turtles.
The alcohol does tend to slow things up, but so does the Gatorade drinkers who are flirting with the cart tarts too. Nothing is to blame for this other than testerone. The problem with alcohol in excess is that golfers tend to have less focus on the game and more focus on being silly or doing something that's totally out of character, like driving a cart or walking their pull cart across a green and having a good laugh about it.

Yes I am generalizing a bit, no argument there. However as a junior golfer I can distinctly remember having our little welcome to the course speach from the course pro and remember him saying 3 hours and 45 minutes (FLeminton) is what you should be able to play 18 holes in (2 x 9 holes...yes I know Flemo is 9 holes). THE 2 biggest changes since that time (late 70's) is how many people now ride instead of walk and booze is legal to consume on the course.

THis is why I said what I said.

[goshawk]

Or hire more hot cart girls and I won't mind spending 5 or 6 hours there.
Or hire some "cart tarts" who don't mind making occasional trips into the woods? That'll really speed things up!:rolleyes:

How about hiring some "cart studs"! There won't be too many guys flirting with them, and the ones who do aren't the ones slowing up play with cart girls!;)

Yes I am generalizing a bit, no argument there. However as a junior golfer I can distinctly remember having our little welcome to the course speach from the course pro and remember him saying 3 hours and 45 minutes (FLeminton) is what you should be able to play 18 holes in (2 x 9 holes...yes I know Flemo is 9 holes). THE 2 biggest changes since that time (late 70's) is how many people now ride instead of walk and booze is legal to consume on the course.

THis is why I said what I said.
Understood. But not all cart riders play "golf by committee". I've seen lots of walkers doing this, everyone going to each ball as a group.
Courses aren't going to remove alcohol from the beverage carts. And the cart girls aren't going to make a judgement as to whether someone is overserved or not because they're prob not trained for it, although the course is responsible for overserving someone.

[guitarman]

Hogannut, I think you may be generalizing a bit. I have had to play for the past 2 years from a cart, and most of the time I've had to wait for walkers to get to their ball, decide what they're going to do, then the 4-5 practice swings before pulling the trigger. I've also been paired with walkers who weren't very far behind me in the cart and we've moved along at a pretty good clip, finishing in 4-4.5 hours. And in both cases, they were both groups of "serious" golfers, not someone out for an afternoon stroll. Not all cart riders are turtles.
The alcohol does tend to slow things up, but so does the Gatorade drinkers who are flirting with the cart tarts too. Nothing is to blame for this other than testerone. The problem with alcohol in excess is that golfers tend to have less focus on the game and more focus on being silly or doing something that's totally out of character, like driving a cart or walking their pull cart across a green and having a good laugh about it.

I agree. Improper use of a cart slows down play. I've played behind guys that I've had to wait because they aren't using the cart properly and slowing down play. I've played with others in my foursome that drove a cart and would do things like go up ahead and locate all the balls before I could even catch up with them. And I'm a fast walker. It makes it nice to know my ball is located before I even get to it. Rounds like that I've never had to look for a ball.

[scan]

I have read so many topics on "slow play" and how a round shouldn't last more than 4hrs. I usually just read everyone's comments and keep quiet. Well not anymore. Let me tell you guys that you are arrogant snobs, especially the OP who would even think of these rules.


1. The first two hours of tee times will include a $25 surcharge, refundable if you complete the round in under 4 hours. 90% of early golfers do so because they have responsibilities back home and want 4 hour rounds.

This is such a ridiculous rule I don't even know where to begin. i.e. Say I'm on the 15th hole, I look at my watch and realize I'm approaching 4hrs. NOw I'll have to decide if I want to stay or get my $25 back?


2. Marshal assesses each player off the tee and explains that you must play the proper tee deck. You know from the first swing whether the golfer should be playing black, gold, blue or white. You warn those playing the wrong tee box that they are welcome to continue from those tee boxes, but will be asked to leave if they fall behind.

Who are you, or him, to judge. What's next, judge me for not wearing some expensive brand name clothing and tell me how and where to play?


I'm not even going to bother assessing the other rules. This thread is full of golf snobs (not everyone) that it makes me sick. YOu guys really need to think that not everyone is very good. Were going to hit balls into the trees. And guess what???? WE DON'T CARE. We are enjoying the social aspects of the game. Maybe out on a day with the guys/gals, enjoying the weather, having a couple of beers, etc...Maybe you guys should too! It's a lot more relaxing.

[guitarman]

Or hire some "cart tarts" who don't mind making occasional trips into the woods?


Again, you'll have many more guys that don't mind the extra long rounds. Myself, I don't mind flirting with cart girls that have been flirted with all day long but I don't want any trips in to the woods with a cart girl thats been there about 5 or 6 times that day.:D

[bigred]

I paid my money I'll play whatever the #$%^ I want.



And that, my friend, is exactly why public golf courses have 5+ hour rounds. People can blame the golf courses all they want - but the problem is the user not the operator.


Edit:

I remembered seeing this Golf digest survey a while back:

Q: How would you rate your own pace of play?
Fast: 57.8 percent
Average: 37.4 percent
Slow: 4.8 percent

Q: How would you rate most golfers' pace of play?
Slow: 56.2 percent
Average: 41.8 percent
Fast: 2.0 percent

Think that just about sums it up - it's always someone else's fault.

[Anthony]

I have read so many topics on "slow play" and how a round shouldn't last more than 4hrs. I usually just read everyone's comments and keep quiet. Well not anymore. Let me tell you guys that you are arrogant snobs, especially the OP who would even think of these rules.



This is such a ridiculous rule I don't even know where to begin. i.e. Say I'm on the 15th hole, I look at my watch and realize I'm approaching 4hrs. NOw I'll have to decide if I want to stay or get my $25 back?



Who are you, or him, to judge. What's next, judge me for not wearing some expensive brand name clothing and tell me how and where to play?


I'm not even going to bother assessing the other rules. This thread is full of golf snobs (not everyone) that it makes me sick. YOu guys really need to think that not everyone is very good. Were going to hit balls into the trees. And guess what???? WE DON'T CARE. We are enjoying the social aspects of the game. Maybe out on a day with the guys/gals, enjoying the weather, having a couple of beers, etc...Maybe you guys should too! It's a lot more relaxing.

You sir are the muckraker and the scurge on the golf course.

As for my OP. You know you are not getting your $25 back and that is the decision you are making when you book...

I am not a great golfer, but playing in under 4 hours is very easy, even playing multiple balls, hitting it left and right and zigzagging the course.

As for the Marshal you guys are so out of line talking about Jim Furyk and bad swings... A bad swing doesn't mean you are a bad or slow golfer. You are way too full of yourselves and your work on the driving range and lessons. A person who goes to the blacks on a hole where let's say there is a 200 yard carry, you can tell as soon as they make contact their skill level and ability. I don't care how rusty you are, you should not be whiffing or grounding the ball off the tees if you are playing back there. And as I said, be my guest, play those tees, but don't fall behind as I said in my OP.

I remember playing with a father/son at Woodensticks and the father who couldn't hit it 200 yards played the back tees (I played a tee deck ahead) and I watched him seldom clear the hazard. Please don't tell me he was having fun. The group ahead had a father with his 15 yo son who also couldn't hit it 200 yards and the son somehow felt compelled to play the back tees with the other three. Sorry if i think this kid was being set up for bad habits down the road.

You are the one ruining the game for many people playing the 5.5 hour round and not caring one bit how slow you play, how much you have set back tee times, ruined the experience for other players behind you and the course in lost revenue and players who will not return. Tell me how you feel showing up for a tee time and being told that your tee time has been delayed 45 minutes because it is playing slow out there? How dare you comment on my post.

Also about the halfway house, i love courses where you can call in your order at the ninth tee. By placing the Halfway house at the 10th tee and no travel required, that saves time too.

[torontodude]

For non competition golf, I would suggest that players should have to be on the green by 3 shots for a par 3, 4 shots for a par 4 and 5 shots for a par 5. This should make sure that player does no worse than triple bogey, allowing for a 3 putt...more than generous. Anything beyond this and you skip the hole. Slow play is mostly due to bad players with no etiquette, who will take wayward shot after wayward shot with no consideration for others.

As well, I would suggest not allowing my uncle to play.

And I also agree that carts slow down the game in general but I don't think there's anything we can do about that.

[racmbs]

You sir are the muckraker and the scurge on the golf course.

As for my OP. You know you are not getting your $25 back and that is the decision you are making when you book...

