The Official Feedback/Comments Thread!

[TorontoGolfNuts.com]

This site is slowly getting underway and we already have the fortune of getting a great and diverse group of golfers in our forum!

Now we'd like to hear from you about any comments or suggestions you have about TorontoGolfNuts.com forums thus far. It could be about anything ranging from how good or bad a job we're doing or any suggestions on how to improve our site.

We promise to take every comment/suggestion into careful consideration. Thanks and happy posting! :)

[buying_my_toys]

Hi All,

New to TGN as far joining the forums but have often on the site gazing thru the myriad of FS items and often suggesting to colleagues to visit the site.

Now that i'm in the hunt for a hard case travel bag i thought that i start the string of emails.

Cheers and remember to follow through!

[Section ThirtyOne]

Allow posting in FS/FT threads.

It is sorely missed.

[bigbertha]

Ditto!

[Mule56]

Ditto!

Not to pick on you BB, but that last time we had this option, posts just like this one, became the norm. If you include, had one - loved it, picking one up next week, and my buddy plays the exact same one, you could cover half the posts added to any one thread prior to the change being made.
Mule

[akrus]

Not to pick on you BB, but that last time we had this option, posts just like this one, became the norm. If you include, had one - loved it, picking one up next week, and my buddy plays the exact same one, you could cover half the posts added to any one thread prior to the change being made.
Mule

Mule, for every "worthless" post, there were 5 that were helpful. I stick by my opinion that if mods deem a post to be "inappropriate" then delete the bloody thing. IT'S WHAT MODS ARE FOR!!!

If the current method is preferred (by whom? :rolleyes:) , then give up the locking of threads when an item sells - once the poster puts in "SOLD", what in the world is the benefit of locking it????????????????????????

I'm on tons of boards and they operate just fine with an open FS/FT forum. Surely this can't be out of the grasp of this fine, fine board...

[Section ThirtyOne]

Mule, for every "worthless" post, there were 5 that were helpful. I stick by my opinion that if mods deem a post to be "inappropriate" then delete the bloody thing. IT'S WHAT MODS ARE FOR!!!

If the current method is preferred (by whom? :rolleyes:) , then give up the locking of threads when an item sells - once the poster puts in "SOLD", what in the world is the benefit of locking it????????????????????????

I'm on tons of boards and they operate just fine with an open FS/FT forum. Surely this can't be out of the grasp of this fine, fine board...
Ditto! :D

Who really cares if there are comments like that in FS/FT threads. It's come to be expected by now. So long as there is no thread crapping going on, any comments on the product being sold are welcome!

It's not like these extra "rubbish" posts are eating up the bandwidth or processing charges.:rolleyes: If you don't want to read these types of posts, feel free to scroll on by. Draconian measures like this ruin it for those posters that DO have valid input which will now never be heard.

[bigbertha]

Not to pick on you BB, but that last time we had this option, posts just like this one, became the norm. If you include, had one - loved it, picking one up next week, and my buddy plays the exact same one, you could cover half the posts added to any one thread prior to the change being made.
Mule
No offenece taken whatsoever Mule. I think as long as there is no thread crapping, it does make the BST livelier. :hyper:

[The Troll]

I have no opinion on allowing posting but I would be pissed if I was selling something and someone posted that I was asking too much or that they paid less elsewhere.

Trollie

[Big Shooter]

uh-oh, maybe the rule was made 'cause of me
....I love/need to thread-crap!
...gotta inflate the total postings somehow, since I don't own a Mac, I use IE, I don't work in IT, and I'm not a Club Ho! :D :(

[akrus]

I have no opinion on allowing posting but I would be pissed if I was selling something and someone posted that I was asking too much or that they paid less elsewhere.

Trollie

That's obviously where one of the 28 mods here should delete the post - again, it's point 1 in the "how to be a mod" handbook :D

[Leftygolfer30]

I wouldn't mind being able to post replies in the BST area either. NOTHING drives me more crazy than listings not posting whether the club is LH or RH. I think it would just be quicker to ask in the thread so everyone gets the answer.

Just my $0.02 worth...

[kimo62]

Allow posting in FS/FT threads.

It is sorely missed.

I also agree with this.

for example: If someone was looking for something to trade and I chimed in with an offer,the person I offered it to may not want it but someone else may want it that looked at the thread.

I agree that there are numerous BS posts but there were far more good ones than bad.

[Mule56]

Mule, for every "worthless" post, there were 5 that were helpful. I stick by my opinion that if mods deem a post to be "inappropriate" then delete the bloody thing. IT'S WHAT MODS ARE FOR!!!

If the current method is preferred (by whom? :rolleyes:) , then give up the locking of threads when an item sells - once the poster puts in "SOLD", what in the world is the benefit of locking it????????????????????????

I'm on tons of boards and they operate just fine with an open FS/FT forum. Surely this can't be out of the grasp of this fine, fine board...

Albert,
For some reason you continue to revert to it's the mod's job to police this issue, when it should actually be up a members job to not violate the thread crapping rule. The board should not be a power play for the mod's.
I cruise a couple of other forums and I can tell you that I see more thread crapping in the B/S/T forum than I do any were else. As a matter of fact I am current logged into one of the others ones, and the first post in a thread selling a driver is a crap from someone that states, "What's wrong is it not working for you any more". There are total of 18 posts in the thread and only 10 of the posts are relevant (and some of them stretch the word relevant) to the sale of the driver.
One thing that the 5 mod's (not 28) have been instructed to do is try and remain as invisible as possible. I not sure were your knowledge of what the moderators have guidelines comes from, but deleting multiple post in one thread is not invisible in my books.
Mule

[akrus]

Albert,
For some reason you continue to revert to it's the mod's job to police this issue, when it should actually be up a members job to not violate the thread crapping rule. The board should not be a power play for the mod's.
I cruise a couple of other forums and I can tell you that I see more thread crapping in the B/S/T forum than I do any were else. As a matter of fact I am current logged into one of the others ones, and the first post in a thread selling a driver is a crap from someone that states, "What's wrong is it not working for you any more". There are total of 18 posts in the thread and only 10 of the posts are relevant (and some of them stretch the word relevant) to the sale of the driver.
One thing that the 5 mod's (not 28) have been instructed to do is try and remain as invisible as possible. I not sure were your knowledge of what the moderators have guidelines comes from, but deleting multiple post in one thread is not invisible in my books.
Mule

What exactly should moderators do?

As you've listed a post that had thread crapping from another board, should I list a worthwhile FS/FT post from another board? C'mon Mule, what do you think you mods are for?

Shouldn't it be up to members to use the "report a post" link that is available if they feel something is wrong in their thread???

I was being sarcastic with the number of 28. Guess you missed it.

Give me a break - tell ya's what, give me mod status of FS/FT and open it up.

Mods, no matter on which board, think they're so hard done by - if you can't handle the work, don't do it. No one is forcing anyone to be a mod.

It's obvious I'm not the only one that feels this way - I may be the only one to be blunt enough and spell it all out, however.

[Rocknronny]

Give me a break - tell ya's what, give me mod status of FS/FT and open it up.Careful what you wish for Albert.;)
RR

[Big Shooter]

I'd like to vote for Albert 4 MOD, need some representation from The West (since Mule has got The East covered!) ;)

[golf nut]

Allow posting in FS/FT threads.

It is sorely missed.

I'll 5th that.

[Mule56]

Mods, no matter on which board, think they're so hard done by - if you can't handle the work, don't do it. No one is forcing anyone to be a mod.


Albert those are your words. I actually enjoy it. I was asked if I want this task and I gratefully accepted it.
To answer your question of what should we be doing, exactly what we are chartered by the list owners. If you get your wish and become a mod, you'll get a chance to look at the list of responsibilities. Oh by the way, I didn't miss the sarcasm, but in case someone else took you literally, I stated the fact.
Mule

[wayland]

Our BST forum has been quite pathetic since the lockdown. Yes there were the occasional crapthreads but if you look at early 2006 and 2005 there was alot more transactions happening in there. The mod's have said that all questions can be asked via PM but with only 50 pm's max, it's really not hard to fill up, especially when you have an ongoing convo with someone that you don't want to delete until the transaction is finalized.

On another note. Did anyone actually count the "Which course should we have TGN tourney at?" thread? I know Bondhead came out on top of the polls early but then alot of people actually rescinded their votes via a posting and voted for Copetown. However, the numbers don't reflect it in the poll because you can't vote more than once and can't rescind a vote.

[akrus]

Albert those are your words. I actually enjoy it. I was asked if I want this task and I gratefully accepted it.
To answer your question of what should we be doing, exactly what we are chartered by the list owners. If you get your wish and become a mod, you'll get a chance to look at the list of responsibilities. Oh by the way, I didn't miss the sarcasm, but in case someone else took you literally, I stated the fact.
Mule

Hey Bob, I know your skin is tough and that's part of why I don't worry about pulling punches with you. You know where I'm coming from and I know your position. I've moderated 2 forums in the past and know it's a thankless job. The reason I have to direct my words at you is simply because the management of TGN prefers to be hidden and unknown, whereas you seem to be the only person to speak up.

As for me wishing to be a mod - you're missing it - I couldn't care less about being a moderator. What I do have a problem with is the way the FS/FT forum is set up. My point in offering to mod that forum is that I support opening it up. Being a mod means nothing to me - having forums that work mean everything.

[Pingnut]

I'm all for opening up the BST for posting, although I'm not sure what the original intent was for setting it up the way it is.
Perhaps racmbs had something to do with it..................... Everyone blame him :D

[Grass Roots Tour]

I'll 5th that.


6TH from me !

[golferboy]

Open up the BST forum.......its so boring now..........no online battles taking place..........:rolleyes:

[racmbs]

Open up the BST forum.......its so boring now..........no online battles taking place..........:rolleyes:

Agreed...the site is becoming very dry.....

