GLEN ABBEY.....AGAIN....YAWN

[hogannut]

Is it just me or does anyone else out there have less interest in the Canadian Open being it is at Glenn Abbey.....again?!:confused: I would love to see the RCGA be a bit more creative in their venue selections. With so many beautiful and challenging golf courses Canada has to offer it is a shame the RCGA doesn't use those courses too. Like I said in my qualifier thread I think Rattlesnake is better challenge than Glen Abbey.

I'd love to see a Canadian Open on say PEI, or BC, or Alberta. Great courses in those provinces. If the best we as a country can come up with is ANgus Glen and Glen Abbey it is pretty pathetic IMO.

[golfnguru]

I think Rattlesnake is better challenge than Glen Abbey.



How do you figure?

Glen Abbey is 140 slope, Rattlesnake courses are 133/134.

[Golfing in Ottawa]

Is it just me or does anyone else out there have less interest in the Canadian Open being it is at Glenn Abbey.....again?!:confused: I would love to see the RCGA be a bit more creative in their venue selections. With so many beautiful and challenging golf courses Canada has to offer it is a shame the RCGA doesn't use those courses too. Like I said in my qualifier thread I think Rattlesnake is better challenge than Glen Abbey.

I'd love to see a Canadian Open on say PEI, or BC, or Alberta. Great courses in those provinces. If the best we as a country can come up with is ANgus Glen and Glen Abbey it is pretty pathetic IMO.

Have the same feelings, but as previously mentioned Corporate Canada will dictate that the Cdn Open will always be held in the business centres of GTA, Montreal , and Vancouver. Agreed back to back Glen Abbey is ridiculous............:cookoo: 2010 at St. George will be a nice change and hopefully will boost some interest. Then likely it will be Montreal's turn to host in 2011. Was going to be the new Terrabonne course but looks like business issues are delaying the new course......Royal Montreal might step in as they are fresh off a tremendous success in hosting the Presidents Cup.
As for the great other courses outside the metro centres in PEI, BC, Alberta they will have to be content in showcasing their venues with the Telus Skins game events.

[akrus]

I've played both (Rattlesnake - excuse my decision to merge your two threads...) and prefer the Abbey.

As for why it's held there often, well there's a ton of reasons I'm sure:

- it's a "private" course where it's members don't mind loosing the course for 2+ weeks due to the fact they can go elsewhere;
- it's got the facilities, relatively close guest parking, lots of hotels in the area, major airport not far away, etc
- it's got variety in the elevation changes (Rattlesnake its too flat/boring, IMO - mind you I've only played 2 of the 9's...)

I don't really get why everyone always hates on Glen Abbey (other than the premium price to play it, that is...). I have only played it once, but thought it was fun.

[The Troll]

I don't really get why everyone always hates on Glen Abbey

It wasn't built for a draw. :cool:

[akrus]

It wasn't built for a draw. :cool:

HA! :rofl:

But there are rabbits there...

[Frank101]

I've played both (Rattlesnake - excuse my decision to merge your two threads...) and prefer the Abbey.

As for why it's held there often, well there's a ton of reasons I'm sure:

- it's a "private" course where it's members don't mind loosing the course for 2+ weeks due to the fact they can go elsewhere;
- it's got the facilities, relatively close guest parking, lots of hotels in the area, major airport not far away, etc
- it's got variety in the elevation changes (Rattlesnake its too flat/boring, IMO - mind you I've only played 2 of the 9's...)

I don't really get why everyone always hates on Glen Abbey (other than the premium price to play it, that is...). I have only played it once, but thought it was fun.

And of course, fun makes it a worthy design for the PGA tour. :p

[Bellyhungry]

I've played both (Rattlesnake - excuse my decision to merge your two threads...) and prefer the Abbey.

As for why it's held there often, well there's a ton of reasons I'm sure:

- it's a "private" course where it's members don't mind loosing the course for 2+ weeks due to the fact they can go elsewhere;
- it's got the facilities, relatively close guest parking, lots of hotels in the area, major airport not far away, etc
- it's got variety in the elevation changes (Rattlesnake its too flat/boring, IMO - mind you I've only played 2 of the 9's...)

I don't really get why everyone always hates on Glen Abbey (other than the premium price to play it, that is...). I have only played it once, but thought it was fun.

I played Abbey last week, the rough was really long. With the rain last night, I can only imagine it to be nightmarish this week.

I do agree with others that it is not comparable to the other PGA Tour stops. But this is the only CDN Open course that I get to play in addition to Angus Glen.

As for comparing Abbey to Ratle Snake Point. I agree that it is still ahead of either one of Copperhead or Sidewinder.

[The Troll]

But there are rabbits there...

But they are all in the right side of the fairway. :cool:

[davepratt]

You also got to be near a heavily populated area to draw the crowds.

[akrus]

And of course, fun makes it a worthy design for the PGA tour. :p

Maybe boring (Rattlesnake) does???

But they are all in the right side of the fairway. :cool:

50 yards right of that and they're in your wheelhouse... :p

[The Troll]

50 yards right of that and they're in your wheelhouse... :p

You mean left. :hyper:

[akrus]

You mean left. :hyper:

No... oddly enough, you seem to go right, to go left - did you forget???