I am not a great golfer, but playing in under 4 hours is very easy, even playing multiple balls, hitting it left and right and zigzagging the course.

As for the Marshal you guys are so out of line talking about Jim Furyk and bad swings... A bad swing doesn't mean you are a bad or slow golfer. You are way too full of yourselves and your work on the driving range and lessons. A person who goes to the blacks on a hole where let's say there is a 200 yard carry, you can tell as soon as they make contact their skill level and ability. I don't care how rusty you are, you should not be whiffing or grounding the ball off the tees if you are playing back there. And as I said, be my guest, play those tees, but don't fall behind as I said in my OP.

I remember playing with a father/son at Woodensticks and the father who couldn't hit it 200 yards played the back tees (I played a tee deck ahead) and I watched him seldom clear the hazard. Please don't tell me he was having fun. The group ahead had a father with his 15 yo son who also couldn't hit it 200 yards and the son somehow felt compelled to play the back tees with the other three. Sorry if i think this kid was being set up for bad habits down the road.

You are the one ruining the game for many people playing the 5.5 hour round and not caring one bit how slow you play, how much you have set back tee times, ruined the experience for other players behind you and the course in lost revenue and players who will not return. Tell me how you feel showing up for a tee time and being told that your tee time has been delayed 45 minutes because it is playing slow out there? How dare you comment on my post.

Also about the halfway house, i love courses where you can call in your order at the ninth tee. By placing the Halfway house at the 10th tee and no travel required, that saves time too.

Anthony...why are you so hell bent on playing in under 4 hours bro?

You've certainly made some good points, but I still have yet to understand your need to be on and off the course with a strict time frame.....isn't it about getting out and just having a good time, and NOT worrying about how long you are out there? Granted I understand it sucks waiting on the tee boxes sometimes, but I'm much happier sitting out on a course for 4 hours or more with buddies as it sure beats sitting at home doing nothing or having to do work around the house. :D

Eventually what's going to happen is you are going to become so focused on worrying about how long you and others SHOULD be playing, that you are going to forget about how fun the game is and will end up hating it...which to me sounds like you already do.

And for the record, the member who commented on your OP shouldn't be called the "muckraker and scurge" of the golf course. I personally take offense to that as he's speaking the same language my father does....he doesn't really care about anything else other than getting out their and having a good time with me or my uncle....and they BOTH suck and I get to laugh my butt off watching them hack it around like two blind farmers. :rofl:

[alien270]

Anthony.. you sound really bent on gettin in and getting out of the course right away, theres days that im same way but not everyone on the course is in a rush and its not fair for them to rush there game just because your behind them. like i said ive been on both sides, but golf isnt really meant to be get in and get out type of thing arent we supposed to enjoy the walk the experience the scenery?. anyways good luck trying to find a course where you can get in and get out in 4hrs ive done it before but its always in the wee hours in the morning or late at night.

[Anthony]

Anthony.. you sound really bent on gettin in and getting out of the course right away, theres days that im same way but not everyone on the course is in a rush and its not fair for them to rush there game just because your behind them. like i said ive been on both sides, but golf isnt really meant to be get in and get out type of thing arent we supposed to enjoy the walk the experience the scenery?. anyways good luck trying to find a course where you can get in and get out in 4hrs ive done it before but its always in the wee hours in the morning or late at night.

I just like to be moving on the course. If it is a charity tournament, I understand a slow round, but otherwise I just want a nice even pace. When I see four people walk up a fairway side by side and then stop at the first shot and then all walk and start looking for the next person's ball in the rough, I do get upset. Same with arriving at the turn and see a backup because the course decided to send some groups off or people waiting by the grill or going 200 yards back to the clubhouse.

Sorry that I actually like spending time with my spouse and children and when you add travel time, a 4.5 hour round is 6-7 hours minimum away from home.

I can live with 4.5..... How's that for a compromise???

[racmbs]

Sorry that I actually like spending time with my spouse and children and when you add travel time, a 4.5 hour round is 6-7 hours minimum away from home.

As do quite a few of us...but when it comes time to me playing golf which I've set aside for me and my buddies, my wife understands that it's a whole day affair usually and I won't be home until later.

If time is a factor then to be quite honest bro, you've already answered your own rant and should just leave golf well enough alone when you have family time to focus on.

[alien270]

I just like to be moving on the course. If it is a charity tournament, I understand a slow round, but otherwise I just want a nice even pace. When I see four people walk up a fairway side by side and then stop at the first shot and then all walk and start looking for the next person's ball in the rough, I do get upset. Same with arriving at the turn and see a backup because the course decided to send some groups off or people waiting by the grill or going 200 yards back to the clubhouse.

Sorry that I actually like spending time with my spouse and children and when you add travel time, a 4.5 hour round is 6-7 hours minimum away from home.

I can live with 4.5..... How's that for a compromise???

I know what you mean with spending time at home with the wifey and kids
im in same boat, but i figured it out i got her into golf and shes been golfing with me so now when i do come home after a 5hr 5.5hr rd she knows it was a long round and not to ask me to cut the lawn that day :rofl:

[Timmeh]

Well Anthony I new this post at some point would turn bad with some of your rules. But here is a what I saw today if you watched me as I played in my highschool tour off the first tee from the whites at southbrook I topped my ball into the water only say 30 yards up. I did proceed to walk up and drop and then hit my 7I way to the right. I walked up and swund and duffed another. I proceed to take a 9 on the first hole. Now after all that I went up to number 2 330 yards to the green I stood 10 yards off the green after my drive. If you saw how I played that first hole you would have on your own just told me to leave the course. Meanwhile I still drive the ball 300+ yards. So I agree that you cant tell people what blocks to play after seeing there first drive nevermind there first hole even. I hit the ball now long enough to play from the back decks as I carry my driver 250+ but I dont just cuz I dont feel like it. I think you just need to settle down and just realize your out on the course doing what you love. Atleast that is what it is for me. I have good and bad holes heck today I hit a shot on a par 3 hit the tree landed right next to the green we all saw it walked up and it was gone poof. Normally I would drop it there and chip on. But I had to run back to the tee re-hit tired then duff that cuz i was tired then try and play with 1 club as I hoped i would play well enough to get me to the green. That is my 2 cents Anthony it is by no means an attack but a suggestion to just cool down a bit and just go out and relax.

Tim

[guitarman]

Now after all that I went up to number 2 330 yards to the green I stood 10 yards off the green after my drive.

Tim

Didn't you do that on the same hole on Sunday? I know there was one you drove almost to the green.

[Timmeh]

Ya I did do that on sunday aswell. Haha figures I played worse all around today cuz of that mysterious missing ball. made me take an 8...

Tim

[golf nut]

I just like to be moving on the course. If it is a charity tournament, I understand a slow round, but otherwise I just want a nice even pace. When I see four people walk up a fairway side by side and then stop at the first shot and then all walk and start looking for the next person's ball in the rough, I do get upset. Same with arriving at the turn and see a backup because the course decided to send some groups off or people waiting by the grill or going 200 yards back to the clubhouse.

Sorry that I actually like spending time with my spouse and children and when you add travel time, a 4.5 hour round is 6-7 hours minimum away from home.

I can live with 4.5..... How's that for a compromise???There are an awful lot of "I" in your comments, seems it's all about you, I suppose at the end of the round you simply jump in the car and drive home leaving the other three wondering what the rush was.

get up early Tee off first and you will be home to get your spouse a cup of coffee and get the kiddies breakfast.


I am not a great golfer, but playing in under 4 hours is very easy, even playing multiple balls, hitting it left and right and zigzagging the course.



Most of us play 18 holes .

[sharkhark]

I may not agree with all of anthony's ideas but I am suprised at just how many long time tgn'rs are jumping all over the guy.

The thread is supposed to be how to get a round down to the four hour range. A bunch of people posting in thread popping off about how anthony should just accept a 6hr round and leave the spouse behind blah blah blah. If you do not like his idea, go start a thread on 'love of the 6hr plus round'.

I am sorry, I love golf, every minute. Nothing sadder than when you realize that round is almost over and you are out of holes....but...I hate long golf.

In this day and age most people cannot justify with time constraints, family and kids the half hr to hour or more, each way, plus 6hr round, plus drinks after, plus drive home.
Thats wonderful that so many have popped in to talk about the understanding younglings and wife or husband. But reality is my best friend and i played two rounds together last summer and none this yr so far as his wife is not so understanding.
WOuld he be able to reassure her the round will only be 4 hrs he might be able to but not with the courses these days.