Damn censor police

[skt07]

Allow posting in FS/FT threads.

It is sorely missed.

Agreed! Of the 5 or 6 other golf forums I frequent, this is the only one that doesn't allow posting in the B/S/T.

On forums that allow posting in the B/S/T, I find I learn a lot just by reading the seller's answers to the questions posted. This can only occur via PM here, so the opportunity for knowledge sharing is lost.

[el tigre]

First of all, the B/S/T is NOT intended to be a discussion forum. It is a place to do business. The criteria for success has nothing to do with the amount of "action" going on there - it is whether or not members are able to buy and sell golf stuff successfully.

Secondly, the reason why it has been slow lately is because there is 6 feet of snow on the ground. Not a lot of club 'hoing goes on in the dead of winter - here or on any other golf forums. It will pick up again in the spring.

Also, the no-posting rule does more than prevent thread-crapping and product-boosting (postings from friends about how great a club is so it will sell at a higher price). It also helps to enforce the "24-hour bumping" rule - which would be rendered meaningless if B/S/T threads could be constantly bumped to the top with banter and discussion.

[bigbertha]

Secondly, the reason why it has been slow lately is because there is 6 feet of snow on the ground. Not a lot of club 'hoing goes on in the dead of winter - here or on any other golf forums. It will pick up again in the spring.

What snow? May be in Ottawa?:p

Seriously, if I was given a choice I rather have a bit more discussion than it being so dead in the B/S/T area. I think the report a post button is there for a reason. Why ruin it for everyone with a few bad apples?

[The Troll]

What snow? May be in Ottawa?:p


Come on over to Hamilton or up the road to Barrie. :D

[Mule56]

Hey Bob, I know your skin is tough and that's part of why I don't worry about pulling punches with you. You know where I'm coming from and I know your position. I've moderated 2 forums in the past and know it's a thankless job. The reason I have to direct my words at you is simply because the management of TGN prefers to be hidden and unknown, whereas you seem to be the only person to speak up.

As for me wishing to be a mod - you're missing it - I couldn't care less about being a moderator. What I do have a problem with is the way the FS/FT forum is set up. My point in offering to mod that forum is that I support opening it up. Being a mod means nothing to me - having forums that work mean everything.

Albert,
You know I would not think you have any thing but the best intentions in this discussion. If you stopped being straight up, I would then be worried.
I will tell you that the TGN management does see these discussions and although you may not see a reply, you can be certain that they do value the input.
Mule

[Big Shooter]

who knew that THIS thread would take 2+ years to get some "action?!" :cool:

[racmbs]

On another note. Did anyone actually count the "Which course should we have TGN tourney at?" thread? I know Bondhead came out on top of the polls early but then alot of people actually rescinded their votes via a posting and voted for Copetown. However, the numbers don't reflect it in the poll because you can't vote more than once and can't rescind a vote.

Lol...that's another can of worms. But it's a sure sign of just how sponsors are properly supported eh? :rolleyes:

[wayland]

In summary, every end user that has voiced an opinion wants the BST opened up and the only ones to disagree are the mods/mgmt. Good to see each side of the fence drinking the same kool-aid. :rolleyes:

As to low traffic due to the season. I was referring to low volume of traffic even back in the fall. I don't know of any other forums who lockdown their BST like this and it's not like TGN's BST forums are revolutionary in terms of user experience so why is it the mgmt seem to think they have problems that no other forum has?

Regardless, it's management's call as to what they do here. Why ask for feedback if when every user to chime in asks for the same thing; you don't relent?

[akrus]

In summary, every end user that has voiced an opinion wants the BST opened up and the only ones to disagree are the mods/mgmt. Good to see each side of the fence drinking the same kool-aid. :rolleyes:

As to low traffic due to the season. I was referring to low volume of traffic even back in the fall. I don't know of any other forums who lockdown their BST like this and it's not like TGN's BST forums are revolutionary in terms of user experience so why is it the mgmt seem to think they have problems that no other forum has?

Regardless, it's management's call as to what they do here. Why ask for feedback if when every user to chime in asks for the same thing; you don't relent?

They asked for feedback in Nov 2004 (thread start date), maybe times have changed since...

Surely the calls to open up the forum have been heard and we will continue to raise this subject, when warranted.

A revolution brewing...

:D

[el tigre]

In summary, every end user that has voiced an opinion wants the BST opened up and the only ones to disagree are the mods/mgmt. Good to see each side of the fence drinking the same kool-aid. :rolleyes: My opinion would not be any different if I was not a moderator. IMHO the B/S/T is NOT a discussion forum but a place for business. I have not heard any compelling arguments WHY opening up B/S/T threads to everyone would make it a better place for business.

IMHO negotiations between buyers and sellers should be done in private. When you buy clubs at GT, you don't get to hear all the questions that every previous buyer asked. If the seller forgot some important information, they can (and should) edit their original post. But ultimately it should be up to the seller to decide what is important. If they screw it up, their stuff just won't sell.

As to low traffic due to the season. I was referring to low volume of traffic even back in the fall. I don't know of any other forums who lockdown their BST like this and it's not like TGN's BST forums are revolutionary in terms of user experience so why is it the mgmt seem to think they have problems that no other forum has? Personally, I think other forum DO have problems.

It is not just thread-crapping that is an issue (this is actually quite rare). The bigger problem is thread-jacking - and I see this ALL the time on other forums. Seller lists some irons, his buddy asks how that driver he bought is working, somebody else says they have the same one and its great, and BTW how did that shaft work for you - before you know you have 30 posts of banter that potential buyers have to scroll through to figure out what is going on with the irons being sold. I've seen multiple-item postings go on FOREVER with this stuff.

At FGI they also have a strict bumping rule, and it is pretty much useless. It only really applies to new members, because long-time posters are constantly having their threads bumped to the top with banter from others. Is that fair?

[racmbs]

As much as I am against some of the policies adopted by this site, the one thing I will agree on is the no posting policy in the BST, as it's just not needed. Flame me, tar me, kick me, punch me, do whatever you want....many have asked the question in PM or person since I left moderating and I will answer it.

YES, I was the one responsible for raising a big stink about the amount of freakin' BS that was going on in the BST which was a place designed to do BUSINESS, not talk about the weather and how much you liked that driver that el tigre is selling, but brought back to GT as it sucked so much and didn't think it was worth $500. What benefit does an ad in the BST really have when all is lost when one or more members decide to take it upon themselves to have a field day in the OPs' thread, crapping in it like they've just downed a quart of prune juice. In the end, who cares whether or not one can post a reply in the BST, other than the OP!! What this is really all about is having the freedom to do so and one's ability to speak their mind in a forum that was never designed with the intention of making it a discussion forum from the very beginning. If the OP fails to add detail to the item, fails to update their profile to allow for PM's or emails, or fails to respond to PM's/emails in a timely fashion for questions relating to their items......then TOUGH LUCK, you snooze, you lose. After the sale, you have a problem, that's what the iTrader Rating system is for.

HOWEVER

One big thing I was against and am STILL against, is the fact that when one posts an item for sale it should be MANDATORY that it accompany a picture, so as to rule out any question as to the authenticy or condition of the item being sold. Who cares how eBay runs things....TGN is not eBay, and if it followed how everyone else runs their site, then they'd be suffering from an identity crisis along the way. I'll be honest...if I'm interested in a product in the BST and the OP doesn't have pictures to either post or supply, buh-bye. www.golfwrx.com is becoming the leading site on the net for buying/selling/trading golf equipment, along with other things....and even they require photo's of merchandise being BST'd on their site. I'll tell you, along with the rating system adopted, I feel a lot more comfortable buying off that site than I do here, especially if it's a n00b to TGN.

As for other things that go on on this site, it was like talking to a brick wall sometimes, so what's even the point in this thread anyway? At the end of the day, things will be done the way they always have been in the past.......my way, or the highway.

End of my freakin' rant.

[Pingnut]

Bump... :hush:

Since everyone is posting there thoughts on the subject - I'll share my 2 cents for what it's worth.

This is a forum where people post to talk about golf... I don't see a problem if what the members want to talk about is the golf items that someone has for sale?? If the seller / trader / buyer has an issue with a particular post in their thread - report it.

The BST forum is always the most active on this site, even without allowing general posting in it. I think we are missing out on lots of good stuff (whether it is questions, opinions on the product or someone vouching for the seller) by keeping the threads closed. Some of you think it's useless - I think it's great.

I would suggest that if the BST stays closed for posting (which I'm not in favor of) that the Bump gets banned all together.. Either a price drop (with a minimum) or definite status change like Sold is required to add to a thread.

There is nothing worse than getting suckered into looking at someone's BST thread when nothing has changed and they've just bumped it for the 20th time in 19 days. Not mentioning the names of particular members from Ottawa or London :eek: :rofl:


-------------
btw Scotty - I'm also in favor of requiring pictures to help protect our members and guests. We don't hear of a lot of issues and hopefully there aren't any, but that doesn't mean there won't be some in the future. Lots of fakes and scams in the golf world these days.

[racmbs]

Bump... :hush:

Since everyone is posting there thoughts on the subject - I'll share my 2 cents for what it's worth.

This is a forum where people post to talk about golf... I don't see a problem if what the members want to talk about is the golf items that someone has for sale?? If the seller / trader / buyer has an issue with a particular post in their thread - report it.

The BST forum is always the most active on this site, even without allowing general posting in it. I think we are missing out on lots of good stuff (whether it is questions, opinions on the product or someone vouching for the seller) by keeping the threads closed. Some of you think it's useless - I think it's great.

I would suggest that if the BST stays closed for posting (which I'm not in favor of) that the Bump gets banned all together.. Either a price drop (with a minimum) or definite status change like Sold is required to add to a thread.

There is nothing worse than getting suckered into looking at someone's BST thread when nothing has changed and they've just bumped it for the 20th time in 19 days. Not mentioning the names of particular members from Ottawa or London :eek: :rofl:

Wait, you are a Moderator going against policies that you were brought on board to adopt, protect and enforce.

