Forged Irons

[Focker Singh]

Anyone use forged irons out there? I heard they're more difficult to hit cause of low forgiveness and small sweet spot, but once you know how to use them, its like night and day. Farther shots, better trajectory and better shot shaping. Also, a lot more expensive than your casted irons. Can anyone give some feedback on their forged irons including the brand and make?

[Tintin]

Farther shots, better trajectory and better shot shaping. Also, a lot more expensive than your casted irons.

The only true statement is easier shot shaping. They will not go further if you are comparing apples vs apples i.e same loft. The trajectory will not change either. As a matter of fact the trajectory is improved with perimeter weighted irons as the head will twist less on off center impacts. There is nothing like the feel of a blade though when the ball is dead on the sweetpot.

[Focker Singh]

Are you sure Tintin? I heard you get more distance with forged irons and thats comparing apples to apples ie: 5 iron to 5iron. I once tried my friends forged Mizuno's a year ago, hit them wrong and you get a vibration up your arms, hit it right and boy, does that ball ever fly!! :help:

[Tintin]

I am sure. Mizunos are known to have stronger lofts than standard. In order for anybody to make an accurate comparison you'd have to have the following elements:
same loft, same shafts, same swing, same swing speed(i.e robot testing).
I've played with both and I did not see any difference in length. At one point I even had one set where the ball did not go as far as my cast irons.

[Tintin]

The following article should provide some valuable insight.
http://www.swingweight.com/ladies'_loft.htm

http://www.swingweight.com/sweetspots_and_cavities.htm


http://www.swingweight.com/oem_iron_specs.htm

[Focker Singh]

Good to know Tintin, thanks for the info. :D

[wigler]

I have played Hogan Apex blades for 5 years, and I likely will not go back to cast clubs.
The feel, the response, the look...you cant beat it.

You indeed were incorrect in stating more distance with forged. Probably not a lot of difference between cast and forged, but likely a difference between 5 iron and 5 iron. Most traditional forged clubs have more traditional lofts, which are a lot weaker than current lofts (again I said most).

You are correct, mis-hits can shoot up the arm. But this is good since it will make you want to hit the ball more solid. I hated hitting a poor shot, thin or not on the sweet spot, and it felt the same as a good hit.

I was actually quite surprised to find that the blades were not that much more difficult to hit than an oversize cast club.

But let me tell you, when you hit it solid and on the sweet spot, just like butter. A really good feeling.

wigler

[Milestones]

when I asked one of the CGPA one that issue, he said that forge irons don't really give more distance... *shrug*

[Shadow]

Anyone use forged irons out there? I heard they're more difficult to hit cause of low forgiveness and small sweet spot, but once you know how to use them, its like night and day. Farther shots, better trajectory and better shot shaping. Also, a lot more expensive than your casted irons. Can anyone give some feedback on their forged irons including the brand and make?

Many golfers assume that if the irons are forged, that they are blades. No so, as you can get beautiful forged cavity back irons that offer the same game improvement qualities as a cast club with a higher sticker price, of course. Some companies make clubs whose cavity gets progressively larger as you move to the longer irons.

The feel is different with forged clubs, and a lot sweeter, although some will argue that it is the sound of a well hit shot that gives them better feel. Who knows? The forged blades may twist a little more if hit off the toe, causing the overall distance to go down a little, but it's only a little. Distance will diminish also if a cavity is hit off the toe. Where cavities help the most is if you hit the ball near the heel end of the face. If a little more of the clubs weight is spread out towards the toe end, then a heel hit will cause the toe to turn over a little, straightening out the shot.

Anoither aspect of a forged club is the ease at which the lofts and lies can be adjusted. If you tend to hit the ball too high or too low, just have the lofts changed. Just as easily, the lies can be changed. I have altered some forged lofts and lies by as much as 5 degrees, without breaking. Try that with a cast club and it will snap around the 3 degree mark.

I play the Wishon 550C cavities, 4,5,6 7, and the 550M blades, 8,9, PW, AW, SW, with SK Fiber Tour Trac 80 graphite shafts. Clubs are all MOI matched, instead of swingweight matched.

If you want to see some beautiful forged heads check out these two sites.
http://www.wishongolf.com/designs/ironheads/550c.html
http://www.wishongolf.com/designs/ironheads/550m.html
http://www.kzgolf.com/forgedirons.html

[Kona Golf]

I use both a Forged set and a Cast set, since I have that luxury.

