What would you implement to speed up play?

[Bellyhungry]

We all have complain about slow plays and gotten stuck behind some slow groups. I am sure a lot of us are the offenders as well.

What would you implement to speed up plays? One obvious one is golf cart only during prime time;

Ideas on rules/course designs/technologies/incentives/etc. Any members in the golf business might have some insights they can share.

Some ideas I have off the top of my head:
- 20% discount coupon for next round if you finish in say, 4 hours or less.
- Widen the fairways
- Select the tee decks to your actual playing ability
- Homing device bulit in golf balls.
- Save the Pro Vs for special occasions (like giving it to your clients) so that you won't spend hours looking for them
- GPS and satelite technology that allows carts to move in forward direction only to prevent people from driving back and forth on the fairways
- New rule: order of play only for tournaments. Ready golf is absolute must for weekend golfers
- Most people can't hit the spike marks even if they try. Feel free to step in the line of your playing partners instead of walking around the green to get to your ball
- Ignore the last idea; it is not cool to step on people's putting line
- Don't blame the woman golfers. From my experience, a lot of female golfers pick up after they make a few bad shots. It is mostly male golfers who keep hacking on their balls even after they have no chance
- Night golf - Install lights in the back nine to allow extended tee time and extra few hours of golf
- Only prepacked sandwiches at the half way house; nothing fancy that requires cooking time
- Get rid of par 4s 'cart path only' holes
- Cart paths on both sides of the fairways as much as possible
- To all the Scottish link wanna bes: please cut the fescue so that balls can be found easily. When we see the mounds on the fairways and the lack of trees, we get it; we know it is meant to be link style golf. But we do not need to spend hours looking for balls just roll into the rough
- Some golf marketing firm needs to hype up wasteland style golf courses (#1 in the world Pine Valley in New Jersey is wasteland). Why? Because you can drive your cart in the waste areas (aka bunkers) and you do not have to rake them after.
- To test my theory: Try to play The Hoot at Osprey. It is a wasteland style. After that, play Heathland at Osprey, and prepare to look for lost balls that land on the fairway

Just my 2 cents...

[pudubny]

We have spent hours debating the slow play issue here in older threads and it's really come down to all parties doing something. Golfers must be more respectful of others time and courses/pros must do more to implement 4:15 rounds and educate golfers.

That being said the best idea I've heard recently is the tracker. With GPS so readily available now every golfer on the course get's a bag tag which can track them on the course. It's virtually weightless. They already use the technology in golf carts, but this will work for walkers as well. The pro shop has the course map on computer and can tell where all the golfers are at any given time. They can easily determine delays and dispatch the marshalls to the specific problem areas. It's a great information tool and would greatly help if courses were committed to doing something about the problem. They are not unfortunately.
I played a public course for the first time in months a couple of weeks ago and it took 4:45+. It drove me nuts waiting on every tee. My longest round this year at the home course is 4:30. ( my handicap is going down, so it's not hurting my game) Most come in at 4 to 4:15. Many under 4 hours. I played Scarboro last week, a very busy private course with the day fully booked and it took only 4:30.
I keep hearing people complain about how long it takes to play a round of golf and the courses are not getting it. They have to make pace of play an important part of the business plan. Not just rounds played and revenue.

I love the days when you show up at the first tee and the starter gives you the lecture about how the course loves to keep rounds at about 4:15 and how if you fall behind pace the marshall WILL intervene and ask you to move to the next tee. We just do not have enough of those places.
Good luck.
Pud.

[framer]

theres many i can think about, but the one that drives me nuts is renting out carts when its cart path only. thats brutal slow.

[el tigre]

We all have complain about slow plays and gotten stuck behind some slow groups. I am sure a lot of us are the offenders as well.

What would you implement to speed up plays? One obvious one is golf cart only during prime time;

Ideas on rules/course designs/technologies/incentives/etc. Any members in the golf business might have some insights they can share.
There is only ONE surefire way to get rid of slow play - play "ready golf" all the time. That's it.

Virtually none of your suggestions will impact pace of play if golfers do not play "ready golf" - including your "obvious" one of golf cart only during prime time. Last Saturday morning I played with two guys in a cart while I walked, on a wide-open, links-style course with virtually no trees or fescue and some long walks between holes, and I was waiting for them on virtually every shot.