You sir, are herby BANNED 30 days. :p :D

[guitarman]

When you buy clubs at GT, you don't get to hear all the questions that every previous buyer asked.

Which is one of the few advantages to buying online.

[akrus]

This topic could make a good subject for a poll...

too bad it wouldn't mean anything.

[el tigre]

I think we are missing out on lots of good stuff (whether it is questions, opinions on the product or someone vouching for the seller) by keeping the threads closed. Some of you think it's useless - I think it's great.
It has nothing to do with whether questions or opinions are useless or not. It is simply that this is a business section of the site, and I believe that the seller should be in control of the information on his product in his thread. Threads have a tendency to take a life of their own - which is great in a discussion forum, but not necessarily good when you're trying to clear some space in the basement!

As for pictures, that would be a pretty onerous requirement for a local golf forum like TGN. Not everyone has a digital camera, and some people can't take a decent picture anyway. I've done plenty of deals here without pictures, and they've all been good.

I don't buy or sell on Ottawa Golf anymore, but I when I did I never had pictures and never asked for them. I just met the guy somewhere where the condition can be checked out in person - I even let people try my clubs if they wanted to meet at a driving range and they had a decent swing. Aren't most deals done locally here too??

[racmbs]

This topic could make a good subject for a poll...

too bad it wouldn't mean anything.

I say we start a poll to see whether or not polls are effective....:D

[skt07]

I don't really see B/S/T as a place of business. It's more like a place for a bunch of golf junkies to hang out and swap equipment. No one is making a living off of the TGN B/S/T. So I don't think the normal business rules apply here.

It should be noted that the main reason I joined TGN was because of the B/S/T. I found it great that there was a TO-based site that allowed me to buy and sell my golf stuff with locals AND talk about the stuff that was being sold.

A final thought. We assume that the seller has the answers to all the questions being posed to them via PM. I don't know about you guys, but I certainly don't know every single detail of every club that has passed through my hands. If the question was posted publicly, there is a good chance that someone on TGN will know the answer.

[el tigre]

I don't really see B/S/T as a place of business. It's more like a place for a bunch of golf junkies to hang out and swap equipment. No one is making a living off of the TGN B/S/T. So I don't think the normal business rules apply here. IMHO, if money is changing hands then it is a business transaction.

A final thought. We assume that the seller has the answers to all the questions being posed to them via PM. I don't know about you guys, but I certainly don't know every single detail of every club that has passed through my hands. If the question was posted publicly, there is a good chance that someone on TGN will know the answer. Good point, but why wouldn't you post that question in the Golf Gear & Equipment section? Its pretty easy to start a "What's the hosel size of a XXX" thread there, and you'll get the attention of exactly those people who would know. A lot of people don't even bother looking at B/S/T threads for stuff they're not interested in buying themselves.

[golferboy]

Posting in the BST forum provides feedback on the quality of the listing and provides answers to all, instead of just the member pm'ing the question.

There are many instances that I have noticed with the increase of new members and therefore more first time listers, many ads dont have adequate description, and lack picture,,,,etc...By posting a question, everyone can see the answer. through pm, well you might get the same question several times over....and thats annoying from a seller perspective.
In a lot of cases I ignore posts where there are no pics, and not enough detail, and many times error in the listing(irons have reg flex s300 shafts????).
Sure we dont want thread crapping, but we need to find a happy medium here to get this site some more activity....

[wayland]

A customer comes in your restaurant and orders a steak medium rare. You bring out their steak and the customer cuts into it and politely informs you that it is undercooked and that they ordered it medium rare.

manager: "But sir, that *is* medium rare; cooked throughout with a pink centre"
manager [to another waiter]: "hey Joe, whaddya think? is that rare or medium rare?"
joe: "dat dere is medium rare!"
customer: "Look, that is too bloody for my tastes and I can't eat it, give it to me medium rare please"
manager: "uhh...welll..sir...you see....you ordered medium rare and that's what I've given you. maybe you

This thread is obviously not resolving anything. I've already pointed out that the endusers have repeatedly asked for the old style BST to be reinstated (with exception of mouthbreather racmbs), only to be refused by mgmt/mods for the reasons they keep stating.

Look I know it may result in a bit of threadcrap, whatever but I WANT MY STEAK MEDIUM RARE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. ;)

[akrus]

IMHO, if money is changing hands then it is a business transaction.

Should all B/S/T posters pay to be sponsors then?

So far you're the biggest proponent of the way things are currently run. The majority in this thread are against it.

I propose that TGN mgmt open up B/S/T for a trial period, say until May 24 or some important date like that... then see what the forum participants vote, we've had a taste of the nazi way, now let's see a free and open society!

:P

Oh, and we're all comin' over to your place wayland, fire up the grill!

I don't really see B/S/T as a place of business. It's more like a place for a bunch of golf junkies to hang out and swap equipment. No one is making a living off of the TGN B/S/T. So I don't think the normal business rules apply here.

It should be noted that the main reason I joined TGN was because of the B/S/T. I found it great that there was a TO-based site that allowed me to buy and sell my golf stuff with locals AND talk about the stuff that was being sold.

A final thought. We assume that the seller has the answers to all the questions being posed to them via PM. I don't know about you guys, but I certainly don't know every single detail of every club that has passed through my hands. If the question was posted publicly, there is a good chance that someone on TGN will know the answer.

Excellent points, skt07.

[racmbs]

(with exception of mouthbreather racmbs)

HEY!!!!

WTF is a "mouthbreather" anyway....you drink to much Chianti over the weekend bro? :rofl:

[akrus]

IMHO, if money is changing hands then it is a business transaction.

Good point, but why wouldn't you post that question in the Golf Gear & Equipment section? Its pretty easy to start a "What's the hosel size of a XXX" thread there, and you'll get the attention of exactly those people who would know. A lot of people don't even bother looking at B/S/T threads for stuff they're not interested in buying themselves.

The one forum I don't read is the equipment forum, I just find the gear head talk a little too dry - wonder how many noobs are turned off as well. Allowing a helpful individual to post may just make not only a sale, but a very happy buyer that may have passed if not for that assistance.

As evidenced by all the lurkers that are on this board, there's loads of window shoppers - some just need a push in order to become a shopper.

HEY!!!!

WTF is a "mouthbreather" anyway....you drink to much Chianti over the weekend bro? :rofl:

I would guess a Sens fan, but what do I know...

[el tigre]

This thread is obviously not resolving anything. I've already pointed out that the endusers have repeatedly asked for the old style BST to be reinstated (with exception of mouthbreather racmbs), only to be refused by mgmt/mods for the reasons they keep stating. Wayland, I actually see the division as being between sellers and browsers/potential buyers. My responses have nothing to do with my moderator duties - they are totally based on my experience as a seller here.

Right now I use TGN and Ebay almost exclusively when I have a club for sale, because as a seller I have total control over my "listing" on these sites. On other forums like GEA/FGI once you start the thread in the Swap Shop, it can go anywhere. That may be fun for browsers, but not for the person selling.

I used to hang out at the GEA Swap Shop, but I quit because of the free-for-all atmosphere. I would check it out once or twice a day, and it would take me over an hour each time to search through the new messages - never mind responding to some. People were listing the same clubs in 4 different forums, bumping ALL their threads 3-4 times a day because it would be off the first page in an hour, and 3-page threads were the norm because of the constant thread-jacking. There are lots of good people and some great stuff over there, but I just don't have the time and I don't want to deal with the BS.

If TGN became like the GEA Swap Shop, I wouldn't sell here - everything would go straight to Ebay. And without sellers, you have NO action at all.

[golferboy]

Well lets see the stats on how many listings since the bst forum was locked have resulted in sales! I'll bet not many....I dont see that many locked threads as a result of sales.....
Its stagnant here.....if you can post to bst...theres more interest....theres more action and more sales.......


Wayland, I actually see the division as being between sellers and browsers/potential buyers. My responses have nothing to do with my moderator duties - they are totally based on my experience as a seller here.

Right now I use TGN and Ebay almost exclusively when I have a club for sale, because as a seller I have total control over my "listing" on these sites. On other forums like GEA/FGI once you start the thread in the Swap Shop, it can go anywhere. That may be fun for browsers, but not for the person selling.

I used to hang out at the GEA Swap Shop, but I quit because of the free-for-all atmosphere. I would check it out once or twice a day, and it would take me over an hour each time to search through the new messages - never mind responding to some. People were listing the same clubs in 4 different forums, bumping ALL their threads 3-4 times a day because it would be off the first page in an hour, and 3-page threads were the norm because of the constant thread-jacking. There are lots of good people and some great stuff over there, but I just don't have the time and I don't want to deal with the BS.

If TGN became like the GEA Swap Shop, I wouldn't sell here - everything would go straight to Ebay. And without sellers, you have NO action at all.

[golf nut]

There might be another solution to the BST, one with responses and one without, in the meantime...

I need a Custom Scotty lime headcover.. name your price :)

Paul

[Big Shooter]

Didn't I mention in a thread I started recently to "invite guests to join" that there wasn't too much in the way of "politics?!"
...SCRATCH that!! :confused: :hush:

[akrus]

There might be another solution to the BST, one with responses and one without, in the meantime...

I need a Custom Scotty lime headcover.. name your price :)

Paul

Great idea, Paul - have two forums and let the poster decide which would be more appropriate for his/her sale.

[wayland]

Let's say you are looking to buy something and post
"WTB: animal headcover"

Being able to reply to a BST thread means people can reply to that thread offering what they have available for sale. Those sellers may not have thought to put that dumb "Frank" headcover FS but seeing that someone wants it, they can reply.

"Wayland, they can PM the original poster as we've stated repeatedly"

Yes they can but here's the catch. By posting replies to the thread, you create more traffic and impulse buys. I may be browsing thru the thread and see something catchy and decide that I want one also. Private PM's don't allow for this.