The forged set are Raven Cavity Backs which are a mid size and relatively forgiving iron head. The feel on contact is "Soft" but performance is awesome. They are mounted on Mercury Savage Stepless Steel Shafts, Spined, FM, SW and Flo!

The Cast set are a set of Pro Combo Style (3 sets in one) again from Raven. Theses are mounted on Mercury Pro Kevlars and again, Spined, FM, Flo and SW. These have a harder feel on contact but the Kevlar Shaft absorbs and makes up the "harshness" (relative to the forged set).

I hit both sets equally and perhaps the cast set may be a little longer! The cast set are easier to maintain than the forged set. Since they are made to exactly the same specs (except length, graphite 1/2" longer) they swing so close that I can hardly tell the difference.

The point is that if they are built properly, and components matched, you can get what you want out of any quality set of equipment. Quality, not name being the key!:)

Jim

[Bogeybog]

I use both a Forged set and a Cast set, since I have that luxury.

The forged set are Raven Cavity Backs which are a mid size and relatively forgiving iron head. The feel on contact is "Soft" but performance is awesome. They are mounted on Mercury Savage Stepless Steel Shafts, Spined, FM, SW and Flo!

The Cast set are a set of Pro Combo Style (3 sets in one) again from Raven. Theses are mounted on Mercury Pro Kevlars and again, Spined, FM, Flo and SW. These have a harder feel on contact but the Kevlar Shaft absorbs and makes up the "harshness" (relative to the forged set).

I hit both sets equally and perhaps the cast set may be a little longer! The cast set are easier to maintain than the forged set. Since they are made to exactly the same specs (except length, graphite 1/2" longer) they swing so close that I can hardly tell the difference.

The point is that if they are built properly, and components matched, you can get what you want out of any quality set of equipment. Quality, not name being the key!:)

JimWelcome Jim. Nice to see another SA swinger (and a clubmaker to boot!). :clap:

[Tintin]

Jim[/QUOTE]
Don't forget your signature Jim. www.konagolfsales.com (http://www.konagolfsales.com) and thanks for the fast,great,courteous service.
AC.

[Kona Golf]

Thanks TinTin,

Appreciate the plug for Kona Golf Sales, but really appreciate your support!

BTW: That NF2 has been very useful and time saving with the Precision Pro Tapers!

[Shadow]

Thanks TinTin,

Appreciate the plug for Kona Golf Sales, but really appreciate your support!

BTW: That NF2 has been very useful and time saving with the Precision Pro Tapers!
Ironically, I contacted you today about your line of Mercury shafts after exchanging some info from "tintin" above and not only do you suddenly appear on this forum, but you are an SA golfer, as well.
Great stuff. Lyle

[Kona Golf]

Hi Lyle,

I repaired the Dealer Info Form today. Thanks for the heads up!

Did you get the price list okay?

[Andru]

Anyone use forged irons out there? I heard they're more difficult to hit cause of low forgiveness and small sweet spot, but once you know how to use them, its like night and day. Farther shots, better trajectory and better shot shaping. Also, a lot more expensive than your casted irons. Can anyone give some feedback on their forged irons including the brand and make?
You mean muscleback irons right? Because you can get forged cavity backs that are very forgiving.

[Focker Singh]

You mean muscleback irons right? Because you can get forged cavity backs that are very forgiving.
Yep, thats what I meant. Thanks for clarifying.

[Tintin]

Thanks TinTin,

Appreciate the plug for Kona Golf Sales, but really appreciate your support!

BTW: That NF2 has been very useful and time saving with the Precision Pro Tapers!
The precision Pro Tapers are great shafts for the price. When I measured them in the frequency meter they all had the same butt frequency except for 2 that were within+-2cpms. A bit stiffer(butt frequency) though than the 298 cpms Savage but nowadays with shaft profiling that does not mean much.Right Shadow?:)

[Andru]

Yep, thats what I meant. Thanks for clarifying.
If you're really torn, the best thing to do is get the combo sets out now. It's nice to have shot control with your short irons and the forgiveness of a cavity for your long irons.

[Shadow]

Hi Lyle,
I repaired the Dealer Info Form today. Thanks for the heads up!
Did you get the price list okay?

Yes, I did, Jim. Thanks. I will be in touch soon.

tintin: No, I don't think a 2 cpm difference will be noticeable by many golfers.