[Cybergolfer]

Where in the rules does it say a round of is 4.5 hours

[sharkhark]

Where in the rules does it say a round of is 4.5 hours

Nowhere....however it has been an expectation since I started playing golf 20 years ago.
Why did it become an expectation? Because almost every single course i play posts on their scorecards, on signs at first hole, in signage on course that you should finish in that time.

FOr example, play pipers heath. Watch as clocks at each hole tell you if you are ahead or behind. Same goes at willow valley and so on, and so on.

PS did a search under yahoo answers ( a growing outlet for common question and answers).
This is what It came up with:

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker

If you play an "average" course 18 holes should take about 4 hours up to 4 1/2 hours is okay.
Playing in under 4 hours is possible if there is no one in front of you and you play fast. I can play 18 holes in under 3 hours walking if I'm alone and one one else is blocking the way.
If you are playing over 5 hours it's a slow round.
If you are playing over 6 hours (I have in some tournaments) it's a nightmare.

I coach high school golf. There is no course where we live so I get a lot of new golfers out for the team. I tell them only one practice swing is allow (my rule - not usga).

Our motto is "Play well or Play fast"

[alien270]

If you play an "average" course 18 holes should take about 4 hours up to 4 1/2 hours is okay.
Playing in under 4 hours is possible if there is no one in front of you and you play fast. I can play 18 holes in under 3 hours walking if I'm alone and one one else is blocking the way.
If you are playing over 5 hours it's a slow round.
If you are playing over 6 hours (I have in some tournaments) it's a nightmare.

I coach high school golf. There is no course where we live so I get a lot of new golfers out for the team. I tell them only one practice swing is allow (my rule - not usga).

Our motto is "Play well or Play fast"


so can i, but really when can you play when theres no one infront of you on the w/e??? try playing alone on the w/e everyone is usually out on 4somes
4.5 hr golf is great. but reality is it never happens on the w/e unless your the first ones out on the course.

you want fast rounds you gotta play during the weekdays or play first thing on the w/e

[sharkhark]

If you play an "average" course 18 holes should take about 4 hours up to 4 1/2 hours is okay.
Playing in under 4 hours is possible if there is no one in front of you and you play fast. I can play 18 holes in under 3 hours walking if I'm alone and one one else is blocking the way.
If you are playing over 5 hours it's a slow round.
If you are playing over 6 hours (I have in some tournaments) it's a nightmare.

I coach high school golf. There is no course where we live so I get a lot of new golfers out for the team. I tell them only one practice swing is allow (my rule - not usga).

Our motto is "Play well or Play fast"


so can i, but really when can you play when theres no one infront of you on the w/e??? try playing alone on the w/e everyone is usually out on 4somes
4.5 hr golf is great. but reality is it never happens on the w/e unless your the first ones out on the course.

you want fast rounds you gotta play during the weekdays or play first thing on the w/e

Wrong! I do not want a 'fast' round. I want a 'fair' time. A fair time which is what all the better courses offer and both expect from players is 4.5 hrs. You are wrong that I should have to be the first player on a course in the middle of the week to expect a 4.5 hr round.

Like i gave as examples pipers heath and willow valled. I can give alot more examples but take those, you can play them any time and that is pretty close to the time it will take.
First time I played WV the marshall pointed out the clocks and asked us to check them each hole we reached. Every time we saw that we were a few minutes behind we picked it up. On one hole we got really behind and there was another marshall at the next hole politely pointing out the time. Asked us to keep up, if having a hard time and necessary to keep up, pick the ball up ( a high handicapper having a hard time was in our group slowing us down). We finished in four hours and 7 minutes.

PS from tpc louisiana
How long should it take to play the course?
TPC Louisiana is rated at 4 hours and 24 minutes for a round of golf for a foursome. This varies depending on cart path restrictions and amount of play on the golf course. For the enjoyment of all of our guests, pace of play is strictly enforced. Slow groups will be monitored to ensure timeliness.

[WILL]

Some decent ideas, and some questionable ones.

The ones I have problems with would be:

2) what if the player was late and didn't get in a proper stretch? It's happened to me where I've hit a terrible tee shot on the first hole and still went on to have a great round. All golfers hit bad shots, and most happen on the first tee shot of the day. They don't call them first tee jitters for nothing. And I don't really think most golfers would appreciate someone untrained in the area of golf instruction telling them which tees to play.

7) unless of course you mean anyone who wasn't smart enough to hit a provisional, then yes, kick them off. I heard from players over the weekend at the Ryder Cup that even if they were pretty sure they'd find their ball a provisional was still hit, just in case the original ball could not be found.

All in all, not bad ideas. With some tweaking they could be reasonable methods to speed up rounds. I'm assuming these are rules for casual rounds? Competitives rounds are an exception and no doubt should have another set of rules to keep these rounds from getting excessively long as well, but you won't get competitive rounds done in 4:15, it just won't happen.



F'em, he was late. He SHOULD have drove faster. :p

[sharkhark]

A Lesson or Round of Golf at a Marriott Hotel & Country Club UK


How long should I allow for this experience?

This will vary depending on whether you choose the lesson or round of golf. The lesson will last approximately 30 minutes and you should allow approximately 4 hours for the round of golf, however this may vary slightly depending on your ability.

[alien270]

i would love 4-4.5 hr rounds but the shat courses i play it just never happens :rolleyes: . i refuse to play w/e golf now because i know all the casual golfers and nubs are out hackin away, and even if im on there tail most will not let you play through.
your comment on willow valley, im not sure if i would appreciate a marshall being on my case especially if im on pace with the people infront of me.
rules of golf allow you 5 minutes to look for your ball and im usually scannning right away and if i dont find it within 2 minutes im dropping.
o well i guess i will be expecting 4.5 hr rds from now on and if i dont get it ill ***** at the golf course?


Wrong! I do not want a 'fast' round. I want a 'fair' time. A fair time which is what all the better courses offer and both expect from players is 4.5 hrs. You are wrong that I should have to be the first player on a course in the middle of the week to expect a 4.5 hr round.

Like i gave as examples pipers heath and willow valled. I can give alot more examples but take those, you can play them any time and that is pretty close to the time it will take.
First time I played WV the marshall pointed out the clocks and asked us to check them each hole we reached. Every time we saw that we were a few minutes behind we picked it up. On one hole we got really behind and there was another marshall at the next hole politely pointing out the time. Asked us to keep up, if having a hard time and necessary to keep up, pick the ball up ( a high handicapper having a hard time was in our group slowing us down). We finished in four hours and 7 minutes.

PS from tpc louisiana
How long should it take to play the course?
TPC Louisiana is rated at 4 hours and 24 minutes for a round of golf for a foursome. This varies depending on cart path restrictions and amount of play on the golf course. For the enjoyment of all of our guests, pace of play is strictly enforced. Slow groups will be monitored to ensure timeliness.

[scan]

You sir are the muckraker and the scurge on the golf course.

As for my OP. You know you are not getting your $25 back and that is the decision you are making when you book...

I am not a great golfer, but playing in under 4 hours is very easy, even playing multiple balls, hitting it left and right and zigzagging the course.

As for the Marshal you guys are so out of line talking about Jim Furyk and bad swings... A bad swing doesn't mean you are a bad or slow golfer. You are way too full of yourselves and your work on the driving range and lessons. A person who goes to the blacks on a hole where let's say there is a 200 yard carry, you can tell as soon as they make contact their skill level and ability. I don't care how rusty you are, you should not be whiffing or grounding the ball off the tees if you are playing back there. And as I said, be my guest, play those tees, but don't fall behind as I said in my OP.

I remember playing with a father/son at Woodensticks and the father who couldn't hit it 200 yards played the back tees (I played a tee deck ahead) and I watched him seldom clear the hazard. Please don't tell me he was having fun. The group ahead had a father with his 15 yo son who also couldn't hit it 200 yards and the son somehow felt compelled to play the back tees with the other three. Sorry if i think this kid was being set up for bad habits down the road.

You are the one ruining the game for many people playing the 5.5 hour round and not caring one bit how slow you play, how much you have set back tee times, ruined the experience for other players behind you and the course in lost revenue and players who will not return. Tell me how you feel showing up for a tee time and being told that your tee time has been delayed 45 minutes because it is playing slow out there? How dare you comment on my post.

Also about the halfway house, i love courses where you can call in your order at the ninth tee. By placing the Halfway house at the 10th tee and no travel required, that saves time too.