[el tigre]

Let's say you are looking to buy something and post
"WTB: animal headcover"

Being able to reply to a BST thread means people can reply to that thread offering what they have available for sale. Those sellers may not have thought to put that dumb "Frank" headcover FS but seeing that someone wants it, they can reply.
I agree with you here. I think a separate section for Want-to-Buy and Want-to-Trade items that is open to all makes a lot of sense for this reason. If something is available both for FS or FT, then they would have a choice of where to post it - the closed FS section or the open WTB/WTT section.

[racmbs]

Here's another suggestion..

STOP SPAMMING ME WITH THAT DAMN SURVEY!!!!!! :rofl:

Holy crap man....no matter how many times I clear the cache, even after I got suckered in and responded to it, that damn window keeps popping up and is driving me NUTS.

Make it a sticky for cryin' out loud.....

[akrus]

stop clearin' the cache - like some individuals, if you ignore it, it will go away...

[racmbs]

stop clearin' the cache - like some individuals, if you ignore it, it will go away...

Can't....I'm addicted to clearing my "cache" :D

Either way, that bloody pop-up is freakin' annoying and a bloddy nuisance if you ask me. Everything else on this site is a sticky....just make the survey a sticky.

[akrus]

Can't....I'm addicted to clearing my "cache" :D

Either way, that bloody pop-up is freakin' annoying and a bloddy nuisance if you ask me. Everything else on this site is a sticky....just make the survey a sticky.

I say just get rid of the survey all together, it's obvious by this thread that it doesn't matter what we think...

[Mok]

Hi all,

Thank you for your responses.

A number of you are complaining about the usefulness of this thread, let me explain that this thread is intended for feedback and the owners of this site do consider the feedback of it's members. However, we do not automatically implement suggestion by members.

As for the Buy/Sell/Trade restrictions, although it may be unpleasant for a few of you, I find that the rule is extremely helpful and makes it fair for all members in regards to thread bumping and thread crapping.

As for locking it up, whoever mentioned that is correct, we do not have to lock up threads in the B/S/T forum, that is no longer necessary.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

[Kace]

Here's my little contribution to this discussion. If the B/S/T forum was open to replies, then the admin could set that forum up so the threads are displayed in the order of the date they were created, not in the order that the last post was made (like they are now).

I was an admin on a local automotive forum and I browse a number of other forums and whenever I am looking through the classified forums on those sites I always change the settings to display the threads in the order of the date they were created. This then eliminates having to "bump" a thread since it will not move it to the top and discussion can still take place without it interfering with other classified threads.

My deux cents.

[akrus]

It's a closed case, Mike. This gets brought up every couple of months and the same "we don't care what the majority says, we like it this way" rules.

It's just fun to revisit every now and again - get to watch people get bent out of shape.

[Kace]

Fair enough...so here's a "beating a dead horse" gif. :D

http://www.btinternet.com/~tonyrichardson/horse.gif

[racmbs]

It's a closed case, Mike. This gets brought up every couple of months and the same "we don't care what the majority says, we like it this way" rules.

It's just fun to revisit every now and again - get to watch people get bent out of shape.

:D

I'm so done commenting on how retarded these threads are....they serve no purpose, get a member absolutely nowhere and just proves that all falls on deaf ears as it always has.

I mean, look at how stupid the Networking/Contacts thread has become....posts being deleted because they have names of businesses that have NOTHING to do with TGN or the industry it surrounds. Networking is what makes businesses grow...and if policies like this continue to be adopted here, then the 100 or so ACTIVE members that post here and make this site what it is, and not the inflated 3,000+, will certainly start thinking of posting in other forums that don't enforce rules that border on babysitting.

I say it speaks about the same volumes as those pukes over at PureGolf, posting nonsense about Swain and his business....

[Mok]

It's a closed case, Mike. This gets brought up every couple of months and the same "we don't care what the majority says, we like it this way" rules.

It's just fun to revisit every now and again - get to watch people get bent out of shape.
Hi akrus,

Who said we don't care? Just because we don't take action on a suggestion does not imply this.

It's nice to have suggestions by our members and although a few of the top posters posted in this thread against our restrictions, I hardly think it's majority.

And even if it was majority, it doesn't mean rules change due to majority here.

Here's my little contribution to this discussion. If the B/S/T forum was open to replies, then the admin could set that forum up so the threads are displayed in the order of the date they were created, not in the order that the last post was made (like they are now).

I was an admin on a local automotive forum and I browse a number of other forums and whenever I am looking through the classified forums on those sites I always change the settings to display the threads in the order of the date they were created. This then eliminates having to "bump" a thread since it will not move it to the top and discussion can still take place without it interfering with other classified threads.

My deux cents.

great suggestion, my only concern is if the seller decides to drop the price after a week, the thread would be buried, otherwise, this is not a bad suggestion...

[akrus]

Hi akrus,

Who said we don't care? Just because we don't take action on a suggestion does not imply this.

It's nice to have suggestions by our members and although a few of the top posters posted in this thread against our restrictions, I hardly think it's majority.

And even if it was majority, it doesn't mean rules change due to majority here.



I'm sure you guys have your discussions and you tell mods what to say/do publicly so there's certainly "behind the scenes" activity, but a lack of action or discussion with members makes it appear as though mgmt doesn't care.

Look at all the discussion in this thread - look at previous threads that are similar. Clearly there's something worth talking about but not much open discussion has occurred. We've heard why mods like to tow the line, why other forums have problems they have, blah, blah, blah. Haven't heard anything from mgmt until your posts today, and there's not even a hint of maybe considering compromises.

[Mok]

I'm sure you guys have your discussions and you tell mods what to say/do publicly so there's certainly "behind the scenes" activity, but a lack of action or discussion with members makes it appear as though mgmt doesn't care.

Look at all the discussion in this thread - look at previous threads that are similar. Clearly there's something worth talking about but not much open discussion has occurred. We've heard why mods like to tow the line, why other forums have problems they have, blah, blah, blah. Haven't heard anything from mgmt until your posts today, and there's not even a hint of maybe considering compromises.
The reason for lack of posts for matters like this is because we are merely taking suggestions from here into consideration.

[Bellyhungry]

I learned in my work place that if you want to solicit feedbacks from the masses, the expectation is that you will act on them, and you need to be prepared to deal with the post-feedbacks enquiries.

Otherwise, people will have the mind set of 'Well, you did nothing with my input last time, why would I care to respond?'

[Mule56]

I'm sure you guys have your discussions and you tell mods what to say/do publicly so there's certainly "behind the scenes" activity,


Albert,
I can tell you without a doubt that this does not occur. The TGN management provides the mod's with frame work guidelines. We then carry out our duties under these guidelines and a lot of times take the lead in providing our ideas back to the management.
Only if we are unsure, or can not decide between us, do we ask for input. Our words, although severally controlled at times, are not controlled by the management. We do that because of the nature of our function.
Mule

[Mok]

I learned in my work place that if you want to solicit feedbacks from the masses, the expectation is that you will act on them, and you need to be prepared to deal with the post-feedbacks enquiries.

Otherwise, people will have the mind set of 'Well, you did nothing with my input last time, why would I care to respond?'
nice, i wish they put a big screen tv at work then.

[Big Shooter]

Only if we are unsure, or can not decide between us, do we ask for input. Our words, although severally controlled at times, are not controlled by the management. We do that because of the nature of our function.
Mule

So, You, Ronny, el tigre & Pingnut never play as a 4-some?! :D ;)

[el tigre]

I learned in my work place that if you want to solicit feedbacks from the masses, the expectation is that you will act on them, and you need to be prepared to deal with the post-feedbacks enquiries.

Otherwise, people will have the mind set of 'Well, you did nothing with my input last time, why would I care to respond?' In every workplace I've ever been in, "acting" on suggestions means that they are raised and discussed. It doesn't mean they are put into action.

The workplace is not a democracy, and ultimately the owners make the decisions and always will regardless of whether feedback is solicited or not.

[westbeach]

Ok, I’ll come out of retirement for this one.

As some of you may or may not have noticed, I sold and bought a lot of stuff off the BST forum. Not so much now but definitely I have historically. I couldn’t really care less what the TGN management team decides because at the end of the day, as a seller (not a businessman), I’ll still be able to sell my goods elsewhere. Somebody out there will benefit from my sale. Why would this concern TGN? Well, in my humble opinion, I feel I have always supported TGN membership by offering practically new equipment at prices much lower than retail prices and often times, I’ve helped members attain clubs which they otherwise couldn’t afford or wouldn’t have access to. So what does this have to do with threads being locked, etc?

I am not a sponsor because I do not intend to make my income from the membership or in some sponsor’s cases, rip people off. It is not my profession nor my trade. I do have a hobby which I share with over 3000 thousand other members and never was there a case where a transaction I made was detrimental to the buyer. I have only had one case of buyer’s remorse which I did not accept due to the nature of the transaction. So what does this have to do with BST and such? Well, I enjoy supporting the members of the forum, whether by writing comprehensive reviews or by giving great deals on my “used” equipment. However, my experiences with TGN is such that the management of site has gone downhill from the first few months I was a member. Illogical rules, decisions and especially inappropriate selection of moderators did it in for me. If the moderators were used as a puppet to express the views of TGN and not their own, then why be a moderator in the first place? Might as well be called TGN puppets. Members turn into moderators of the site because they add value to the site. Not because they have a billion posts or because they ask to be.

Anyways, onto the topic of the thread. How does the current rule affect the buyer/seller of the club? Well, like all other threads, threadcrap will occur. I don’t understand why a forum would implement rules and not punish those who break it. If you put in no threadcrapping in BST threads, what does management do about it if somebody does indeed threadcrap. NOTHING. No suspensions, nothing. So instead of creating a rule where the offender is punished, the victim is punished. Instead of allowing a seller to answer questions in his thread which benefits themselves and potential buyers, all things must be done by PM or email now and it creates a hassle for both seller and legitimate buyer. So, at the end of the day, who loses?