[tk416]

Focker,

I made the switch last year from an older set of Top Flite tours to a set of the Nike Forged Blades (muscleback) and haven't looked back. The other posters are correct in saying that no you do not get any extra distance, although ball flight has been slightly improved for me.

Biggest improvement I've noticed is inside of 150yds. I'll hit the green 80-90% of the time now as compared to 50-60% with my older clubs. Honestly, balls are tracking to the green.

Mi****s are felt in the hands and arms however the good ones really are like sliced butter.

I found the transition fairly painless, and the clubs are really easy to hit. If you have a chance I would highly suggest you trying to demo a set of the Nike Blades. Provided you have a fairly consistent swing, you'll be greatly rewarded. They're going to be staying in my bag for awhile.
I know alot of you will flame Nike and their golf products, but the forged blades are awesome. Go google some reviews to find more info.

Plus, Tiger and Justin both won with essentially the same irons this year.

TK

[Focker Singh]

Focker,

I made the switch last year from an older set of Top Flite tours to a set of the Nike Forged Blades (muscleback) and haven't looked back. The other posters are correct in saying that no you do not get any extra distance, although ball flight has been slightly improved for me.

Biggest improvement I've noticed is inside of 150yds. I'll hit the green 80-90% of the time now as compared to 50-60% with my older clubs. Honestly, balls are tracking to the green.

Mi****s are felt in the hands and arms however the good ones really are like sliced butter.

I found the transition fairly painless, and the clubs are really easy to hit. If you have a chance I would highly suggest you trying to demo a set of the Nike Blades. Provided you have a fairly consistent swing, you'll be greatly rewarded. They're going to be staying in my bag for awhile.
I know alot of you will flame Nike and their golf products, but the forged blades are awesome. Go google some reviews to find more info.

Plus, Tiger and Justin both won with essentially the same irons this year.

TK
Interesting tk416. Makes me wonder what my next set of clubs should be. I really like the Muzuno MX 23's, they feel amazing! Though not truly forged, they are blades, I think? :confused: Just can't afford them at the moment. I'll probably go to Golf Town and hit them.

[laxgolf]

Interesting tk416. Makes me wonder what my next set of clubs should be. I really like the Muzuno MX 23's, they feel amazing! Though not truly forged, they are blades, I think? :confused: Just can't afford them at the moment. I'll probably go to Golf Town and hit them.
The MX23's are definitely forged and definitely not blades. Are you thinking of the MP32's?

[laxgolf]

Focker,


Mi****s are felt in the hands and arms however the good ones really are like sliced butter.

TKDoes anyone else find it funny the sentence by Focker has been edited becasue of the sequence of letters? :rofl: :nono: :rofl:

M...I...S...H...I...T...S

I'm bored.:help:

[Focker Singh]

The MX23's are definitely forged and definitely not blades. Are you thinking of the MP32's?
Thanks, my mistake.

[SW20 MR2]

I have a set of the MX-23's. When you flush one, it feels like butter. They are fairly forgiving as well. The only thing I hate about them is that they get dinged and scratched very easily even when walking or driving the cart.

[tk416]

I have a set of the MX-23's. When you flush one, it feels like butter. They are fairly forgiving as well. The only thing I hate about them is that they get dinged and scratched very easily even when walking or driving the cart.
I know what you mean...

Contemplated iron covers but they look stupid and are a pain in the ***...

[Mule56]

I know what you mean...

Contemplated iron covers but they look stupid and are a pain in the ***...Not really. I have them and they do not slow me nor do they look stupid. There is not one ding in a shaft or a club head.
Mule

[tk416]

Not really. I have them and they do not slow me nor do they look stupid. There is not one ding in a shaft or a club head.
Mule
Sorry should have rephrased that... In my opinion, I don't like the looks of them, as I did actually buy a set, but just found it to be a pain on the course.

[Whoa Nelly]

I was wondering... do any of you feel the difference between the Mizunos and Titleist irons? I personally find the Mizuno "softer" than the Titleists. Even the toe hits feel better off the Mizuno's... any comments?

[BdaGolfer]

I found the Mizuno's to feel softer, but I much prefer the crisp feel of my 690MB's. Not as crisp (i.e. harsh) as Hogan Apex blades, but a clean, precise, I-know-where-I-hit-that-one feel from them. Also, they are a lot more playable than the 690CB's I had before, for some reason. Must be my swing :D

Alan


I was wondering... do any of you feel the difference between the Mizunos and Titleist irons? I personally find the Mizuno "softer" than the Titleists. Even the toe hits feel better off the Mizuno's... any comments?