I'm full of myself? So because I commented on the sheer arrogance of your post and suggestions you assume:
-I take 5.5 hours to play a round
-I ruin the experience of others
-I am a 'muckraker' and a 'scurge' on the course

You are teh one who is full of yourself. I don't think I've even played a 5.5hour round. I don't know because I don't time myself, and nor will I ever bother, because I would never treat anyone with the arrogance that you've displayed and rush anyone who has spent their hard earned dollars to ENJOY a round of golf. If I ever have a group in front of my playing slower than me, then I just stand way back so they dont' feel they're being rushed, chat with my buds, and wait. You are playing on a public course. If you donj't like it, don't play there. Go play a private course. You know why there are so many public course now? Because of the casual golfers, like myself, and the others who you think should be removed because of their pace.

I'd really like to see your reaction if you were in a situation where you had your suggested rules applied to yourself. i.e. you go to a restaurant and you are charged and extra $25 for taking longer than 45mins to eat.

[Mule56]

Gentlemen take this discussion back to a civil tone so there won't be a health scratch from the TGN line up.
Mule

[Timmeh]

erm maybe its time we all just stop biting at each others necks. In all honesty I know if you go to Herion Point (spelt it wrong I know) at 2 you are done your round at about 3-4.5 hours this is because its a CL course. Only reason I know this is because my friend works there. What he told me is that they dont book every tee time they have enough time. Now a suggestion by my dad was rather then timing how long inbetween each tee-time do it like this. His suggestion is dont let the next group tee-off till the group infront is on the green for the first tee. If that is done it should be a fairly smooth round. Also everyone should just walk to there own ball with in reason I might add. Like dont go standing infront of someone else as they go to shoot or your probly gunna get hurt. Sorry bit of a joke to break the tention a bit maybe. I know I am young and it is hard to listen to me cuz well again I am young. But I do have a decent head on my shoulders and I think really we just gotta stop fighting with each other. Come on I feel as if this is my 2nd family here. So lets stop the fighting and maybe help Anthony as to find ways to get a round in that takes 4:15 hours instead of ripping his head off about the idea. I even remeber when a round only took 4 hours when I caddied for my dad at the age of 10-13. Kinda why I really like the game now. But none the less it is still do-able but we all just gotta work togethor. As I said before I myself dont mind a long round anymore as I played a lot of w/e golf. So NO MORE FIGHTING or else well I dont no NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!

Tim

[Big Shooter]

I may not agree with all of anthony's ideas but I am suprised at just how many long time tgn'rs are jumping all over the guy.

The thread is supposed to be how to get a round down to the four hour range. A bunch of people posting in thread popping off about how anthony should just accept a 6hr round and leave the spouse behind blah blah blah. If you do not like his idea, go start a thread on 'love of the 6hr plus round'.

I am sorry, I love golf, every minute. Nothing sadder than when you realize that round is almost over and you are out of holes....but...I hate long golf.

In this day and age most people cannot justify with time constraints, family and kids the half hr to hour or more, each way, plus 6hr round, plus drinks after, plus drive home.
Thats wonderful that so many have popped in to talk about the understanding younglings and wife or husband. But reality is my best friend and i played two rounds together last summer and none this yr so far as his wife is not so understanding.
WOuld he be able to reassure her the round will only be 4 hrs he might be able to but not with the courses these days.

+1....but for those of us who plan golf as a full-day event, there's no rush....I like that Anthony has taken up the challenge, and this thread certainly has got the board talking/viewing! Reminder, let's not make it PERSONAL, we all know what happens then.... ;)

[Bellyhungry]

.....You've certainly made some good points, but I still have yet to understand your need to be on and off the course with a strict time frame.....isn't it about getting out and just having a good time, and NOT worrying about how long you are out there? Granted I understand it sucks waiting on the tee boxes sometimes, but I'm much happier sitting out on a course for 4 hours or more with buddies as it sure beats sitting at home doing nothing or having to do work around the house. :D


My mindset when it comes to pace of play is more or less similar to above (not that Scott needs anymore people agreeing with him :rolleyes: ).

Playing golf in and out of itself is great for me. Playing in a good pace, to me, is a bonus on top of being able to be out there whacking balls and visualizing my next pure golf shot.

I do appreciate Anthony's post to entice people to give this topic more thoughts.

[Anthony]

I almost forgot the OP and how I couched and commented on the list before providing it.

Now I have figured that just my name must make it open season based on my "out there" views :rolleyes:. Robert Thomas recently commented that the Toronto Golf club will admonish you if the round is over 4 hours. There is a member with the monicker Under4Hours.... Read the comments about golf in the UK and the expectations of 3.5 Hour rounds on St. Andrews and all courses. I just came up with a list that if i was a course owner I'd try and enforce....

I just made some points and some took it as a personal afront. Was not meant to be.

For the record my friends and playing partners I hope enjoy playing with me and I am a decent playing partner helping find balls and making conversation. However if playing with golers who think Ben Crane is how you should approach the game, I have just left them behind, when there is a hole open. Don't feel bad about it at all.

[JEBS]

My mindset when it comes to pace of play is more or less similar to above (not that Scott needs anymore people agreeing with him :rolleyes: ).

Playing golf in and out of itself is great for me. Playing in a good pace, to me, is a bonus on top of being able to be out there whacking balls and visualizing my next pure golf shot.

I do appreciate Anthony's post to entice people to give this topic more thoughts.

I play golf to enjoy and unwind. I do my best to stay well ahead of the group behind me. If it is a slow day and the course is backed up I try to relax and calm down, sometimes I will behind a slow group. I focus on enjoying the round and the company of my group.

If it unerves me so much that I feel I am going to be late than I have to rethink my time management and reasons for golfing that day. If I am going golfing and I have a family committment later that day I am willing to cut my round down If I am going to be late. I would rather have played 9 or 12 or 15 instead of nothing.

What I do not like so much is the aggressive twosome in a power cart expecting the golf course to part like the red sea so they can play through everybody. If I have a group ahead of me on a relatively full course and I am keeping a good pace of play I do not give a rats behind if the people behind me are hell bent on playing speed golf. If anything these guys take away just as much enjoyment as the group of beginners taking 5 20 yard shots to hit a par 3. Too many times I have been infront of these guys who think it is their god given right to play through three or four groups in a row in essence slowng down the course even more. Even worse is when they are constantly firing the ball up your back side thinking that will intimidate you into letting them play through. I used to fire the ball back at them but in this litigious society of ours I have learned to practice my wedge play and just ease the ball OB.

I believe if more people played to enjoy the game instead of trying to set land speed records we would all be better off.

[The Troll]

What surprises me about this conversation, every time it comes up, is the notion that 4 hours is fast and somehow requires rushing.

I was at a members course last year where standard of play on the weekends was 4 to 4:15. Even at that we stood around plenty, had more than ample time to take our time over shots and even sat at the halfway for the time it took the group ahead to play the par 3 tenth.

I don't think 4 hour golf is fast at all.

[scan]

What surprises me about this conversation, every time it comes up, is the notion that 4 hours is fast and somehow requires rushing.

I was at a members course last year where standard of play on the weekends was 4 to 4:15. Even at that we stood around plenty, had more than ample time to take our time over shots and even sat at the halfway for the time it took the group ahead to play the par 3 tenth.

I don't think 4 hour golf is fast at all.

I don't think that is the point. The point, at least for me, is how it is wrong to dictate to people how long they should play. It's like driving. The sign says the max speed limit is X km/h. If someone is going that speed (or even a little lower) and you are in a rush so you want to go 30 km/h over the limit, when that's not really the other person's problem.

The whole intention of my post was to speak for those people who are slower than the average player because I don't believe it would be fair to discriminate against those people who, as some have mentioned already, they may take 5 shots for a par 3, and enforce these ridiculous rules as suggested by the OP to (pretty much) insult them by telling them what tees to play from and have them pay a penalty for playing over 4hrs.

Of course this is just my opinion. I'm confident enough that these rules will never be enforced as they are ludacris and no golf course will ever implement them.

[JEBS]

What surprises me about this conversation, every time it comes up, is the notion that 4 hours is fast and somehow requires rushing.

I was at a members course last year where standard of play on the weekends was 4 to 4:15. Even at that we stood around plenty, had more than ample time to take our time over shots and even sat at the halfway for the time it took the group ahead to play the par 3 tenth.

I don't think 4 hour golf is fast at all.