LOL!!! :D

[rbaker]

I think they should have the Canadian Open at Wyndance.

[Big Shooter]

I think they should have the Canadian Open at Wyndance.

...and we'd all be FORCED to take the 407!!?? :cookoo:

Like I said in my qualifier thread I think Rattlesnake is better challenge than Glen Abbey.

Rattlesnake? What r u smoking? :$:p

[The Troll]

No... oddly enough, you seem to go right, to go left - did you forget???


Ya, but rabbits can't fly, well, except for the one Wilbur hit. He flew real good. :cool:

[Deuce66]

How do you figure?

Glen Abbey is 140 slope, Rattlesnake courses are 133/134.

slope means nothing to guys with a +5 to +10 index - slope is a difficulty measurement for bogey golfers, the actual course rating might be a better indicator of difficulty for scratch + players - I'm pretty sure Abbey beats out Rattlesnake on course rating from the tips also + the Abbey has some special tees that are used for the Open

[JEBS]

I like the abbey from a fan perspective. Jack did desigb it to be a stadium course. I have a lot of great memories from when my Dad or Grandpa took me to the open. Following Trevino was an all time great memory for me, when atheletes had some respect for their fans.

[McBogey]

well wait for 21010 when they come to St Georges, parking will be at Islington and shuttle to the course, the driving range will be in the Eglinton Flats across from Scarlett Woods, the players are going to love that!

[golferboy]

Would I pay to play Abbey...no. Would I pay to watch the pros this week play Abbey....yes.

looking forward to St Georges in 2010 though.....

[Big Shooter]

I like the abbey from a fan perspective. Jack did designed it to be a stadium course.

...and with the inherent infrastructure, that's why they keep going back! ;)

[Golfing in Ottawa]

...and with the inherent infrastructure, that's why they keep going back! ;)

And whats wrong with Royal Montreal............??? Has previously hosted Cdn Open.........and hosted a tournament last Fall you might have heard of in which the Top Players actually showed up............its called The Presidents Cup.........:D

[lhsteve]

I think they should have the Canadian Open at Wyndance.

WYNDANCE,

Are you kidding me???

Played there a couple of weeks ago and found it most disappointing. Definately not worthy of the hype it gets from Clublink!!

[Big Shooter]

And whats wrong with Royal Montreal............??? Has previously hosted Cdn Open.........and hosted a tournament last Fall you might have heard of in which the Top Players actually showed up............its called The Presidents Cup.........:D

1. Too close to YOU, too far away from US (and U.S.) ;)
2. Big Names showed up, BIG CROWDS did not! :$
3. Language Barrier. :$
4. So, if it was @ Royal Montreal in this same week, there would be a better field? Riiiiiight! :rolleyes:

[blade_runner]

You also got to be near a heavily populated area to draw the crowds.

Aha! That would make Tam O'Shanter or Centennial Park GC the obvious choices:rofl: :rofl:

[Bellyhungry]

1. Too close to YOU, too far away from US (and U.S.) ;)
2. Big Names showed up, BIG CROWDS did not! :$
3. Language Barrier. :$
4. So, if it was @ Royal Montreal in this same week, there would be a better field? Riiiiiight! :rolleyes:

5. Tiger does not like it
6. Apparently traffic is still a mess

[akrus]

5. Tiger does not like it
6. Apparently traffic is still a mess

Tiger who?????

[Andru]

While I agree and perhaps your comment was meant more to stir up the pot. but I think you left out some major details.The RCGA is hosting the next two at GA because 1) NO one else with a championship golf course is stepping up. Hamilton, Royal Montreal etc. What should they do cancel it?

You need more than a nice golf course to set up a pga tour stop

1) A nice golf course isn't necessarily a championship golf course. Say what you want about abbey it can be made to play very tough.
2) The date on the schedule sucks. The week after the Open Champ. How many pros are going to travel from the UK to say Vancouver or Alberta?
3) The People who own the course may not want a Can Open. The RCGA can't just force it's way in.
4) PEI would be great and Eastern Canada woudl throw it's mighty weight behind the event for sure. Seriously though the US Open is in major areas for a reason.

I have no doubt the good people at the RCGA are trying very hard to make the best of a difficult situation. Yes much of this is their own doing, some of it is not. Moaning about the Abbey (which is a great spectator course BTW) is just bothersome.

I am looking forward to Royal St Georges in a couple years.
Is it just me or does anyone else out there have less interest in the Canadian Open being it is at Glenn Abbey.....again?!:confused: I would love to see the RCGA be a bit more creative in their venue selections. With so many beautiful and challenging golf courses Canada has to offer it is a shame the RCGA doesn't use those courses too. Like I said in my qualifier thread I think Rattlesnake is better challenge than Glen Abbey.

I'd love to see a Canadian Open on say PEI, or BC, or Alberta. Great courses in those provinces. If the best we as a country can come up with is ANgus Glen and Glen Abbey it is pretty pathetic IMO.

I think they should have the Canadian Open at Wyndance.
Not A chance Wyndance is too easy they'd kill that place and besides it's kind of ugly. It needs about 10 years to fill in.