As for El_tigre point that whenever money changes hand, it’s business.....I HIGHLY disagree. Recently, I sold a set of irons to a TGN member (didn’t post in BST) at my cost. I could’ve EASILY sold it for double what I paid. Now, would you say I did this for business or for the benefit of the TGN member?

[Rocknronny]

especially inappropriate selection of moderators did it in for me.Ted could you please elaborate on this comment and what you think was inappropriate with there selections.
RR

[Pingnut]

I've been on the receiving end of a Westbeach BST transaction. This guy is all class.

I try too echo the same sentiments - when I get a good deal on something I like to pass it on. I'm not searching ebay for bargains so I can mark-up them up on here to make a buck and support my own club ho habits....

[skt07]

In every workplace I've ever been in, "acting" on suggestions means that they are raised and discussed. It doesn't mean they are put into action.

The workplace is not a democracy, and ultimately the owners make the decisions and always will regardless of whether feedback is solicited or not.

And ultimately employees decide whether they want to continue working for a given company.

We do this for fun/leisure. I would never work for a company that doesn't value my opinion. Why would I participate in a forum that does not?

nice, i wish they put a big screen tv at work then.

Wow, you are completely missing the point. While I realize you're being sarcastic, the underlying tone is one of complete disregard for the membership's opinions.

Obviously, the management of a company will not respond to ridiculous/impractical suggestions. However, when a valid concern is raised by multiple employees, it's up to management to respond to that concern with a well thought out statement explaining how that concern will be addressed.

This DOES NOT mean that management must acquiesce to every single demand. It simply means that management has enough respect for its employees to provide a reasonable explanation of why a certain initiative is not practical at this time.

Once this is done, the employees no longer have a good reason to gripe, and those that continue to complain can be identified as the "pot stirrers" and disregarded with little consequence if management so desires.

Statements such as the one below are obviously not enough given the continued reaction of the membership.

Hi all,

Thank you for your responses.

A number of you are complaining about the usefulness of this thread, let me explain that this thread is intended for feedback and the owners of this site do consider the feedback of it's members. However, we do not automatically implement suggestion by members.

As for the Buy/Sell/Trade restrictions, although it may be unpleasant for a few of you, I find that the rule is extremely helpful and makes it fair for all members in regards to thread bumping and thread crapping.

As for locking it up, whoever mentioned that is correct, we do not have to lock up threads in the B/S/T forum, that is no longer necessary.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

[racmbs]

Might as well be called TGN puppets.

EXCUSE ME WB.......

But I prefer the term Muppet over Puppet, kind sir. :D

And just for that comment, I'm going to tell everyone that your 5 wood is really and 11 wood.

[westbeach]

Trust me and everybody else....I don't think you were ever anybody's puppet.

[Bellyhungry]

nice, i wish they put a big screen tv at work then.

I hear you...We are talking about the 'I want it now' generation....

In every workplace I've ever been in, "acting" on suggestions means that they are raised and discussed. It doesn't mean they are put into action.

The workplace is not a democracy, and ultimately the owners make the decisions and always will regardless of whether feedback is solicited or not.

But if you want your employees to feel valued, be prepare to action on their suggestions.

And ultimately employees decide whether they want to continue working for a given company.

We do this for fun/leisure. I would never work for a company that doesn't value my opinion. Why would I participate in a forum that does not?



Wow, you are completely missing the point. While I realize you're being sarcastic, the underlying tone is one of complete disregard for the membership's opinions.

Obviously, the management of a company will not respond to ridiculous/impractical suggestions. However, when a valid concern is raised by multiple employees, it's up to management to respond to that concern with a well thought out statement explaining how that concern will be addressed.

This DOES NOT mean that management must acquiesce to every single demand. It simply means that management has enough respect for its employees to provide a reasonable explanation of why a certain initiative is not practical at this time.

Once this is done, the employees no longer have a good reason to gripe, and those that continue to complain can be identified as the "pot stirrers" and disregarded with little consequence if management so desires.

Statements such as the one below are obviously not enough given the continued reaction of the membership.



You and I are obviously either in similar industry or have similar management philosophy.

[racmbs]

Trust me and everybody else....I don't think you were ever anybody's puppet.

Fair enough....but you still use an 11 wood. :D

I missed you man....great post BTW. :)

[skt07]

You and I are obviously either in similar industry or have similar management philosophy.

Management consulting... if you can call that an industry. And I don't just do the fluffy stuff (contrary to what people might think based on my posts)!

[westbeach]

Ted could you please elaborate on this comment and what you think was inappropriate with there selections.
RR

When the decision maker(s) of a company does not act on the best interest of the company but rather in his/her own best interest, then the decision maker(s) fail his/her responsibilities as a decision maker for the company. Now if the company feels their selection of decision maker(s) is appropriate in these instances, then it would fall under my interpretation of "inappropriate moderator selection".

Do you need me to elaborate more or will this suffice?

[el tigre]

But if you want your employees to feel valued, be prepare to action on their suggestions. Of course, especially if the suggestions are in line with the company's objectives and philosophy.

But judging from some of the responses I've seen on this forum, not everyone seems to understand that. A number of posters seem to believe that B/S/T policy should be changed because the "majority" want it. I disagree. I think they need to put forth compelling reasons to change management's minds - which many posters have done, and therefore we have a lively and meaningful debate. But when the dust clears, it is still a management decision.

As for moderators, ultimately we are rule enforcers rather than rule makers. I have my own opinions, but at the end of the day I wouldn't have a problem moderating either an open or a closed B/S/T forum.

[westbeach]

Fair enough....but you still use an 11 wood. :D

I missed you man....great post BTW. :)

There's really no time for posting with my new position.....let alone man love. :rofl:

This afternoon is just a little slower and thought I would take a break.

[Rocknronny]

When the decision maker(s) of a company does not act on the best interest of the company but rather in his/her own best interest, then the decision maker(s) fail his/her responsibilities as a decision maker of the company. Now if the company feels their selection of decision maker(s) is appropriate in these instances, then it would fall under my interpretation of "inappropriate moderator selection".

Do you need me to elaborate more or will this suffice?Obviously they believe they have made the appropriate decisions with regards to us Mods.;)
RR

[racmbs]

There's really no time for posting with my new position.....let alone man love. :rofl:

This afternoon is just a little slower and thought I would take a break.

Ahh, man love.....

You inherit new clients from the province of Kweebek my friend? :rofl:

I just hope we can hit the links this summer, been a LONG time.....I'm starting to get cabin fever in this bloody place.

[abz-pete]

I've no axe to grind, having only ever made one (very smooth) transaction on BST. What I don't understand is why management seem to be so bloody minded about this.

Thread crapping appears everywhere, yet the regular culprits do not appear to be punished. What's so special about BST? Why can't the culprits simply be banned for a week?

The vast majority of the regulars here would prefer the BST section to be opened up again. It is (or was) the most popular forum on TGN, but if management continue to ignore the wishes of their most important customers, the website can only go downhill.

[racmbs]

the website can only go downhill.

Sometimes, bad things have to happen in order for good things to occur. The reality is, I don't think anyone really gives a damn and you know what......neither do the majority of us here.

[akrus]

Sometimes, bad things have to happen in order for good things to occur. The reality is, I don't think anyone really gives a damn and you know what......neither do the majority of us here.

Actually, it appears that management here doesn't really worry about retaining membership as there's always a new person to fill a spot... so it appears

It's clear that there are a handful of people that post regularly and keep the forum's heart somewhat beating. Then there's a large number that post maybe once a week. A healthy number of lurkers, mixed in with those that leave for good round out total traffic.

Lots of great reasons to consider opening up the forum, even looking beyond the fact that the majority of opinions thus far seem to back it... Isn't this fun?

skt07, I vote you for union president!

Welcome back WB!

[sliceisnice]

hi i am new to this site can some explain to me why my post asking a question was removed thanks

[Rocknronny]

hi i am new to this site can some explain to me why my post asking a question was removed thanksIt was not removed it was only moved to the local pub.
RR

[Pingnut]

hi i am new to this site can some explain to me why my post asking a question was removed thanks

Is this the one you are looking for? http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/showthread.php?t=14706

[sliceisnice]

thanks guys still bumping into walls here

[golf nut]

I really don't understand this, I make decisions every day, it takes all of 2 minutes to create alternative forums for BST, Buy with or without response, sell with or without response etc, what's the difficulty?

Let the membership decide where they wish to buy or sell.

Paul

[racmbs]

I really don't understand this, I make decisions every day, it takes all of 2 minutes to create alternative forums for BST, Buy with or without response, sell with or without response etc, what's the difficulty?

Let the membership decide where they wish to buy or sell.

Paul

Paul...I think we are going to have an interesting night of cards and SIM golf this Friday, when 3/4 of the posters from TGN are all together. :rofl:

It's certainly easy from our point of view, but you are honestly beating a dead horse my friend and are best suited to just let it die and forget trying to figure out the problem...when the problems themselves can't even figure it out. :rolleyes:

[golf nut]

http://www.casshew.com/1deadhorse.gif

[golferboy]

As far as I am concerned the BST forum on this site is dead. I mean there is nothing....no action, no listings, just junk......we need to liven it up and allow posting.....it makes it more interesting....I mean posting to threads in BSt allows for greater disclosure of item details, condition, loft, shaft flex, etc....some of the posts are just poorly composed. In the few times that I have shown any interest in an item, I've PMd the seller, and waited days for a response.....and then find out that critical details have been omitted from the listing, thus wasting my time.

As for the comments regarding the site mgmt not caring what members want....well there's millions more golf nuts out there to replace us...we're expendable.....if they dont care about us members than we stop visiting...and soon are replaced by new members.....