That would also depend on the course. Some courses are more walking friendly and don't require a ten minute walk between some holes. Take courses like Blue Spings with its slope or Glencairn with the bridge cross over or Grey Silo with some of the walks between holes, I do not think the point of golf is to collapse after walking off the 18th green.

I guess it just comes down to common courtesy. Play ready golf, do not look for a lost ball for 10 minutes and do not let your ego dictate which tee block you tee off from. Instead of the starter telling you what tees you should tee off from maybe they could politely ask you if you understand "ready golf" and if not give them a short primer on the concept and wish them an enjoyable round.

[sharkhark]

A couple of the last posts have finally gotten closer to the point about golf. Who says how long a round of golf should even take?

This is roughly how they come up with that avg. A typical par 72 course full of foursomes on every hole, that don't spend an exhorbitant amt of time looking for balls, ready for their shot rather than just watching each player hit, will finish in about 4-4.5 hrs.

I think everyone is focussing on time, rather than pace of play. Is there anybody here who likes getting to their shot and every single time is forced to stand around for 5-10 minutes waiting for the guys ahead to clear?

You cannot tell me that you have a good pace of play with 6 hr rounds. That means you are walking to next hole and there is 2 or 3 foursomes already waiting there.

[Clevelandfan]

I think a novel branding for a new golf course would be to try to brand itself as the fast golf course where 4hr 15 min is the max time allowable. I'm not sure if it makes business sense as the majority of public players don't play as much as private club members and want to enjoy the whole experience without feeling rushed but then again maybe it would make sense.
For those of you who have played at private courses or are members, you know if you're not playing at that pace, you stand out like a sore thumb and will be told so.

[JEBS]

I think a novel branding for a new golf course would be to try to brand itself as the fast golf course where 4hr 15 min is the max time allowable. I'm not sure if it makes business sense as the majority of public players don't play as much as private club members and want to enjoy the whole experience without feeling rushed but then again maybe it would make sense.
For those of you who have played at private courses or are members, you know if you're not playing at that pace, you stand out like a sore thumb and will be told so.

If you brand a course as beeing fast eventually it will become so popular that it will eventually be slow.

[golfnguru]

If you brand a course as beeing fast eventually it will become so popular that it will eventually be slow.

Then nobody will go there anymore because it is too busy.

As far as golf being an all day event, that's fine, but not all day on the course unless you are playing more than 18.

What's wrong with socializing after. People who stand on the tee and start telling stories when they can hit are a pain in the ***.

[The Troll]

I don't think that is the point. The point, at least for me, is how it is wrong to dictate to people how long they should play.

In my case, I'm not saying how fast people should play. I'm pointing out that 5 hours becomes the norm more because people get conditioned to it taking that long and their routines change to reflect that pace.

I've played golf for a lot of years and 4 hours really isn't all that fast, especially at a members course.

[trunckslammer1]

The next time anyone plays, look around. If you are keeping PACE with the group in FRONT and you DO NOT have to wait to play your next shot, even if it takes 4.5 - 5 hours to play, I think you will enjoy your round.

On the other hand, everytime you go to take a shot, you have to wait and at the end of the round, you find that it took you 4.25 to play. I do not know about others but for me, waiting is far worse then playing in 5 hours.

[Anthony]

Just returned from the course.... Teed off at 9:05, waited on some holes and thought the back nine was slow. We finished at 12:40... Guess what I had time for a beer after, stopped @ the 12th hole Halfway house got a hot dog too and am now back @ work posting letting you know it was one of my partners who felt it was slow and it affected his game on the back nine.

P.S. Happy to see my spouse and kids too....

[bigred]

The next time anyone plays, look around. If you are keeping PACE with the group in FRONT and you DO NOT have to wait to play your next shot, even if it takes 4.5 - 5 hours to play, I think you will enjoy your round.

On the other hand, everytime you go to take a shot, you have to wait and at the end of the round, you find that it took you 4.25 to play. I do not know about others but for me, waiting is far worse then playing in 5 hours.

Hate to tell you, but one of the easiest ways to tell if you're keeping PACE is whether you're waiting on the group in front. If you AREN'T, then guess what, YOU"RE SLOW. You should always be waiting on the group in front of you.

If you get to the next tee and can immediately tee-up then YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

[corchard]

Hate to tell you, but one of the easiest ways to tell if you're keeping PACE is whether you're waiting on the group in front. If you AREN'T, then guess what, YOU"RE SLOW. You should always be waiting on the group in front of you.

If you get to the next tee and can immediately tee-up then YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

Really. So if I choose to allow the group in front of me a little space and finish in 3:30 I'm slow.

[torontodude]

Played Don Valley this morning with 2 older gentleman - all walking. 6:24 am - finished at exactly 10:24.

We waited a few times for the group in front. I'm tired.

[guitarman]

I'm not real crazy about slow rounds either but this constant whining about it is annoying. If you've put up with this problem for any lenght of time then you should be bright enough to know when to go on the course to avoid slow play. For example, first group in the morning, twilight or particular courses that are known to have few golfers out at particular times. Thats what I do when I want to avoid slow rounds.
What I really hate and what bugs me more than a slow group in front of me is jerk-offs behind you thinking they are owed a quick round when it is quite impossible due to the course being backed up.
Several times on Sunday at Southbrook, the group hit in to us even though we were waiting 2 or 3 minutes on every tee. Slow golfers may be annoying but quick golfers like this are dangerous.

[hogannut]

I'm not real crazy about slow rounds either but this constant whining about it is annoying. If you've put up with this problem for any lenght of time then you should be bright enough to know when to go on the course to avoid slow play. For example, first group in the morning, twilight or particular courses that are known to have few golfers out at particular times. Thats what I do when I want to avoid slow rounds.
What I really hate and what bugs me more than a slow group in front of me is jerk-offs behind you thinking they are owed a quick round when it is quite impossible due to the course being backed up.
Several times on Sunday at Southbrook, the group hit in to us even though we were waiting 2 or 3 minutes on every tee. Slow golfers may be annoying but quick golfers like this are dangerous.

Agree. No matter how much you debate this subject the reality is golf takes about an hour longer than it did say 20 years ago. THe reasons why can be discussed longer than it takes to play a 5 hour round, but the reality is golf is a 5 hour experience. If that is to long for anyone, play a shorter golf course or just play 9 holes.

No one likes long rounds, myself included, but 5 hours is a normal pace these days. Most courses will say 4:45 but I always take that with a grain of salt, and who cares about 15 minutes one way or the other.

Occasionally you'll luck out and get a game in under 4:30 but that is a fluke. Unless you are willing to play at the first time in the morning expect to take between 4.5 - 5 hours to play. If you want to play faster, play executive courses, par 3's or go play 9 holes.

[guitarman]

Agree. No matter how much you debate this subject the reality is golf takes about an hour longer than it did say 20 years ago. THe reasons why can be discussed longer than it takes to play a 5 hour round, but the reality is golf is a 5 hour experience. If that is to long for anyone, play a shorter golf course or just play 9 holes.

No one likes long rounds, myself included, but 5 hours is a normal pace these days. Most courses will say 4:45 but I always take that with a grain of salt, and who cares about 15 minutes one way or the other.

Occasionally you'll luck out and get a game in under 4:30 but that is a fluke. Unless you are willing to play at the first time in the morning expect to take between 4.5 - 5 hours to play. If you want to play faster, play executive courses, par 3's or go play 9 holes.

I disagree that 5 hour rounds are the norm if you take the precautions I've listed, There are times when I want to be in and out, on a particular day, fairly quickly. So I choose the time and/or course that is best to accomplish this. Usually I'll have to try and golf alone to accomplish the quickness.
When I golf with others from TGN it is usually during prime time and 5 hour and beyond rounds are the norm. Usually I am enjoying the company of the foursome so much that it doesn't bother me at all. But then like some others here I usually budget the whole day for my golf outing. Life is too short to put time restraints on your self in every aspect of your life. I have enough of that from work and my wife. When I get a chance to get out with the boys for some golf I like to have it so that I'm not rushing back for anything.

[Anthony]

I disagree that 5 hour rounds are the norm if you take the precautions I've listed, There are times when I want to be in and out, on a particular day, fairly quickly. So I choose the time and/or course that is best to accomplish this. Usually I'll have to try and golf alone to accomplish the quickness.
When I golf with others from TGN it is usually during prime time and 5 hour and beyond rounds are the norm. Usually I am enjoying the company of the foursome so much that it doesn't bother me at all. But then like some others here I usually budget the whole day for my golf outing. Life is too short to put time restraints on your self in every aspect of your life. I have enough of that from work and my wife. When I get a chance to get out with the boys for some golf I like to have it so that I'm not rushing back for anything.