[focal]

coppinwood would make a nice track, but i don't think the members are crazy about the idea yet. it's a member's first club and loosing it for 2 plus weeks, plus playing in Open conditions for most of the year would take away from the atmosphere and fun of the place.

National doesn't need it either and until they change their "men's only" policy, it won't get it either.

Wyndance is just too easy off the tee for the pro's. it can be made "long" but the fairways are too generous for the pro's. Do you really want your home course *******ized with heavy rough?

[RobertThompson]

Coppinwood would have taken the 2010 Open -- that's a fact. Owners were keen on it and see it as giving back to the game.

[focal]

Coppinwood would have taken the 2010 Open -- that's a fact. Owners were keen on it and see it as giving back to the game.

played it on the weekend and it would make a great venue... maybe 2011?

The member that invited us, mentioned that the membership weren't in a rush to commit to it...maybe I heard wrong.

[Golfing in Ottawa]

1. Too close to YOU, too far away from US (and U.S.) ;)
2. Big Names showed up, BIG CROWDS did not! :$
3. Language Barrier. :$
4. So, if it was @ Royal Montreal in this same week, there would be a better field? Riiiiiight! :rolleyes:

Glad you know your facts Shooootah........:rolleyes:

(1) Too far away from U.S., go to your google earth...........;)
(2) Big Crowds did not show up...........Where the heck did you get that one........??? Presidents Cup was sold-out Thursday-Sunday with 35,000 attendance..........
(3) Language Barrier........hmmm alot of thought in that comment?? Have you ever been to West Island, Ille Blizzard where Royal Montreal is located. Mostly English. Heard ALOT more English being spoken by fans at Presidents Cup than French.
(4) Never said there would be a better field if it was held the same week. Only wondering why two-years in a row a Glen Abbey and then staying in the GTA at St. George for 2010.

[kookie]

I played Glen Abbey last fall for the first time. Before that day, I always thought Glen Abbey was this awesome golf course but after playing it, I was disappointed. I played from the Black tees and I thought it wasn't too difficult (unless there is a huge difference between Black and Gold tees). I can image the tour pros get bored with the layout.

A guy I was playing with who was a 2 handicap was destroying the course. He was hitting driver wedge on almost every par 4 and was back-handing 3-4 footer's for pars in the hole.

What other course's have been considered in the GTA for the Canadian Open?

[Golfing in Ottawa]

5. Tiger does not like it
6. Apparently traffic is still a mess

5. True....Tiger has not done well at RMGC. I would say with the exception of a few bad shots and Weir playing over his head Tiger would have won the singles matchplay. This is a none issue because folks.......TIGER WILL NEVER PLAY ANOTHER PGA or INTERNATIONAL EVENT IN CANADA...........

6. Traffic is much better than previous years. They were very organized with City buses running to the large parking "hydro easement" area just off the Trans Canada. Some people who had purchased parking closer to the course on the Island had some trouble getting on and off the Island.

[hogannut]

While I agree and perhaps your comment was meant more to stir up the pot. but I think you left out some major details.The RCGA is hosting the next two at GA because 1) NO one else with a championship golf course is stepping up. Hamilton, Royal Montreal etc. What should they do cancel it?

You need more than a nice golf course to set up a pga tour stop

1) A nice golf course isn't necessarily a championship golf course. Say what you want about abbey it can be made to play very tough.
2) The date on the schedule sucks. The week after the Open Champ. How many pros are going to travel from the UK to say Vancouver or Alberta?
3) The People who own the course may not want a Can Open. The RCGA can't just force it's way in.
4) PEI would be great and Eastern Canada woudl throw it's mighty weight behind the event for sure. Seriously though the US Open is in major areas for a reason.

I have no doubt the good people at the RCGA are trying very hard to make the best of a difficult situation. Yes much of this is their own doing, some of it is not. Moaning about the Abbey (which is a great spectator course BTW) is just bothersome.

I am looking forward to Royal St Georges in a couple years.



Not A chance Wyndance is too easy they'd kill that place and besides it's kind of ugly. It needs about 10 years to fill in.

I hear you and agree, but it is a shame some of the best golf courses in Canada, and even the world are being "ignored" due to the economics of the situation. Imagine the potential tourism boost for say the east coast if the event was at Crowbush COve PEI for example. However, population and TV ratings rule the roost.

Forest through the trees IMO.

[corchard]

All of Charlottetown would have to attend to make any decent crowds.

Canadian Open sponsored by RBC and www.peipotatomuseum.com

[Golftime]

I played Glen Abbey last fall for the first time. Before that day, I always thought Glen Abbey was this awesome golf course but after playing it, I was disappointed. I played from the Black tees and I thought it wasn't too difficult (unless there is a huge difference between Black and Gold tees). I can image the tour pros get bored with the layout.

A guy I was playing with who was a 2 handicap was destroying the course. He was hitting driver wedge on almost every par 4 and was back-handing 3-4 footer's for pars in the hole.

What other course's have been considered in the GTA for the Canadian Open?

This guy you played with is by far the exception. I had a membership at the course for three years and I wish I had a dollar for every low handicapper who came in expecting to tame the course and was handed his lunch. Even from the shorter tees 10 handicappers couldn't break 100. Now with today's drivers it is easier but when the course is setup as it is right now with deep thick rough you cannot just blast away.