[westbeach]

Lets say I'm a crook and if I'm able to make a BST listing and nobody can post, couldn't I theorectically sell it to 10 buyers?

So, essentially, it's EASIER to commit a fraudulent activity?!?

[bigbertha]

I think ultimately it comes down to we are visiting a site created by "someone". The site owners absolutely have the powers to set up and run the site whichever way they want. Afterall, they are the ones paying the web hosting charge. BUT without members there will be no site. No Members also mean no sponsors. I would think the people that envisioned this site in the first place must be doing this because they want to gather up like-minded golfers like us. Wouldn't it make sense to even relent a little and see if the memebers can self govern? Oh in that case the mods will be all out of a job:eek: :D

[Mule56]

Oh in that case the mods will be all out of a job:eek: :D

Heck no. Us "especially inappropriate selection of moderators" will always be needed to ensure that the spamers and foul mouth folks don't ruin the day. Besides what would the management due with their extra time when they are not practicing puppeteering.:D
Mule

[skt07]

I don't know about most of you, but an active B/S/T is the main reason I frequent golf forums.

TGN's neutered B/S/T is certainly pushing me towards other forums.

[Ems]

I'm part of the TGN board and thought I'll share a bit, since Mok has already spoken up and to give everyone an idea that there are multiple opinions on the board.

There's 7 owners in total and we all have our own separate occupations outside of this site. TGN was founded because the majority of the owners are true golf nuts and do this for fun. We've all grown pretty attached to the site and most of the regulars because it's obviously a community of people that was started because someone had a small idea at the time, and look where it's at now!

Your opinions are heard and despite what Akrus or Racmbs may have assumed, your ideas and suggestions get discussed and debated within the mgmt team. The issue of the BST forum is one of those that are clearly split almost half/half within the team. I fall within the 3 out of 7 who think we should open up the BST. We're meeting again this Saturday to have yet another discussion about this topic. So yes, each time this issue is raised to our attention, even from the mods, there are discussions on it, even if you do not have visibility to it. That's point 1.

2nd point, I will be using the survey to count the number of people who would like the BST opened, so put in your thoughts! I also want to clarify that people who are vocal does not necessarily mean majority, even if you vocally say you are majority. There were also some survey responses that prefer the BST as is. The mgmt team will consider all responses.

3rd point. The mods have been doing a great job and we also want to take into consideration the effort they've put into this site. One very good reason why we chose to keep the BST closed is because we didn't want to add to the mod's workload. We can say it's their job and ask them to be more effective, but I think that's a poor response to people who have put in their fair share of time and effort to help us out. We are considering getting more mods on board to help out for this reason as well.

On that note though, I'm surprised at WB's comments on the mods since you were also selected, but I guess you weren't interested since you never responded.

There were other good arguments for closing the BST to dialogue, and another one of them was how posts can get burried unfairly. I didn't know you can change the order so that it's based on when the thread was created. Thanks for putting it out here, since it'll definitely help add to the discussions!

I hope this clarifies our position.

For everyone who has filled up the survey, thanks for contributing constructively.

[westbeach]

EMS,

I wrote a response to the original PM TGN management sent in the summer/fall but after writing a lengthy reply and having click send and with the windows flag waving forever, I thought it had gone through. Since I didn't keep copies of my PM in my sent box (considering PM's add up fast to the 50 limit), I would've never known if it went through or not. I remember this like it was yesterday because I often wondered if the PM was received. I sincerely apologize if TGN management felt I didn't take the time to respond to such an honorable request.

Regardless, I'll restate why I turned down the offer. Most importantly, I did not agree with the moderator selection(s) which TGN already had in place during that time. I did not agree with how "the enforcer(s) of the rules" continually broke the rules and TGN management never did anything about it. Furthermore, I disagree with one particular moderator selection who campaigned to ban members because of historical personal dealings. My personal belief was so strong on this issue that I refuse to be in any way associated with being a moderator and being classed the same as those I feel as an "inappropriate moderator selection". Thanks but no thanks.

With that said, I appreciate very much the forum TGN management created as a medium for golfers. I'm sure a lot of time and effort is put into this board and wish you guys/girls the best for this coming season.

[TourIQ]

2nd point, I will be using the survey to count the number of people who would like the BST opened, so put in your thoughts! I also want to clarify that people who are vocal does not necessarily mean majority, even if you vocally say you are majority. There were also some survey responses that prefer the BST as is. The mgmt team will consider all responses.
Hi Ems

As a 'Top 15' poster on this site, regarding BST, I say 'OPEN IT UP' to posts!

[akrus]

Your opinions are heard and despite what Akrus or Racmbs may have assumed, your ideas and suggestions get discussed and debated within the mgmt team. The issue of the BST forum is one of those that are clearly split almost half/half within the team. I fall within the 3 out of 7 who think we should open up the BST. We're meeting again this Saturday to have yet another discussion about this topic. So yes, each time this issue is raised to our attention, even from the mods, there are discussions on it, even if you do not have visibility to it. That's point 1.

Ems, take a look at any of the threads that have been started with respect to BST - the majority of those that have posted are pro-opening of the forums. Among those are people such as golferboy that are amongst the largest users of that forum (witness number of transactions done). If they have a problem with it and they are the ones who use it most, it seems quite reasonable to at least offer some sort of compromise. Doing it all behind closed doors amongst yourselves merely comes across as inaction.

Just because I mentioned majority, does not mean that's the only reason - tons of reasons were put forth from a variety of members - it just appeared to fall on deaf ears. The mods are the only ones to come out and then it's an issue of work, etc. Paul (golf nut) had probably the best solution out there - create another BST open to posts and let users choose.

Also, I'm one of the few that cares little about going against what management or mods stand for. I have never been worried about what others think of me. That can be a reason why others may remain silent. I'm sure you all have your mod forum full of my name over the last little while.


2nd point, I will be using the survey to count the number of people who would like the BST opened, so put in your thoughts! I also want to clarify that people who are vocal does not necessarily mean majority, even if you vocally say you are majority. There were also some survey responses that prefer the BST as is. The mgmt team will consider all responses.

As for the survey, I never complete surveys that can't be submitted anonymously. It's a poor system that encourages people to vote the popular vote for fear of repurcussion. The TGN survey is certainly not something I worry about you or any other person seeing my answers to, but it's on principle that I don't complete them. I don't partake in the 3 or 4 phone calls that I get from Cisco partners, Bell partners, etc, at the office due to my position there.

Another problem with surveys is that they can be constructed in such a way to "direct" the answers, quite often towards the goal of the survey's creator. Not saying this is true with TGN's survey, but again it's a reason I don't participate in them.

Finally, I hate pop-ups.


3rd point. The mods have been doing a great job and we also want to take into consideration the effort they've put into this site. One very good reason why we chose to keep the BST closed is because we didn't want to add to the mod's workload. We can say it's their job and ask them to be more effective, but I think that's a poor response to people who have put in their fair share of time and effort to help us out. We are considering getting more mods on board to help out for this reason as well.

No one has criticized the performance of mods (well, I did in a thread last night, but they did let it get out of control...). I did and will continue to stand by my words that moderating the BST and preventing thread-crapping or whatever else an open BST would foster, is what mods are expected to do.


On that note though, I'm surprised at WB's comments on the mods since you were also selected, but I guess you weren't interested since you never responded.

Classy, EMS. Bring up a private interaction between TGN management and a member of TGN. WB has never mentioned it and now you forced him to give his personal reasons in an open forum. I think I've proven my point about not being able to submit a survey anonymously. Nice.


For everyone who has filled up the survey, thanks for contributing constructively.

I'm going to take your response here as being sarcastic and directed at those who have voiced opinions in this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong.

A thread started by TGN management titled "The Official Feedback/Comments Thread!" is brought out of the depths and because some may not have used your survey, but rather this thread, is not considered constructive?? Again, nice...

I've got nothing against you or any of the members/management of TGN. Everyone just takes everything so personally and they get all bent out of shape, it's amazing...

[golferboy]

Please dont leave......who would I buy and sell clubs with???:( I don't know about most of you, but an active B/S/T is the main reason I frequent golf forums.

TGN's neutered B/S/T is certainly pushing me towards other forums.

[skt07]

Please dont leave......who would I buy and sell clubs with???:(

All those other people who use the B/S/T on a regular basis!

Oh wait. Recently no one has been using the B/S/T on a regular basis.

Maybe because the B/S/T is locked up.

Man, we should really discuss that issue! :D

EDIT:
Hey, that was my 250th post and I am now a Scratch Golfer! Woohoo! Maybe it shouldn't have been so sacarstic...

[Grass Roots Tour]

Westbeach!

Well said as usual, you have been a class act since the moment I joined this forum, undoubtedly there is a lack of consistency with the way this board is run, and how the rules apply, hence my lack of sponsorship, when a moderator admits to being paid to doing a "review" I am disgusted.

A review is commonly done by an unbiased individual, a review by a paid individual is considered a paid advertisement.

Good luck to the owners of this forum, I too wish you well in the months to come.

Paul



WOW!!! What good is a paid advertisment ????

I already held reviews with a huge grain of salt just because I like things in a golf course that others don't consider important and vise versa. This news just makes their review not worth reading at all.

I think my reviews are unbiased and I know I'm not getting paid. If anyone wants the straight goods about a course I've been to I'd be happy to share my feelings.

[jayda]

Please dont leave......who would I buy and sell clubs with???:(

go to the Ottawa forum :shhh: I see lots of familiar names there :hush: :D

BTW, I filled out the survey then the pop up stopped. AND OF COURSE I VOTE TO OPEN BST! :p

[golferboy]

And you can post to the BST threads.....revolutionary!!!!go to the Ottawa forum :shhh: I see lots of familiar names there :hush: :D

BTW, I filled out the survey then the pop up stopped. AND OF COURSE I VOTE TO OPEN BST! :p

[Ems]

Ems, take a look at any of the threads that have been started with respect to BST - the majority of those that have posted are pro-opening of the forums. Among those are people such as golferboy that are amongst the largest users of that forum (witness number of transactions done). If they have a problem with it and they are the ones who use it most, it seems quite reasonable to at least offer some sort of compromise. Doing it all behind closed doors amongst yourselves merely comes across as inaction.