[Focker Singh]

I've never hit Titleist irons but I have hit the Mizuno X15's and MX23's...they're both sweet and soft. Love the trajectory I get with them and you're right, when you hit them right, it feels like butter!!

[laxgolf]

I was wondering... do any of you feel the difference between the Mizunos and Titleist irons? I personally find the Mizuno "softer" than the Titleists. Even the toe hits feel better off the Mizuno's... any comments?
When iron shopping last summer, I extensively tested (with the same ball) the Titleist 690cb's, 704's, Nike Pro Combo's and Mizuno MP30's. I can say without question that the Mizuno's have a softer feel to them than either of the Titleist's or Nike's. That's not to say that any of them are bad irons. That was just my impression. The ball seemed to 'squish' more upon impact, if that makes any sense. I found the Mizuno's to have better feedback, but feel is very subjective.

[Whoa Nelly]

When iron shopping last summer, I extensively tested (with the same ball) the Titleist 690cb's, 704's, Nike Pro Combo's and Mizuno MP30's. I can say without question that the Mizuno's have a softer feel to them than either of the Titleist's or Nike's. That's not to say that any of them are bad irons. That was just my impression. The ball seemed to 'squish' more upon impact, if that makes any sense. I found the Mizuno's to have better feedback, but feel is very subjective.
I think 'squish' is the right word! :D

[Whoa Nelly]

when I asked one of the CGPA one that issue, he said that forge irons don't really give more distance... *shrug*
You're typically going to get a lower ball flight with most muscle backed irons which would cause the ball the roll a bit more than a typical cavity back. As we all know, the majority of the weighting is on the sole of the iron (cavities), causing the ball to get up in the air quicker which would equal less roll... the increase in distance with a blade would only be marginal... no?

[el tigre]

You're typically going to get a lower ball flight with most muscle backed irons which would cause the ball the roll a bit more than a typical cavity back. As we all know, the majority of the weighting is on the sole of the iron (cavities), causing the ball to get up in the air quicker which would equal less roll... the increase in distance with a blade would only be marginal... no?You seem to be confusing forged vs. cast and blade/muscle-back vs cavity-back. Not all muscle-backs are forged and not all cavity-backs are cast.

You are correct that blades and muscle-backs typically give you a lower ball flight and therefore more distance over cavity-backs for the same lofts. Many cavity-back sets make up for this with stronger lofts in the short irons.

However, forged vs cast clubs in the same design should be the same, all else being equal.

[el tigre]

When iron shopping last summer, I extensively tested (with the same ball) the Titleist 690cb's, 704's, Nike Pro Combo's and Mizuno MP30's. I can say without question that the Mizuno's have a softer feel to them than either of the Titleist's or Nike's. That's not to say that any of them are bad irons. That was just my impression. The ball seemed to 'squish' more upon impact, if that makes any sense. I found the Mizuno's to have better feedback, but feel is very subjective.FYI, there is an interesting thread on the GEA forum called "The Myth of Feel" that basically states humans cannot tell the difference between forged vs cast iron heads (let alone different kinds of forged irons) BASED ON OUR TACTILE SENSES IN OUR HANDS ONLY. Every scientific test that has been done on this seems to point to the fact that the only difference that we CAN tell between forged vs cast is in the sound - which the brain then "interprets" as softer or harder. Not even tour pros could tell the difference between forged vs cast when wearing ear plugs.

The findings also cast doubt on whether humans could really tell a softer ball off an iron head (woods and driver are another story), if the sound was the same. Also, many people equate "whiter=harder" when it comes to golf balls, so our brains may be tricking us even before we tee it up.

Where we can REALLY feel the difference in our hands is with different golf shafts. Shaft characteristics have a big impact on "feel" - so if the "feel" of different clubs in very important to you then you really need to look at the shafts you're testing them with rather than the clubhead material.

Of course, if you really like the sound a forged club makes better than cast irons and in that sense it "feels" better to you - then hey, go with that. It's all part of the total experience, right? Anyway, it was an interesting GEA discussion I thought you might be interested in.

[Whoa Nelly]

You seem to be confusing forged vs. cast and blade/muscle-back vs cavity-back. Not all muscle-backs are forged and not all cavity-backs are cast.

Hi el tigre,

I purposely excluded the terms 'forged' and 'cast' from my post specifcally for this reason.