[dbelletrutti]

I played Glen Abbey last fall for the first time. Before that day, I always thought Glen Abbey was this awesome golf course but after playing it, I was disappointed. I played from the Black tees and I thought it wasn't too difficult (unless there is a huge difference between Black and Gold tees). I can image the tour pros get bored with the layout.

A guy I was playing with who was a 2 handicap was destroying the course. He was hitting driver wedge on almost every par 4 and was back-handing 3-4 footer's for pars in the hole.

What other course's have been considered in the GTA for the Canadian Open?

Send your buddy back there now, with tees at the tips and 5 inch rough from tee to green. Guarantee he won't break 90.

[focal]

All of Charlottetown would have to attend to make any decent crowds.

Canadian Open sponsored by RBC and www.peipotatomuseum.com

it's not just the paying public...they need to sell a LOT of corporate tents and event sponsorships.


personally, I'm too many years removed from playing the Abbey to have a good memory on the place. EVERY friend that's played it has an opinion that isn't too favourable of the place - "it's okay" is the usual answer. So what garners such praise in the press and the continually high ranking? I'm thinking of heading down to play later this year, once conditions are back to normal "day to day" conditions. It's never fun to play in OPEN conditions.

[Big Shooter]

Glad you know your facts Shooootah........:rolleyes:

(1) Too far away from U.S., go to your google earth...........;)
(2) Big Crowds did not show up...........Where the heck did you get that one........??? Presidents Cup was sold-out Thursday-Sunday with 35,000 attendance..........
(3) Language Barrier........hmmm alot of thought in that comment?? Have you ever been to West Island, Ille Blizzard where Royal Montreal is located. Mostly English. Heard ALOT more English being spoken by fans at Presidents Cup than French.
(4) Never said there would be a better field if it was held the same week. Only wondering why two-years in a row a Glen Abbey and then staying in the GTA at St. George for 2010.

...yah so what, I prolly stretched the truth, but it hasn't changed the reality! :p

[hogannut]

I know many people will laugh at this one, but I betcha I could take a 6800 yard parkland course and make it tougher than GA. I played St Andrews valley last week from the tips at 7300 yards and will say Westview is more of a challenge. A course like Westview with its 50+ year old trees, narrow fairways and small greens would force quality shot making to score. Don't cut the rough for a week and these guys would be pulling their hair out. Blind tee shots, narrow landing areas, small greens = a test.

Not that I am comparing WV to Hamilton, but it is the same scenario. Length isn't always the most important factor....in golf.....or other aspects (lol).

[Andru]

I played Glen Abbey last fall for the first time. Before that day, I always thought Glen Abbey was this awesome golf course but after playing it, I was disappointed. I played from the Black tees and I thought it wasn't too difficult (unless there is a huge difference between Black and Gold tees). I can image the tour pros get bored with the layout.

A guy I was playing with who was a 2 handicap was destroying the course. He was hitting driver wedge on almost every par 4 and was back-handing 3-4 footer's for pars in the hole.

What other course's have been considered in the GTA for the Canadian Open?

last year the course was playing really easy. They have special tee and pin locations for the tour pros. Take your buddy on the monday after the canadian open and we'll see how he shoots.

VJ Singh Hall of famer shot 13 under over 4 days at GA in 2004. That's about a 69 every day.

[kookie]

last year the course was playing really easy. They have special tee and pin locations for the tour pros. Take your buddy on the monday after the canadian open and we'll see how he shoots.

VJ Singh Hall of famer shot 13 under over 4 days at GA in 2004. That's about a 69 every day.

That is true, when I played it, it was in the fall so the rough wasn't high and I'm sure the greens were slow. But I still think the guy that I played with (some guy that got hooked-up with us) would have shot around par. Instead of a wedge, he would have probably hit a short iron in.

Again, I wasn't impressed with Glen Abbey after being so excited to play it.

[Andru]

That is true, when I played it, it was in the fall so the rough wasn't high and I'm sure the greens were slow. But I still think the guy that I played with (some guy that got hooked-up with us) would have shot around par. Instead of a wedge, he would have probably hit a short iron in.

Again, I wasn't impressed with Glen Abbey after being so excited to play it.
That would mean VJ Singh a hall of Fame Major champion who won that year would only beat him by 3 strokes. Seems a little unlikely doesn't it?

Hey we don't all have to agree on the golf course :)

[Golfing in Ottawa]

...yah so what, I prolly stretched the truth, but it hasn't changed the reality! :p

Stretched more than the 10:00 pm show at your local ballet............:p

[kookie]

That would mean VJ Singh a hall of Fame Major champion who won that year would only beat him by 3 strokes. Seems a little unlikely doesn't it?

Hey we don't all have to agree on the golf course :)

We can't compare VJ to the guy that I was paired with (VJ clearly better and a lot of other players). But the guy was good and all I thought while watching him play was PGA Tour pros must eat up Glen Abbey.

All I'm saying is Glen Abbey was not what I expected (high expectations...Nicklaus design & Canadian Open site) and I can see why PGA Tour pros are not lining up to play it. I'm a Clublink member and I don't even want play it.