No you guys and others have decided 4.5-5 Hours is the norm.... It should be 4:00 or less (okay with 4:15). That was the point of the OP where I listed my thoughts on how to achieve that. No I will not play 9 holes or Execs, I do not like them... It is often up to the course to try and keep the course moving. I played a round last year and at the turn we had to wait 15 minutes for Hot Dogs.... That was unnacceptable (not withstanding it was on a nice summer day). It is not only the increased time, but then the added wait when your tee time has been delayed 45 to 60 minutes because they are backed up or crammed a few extra groups on the sheet.

Everytime I read posts here on TGN events, sounds to me there is plenty of betting and some deliberate play as a result.

[guitarman]

No you guys and others have decided 4.5-5 Hours is the norm....

I haven't decided anything. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it. You may think there is but there aren't enough extremists like you that think its a life and death thing if they don't get off the golf course in 3 or 4 hours. I have read many, many times on this site different suggestions (mainly from you) on what could make it better. Such as increased tee time intervals. Or eliminate food an booze from the course. Many suggestions are made from the perspective of the golfer and not the golf course owner, who is the guy trying to make a living.
And as well if you talk about eliminating alchohol you will lose the support of many golfers who enjoy a beverage on the course, making your crying voice a lot smaller. Basically it doesn't matter how it goes in Scotland or the UK. This is the way it works here. And enough have accepted it that it will stay this way. So you either keep whining about it or you find creative ways to accomplish your quick rounds. It can be done but you're not going to walk on to any course at anytime of day to do it. So instead of wasting your time trying to come up with ways to make quicker rounds at prime time and having it fall on deaf ears, your best to think of ways that you can accomplish quick rounds for your self. It may mean golfing at times you don't want. It may mean golfing course you don't want. It may mean 9 holes instead of 18. You can't have your cake and eat it to.

[corchard]

...Everytime I read posts here on TGN events, sounds to me there is plenty of betting and some deliberate play as a result.

It depends... in the Ryder cup on Sat gr8glfr and I played against the Ottawa boys in something like 3:30. Now some of the balls hit were so far OB that we didn't bother looking for them and just dropped another for penalty. There was no dawdling but still had lots of time to carefully read every putt from multiple spots, take the required practice swings, order girly drinks from the cart girl, grab a sandwich at the turn...

The key was as a group we were always ready to play when it was our turn.

Now if 3 of 4 guys hit just off the fairway and you have to look for all three balls you are going to be a while.

Wait that was my Sunday round.

[Anthony]

I haven't decided anything. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it. You may think there is but there aren't enough extremists like you that think its a life and death thing if they don't get off the golf course in 3 or 4 hours.

No, you have decided and said it is okay to play these long round. I am no extremist, neither are others on this site who enjoy a round in what we consider a very fair time. The OP was just some suggestions.

[WILL]

+1....but for those of us who plan golf as a full-day event, there's no rush....I like that Anthony has taken up the challenge, and this thread certainly has got the board talking/viewing! Reminder, let's not make it PERSONAL, we all know what happens then.... ;)


Im all about the ALL-DAY at the course. I almost never get to play so when I do I don't want to leave the course till I can't see my ball any more. :cookoo:

Keep in mind, I always want to play more than 18 holes. BY no means do I like the idea of playing 18 holes in 6 hours.

Those of you who think your day of golf is ruined by it taking more than 4:15 may as well stay home if you're in that much of a hurry to get back home

[guitarman]

Those of you who think your day of golf is ruined by it taking more than 4:15 may as well stay home if you're in that much of a hurry to get back home

Agreed.

[racmbs]

Everytime I read posts here on TGN events, sounds to me there is plenty of betting and some deliberate play as a result.

We play skins from time to time at TGN events... but if you think that's the main reason for slow play, then you are wrong sir. I've played with people that are just slow by nature, and not deliberate at all....and you know what? It doesn't bother me in the least....because I'm out there to have fun, not clock watch.

I still haven't been able to figure out what your main reason for being so hell bent on playing in under 4 hours is all about....but I would highly suggest staying away from events posted as we certainly won't rush through it, just because you want to be done in under 4 hours as you won't have any fun at them.

[musky_hunter]

I figure my average 18 is around 4.5-5 hours....I've yet to finish a round under 4!

[trunckslammer1]

Just returned from the course.... Teed off at 9:05, waited on some holes and thought the back nine was slow. We finished at 12:40... Guess what I had time for a beer after, stopped @ the 12th hole Halfway house got a hot dog too and am now back @ work posting letting you know it was one of my partners who felt it was slow and it affected his game on the back nine.

P.S. Happy to see my spouse and kids too....

I see. Played at 9.05 on a Wednesday. Finished the round in 3.35 hours. How many golfers have the luxury of playing at this time. They do not have flexible hours.
I myself, when I was hard pressed for time with a young family and want to play on weekends, will always tee off before 7am. Usually the round will be 3-3.5 hours, public or private courses. Nowadays, if I want to play a fast round, I play weekdays. On weekends, for a fast round, play an hour before twilight. The course will be wide open. Even at the private course that I was a member, I used to bring my daughter at 2 pm on weekends and you can shot a cannon through the place. We can take all the time we want as we are probably about the only golfers out there.
Anthony, you quoted Toronto Golf. There are so few members there that a member do not need to book any tee times during the week if a member wants to play or bring guests, they just show up. Private courses like Donalda, Islington, Credit Valley put through 30,000+ rounds a year, and they have the same issues with slow play during the weekend peak playing times of 8am to 10am.
Like GM said, slow play is here, just pick the spots you want if you dislke it so much, like traffic during peak hours, if you do not have to drive during that time, DON'T.

[Anthony]

The first tee time available today was 9:00 am according to my partner who booked and there were threesomes and foursomes ahead of us. So we were following others the entire time. I saw the foursome off ahead of us and they played in 3:55 Hours, so yes we were 20 minutes faster then them.

As for Donalda, I have friends and family who are members and they have some very specific rules in their bible (handbook) about pace of play and how they will handle those who do abuse them (i.e. rounds over 4.5 hours). And yes I know about Toronto Golf and was only quoting Robert Thompson and was going to respond to his post about how the course is virtually empty always (I have a partner overlooking the course and often stare out the windows enviously at the empty course).

You are probably right that I will stay away from TGN Events as I can see I am Persona Non Grata with such outrageous statements such as playing a round in 4:00 hours, so thanks for the warning.

[racmbs]

You are probably right that I will stay away from TGN Events as I can see I am Persona non grata with such outrageous statements such as playing a round in 4:00 hours, so thanks for the warning.

Nobody wants you to stay away...but certainly wouldn't want someone taking part who'd be p!ssed off the entire day because it took more than 4:01 to complete his round, and upset the group he's playing in because he'd be fit to be tied. These events are geared towards people getting out to have a good time, maybe catch a bite afterwards and shoot the breeze about whatever comes to mind....and for those who played skins, enough time to brag about the big win and gloat a little. :D

Enjoy your rounds Anthony, even if they take more than 4 hours. It's supposed to be fun, not stressful....

[WILL]

:D

Enjoy your rounds Anthony, even if they take more than 4 hours. It's supposed to be fun, not stressful....



Not only that, work gets in the way far too often. Take time to smell the roses when you're out doin what you love. You'll enjoy it even more.

[scan]

Im all about the ALL-DAY at the course. I almost never get to play so when I do I don't want to leave the course till I can't see my ball any more. :cookoo:

Keep in mind, I always want to play more than 18 holes. BY no means do I like the idea of playing 18 holes in 6 hours.

Those of you who think your day of golf is ruined by it taking more than 4:15 may as well stay home if you're in that much of a hurry to get back home

Couldn't have said it better myself. Glad to see not everyone is an impatient extremist.

[WDM1980]

I hate waiting; I absolutely hate it; I can't fully describe the degree to which I hate waiting for anything.

I've had to black list a few courses due to slow play - Royal Woodbine being at the top.

A reasonable pace of play, at say, a 4.5 hour round, should minizmize any worries about rounds taking forever. Here's the issue: courses need to maintain their set pace in order to get all rounds in. If one group is slow, that creates an infinitely long line where people will literally wait forever (those that understand queing theory know what I mean). So, it's in the course's best interest to keep the pace of play up to what they have booked; otherwise, they end up with people who get pissed off because the sun sets while they're on the 15th hole.