Cheers,

[laxgolf]

FYI, there is an interesting thread on the GEA forum called "The Myth of Feel" that basically states humans cannot tell the difference between forged vs cast iron heads (let alone different kinds of forged irons) BASED ON OUR TACTILE SENSES IN OUR HANDS ONLY. Every scientific test that has been done on this seems to point to the fact that the only difference that we CAN tell between forged vs cast is in the sound - which the brain then "interprets" as softer or harder. Not even tour pros could tell the difference between forged vs cast when wearing ear plugs.

The findings also cast doubt on whether humans could really tell a softer ball off an iron head (woods and driver are another story), if the sound was the same. Also, many people equate "whiter=harder" when it comes to golf balls, so our brains may be tricking us even before we tee it up.

Where we can REALLY feel the difference in our hands is with different golf shafts. Shaft characteristics have a big impact on "feel" - so if the "feel" of different clubs in very important to you then you really need to look at the shafts you're testing them with rather than the clubhead material.

Of course, if you really like the sound a forged club makes better than cast irons and in that sense it "feels" better to you - then hey, go with that. It's all part of the total experience, right? Anyway, it was an interesting GEA discussion I thought you might be interested in.
For what it's worth, I made sure that all the irons had the same shafts in them (R300) and I used the same ball throughout. I wanted to compare apples to apples. Each club felt different on impact and the Mizuno's felt the softest of them all.

[malarky]

Enough said by everyone already, but I'll just add this ...

Last summer, my buddy picked up a set of Ping G2's ... they are cast, but the feel at impact for me was indistinguishable from my MP-30 (a forged half-cavity). My last two sets have been Mizuno forged.

It was a bit spooky, because on top of the buttery feel, the trajectory and distance were bang on with these Pings as well. A bit hard to work the ball, and the offset takes some visual adjustment, but other than that, I'd say it's one cast set that is very close in providing forged-like feel and feedback. I'm sure, as a Ping, they're forgiving as heck to boot.

The G2's are definitely worth a look, if you're in the market and don't care if its cast/forged.

[freddie]

Many golfers assume that if the irons are forged, that they are blades. No so, as you can get beautiful forged cavity back irons that offer the same game improvement qualities as a cast club with a higher sticker price, of course. Some companies make clubs whose cavity gets progressively larger as you move to the longer irons.

I play the Wishon 550C cavities, 4,5,6 7, and the 550M blades, 8,9, PW, AW, SW, with SK Fiber Tour Trac 80 graphite shafts. Clubs are all MOI matched, instead of swingweight matched.

If you want to see some beautiful forged heads check out these two sites.
http://www.wishongolf.com/designs/ironheads/550c.html
http://www.wishongolf.com/designs/ironheads/550m.html
http://www.kzgolf.com/forgedirons.html
I agree with you about these clubs. The ones you linked to (Wishon) are very very similar to MacGregor 1025 C forged irons in configuration which I play.
These are quite forgiving irons but pure when hit anywhere near the sweetspot which is pretty large.
These clubs are quite cheap on ebay now as they are discontinued. Wel worth trying out. They are stil selling at Golf Town for about $800 but can be had for far less on the web.

[gizmo321]

Forged irons...best reasonable comparison...like a hot knife through butter :D

I have a beautiful set of Bridgestone Tourstage V3000 irons for sale at the
Buy/Sell/Trade forum if any of you are interested :)

[Grass Roots Tour]

Forged muscle back irons are the club of choice for all great players. Care to join them?

[rgk5]

I am sure. Mizunos are known to have stronger lofts than standard. In order for anybody to make an accurate comparison you'd have to have the following elements:
same loft, same shafts, same swing, same swing speed(i.e robot testing).
I've played with both and I did not see any difference in length. At one point I even had one set where the ball did not go as far as my cast irons.

Mizuno blades are quite "normal" in loft with the PW being 48* in the MP-33, 32 30 etc.

[Greywolf]

Mizuno blades are quite "normal" in loft with the PW being 48* in the MP-33, 32 30 etc.
I agree, there are many irons sets available these days which have PW lofts of 45° or 46°. PW with 48° is similar to lofts of many years ago.

[Grass Roots Tour]

Thats one of the best things about forged irons... you can make your set whatever lofts you want. You can always make a forged set fit you so prefitting isn't necessary as it is quite an easy thing to just have them bent upright or flat.
The only expensive after-purchase fitting change is a reshaft.