[herbert]

I'm pretty sure I just saw on The Golf Channel that Glen Abbey played as the 4th toughest course on the PGA Tour the year it last hosted the Cdn Open, the year of the Weir/Singh showdown I think. I was doing something else while sort of watching TGC so I'm not sure if I heard correctly. Anybody else catch that?

[fins & skins]

Let's not forget when Clublink bought Glen Abbey from the RCGA they had a written contract that they would host x number of Canadian Opens over x number of years.

That contract expires in 2 years and Clublink is still owed 2 Opens. Aside from Glen Abbey I can not think of a Clublink course that could hold an Open.

[Section ThirtyOne]

How about Whistle Bear?

They have hosted a couple CPGA Championship (Nationwide Tour) events that were very well attended, and the players really liked the course. The fact that they could grow the rough in and push it back to 7800 yards could make for an interesting tournament...

Albert? What do you think? I'd be willing to give up my home course for a week or two to do it.

[akrus]

How about Whistle Bear?

They have hosted a couple CPGA Championship (Nationwide Tour) events that were very well attended, and the players really liked the course. The fact that they could grow the rough in and push it back to 7800 yards could make for an interesting tournament...

Albert? What do you think? I'd be willing to give up my home course for a week or two to do it.

If there was a way to guarantee 40km/hr + winds, then I'd say it would be highly entertaining. Otherwise, the pros just eat WB up. -19, isn't a fun score to watch happen...

WB does have much of what might make hosting a major possible - parking, facilities, room for spectators, accomadations, proximity to major airport, etc... If WB wanted to make it impossible, they could, by allowing everything to grow, but I think it would be more entertaining to see the weather kick the guys in the sack...

Mind you, spectators do seem to enjoy watching guys bomb driver all day and WB does give plenty of opportunity to let the big dog bark.

[Big Shooter]

If there was a way to guarantee 40km/hr + winds, then I'd say it would be highly entertaining. Otherwise, the pros just eat WB up. -19, isn't a fun score to watch happen...

WB does have much of what might make hosting a major possible - parking, facilities, room for spectators, accomadations, proximity to major airport, etc... If WB wanted to make it impossible, they could, by allowing everything to grow, but I think it would be more entertaining to see the weather kick the guys in the sack...

Mind you, spectators do seem to enjoy watching guys bomb driver all day and WB does give plenty of opportunity to let the big dog bark.

Charles Warren would like it!!! ;)

[Kace]

How about Whistle Bear?

They have hosted a couple CPGA Championship (Nationwide Tour) events that were very well attended, and the players really liked the course. The fact that they could grow the rough in and push it back to 7800 yards could make for an interesting tournament...

Albert? What do you think? I'd be willing to give up my home course for a week or two to do it.

Wouldn't that be great for the K-W area though. If only...

I would also love it since I live right around the corner from WB. I'd be more than willing to rent out some rooms for the players (or TGNer's). :D

[frozenrope]

Let's not forget Hamilton G & C.
Very pretty course, great for fans and the players all spoke very highly of it.
I'd love to play it.

[FORE Left]

We can't compare VJ to the guy that I was paired with (VJ clearly better and a lot of other players). But the guy was good and all I thought while watching him play was PGA Tour pros must eat up Glen Abbey.

All I'm saying is Glen Abbey was not what I expected (high expectations...Nicklaus design & Canadian Open site) and I can see why PGA Tour pros are not lining up to play it. I'm a Clublink member and I don't even want play it.

I am a member at the Abbey and I completely understand people's disappointment when they head out to play there (because the cost is ridiculous and the conditions have been crap the last few years). This year, conditions are much improved but the rough is insane.

But, in relation to how hard the Abbey is... from the GAO website, off the blacks, it slopes at 146 with a course rating of 75.5.

The thing is, these tee decks are closed to the general public (and to members for that matter - we only get to play them on real special occasions).

The gold tees are the "back tees" 99% of the time. The gold tees slope at 138 and CR is 72.6 and about 500 yards shorter - a hell of a lot easier than off the blacks.

Play #4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 14 (especially) off the championship decks - completely different holes than off the golds.

Off the blacks, it is a test of golf.

[RCCHGA]

played Coppinwood on the weekend and it would make a great venue... maybe 2011?

The member that invited us, mentioned that the membership weren't in a rush to commit to it...maybe I heard wrong.

You heard right and it won't happen for a variety of reasons!

[Golfing in Ottawa]

Rob Thompson reports on his Blog today........
http://www.ontgolf.ca/g4g/

Some interesting excerpts:

"As for St. George’s, Weir proclaimed the course ready for a Canadian Open as long as a couple of extreme greens — namely the notorious third — are altered. “There’s some pretty severe greens that would be unfortunate if you couldn’t put the pins there if the greens were tour speed because there’s some pins you couldn’t use. No way. But I think it is going to be a great venue.” Weir concluded that he’d like to see the fourth — currently a par-5 that he hit 6-iron into on his second — turned into a par-4 and leave the 11th, another short par-5, at its current par. "

"A few names have withdrawn, including Ryuji Imada, Scott Verplank and Steve Lowrey. Interesting that the talk about Boo Weekley’s withdrawing from the event centered on why he’d tell the tournament he was coming in the first place. Why not say he might come but wasn’t certain?"