I realized this after a game at hidden lake on Sunday. I was in a twosome following a foursome. They were slow - all walking together and never ready for their shot when it was their turn; this was made worse for us by the fact that we were a twosome and had to wait on EVERY shot. No marshal ever said a thing to this group even though they were 1.5 holes behind the group in front. This happened to me there last year - the marshal finally got us to play through after the 14th hole.

Courses have a choice to make - it's not an absolute "fast" or "slow" designation; they can choose to have lots of flow through by having faster play (litle waiting); they can choose to have slower play with the same number of people (lots of waiting); they can choose to have slower play with fewer people; or they can choose faster play with fewer people (more $$).

Courses can decide what they are willing to do and will attract golfers who want that sort of play. At Loyalist Country Club (public course in Kingston), they once kicked a group of 4 gentleman off the course for playing the front 9 in 2:45. That's a choice they make - to prioritize speed.

I don't like being rushed or rushing; however, I also know that I can do a round in about 4 hours without rushing. I'm not an absolutist when it comes to 4 hour rounds; otherwise, I'd never play. Just keep it under 4:45; that should have minimal waiting. It's a relaxing round and I have fun.

[trunckslammer1]

As for Donalda, I have friends and family who are members and they have some very specific rules in their bible (handbook) about pace of play and how they will handle those who do abuse them (i.e. rounds over 4.5 hours).

Even at my former club (North Halton) they are implementing a new policy. If your group take more then 4.5 hours to play a round, after a warning, you will be suspended for 2 weeks. You know, If I were still a member, I might just do it so that I get suspended, then I will get my lawyer to see what my rights are as a full member. Handbooks are great, they are suggestions and legal rights take precedance over them.

Morally yes, legally, I think not.

[bigred]

The first tee time available today was 9:00 am according to my partner who booked and there were threesomes and foursomes ahead of us. So we were following others the entire time. I saw the foursome off ahead of us and they played in 3:55 Hours, so yes we were 20 minutes faster then them.

As for Donalda, I have friends and family who are members and they have some very specific rules in their bible (handbook) about pace of play and how they will handle those who do abuse them (i.e. rounds over 4.5 hours). And yes I know about Toronto Golf and was only quoting Robert Thompson and was going to respond to his post about how the course is virtually empty always (I have a partner overlooking the course and often stare out the windows enviously at the empty course).

You are probably right that I will stay away from TGN Events as I can see I am Persona Non Grata with such outrageous statements such as playing a round in 4:00 hours, so thanks for the warning.

It's a helluva lot easier to deal with pace of play issues at private clubs vs. public golf courses. So comparing your pace at a private club to the general pace of play at a public golf course is completely unfair.

Even at my former club (North Halton) they are implementing a new policy. If your group take more then 4.5 hours to play a round, after a warning, you will be suspended for 2 weeks. You know, If I were still a member, I might just do it so that I get suspended, then I will get my lawyer to see what my rights are as a full member. Handbooks are great, they are suggestions and legal rights take precedance over them.

Morally yes, legally, I think not.


Many clubs do this. And they are fully entitled to. Most private clubs have numerous boards/committees to address such issues, and I'm sure it'd be in your admittance papers that you are required to adhere to the rules of the club. I'd like to know what legal rights you would have?

[alien270]

played flamborough hills today started at 1130 finished at 4
we were a group of two, the first few holes we got behind an older couple on carts and we thought they were slow as we were waiting to hit, however we got to 3 par 3s that are consecutive and everything was bottled neck at that point we then realized it wasnt the golfers that was slow but it was the course set up that was causing slow play.
anyhow on the back 9 we had a 4some behind us who were all on carts and were older gentlemens and these guys had no patience, we end up waiting 4-5 mins each hole before we can tee off but as soon as these guys get on the box there firing away when were only 225-250 yards ahead of them
i was putting on the green and one of the idiots fired at the green:cookoo:
next hole it was dogleg and he fired a blind shot when my partner and i was almost hit, i couldnt stand it no more and put my hands up and said wtf
they drove up and apologized, but seriously had these guys been younger i would have fired there ball right back at them.
i cant stand impatient people who shoot while im still in there range
so there it is it was a slow round but still managed to finished inside 4.5-5 hrs
stuck all day behind older peeps who drive 200 yrds
but hey i played good shot my best round as i just enjoyed my time on the course instead of worrying about the time

[guitarman]

played flamborough hills today started at 1130 finished at 4
we were a group of two, the first few holes we got behind an older couple on carts and we thought they were slow as we were waiting to hit, however we got to 3 par 3s that are consecutive and everything was bottled neck at that point we then realized it wasnt the golfers that was slow but it was the course set up that was causing slow play.
anyhow on the back 9 we had a 4some behind us who were all on carts and were older gentlemens and these guys had no patience, we end up waiting 4-5 mins each hole before we can tee off but as soon as these guys get on the box there firing away when were only 225-250 yards ahead of them
i was putting on the green and one of the idiots fired at the green:cookoo:
next hole it was dogleg and he fired a blind shot when my partner and i was almost hit, i couldnt stand it no more and put my hands up and said wtf
they drove up and apologized, but seriously had these guys been younger i would have fired there ball right back at them.
i cant stand impatient people who shoot while im still in there range
so there it is it was a slow round but still managed to finished inside 4.5-5 hrs
stuck all day behind older peeps who drive 200 yrds
but hey i played good shot my best round as i just enjoyed my time on the course instead of worrying about the time

Thats exactly my point about idiots that are frustrated because they can't play faster. So they start hitting in to you even though there is nothing you can do about it.

[Anthony]

Okay I get it!!! There are a # who are content with the 5+ Hour round... Good for you... You won't be happy and don't like my suggestions on the op.

Don't worry about me, I have been very fortunate and do find and play the vast majority of my rounds in under 4:15.

I have taken names as I am sure you have and if I ever am on Finding Playing Partners, I am sure you will steer clear of me as I will of you...

Peace out...

[guitarman]

Don't worry about me, I have been very fortunate and do find and play the vast majority of my rounds in under 4:15.



So then your just one of those guys that likes to whine about nothing?

[Big Shooter]

played the New 18 @ Woodington, started at 1030, finished at 315, no one on the course (only saw 1 other group), played skins & greenies, on a track none of us had played, no GPS, and no pocket pro/guides, just used the yard markers & LOGIC. :cool:
Left Toronto @ 9am, home by 430pm. PERFECT. :)

[The Troll]

While you boyz were hashing this out all day I was out playing my best round in three years....and only took 3:50. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Timmeh]

ya so NO SOUP FOR ANY OF YOU. I say stop the fighting and you guys kick it up 2 more notches. Many ppl I know have being on the course for more then 4hours not cuz they hate the game just they dont have the time or dont want to take all day. I personally can spend all day I love golfing its my life and habbit. I think we need to understand anthony and others wish to play at that pace and let them and stop b*tching at them for it. maybe its time to lock this one up do to all the hattred. Just my 2 cents as usual.

Tim

[golfnguru]

So then your just one of those guys that likes to whine about nothing?

I fail to see what value comments like this have.

Here is his orginal post. He isn't whining. He had some ideas.


In another thread I was asked to come up with a plan (tongue in cheek) to get people to complete rounds in under 4 hours.... I have amended it to a maximum of 4:15... In that thread I was told if I could do it then I'd get free rounds for life.... So heres that list...

1. The first two hours of tee times will include a $25 surcharge, refundable if you complete the round in under 4 hours. 90% of early golfers do so because they have responsibilities back home and want 4 hour rounds.

2. Marshal assesses each player off the tee and explains that you must play the proper tee deck. You know from the first swing whether the golfer should be playing black, gold, blue or white. You warn those playing the wrong tee box that they are welcome to continue from those tee boxes, but will be asked to leave if they fall behind.

3. Ready golf. It is easy to spot those nassau and skins players obsessing over each shot and playing in turn. Again if they fall behind, you tell them they are on the clock and will be asked to leave after 9 (no refund). Go ahead and bet, but don't slow the game down for others.

4. A novel approach after the rabbits are out for those first 2 hours... 8 minute tee times but every 5th is empty so there is no back-up with players following points 2 & 3.

5. Have a Marshal at a few strategic holes where there are lost balls or heavy rough to help in search for the wayward tee shot.