Just because I mentioned majority, does not mean that's the only reason - tons of reasons were put forth from a variety of members - it just appeared to fall on deaf ears. The mods are the only ones to come out and then it's an issue of work, etc. Paul (golf nut) had probably the best solution out there - create another BST open to posts and let users choose.

Also, I'm one of the few that cares little about going against what management or mods stand for. I have never been worried about what others think of me. That can be a reason why others may remain silent. I'm sure you all have your mod forum full of my name over the last little while.



As for the survey, I never complete surveys that can't be submitted anonymously. It's a poor system that encourages people to vote the popular vote for fear of repurcussion. The TGN survey is certainly not something I worry about you or any other person seeing my answers to, but it's on principle that I don't complete them. I don't partake in the 3 or 4 phone calls that I get from Cisco partners, Bell partners, etc, at the office due to my position there.

Another problem with surveys is that they can be constructed in such a way to "direct" the answers, quite often towards the goal of the survey's creator. Not saying this is true with TGN's survey, but again it's a reason I don't participate in them.

Finally, I hate pop-ups.


No one has criticized the performance of mods (well, I did in a thread last night, but they did let it get out of control...). I did and will continue to stand by my words that moderating the BST and preventing thread-crapping or whatever else an open BST would foster, is what mods are expected to do.



Classy, EMS. Bring up a private interaction between TGN management and a member of TGN. WB has never mentioned it and now you forced him to give his personal reasons in an open forum. I think I've proven my point about not being able to submit a survey anonymously. Nice.



I'm going to take your response here as being sarcastic and directed at those who have voiced opinions in this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong.

A thread started by TGN management titled "The Official Feedback/Comments Thread!" is brought out of the depths and because some may not have used your survey, but rather this thread, is not considered constructive?? Again, nice...

I've got nothing against you or any of the members/management of TGN. Everyone just takes everything so personally and they get all bent out of shape, it's amazing...

Hi Akrus, sorry if my post offended you. I thought this thread had a lot of comments on how mgmt does not care and wanted to clarify our position, I don't think I wrote anything that sounded like I was bent out of shape and I basically tried to keep to the facts.

Your points about why the BST should be open are very legitimate, and I agree with them. I wanted to give some visibility as to why the BST has remained closed. You don't want these discussions to remain behind closed doors, so I share them with you, but it seems you have interpreted it as me taking these comments personally.

You're entitled to not complete the survey, but the survey is what I am using as an argument for opening up the BST with the rest of the board.

Just because I'm thanking people who has been filling up the survey does not mean I think this thread or any other threads giving feedback is crap. I think people should voice their preferences on the forum, that's how we would know if things need to change. The survey provides a means to track and quantify people's opinions and makes it easier to justify making changes.

Finally, I'm really surprised that my comment to WB is considered not classy! :eek: I don't view asking people to be mods a secret, and I didn't think there was anything wrong with WB for not responding (but now I know he did respond). I just truly thought he wasn't interested, no offence taken. I hope WB isn't offended that I brought it up, my point was, we had selected him as well so I'm surprised he didn't think we selected the right people. It actually made me think maybe he never saw our request to him to become a mod. WB, if you are offended, I'm truly sorry, I didn't mean to be attacking you with that statement!

[golf nut]

EMS,

I wrote a response to the original PM TGN management sent in the summer/fall but after writing a lengthy reply and having click send and with the windows flag waving forever, I thought it had gone through. Since I didn't keep copies of my PM in my sent box (considering PM's add up fast to the 50 limit), I would've never known if it went through or not. I remember this like it was yesterday because I often wondered if the PM was received. I sincerely apologize if TGN management felt I didn't take the time to respond to such an honorable request.

Regardless, I'll restate why I turned down the offer. Most importantly, I did not agree with the moderator selection(s) which TGN already had in place during that time. I did not agree with how "the enforcer(s) of the rules" continually broke the rules and TGN management never did anything about it. Furthermore, I disagree with one particular moderator selection who campaigned to ban members because of historical personal dealings. My personal belief was so strong on this issue that I refuse to be in any way associated with being a moderator and being classed the same as those I feel as an "inappropriate moderator selection". Thanks but no thanks.

With that said, I appreciate very much the forum TGN management created as a medium for golfers. I'm sure a lot of time and effort is put into this board and wish you guys/girls the best for this coming season.

Westbeach!

Well said as usual, you have been a class act since the moment I joined this forum, undoubtedly there is a lack of consistency with the way this board is run, and how the rules apply, hence my lack of sponsorship, when a moderator admits to being paid to doing a "review" I am disgusted.

A review is commonly done by an unbiased individual, a review by a paid individual is considered a paid advertisement.

Good luck to the owners of this forum, I too wish you well in the months to come.

Paul

[The Troll]

I have no opinion on these matters whatsoever.

I joined TGN because I love golf....since I joined this board I've been amazed by the level of hostility that flares up often....it would be nice if all parties remembered why we're here. :(

[westbeach]

I hope WB isn't offended that I brought it up, my point was, we had selected him as well so I'm surprised he didn't think we selected the right people. It actually made me think maybe he never saw our request to him to become a mod. WB, if you are offended, I'm truly sorry, I didn't mean to be attacking you with that statement!

No offense taken and there's no need to apologize. I know the point I wanted to make and I know the point you're trying to make on behalf of TGN. My POV is that yes, I was requested to be a moderator but I declined because I didn't want to be classed as the same as some of the other individual(s) your team had previously selected. So yes, by default of your request, I automatically was classed as the same by virtue of your selection which is one major reason I rejected the request.

One thing I will say, the last batch of moderator selection has been top notch. I highly doubt they have enemies, engage in personal attacks or have any shady dealings with sponsors.

[el tigre]

Westbeach!

Well said as usual, you have been a class act since the moment I joined this forum, undoubtedly there is a lack of consistency with the way this board is run, and how the rules apply, hence my lack of sponsorship, when a moderator admits to being paid to doing a "review" I am disgusted. You continue to make this accusation without any proof or substantiation, and I could not find such an admission by a moderator anywhere on TGN. Could you please direct me to this thread/post?

[golf nut]

True you will not find it in a thread, neither will you find any of the Moderators saying that the Pope is Catholic, however trust me he is.

Paul

If there is no objection to posting PM's then I will be more than happy to do so.

[Clevelandfan]

You continue to make this accusation without any proof or substantiation, and I could not find such an admission by a moderator anywhere on TGN. Could you please direct me to this thread/post?

More for Westbeach, as I know absolutely no one personally except Ontario whom I play with at BOT. I don't have an issue with someone endorsing a product or giving a favourable review given that they were given sponsorship or something similar as long as they declare it up front. Having said that Westbeach if you know of instances where mods have not been forthcoming, I would be offended.

[Ems]

I'm positive none of our mods have shady dealings with our sponsors. They openly support our sponsors which we appreciate.

There was an incident where one sponsor received plugs from our moderator because he helped bring him onto this board. The intention was not to be shady so I hope everyone would lesson the seriousness of using this word :hush:

The board does recognise that there was a conflict of interest with our mods favouring one sponsor over another so we have requested that to stop, which it has, so can we please move on from this topic. The concern has been raised, heard and addressed.

[westbeach]

More for Westbeach, as I know absolutely no one personally except Ontario whom I play with at BOT. I don't have an issue with someone endorsing a product or giving a favourable review given that they were given sponsorship or something similar as long as they declare it up front. Having said that Westbeach if you know of instances where mods have not been forthcoming, I would be offended.

Just to make it clear, I'm not the one El Tigre is referencing. I'm sure Golf Nut has the inside scoop on this which I have no knowledge of.

Golf Nut, seeing how a moderator posted a PM with no self objection in this post, http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/showpost.php?p=81961&postcount=19, I don't think there will be any objection with you posting your PM's. (as long as you feel comfortable about it of course)

[akrus]

Finally, I'm really surprised that my comment to WB is considered not classy! :eek: I don't view asking people to be mods a secret, and I didn't think there was anything wrong with WB for not responding (but now I know he did respond). I just truly thought he wasn't interested, no offence taken. I hope WB isn't offended that I brought it up, my point was, we had selected him as well so I'm surprised he didn't think we selected the right people. It actually made me think maybe he never saw our request to him to become a mod. WB, if you are offended, I'm truly sorry, I didn't mean to be attacking you with that statement!

I'll only comment on one issue here as I'm pretty much sick of the entire situation:

As management chose to contact WB via PM to ask whether he'd like to be a mod means that it is a private matter. The entire existence of the PM system is strictly there to keep messages from the public. Your decision to bring it up in this thread and essentially call WB out is extremely poor judgment in my eyes. I'm stunned that you would think otherwise.

[Ems]

The decision has been made! TGN will open up the BST to allow posts with replies.

We've heard both sides of the argument and both had valid points. Our decision is based on the number of people who requested this change, and because we have support from the mods to help keep the BST a fair place to do business.

The change will happen in a day or so and the rules would be adjusted accordingly. Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions!

[golf nut]

There was an incident where one sponsor received plugs from our moderator because he helped bring him onto this board. The intention was not to be shady so I hope everyone would lesson the seriousness of using this word :hush:

The board does recognise that there was a conflict of interest with our mods favouring one sponsor over another so we have requested that to stop, which it has, so can we please move on from this topic. The concern has been raised, heard and addressed.
Thank you Ems for seeing the reason for my concerns and another reason for me not to sponsor this board.