"RCGA exec-director Scott Simmons spoke at a media briefing in the morning. The RCGA will lose about $2 million this year, down from $5 million last year. Break even is predicted at 2010. Simmons also said he hoped to name the tournament venues for 2011 and 2012 by the end of the year, clarifying that currently the Terrebonne project is scheduled for 2012. But unless the project starts, “about right now,” Simmons said it would be tough to have the course ready in time."

My prediction(Not Mr. T) is 2011 will be back out to Shaughnessy in BC and Royal Montreal will step forward for 2012 as Terrebonne is still trying to sort out business issues.......

[pthrashe]

I'm just on the PGA tour site and it says that Glen Abbey was the 4th most difficult course in 2004 out of 56 in total...sounds crazy to me but here is the link!

http://www.pgatour.com/2008/tournaments/r032/07/22/inside.the.course/index.html

Interesting...

[Bellyhungry]

Weirsy played St George's and The National this week.

According to Lorne Lubenstein's column in The Globe, Weir proclaimed that St George's would be a top 10 golf course on tour where The National would be in top 3.

[Golden Bear]

Well, I've recently become very much in favour of moving the Open out west. I strongly recommend the Springs Golf Course in Radium, BC, but if the weenies at the RCGA can't do me a solid with that one, I guess I'd settle for them putting it at Stephen Ames' new course in Calgary.

[lelyflamingo]

I, like others do not really like the prospect of the Open being played at the Abbey. But i think the media has trained us to have this view, not based so much on the course but on the lack of a quality filed. After all they could play the open at Parkview and if Tiger, Phil, Ernie, Vijay etc were all in the field we would all be there. So it is not so much the course alone, but when it is also combined with a lesser known field.

[focal]

this is a national championship, but unfortunately, the economics dictate where it's going to be played. Just like Hockey Night is Canada is really the Toronto Maple Leafs, the Canadian Open only has limited venues where it can be played.

a rotation of 5-8 courses would be awesome if the RCGA can pull it off. it's not just the course that will draw players, the date is a big deterrent.

ideally; St. Georges, Royal Montreal, Shaughnessy, Abbey, Hamilton, The National...a course in Alberta, Westmount...and maybe a "new" addition in every rotation just in case one of these above course decides to pass one time.

[herbert]

I'm just on the PGA tour site and it says that Glen Abbey was the 4th most difficult course in 2004 out of 56 in total...sounds crazy to me but here is the link!

http://www.pgatour.com/2008/tournaments/r032/07/22/inside.the.course/index.html

Interesting...

In an earlier post on this thread, I mentioned that. I'd heard it on The Golf Channel but wasn't sure if I'd heard correctly. Now I am.:)

[cldale]

I, like others do not really like the prospect of the Open being played at the Abbey. But i think the media has trained us to have this view, not based so much on the course but on the lack of a quality filed. After all they could play the open at Parkview and if Tiger, Phil, Ernie, Vijay etc were all in the field we would all be there. So it is not so much the course alone, but when it is also combined with a lesser known field.

Personally, I think a field that includes Furyk, AKim, Bubba, Weir, Ames, etc is a pretty quality field. And from what I've heard from the players and read in the golf media, Glen Abbey is a pretty well respected course and the players enjoy it.

And as many point out, there isn't much point in putting the tournament in some podunk town where nobody will attend, regardless of the course. You can get away with this stuff in the states for Majors, and in England for the Open, but really, who's going to fly the nowhere, Alberta to go see what is now a second tier PGA tourny.

And this isn't ontario-ism. I grew up out west in a podunk town of 500 near the Sask/Alt border. Economics is economics though.

[hogannut]

If you spread it around to the 4 biggest Canadian cities you could expand the diveristy and make it a true national open. Problem is the time difference in Calgary or Vancouver could affect ratings....although I LOVED coming home from golf and watching prime time US Open golf.

I think everyone knows WHY the put the event at the venues they do, and obviously they have to in order for it to work from a business stand point. However from a golfers point of view I think there are many here who agree there are so many worthy courses in Canada that deserve the chance to host it.

It is to bad that one of the oldest golf tournaments in the world (older than the US Open) and a tournament that once was considered almost a major has been bumped and bashed around by the PGA to the point it is just above the John Deere in terms of its field.

[corchard]

...

It is to bad that one of the oldest golf tournaments in the world (older than the US Open) and a tournament that once was considered almost a major has been bumped and bashed around by the PGA to the point it is just above the John Deere in terms of its field.

Yet the CN Canadian Women's Open (http://www.lpga.com/tournament_microsite.aspx?id=13685) is considered a must stop on the LPGA tour with 95% of the top players attending.

[The Troll]

I think there are many here who agree there are so many worthy courses in Canada that deserve the chance to host it.


Deserve it, yes....want it, that is a whole other question.

I know what many of the Hamilton members think about it coming back and I'll be surprised if it is before 2013-15.