Golf courses could help by using 10-minute tee-time intervals as a minimum to lessen the number of people on the course at one time. Yes, that will decrease revenue at some busy courses - but the quality of the golfing experience will be SO much better. There is a course in Ottawa that has 15-minute intervals - you tee off when the group in front starts leaving the green (#1 is a par 4). Pace of play is NEVER a problem and you feel like you're the only group on the course.

In terms of course design, groups tend to pile up on par 3's and par 5's. A course that has a lot of them in consecutive order will experience slowdowns there. Over 18 holes you should still be fine if you play "ready golf", but that can still add 10-15 minutes to total time for the round.

[iyell4]

ban beverage cart service.

refreshment vending should only be stationed near/between a couple of tee boxes to allow you to grab a quickie and keep pace.

(Ref: A few times times this season, I've be standing at the tee-box on a par-5. Foursome in front approaches their balls (or begin search), first golfer addresses his ball and prepares for his 2nd shot, then before hitting, motions for the mobile bevearge server :eek: who'd shown up ... cart comes over, foursome encircle the cart ... 5 minutes later .. they continue play/search.:( )

[Golfbum]

Many arguements have taken place over the problem of slow play. I feel that some of this problem comes from golfers watching PGA events. God some of those guys are slower than the 2nd coming of Christ:)

There are some people who just do not care if there are golfers behind them waiting and waiting. They have no respect for others and you will never change that.

With that said:

1.Ready golf, if you're ready, then hit your shot.

2.Tee Box honours, do you really care if you made a birdie and should be on the tee first? Sure it is nice to have the honours but does it really matter? I played a round with two seniors at my course and they take turns hitting first on the tees. We just rotated ever 3rd hole. Simple:D

3.Mark your scores AFTER YOU WALK OFF THE GREEN!

4.Socialize as you walk towards your next shots, not while you are standing on the tee box or the green.

5.If you stop in the clubhouse after 9 do not expect to keep your spot on the 10th tee. Let the group behind you play through if you are getting dogs or burgers etc.

I realize some of the above have been mentioned, but those are my thoughts.
As for beverage carts, the cart girls at my course pretty well stick to the tee boxes if it is busy. They rarely come out into the fairways. Great idea.

The idea of a discount for your next round if you are under 4 hours is a great idea that courses should put in place. Afterall it is to their advantage as they will move more green fee players that way.

I rarely run into long rounds simply because I play early on the weekends. The only people on the course are usually members of my course and they move along at a good pace. Yesterday we played at 4PM and we knew we had 3 hours to play 18 with 3 of us. Made it around in less than 3 hours with ease. Walked too.

Last but not least, I have had guys tell me that in Florida if you do not keep pace the rangers warn you once. If they tell you a 2nd time then you are outa there with a partial refund at some courses and no refund at others. I realize it would be a tough thing to do for a ranger. Friends of mine are rangers at my course and they say it is impossible to kick someone off unless they are drunk and driving the carts on the greens!

Last but not least, if you, your friends and me all play as quickly as possible maybe it will rub off on others. Slow play hurts your game, you can not get in a groove. People just don't realize that until they have boogied around a golf course is less than 3 hours in a twosome while walking.

HIT THE BALL
WALK TO THE BALL
TALK TO THE BALL
SAVE THE TALKING TO YOUR PLAYING PARTNERS FOR LATER;)

[el tigre]

ban beverage cart service.

refreshment vending should only be stationed near/between a couple of tee boxes to allow you to grab a quickie and keep pace.

(Ref: A few times times this season, I've be standing at the tee-box on a par-5. Foursome in front approaches their balls (or begin search), first golfer addresses his ball and prepares for his 2nd shot, then before hitting, motions for the mobile bevearge server :eek: who'd shown up ... cart comes over, foursome encircle the cart ... 5 minutes later .. they continue play/search.:( ) Gee, you coulda saved a whole 5 minutes on your round?? Whoopie!!

First of all, if you play "ready golf" then obviously you play your shot first and then call the cart over. They always wait for you to play first anyway.