Paul

[TourIQ]

The decision has been made! TGN will open up the BST to allow posts with replies.
Hi Ems

Nice move on the part of TGN and the moderators to open up the BST. Now let me ask this question ...
'How secure are private pm's?'. Can a site owner or moderator go into an account and read the private pm's of an individual member?

As most on here know, I normally tell people to use private email when they want to chat with me privately. I also hate forum pm's due to the limited size of 50. Heck if this was the limit on my email it would crash after 2 days.

[FIGJAM_59]

'How secure are private pm's?'

Apparently it's OK to post them as ammo if you have a disagreement, as long as you are a mod.

Remind me not to use the PM system here.

[Rocknronny]

Apparently it's OK to post them as ammo if you have a disagreement, as long as you are a mod.

Remind me not to use the PM system here.And that the PM was sent to the Mod,not the Mod going in to someone elses PM box.
RR

[TourIQ]

And that the PM was sent to the Mod,not the Mod going in to someone elses PM box. RR
Hi RR

Not saying a Mod would want to go into an individual private pm box, but can they if they really wanted to?

I suspect if -Dan wanted his private pm posted for ALL to see, he would of done it himself. RR, for you to post it is DEFINITELY IN BAD TASTE. Remind me to never send YOU a private pm :eek:

Most know my position on forum pm's. I almost refuse to use them.

[Rocknronny]

Hi RR

Not saying a Mod would want to go into an individual private pm box, but can they if they really wanted to?

I suspect if -Dan wanted his private pm posted for ALL to see, he would of done it himself. RR, for you to post it is DEFINITELY IN BAD TASTE. Remind me to never send YOU a private pm :eek:

Most know my position on forum pm's. I almost refuse to use them.That PM was sent to me I chose to post it.
RR

[TourIQ]

Thanks for stating the obvious ...

[Mule56]

Hi RR

Not saying a Mod would want to go into an individual private pm box, but can they if they really wanted to?

I suspect if -Dan wanted his private pm posted for ALL to see, he would of done it himself. RR, for you to post it is DEFINITELY IN BAD TASTE. Remind me to never send YOU a private pm :eek:

Most know my position on forum pm's. I almost refuse to use them.

Tour IQ,
Mod's do not have access to the PM of individual members.
Mule
Mule

[TourIQ]

So now that I'm not a mod any more ... RR

RR, when did you STOP being a 'Mod'?
I thought you were still one :D

Tour IQ, Mod's do not have access to the PM of individual members. Mule
Hi Mule56

Thanks for the update on pm status with Mod's.
Can the owner(s) of the site read pm's?

[VBall]

Obviously if we really wanted to, we can change your password, log in as you, and read you pms. But we don't and will not do so. I don't know why this is even an issue as all forums operate the same way.

[akrus]

Hi Ems

Nice move on the part of TGN and the moderators to open up the BST. Now let me ask this question ...
'How secure are private pm's?'. Can a site owner or moderator go into an account and read the private pm's of an individual member?

As most on here know, I normally tell people to use private email when they want to chat with me privately. I also hate forum pm's due to the limited size of 50. Heck if this was the limit on my email it would crash after 2 days.

Harry, pm's are fairly secure (as secure as most anything else on the web, at least...) in that mods/admins don't have direct access to your pm's. They would need to login as you in order to read them, so keep your password secure (passwords are encrypted in the db - I don't believe that pm's are, but I'm not certain).

The fact that we login over an insecure method means that anyone on the network could sniff our passwords, but this is where we have to have 110% faith in our board admins.

Always use strong passwords and don't use the same password on an insecure login (without https://) as you would for confidential sites (ie: hope your TGN and bank passwords aren't the same)

Obviously if we really wanted to, we can change your password, log in as you, and read you pms. But we don't and will not do so. I don't know why this is even an issue as all forums operate the same way.

I believe part of the issue stems from the fact that 1) EMS aired out a PM between TGN and WB, in this thread - she didn't quote it word for word, but she did make it clear to everyone that Ted was offered a mod job - I know I wouldn't appreciate that, especially after declining the offer; and 2) RR's posting of the pm's between him and Golf Nut in this thread (which was deleted shortly after it went up). At least in that post, he had Paul's ok to post the PMs, so long as RR did so in entirety. If both parties agree to the posting, then I think that's fine, when one of the parties decides to do it without the permission of the other, that's just not right, IMO.

[Kilroy]

Actually it is possible for a forum admin to read PMs. All they need to do is install this hack http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=123166&highlight=read+personal+messages

I have no idea if this is happening or not but it is possible.

[Greywolf]

Hi Ems

Nice move on the part of TGN and the moderators to open up the BST. Now let me ask this question ...
'How secure are private pm's?'. Can a site owner or moderator go into an account and read the private pm's of an individual member?

As most on here know, I normally tell people to use private email when they want to chat with me privately. I also hate forum pm's due to the limited size of 50. Heck if this was the limit on my email it would crash after 2 days.

Harry, I am not sure where you are going with this but I can assure you that none of us (mods) can read your PMs or those of others. We are not the police, we are here to hopefully ensure the smooth operation of the forum. I resent your insinuation!

[akrus]

Harry, I am not sure where you are going with this but I can assure you that none of us (mods) can read your PMs or those of others. We are not the police, we are here to hopefully ensure the smooth operation of the forum. I resent your insinuation!

Ian, I don't think he was saying that anyone associated with TGN is reading pm's, I believe he was just asking a wise question.

I'll bet a lot of people don't know that forums like this have hidden forums in which mods/mgmnt talk about current forum happenings, or that every post's ip address is saved, for example.

You're the last guy I'd think that would get your hair up. I honestly didn't read anything into his post.

[Greywolf]

Ian, I don't think he was saying that anyone associated with TGN is reading pm's, I believe he was just asking a wise question.

I'll bet a lot of people don't know that forums like this have hidden forums in which mods/mgmnt talk about current forum happenings, or that every post's ip address is saved, for example.

You're the last guy I'd think that would get your hair up. I honestly didn't read anything into his post.

Hi Albert, the fact that he would post the question brings the integrity of the admin/mods into question, perhaps I am wrong. We could care less what people discuss in their PMs, we have other things to keep us busy.

[akrus]

Hi Albert, the fact that he would post the question brings the integrity of the admin/mods into question, perhaps I am wrong. We could care less what people discuss in their PMs, we have other things to keep us busy.

I hear ya', Ian. I just think that his curiosity was piqued once the discussion of posting PMs got started and that naturally led to the security of pms as a whole.

Remember, you and others that have been/are mods/admins do have an inside view as to how things operate on these forums. A regular Joe member does not neccessarily understand everything that is possible. I still stand by that he in no way was accusing anyone associated with TGN of reading PMs.

I think we're all just having a major case of the February blahs. Time, as I said in a previous post, for the golf season to start again.

[Greywolf]

I hear ya', Ian. I just think that his curiosity was piqued once the discussion of posting PMs got started and that naturally led to the security of pms as a whole.

Remember, you and others that have been/are mods/admins do have an inside view as to how things operate on these forums. A regular Joe member does not neccessarily understand everything that is possible. I still stand by that he in no way was accusing anyone associated with TGN of reading PMs.

I think we're all just having a major case of the February blahs. Time, as I said in a previous post, for the golf season to start again.

Perhaps you are right Albert, I definitely agree with this^^^, come on Spring. Having said that, there is a bunch of white garbage falling from the sky, like we need more!!:(

[akrus]

Perhaps you are right Albert, I definitely agree with this^^^, come on Spring. Having said that, there is a bunch of white garbage falling from the sky, like we need more!!:(

Yup, we have freezing rain/ice pellets and are expecting snow over the evening and into tomorrow. Makes me glad that I'm leaving for the south in a couple days. i'm not sure how much more I can take... Need to see the sun and hit something REALLY hard!

:D

I'll send pics!

[Greywolf]

Yup, we have freezing rain/ice pellets and are expecting snow over the evening and into tomorrow. Makes me glad that I'm leaving for the south in a couple days. i'm not sure how much more I can take... Need to see the sun and hit something REALLY hard!

:D

I'll send pics!

Have a great trip, hit something hard for me too:D

[Mok]

Actually it is possible for a forum admin to read PMs. All they need to do is install this hack http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=123166&highlight=read+personal+messages

I have no idea if this is happening or not but it is possible.
not happening here at TGN...

[TourIQ]

Harry, I am not sure where you are going with this but I can assure you that none of us (mods) can read your PMs or those of others. We are not the police, we are here to hopefully ensure the smooth operation of the forum. I resent your insinuation!
Hi Greywolf

I am not accusing any MOD of reading pm's. I am a member of many forums and have ALWAYS from day 1 hated to use forum pm when all members have email accounts. Since I am not an IT professional I do not know what can or can not be done with binary code. Furthermore, some 'sob's' like to throw stones, disrupt a great forum, then hide under secretecy.

I have never suspected a MOD at TGN reading a private message. I was merely asking if this was indeed possible.

PS - Albert was reading the intent of my question 'spot on' ...

[TehFlakes]

maybe i should start a poll and start a petition to bring back RR as mod...

[TourIQ]

or start a petition to leave him off as a Mod ...

[TehFlakes]

Nope. He was a good mod on this site Harry.



or start a petition to leave him off as a Mod ...

[Rocknronny]

Nope. He was a good mod on this site Harry.Wow I will take that as a complement.:eek:
RR

[golferboy]

Like an Oak tree?:D
Yup, we have freezing rain/ice pellets and are expecting snow over the evening and into tomorrow. Makes me glad that I'm leaving for the south in a couple days. i'm not sure how much more I can take... Need to see the sun and hit something REALLY hard!

:D

I'll send pics!

[akrus]

Like an Oak tree?:D

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of the shagbark hickory

:p


http://www.state.sc.us/forest/tidcom.htm#shag

[golferboy]

Man your good.....

Have a great trip.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of the sh