[lelyflamingo]

I do not believe the lack of quality players has anything to do with the PGA, granted they do not give the Open a great date. All of the tournaments are awarding large purses now , but a greater problem today vs 20-30 years ago is that today the players no longer depend on the purses for their livelyhood. Most name golfers today are making far more money away from the tournaments in corporate outings, sponsor events, etc etc. With many players now playing limited events we lose out. it is a reflection of the economics of today. Ben Hogan, Palmer, Trevino etc were making their money from tournaments not from sponsor deals etc.

[hogannut]

Yet the CN Canadian Women's Open (http://www.lpga.com/tournament_microsite.aspx?id=13685) is considered a must stop on the LPGA tour with 95% of the top players attending.

Perfect point to prove the mens event is all about business and not much to do with golf. ALso look at the field it draws compared to the men.

Deserve it, yes....want it, that is a whole other question.

I know what many of the Hamilton members think about it coming back and I'll be surprised if it is before 2013-15.

It will be interesting to see how the membership reacts at St Geroges when it goes there!

[The Troll]

It will be interesting to see how the membership reacts at St Geroges when it goes there!

Some at Hamilton have told me that the summer date is easier to take as many members are away at cottage or other summer breaks. Also, the rough will be up for a much shorter period.

At Hamilton, both opens were just after cottage season and the rough was ankle high from the start of the season. For many members, the course was almost unplayable from the start until mid-September. A bigger sacrifice is made by the members than most realize.

[Bellyhungry]

Yet the CN Canadian Women's Open (http://www.lpga.com/tournament_microsite.aspx?id=13685) is considered a must stop on the LPGA tour with 95% of the top players attending.

How is the LPGA CN Open relevent to the demise of the CDN Open?

The LPGA as a whole is a small operator compared to the PGA.

[hogannut]

Some at Hamilton have told me that the summer date is easier to take as many members are away at cottage or other summer breaks. Also, the rough will be up for a much shorter period.

At Hamilton, both opens were just after cottage season and the rough was ankle high from the start of the season. For many members, the course was almost unplayable from the start until mid-September. A bigger sacrifice is made by the members than most realize.

Good point. THen there is the fact that the membership loses use of the course for a week. That may not sound like much, but if consider there a 20 weeks (5 months) of "gauranteed" good weather it works out to 5% of their dues not being used. I highly doubt Hamilton gave its members a 5% discount for lost time.

[focal]

Good point. THen there is the fact that the membership loses use of the course for a week. That may not sound like much, but if consider there a 20 weeks (5 months) of "gauranteed" good weather it works out to 5% of their dues not being used. I highly doubt Hamilton gave its members a 5% discount for lost time.

there are benefits to hosting...short term pain...but you automatically get elevated in rankings and prestige which in turn helps keep the waiting list full and your initiations higher.

Shaughnessy was a bargain before they announced the CDN Open there. Open membership and no wait list.....now it's a full club, long wait list, initiations are MUCH higher and ranking has jumped....

[corchard]

How is the LPGA CN Open relevent to the demise of the CDN Open?

The LPGA as a whole is a small operator compared to the PGA.

I'll buy stock in a rising small operator rather than a falling mamoth. The women's open purse is only half that of the men's open. The attendance in last year during the womens open was supposedly great. Now from a pure $$ standpoint there weren't as many corp tents, corp bucks but I'll argue that they made money. This year with the Men's open ???

[hogannut]

I'll buy stock in a rising small operator rather than a falling mamoth. The women's open purse is only half that of the men's open. The attendance in last year during the womens open was supposedly great. Now from a pure $$ standpoint there weren't as many corp tents, corp bucks but I'll argue that they made money. This year with the Men's open ???

Agree. When it was at the London Hunt club it was a huge success. Good crowds, great golf course, excelent field, quality golf. For a city of 500 000 it was nothing but a success for everyone involved.

[Bluefan75]

The reason the Women's Open is such a draw is that for years, while it was sponsored by Du Maurier, it was one of the major tournaments. When Du Maurier left, the LPGA "redesignated" another tournament as a major(as if you can do that), but frankly, the same reason the Players Championship will never be a major, the Cdn Women's Open will always remain a draw because of the history attached to it.

[Bellyhungry]

I'll buy stock in a rising small operator rather than a falling mamoth. The women's open purse is only half that of the men's open. The attendance in last year during the womens open was supposedly great. Now from a pure $$ standpoint there weren't as many corp tents, corp bucks but I'll argue that they made money. This year with the Men's open ???

The total attendance to the CN Open last year was around 65,000. For a small scale operator in a small town, it is a definite success.

But for a premier PGA event, you need to attract multiple folds of that. For comparison, the FDR Open at Phoenix attracts 150,000 ppl in ONE day. The CDN Open at AG North last year attracted slightly less than 100,000 whole week in comparison.

A high school football match somewhere in the middle of Iowa could rally the town like no one can, but that does not make them a premier tourney.

Agree. When it was at the London Hunt club it was a huge success. Good crowds, great golf course, excelent field, quality golf. For a city of 500 000 it was nothing but a success for everyone involved.

Sure if the CDN Open want to be a smaller operations, they could apply to be part of the Nationwide or even Canadian Tour event. That way, they can move to small towns and get tonnes of local support. But this is supposedly a National championship and the RCGA is trying to rebuild the prestige factor.