Secondly, the beverage cart service has to be EXTREMELY good if you see it more than 3 or 4 times in a round. That is not going to turn a 4-hour round into a 6-hour marathon. That comes from taking an extra 5 minutes on EVERY hole.

I realize that we all lead busy lives and our time is valuable, but the purpose of the game is not to complete a round in the least amount of time. A foursome should complete a round in 4 - 4.5 hours depending on how busy the course is. That is a normal pace of play. If you play early mornings like I do or play with less than 4 people, then obviously you can finish sooner - but you are supposed to have fun while playing. If that includes having a beer on a hot summer day, then so be it.

[Thimble]

-rangers need to kick off players who fall behind by a whole 2 holes.

-mandatory carts. i'd even take one step forward and combine this rule with switching to the new one man carts.

-space out the first T intervals to 15 minutes.

-get rid of fescue. i know it's pretty to look at, but we're not in the freakin' british open...

-keep the rough cut low enough. blow leaves off the course.

-add very visible drop areas for OBs. +2 penalty.

[el tigre]

With that said:

1.Ready golf, if you're ready, then hit your shot.

2.Tee Box honours, do you really care if you made a birdie and should be on the tee first? Sure it is nice to have the honours but does it really matter? I played a round with two seniors at my course and they take turns hitting first on the tees. We just rotated ever 3rd hole. Simple:D

3.Mark your scores AFTER YOU WALK OFF THE GREEN!

4.Socialize as you walk towards your next shots, not while you are standing on the tee box or the green.

5.If you stop in the clubhouse after 9 do not expect to keep your spot on the 10th tee. Let the group behind you play through if you are getting dogs or burgers etc.
Good post. You have nicely summarized what I mean when I say "play ready golf".

[iyell4]

. I realize it would be a tough thing to do for a ranger. Friends of mine are rangers at my course and they say it is impossible to kick someone off unless they are drunk and driving the carts on the greens!
do you mean physically remove them from the premises?
If they do not comply when asked, it would disruptive for all on the course patrons, impractical and v. difficult without placing the club @ risk of a lawsuit to extract them from the course ... that said, the only way to physically remove someone from the course, if they don't want to leave when asked, would be to have the GM call OPP (or local police service) and ask for the offending foursome to be escorted of the course. Way, way more hassle than it's worth, unfortunately.

"COPS!: ClubLink edition" coming soon! :cool:

[el tigre]

-rangers need to kick off players who fall behind by a whole 2 holes.. Yep. If you are THAT far behind, you are definately impacting others enjoyment of the game

-mandatory carts. i'd even take one step forward and combine this rule with switching to the new one man carts. Nope. Lots of courses with mandatory carts have 6-hour rounds. Slow people can be slow whether they are riding or walking. The only time carts will significantly speed up play is if the course has a lot of long walks between holes.

-space out the first T intervals to 15 minutes. It'll work, but I understand that golf courses are in business to make money. Longer intervals generally mean higher green fees. I think 10 minutes would work fine.

-get rid of fescue. i know it's pretty to look at, but we're not in the freakin' british open...

-keep the rough cut low enough. blow leaves off the course.

-add very visible drop areas for OBs. +2 penalty. Well, I suppose if we make the game WAAAAY easier to play then it'll take less time, but then that would ruin the game. I like the challenge of fescue and thick rough. This game is supposed to be tough.

[iyell4]

you coulda saved a whole 5 minutes on your round.Every little bit counts.

if you play "ready golf" then obviously you play your shot first and then call the cart over. Agreed. wish the 4some in front of us knew/did that.:rolleyes:

but you are supposed to have fun while playing. If that includes having a beer on a hot summer day, then so be it.No need to emphasize the 'have fun' part to me. I'm just out for fun and to lose some $ and some golf balls.:)
... also, please do not paint me as an advocate of a beverage/alcohol ban on golf courses. What I am advocating is that the service of such aimin' tonics need to be more aligned with 'ready golf'.
Cheers!

[pudubny]

I like alot of what I am reading but manditory carts is not a good idea for speed or the game. The game was meant to be walked and walking has many benefits to your health and your game.
Unless your playing courses where the distance between holes is long (like Woodensticks) their is virtually no speed benefits to a twosome in a cart.
Thanks

[intherough]

In my mind (and I'm a true hacker!), all the problems for slow play can be fixed by:

a) ready golf at all times (as mentioned in almost every post in this thread) and
b) courses managing their time better.