6. Local rules to speed up play, i.e. lateral hazard definitions and very liberal drop areas.

7. Kick anyone off the course who searches for their ball, does not find it and goes back to the tee to hit 3.

Any merit???
http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/images_greenish/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/images_greenish/buttons/report.gif (http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/report.php?p=255764) http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/images_greenish/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=255764)
(http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=255764)

[guitarman]

I fail to see what value comments like this have.

Here is his orginal post. He isn't whining. He had some ideas.


He has started more than his share of threads complaining about slow pace, slow golfers, blah blah blah. Then he ends his last post with Don't worry about me, I have been very fortunate and do find and play the vast majority of my rounds in under 4:15. WTF is he complaining about then.

[scan]

ya so NO SOUP FOR ANY OF YOU. I say stop the fighting and you guys kick it up 2 more notches. Many ppl I know have being on the course for more then 4hours not cuz they hate the game just they dont have the time or dont want to take all day. I personally can spend all day I love golfing its my life and habbit. I think we need to understand anthony and others wish to play at that pace and let them and stop b*tching at them for it. maybe its time to lock this one up do to all the hattred. Just my 2 cents as usual.

Tim

No one is discriminating him for wanting to play fast and finish a round in 4 hours, but his way about it is basically insulting to others on the course who are in front or behind him even with him (as he said he'll leave someone on a hole if they take too long).

[Anthony]

No one is discriminating him for wanting to play fast and finish a round in 4 hours, but his way about it is basically insulting to others on the course who are in front or behind him even with him (as he said he'll leave someone on a hole if they take too long).

Yes I dislike with a passion slow play. I am okay at times if I am in a scramble and will accept it. If there is an open hole ahead because 2 in our group have already forced us to fall 15 minutes behind after 4 holes, I have no problem leaving them.

As for GM.... Let's agree to disagree, I understand you have never posted anything that was not the truth, 100% correct and have never been wrong... I respect that of you. But of course you still haven't acknowledged the OP where I explained what I was doing and why I posted.

[guitarman]

As for GM.... Let's agree to disagree, I understand you have never posted anything that was not the truth, 100% correct and have never been wrong... I respect that of you. But of course you still haven't acknowledged the OP where I explained what I was doing and why I posted.

I just don't understand why you expend so much energy on this issue when as you say "the vast majority of your rounds are played in an acceptable time".
I understand why you started this thread and the purpose of the OP. I don't understand why you take the time to address a problem that you don't experience the vast majority of the time.

[Bellyhungry]

Just sharing my experience....

My walking 3some teed off this morning at Lakeview as the first group out at 7 am.

The course sent a riding 4some out in front of us and we found out that they were course employees. They were slow players and we were stuck behind them from the first hole.

At the 5th hole, the marshall showed up and we told them our concern. He went up to them and asked them to pick up the pace and let us through at the turn.

The marshall also requested that we not to play at a pace that would finish under 3 hour for the maintenence crew were still working on some of the holes.

We finished the front 9 in 1 hour 50 minutes despite the hold up. In the back 9, we finished in 1 hour 20 minutes, for a total of 3 hour and 10 minutes.

We weren't exactly rushing and we actually putt out every holes. The group started right behind us ended up 2 holes behind.

[Spottswoode]

I played a public course in Belfast N.Ireland last year. I was the first guy out on my own at like 9am and was just strolling the course and taking my time to begin with. After about 6 holes, these 2 walkers behind me caught up to me and rided my tail for the rest of the round. I ended up playing 18 holes, walking, in 1:45. :rofl::rofl:
I almost felt like I didn't get my money's worth.

[guitarman]

I played a public course in Belfast N.Ireland last year. I was the first guy out on my own at like 9am and was just strolling the course and taking my time to begin with. After about 6 holes, these 2 walkers behind me caught up to me and rided my tail for the rest of the round. I ended up playing 18 holes, walking, in 1:45. :rofl::rofl:
I almost felt like I didn't get my money's worth.

If they were rushing you, why didn't you just let them play through? If 2 guys were rushing you then that would mean they would have been able to finish in less time than 1:45. Is that what people want? To plunk down $100 for a round and finish in an hour?

[Pingnut]

If they were rushing you, why didn't you just let them play through? If 2 guys were rushing you then that would mean they would have been able to finish in less time than 1:45. Is that what people want? To plunk down $100 for a round and finish in an hour?

Amazing isn't it? Some people want to minimize the amount of times they hit the ball as well! :rofl: :D

[Spottswoode]

If they were rushing you, why didn't you just let them play through? If 2 guys were rushing you then that would mean they would have been able to finish in less time than 1:45. Is that what people want? To plunk down $100 for a round and finish in an hour?

at the time, i didn't really feel rushed at all. It wasn't until I was done the round that I realized how short of a time it had taken to play. Also, it was a pretty cheap course, I think it cost me like 25 pounds to play it.

[guitarman]

Amazing isn't it? Some people want to minimize the amount of times they hit the ball as well! :rofl: :D

If you assess the amount of times I hit the ball by what I pay per round its cheaper then the driving range for me.

[scan]

Yes I dislike with a passion slow play. I am okay at times if I am in a scramble and will accept it. If there is an open hole ahead because 2 in our group have already forced us to fall 15 minutes behind after 4 holes, I have no problem leaving them.

As for GM.... Let's agree to disagree, I understand you have never posted anything that was not the truth, 100% correct and have never been wrong... I respect that of you. But of course you still haven't acknowledged the OP where I explained what I was doing and why I posted.

I have acknowledged your OP. I know why you made it but my comments are towards the arrogance behind some of the suggestions

[guitarman]

Amazing isn't it? Some people want to minimize the amount of times they hit the ball as well! :rofl: :D

Hollywood should have made the new raiders of the lost ark (and any other movie they make) 30 minutes long so we can get in and out of the theater quickly to spend more time at home or doing other things.
Restaraunts should serve half of food they normally serve so that we are not wasting so much time in there.
This is just a start to the list. Can anyone else add some suggestions on cutting down the time we spend on other things that we enjoy in our daily lives. I'm sure there are more ways we can find to cut down on all the time we spend doing the things we enjoy.

[golfnguru]

Hollywood should have made the new raiders of the lost ark (and any other movie they make) 30 minutes long so we can get in and out of the theater quickly to spend more time at home or doing other things.
Restaraunts should serve half of food they normally serve so that we are not wasting so much time in there.
This is just a start to the list. Can anyone else add some suggestions on cutting down the time we spend on other things that we enjoy in our daily lives. I'm sure there are more ways we can find to cut down on all the time we spend doing the things we enjoy.

Premature ejaculation

[guitarman]

Premature ejaculation

I was going to mention something along these lines earlier. That these quick golfers that like to be in and out must have suffering wives. But I didn't want to be rude.

[Anthony]

I was going to mention something along these lines earlier. That these quick golfers that like to be in and out must have suffering wives. But I didn't want to be rude.

As opposed to the wives having affairs knowing their husbands are gone for 12 hours on the golf course and have little interest in getting home??? Two can play at that game my friend...

[guitarman]

As opposed to the wives having affairs knowing their husbands are gone for 12 hours on the golf course and have little interest in getting home??? Two can play at that game my friend...

Yeah but no matter how you slice it only the "quick" golfers wife is not being satisfied.

[Bellyhungry]

Yeah but no matter how you slice it only the "quick" golfers wife is not being satisfied.

G-man, you are so baaad :rofl:

Very clever, nevertheless....

[racmbs]

As opposed to the wives having affairs knowing their husbands are gone for 12 hours on the golf course and have little interest in getting home??? Two can play at that game my friend...

Oh give me a friggin break already....

[golfnguru]

Yeah but no matter how you slice it only the "quick" golfers wife is not being satisfied.

Not just quick golfer's wives.

Also wives of golfers who pull it.

[racmbs]

Not just quick golfer's wives.

Also wives of golfers who pull it.

You could be onto something here....

Get's me to thinking....could "activites" the night before the big game, lead to slow play because the brain is mush?

[WILL]

Slice it or pull it, either way it aint goin deep. :rolleyes:

[Big Shooter]

Played Silver Lakes this afternoon (415pm-810pm) with another TGN'r (Bobogo) in just under 4 hours...WALKED!!! :cool:

[Bellyhungry]

Played Silver Lakes this afternoon (415pm-810pm) with another TGN'r (Bobogo) in just under 4 hours...WALKED!!! :cool:

TWO people walking at Silver Lake in 4 houts is painfully long. At most it should be 3 to 3:20.

[Big Shooter]

TWO people walking at Silver Lake in 4 houts is painfully long. At most it should be 3 to 3:20.