[brianfrench]

I suspect that St. Geo's members will be invited to slum it at reciprocals at Lambton, Islington, The National, Oakdale, etc.
Don't feel sorry for them.
When we hosted the GTO we got times at Lambton and Westmount and a few others

[focal]

The reason the Women's Open is such a draw is that for years, while it was sponsored by Du Maurier, it was one of the major tournaments. When Du Maurier left, the LPGA "redesignated" another tournament as a major(as if you can do that), but frankly, the same reason the Players Championship will never be a major, the Cdn Women's Open will always remain a draw because of the history attached to it.

CN sponsoring it saved it....it was about to go down in flames also. no title sponsor, no big purse..

the great thing about the LPGA is the mandatory 3-4 years cycle where all members have to play every tournament. This guarantees good fields, which in turn gets good crowds.

the CN CDN open can also be moved around the country as the logistics are easier to run, there are a LOT more courses that can host it...and again, have to stress, members have to eventually play it (mandatory), which in turn keeps the crowds up.

it is WAY better attended than the LPGA championship which last I heard has lost their title sponsor (mcDonalds).

[The Troll]

THen there is the fact that the membership loses use of the course for a week.

Pretty much all of two weeks really. At Hamilton I think they lost the course on the previous Wednesday or Thursday and got it back on the Tuesday after the event.

there are benefits to hosting...short term pain...but you automatically get elevated in rankings and prestige which in turn helps keep the waiting list full and your initiations higher.


Very true and that is why I think Hamilton will stay at around once every ten years.

No question that of the large increase in initiation since 2003, around $15,000 likely relates to having the Open.

[Golfing in Ottawa]

But for a premier PGA event, you need to attract multiple folds of that. For comparison, the FDR Open at Phoenix attracts 150,000 ppl in ONE day. The CDN Open at AG North last year attracted slightly less than 100,000 whole week in comparison.

You have used this comparison of the FDR Open before............and I will repeat myself again.....................That event is set up with huge stands and plenty of beer to coincide around SuperBowl weekend.
The "Large Majority" of people "could not" care a less about being at a PGA tournament. They are there for the beer and party.............

Most tournaments will put a "Cap" on tickets. For example The Presidents Cup in Montreal had a cap of 35,000 per day. They Sold Out Thursday - Sunday and had 25,000 per day for the Tues & Wed. Practice Rounds. So thats 140,000 people Sold out for the 4 days. I would say that Cdn Open attracting 100,000 is not too bad considering the field.
If you want to compare, then take PGA tournaments in the US which are "not Majors" and the attendance will likely be similiar.......
STOP using that FDR Open example..........!!!

[Bellyhungry]

You have used this comparison of the FDR Open before............and I will repeat myself again.....................That event is set up with huge stands and plenty of beer to coincide around SuperBowl weekend.
The "Large Majority" of people "could not" care a less about being at a PGA tournament. They are there for the beer and party.............

Most tournaments will put a "Cap" on tickets. For example The Presidents Cup in Montreal had a cap of 35,000 per day. They Sold Out Thursday - Sunday and had 25,000 per day for the Tues & Wed. Practice Rounds. So thats 140,000 people Sold out for the 4 days. I would say that Cdn Open attracting 100,000 is not too bad considering the field.
If you want to compare, then take PGA tournaments in the US which are "not Majors" and the attendance will likely be similiar.......
STOP using that FDR Open example..........!!!

Dear Mr. Pot,

- Last I checked, there are over 7000 members here and some new ones might not have heard it :D
- A certain someone whom we both know apparently always repeating himself about the P-Cup in Montreal :rofl:
- I am fairly sure a little certain someone (once again, we both know) will be going ground-hog-day on the LPGA at Hunt Club. Actually, he already started :)

Sincerely,
Mr. Kettle

[cldale]

Perfect point to prove the mens event is all about business and not much to do with golf. ALso look at the field it draws compared to the men.

LPGA has an attendance rule if I remember correctly. All players must play every tournament at least once in 3 years or something like that. Ensures that all tournies get a share of the top players.

[hogannut]

The 1st day was good, although Mikey shooting -6 definetly puts a buzz in the air. Weather looks like it will co-operate for the next 3 days.

GO MIKEY!!!!

[golfnguru]

the great thing about the LPGA is the mandatory 3-4 years cycle

I'm no expert, but I thought the cycle on the LPGA was more like a month.

Rick Reilly has good info on this in is book Who's Your Cadddy? (Great book BTW)

[Golfing in Ottawa]

- I am fairly sure a little certain someone (once again, we both know) will be going ground-hog-day on the LPGA at Hunt Club. Actually, he already started :)

Sincerely,
Mr. Kettle

Dear Mr. Kettle,

Why don't you come up to Ottawa in a few weeks, and I will sign my calendar for you............might even put a shine on your Kettle.......;) :D

Natalie :p

http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YETH1VCRL._AA280_.jpg

[rbaker]

I was kidding a little! But surprise you were disappointed? What were the issues? Is it not your style of course?

RB

WYNDANCE,

Are you kidding me???

Played there a couple of weeks ago and found it most disappointing. Definately not worthy of the hype it gets from Clublink!!