For a), the problem is one of education. Few golfers know what ready golf is. These are also the guys that size up each putt from both sides of the hole like they're putting for birdie on the 18th at the Masters. Incidentally, these guys are also the ones who 3-putt every hole. If the Starters gave a little speech to each group teeing off, and if Marshall's actually did something about the problem, we'd all get around much quicker.

For b), the problem is actually harder to solve. Courses try to push as many groups through as possible in order to maximize revenue. If they actually spaced groups out to 15 minute intervals, I suspect there wouldn't be any bunching up on tee boxes, but they'd also lose a lot of money. A LOT. Let's do a little assumptive math:

Assuming first tee time is 7:30 a.m. and last tee time (to get in 18) is 3:30. That's 8 hours, or 480 minutes. At 7 minute intervals, you can push through 69 foursomes. Assuming a $60 green fee, that's $16,560 in daily revenue from green fees.

If you increase the intervals to 15 minutes, you only get 32 groups out per day. At our assumptive $60 green fee, you're only looking at $7,680 in revenue. Over the course of a week, that's a difference of more than $62,000. I'm not going to extend it out over the short golf season, but you can see how enticing it is for a course owner to jam as many people through in a day as he can.

I also agree that cart/halfway house service slows down play, but I don't think owners are prepared to foresake that revenue, and I don't think players are prepared to foresake the convenience. Personally, I rarely buy anything off the cart girl, but then again, I'm cheap. ;)

So you get marshalls complaining about slow play, but in reality, if the course spaced groups out better, we'd all have a lot fewer problems.

[iyell4]

For the courses that have a 'mandatory-cart' rule ...
I have an idea regarding beverage service that might help out in this regard.
On each of the power carts, install a cooler over one of the rear wheel wells. some courses have them already. some just have a ball/club washer installed. some just have a piece of plastic that sez 'DO NOT STEP'.
but i digress.

The idea is to allow golfters stock this cooler with beverages and charge the golfers UPFRONT. You are to return the cart with the cooler empty.

The idea is stolen from another service industry ... the hotel industry.
This is what is done @ hotel's with their mini bar fridges ... except you don't have to pay for the contents upfront. ... and you don't have to pay for all the contents.

[Golfbum]

do you mean physically remove them from the premises?
If they do not comply when asked, it would disruptive for all on the course patrons, impractical and v. difficult without placing the club @ risk of a lawsuit to extract them from the course ... that said, the only way to physically remove someone from the course, if they don't want to leave when asked, would be to have the GM call OPP (or local police service) and ask for the offending foursome to be escorted of the course. Way, way more hassle than it's worth, unfortunately.

"COPS!: ClubLink edition" coming soon! :cool:
ARM THE RANGERS!:D Maybe some pepper spray:rofl:

[pudubny]

a couple of other threads where we had healthy debates on this issue.

http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/showthread.php?t=883&highlight=slow
http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/showthread.php?t=894&highlight=slow
Hope those work

Pud.

[tjhayko]

Playing ready golf will certainly help.

I've often discussed the idea of having a way to track how groups are moving through, and making it mandatory that they skip a hole if they are too far off the pace.

I'm not wild about banning the beverage cart, but perhaps educating the beverage cart person to only stop on tee blocks instead of in the middle of the fairway would help.

I think shared power carts slow down the game a fair amount, so I'd ban them.

[Bellyhungry]

A lot of very good points made.

Here're my additional thoughts:
- Walking is part of the game and thus should not be banned
- Getting rid of tee box honor is a great idea
- Beverage cart is a revenue stream for the golf courses - keep green fees down
- 8 minutes interval allows courses to accomodate more golfers and bring in revenue - keep green fees down
- Personally, I don't agree with removing or issuing 'warnings' to slow golfers closely monitor them. After all, they are paying customers. A lot of us also perhaps have been wrongly victimized by marshalls for slow play even though it wasn't our fault.

I think most of us one time or another have contributed to slow plays, I think the important thing is to know how the game be accelerated a little in other areas.

[Thimble]

http://www.e-caramerica.com/Images/ATLAS.jpg

It's gotta happen eventually...

[golferboy]

One of the problems I see out on courses is people playing from the wrong tees. Maybe there is a way to test someone, to determine if they can hit from the blues...etc...
We all have complain about slow plays and gotten stuck behind some slow groups. I am sure a lot of us are the offenders as well.

What would you implement to speed up plays? One obvious one is golf cart only during prime time;

Ideas on rules/course designs/technologies/incentives/etc. Any members in the golf business might have some insights they can share.

Some ideas I have off the top of my head:
- 20% discount coupon for next round if you finish in say, 4 hours or less.
- Widen the fairways
- Select the tee decks to your actual playing ability
- Homing device bulit in golf balls.
- Save the Pro Vs for special occasions (like giving it to your clients) so that you won't spend hours looking for them
- GPS and satelite technology that allows carts to move in forward direction only to prevent people from driving back and forth on the fairways
- New rule: order of play only for tournaments. Ready golf is absolute must for weekend golfers
- Most people can't hit the spike marks even if they try. Feel free to step in the line of your playing partners instead of walking around the green to get to your ball
- Ignore the last idea; it is not cool to step on people's putting line
- Don't blame the woman golfers. From my experience, a lot of female golfers pick up after they make a few bad shots. It is mostly male golfers who keep hacking on their balls even after they have no chance
- Night golf - Install lights in the back nine to allow extended tee time and extra few hours of golf
- Only prepacked sandwiches at the half way house; nothing fancy that requires cooking time
- Get rid of par 4s 'cart path only' holes
- Cart paths on both sides of the fairways as much as possible
- To all the Scottish link wanna bes: please cut the fescue so that balls can be found easily. When we see the mounds on the fairways and the lack of trees, we get it; we know it is meant to be link style golf. But we do not need to spend hours looking for balls just roll into the rough
- Some golf marketing firm needs to hype up wasteland style golf courses (#1 in the world Pine Valley in New Jersey is wasteland). Why? Because you can drive your cart in the waste areas (aka bunkers) and you do not have to rake them after.
- To test my theory: Try to play The Hoot at Osprey. It is a wasteland style. After that, play Heathland at Osprey, and prepare to look for lost balls that land on the fairway

Just my 2 cents...

[Grass Roots Tour]

Kill the huge weeds under the trees to make finding my tee shots easier. Private clubs do this well.

[Bellyhungry]

Kill the huge weeds under the trees to make finding my tee shots easier. Private clubs do this well.
Couldn't agree more...If anyone has a problem with that, just look at Augusta National.

[mirak]

A simple way would be to implement a time clock system! You would punch your score card when you tee off and on the tee box at 4 and 7.... then just before you start the back nine a ranger/ marshal would need to validate your time... if you are late for more than a few "tolerance" minutes you then get a partial refund and get refused from playing the back nine.


The idea of the 2 check points at 4 and 7 is so that you can pick up the pace if you have to, so being kicked out doesn't look like a surprise to you at 10.





Another one would be to prove handicap to determine what tees you can play. Leave your EGO aside, play what you are capable.. or pay a "premium" for the golf course to leave some extra time after you tee off to compensate for your slow play and not get the guys behind you screwed up.

[Grass Roots Tour]

I like the handicap idea, MIRAK.

[tjhayko]

A simple way would be to implement a time clock system! You would punch your score card when you tee off and on the tee box at 4 and 7.... then just before you start the back nine a ranger/ marshal would need to validate your time... if you are late for more than a few "tolerance" minutes you then get a partial refund and get refused from playing the back nine.


The idea of the 2 check points at 4 and 7 is so that you can pick up the pace if you have to, so being kicked out doesn't look like a surprise to you at 10.





Another one would be to prove handicap to determine what tees you can play. Leave your EGO aside, play what you are capable.. or pay a "premium" for the golf course to leave some extra time after you tee off to compensate for your slow play and not get the guys behind you screwed up.


The only problem with the handicap idea is that if you can move along, I don't really care which tees you play from. Based on my ability I should be playing the white tees on most courses, but my buddies are better than I am, so I end up playing the blues. I don't slow anybody down too much, and we usually finish in under 4:30, which I think is a reasonable pace.