PDA

View Full Version : When to move to Blades?


Pages : [1] 2

Likes The Links
Mar 9, 2009, 07:09 PM
Maybe I'm a little ahead of myself here but I am curious. I believe at the end of last summer my handicap was set at 27 or 28. This will be my second season playing this year and I plan to take more lessons and practice more. I believe I understand the fundamentals of the swing a lot more from my winter reading and research. I'm putting plenty of pressure on myself to lower that handicap and become much more consistent. My question is at what point or what handicap should one move to Blades from Game Improvement clubs? Also, what is the main benefit of blades? I'm assuming it they have the ability to work the ball more.

I know some of these questions must be silly to some of you but I'm kinda learning everything as I go here. Damn Addictive Game:rolleyes:

4Joshua
Mar 9, 2009, 07:18 PM
My honest opinion is never. "Players" cavity back irons are just as workable as blades, but a whole lot more fogiving. A club like Taylor Made's new Tour Preferred Iron is the same head size(heel to toe) as their TP MB blades, but have a cavity back to make them easier to hit. I've played them for half a season since switching from the MB's and havn't lost any control or workablilty. All I've gained is forgivness on mishits. There are lots of players clubs out there like the AP2's from Titleist, the new Mizuno's, Callaway X-Forged, and so on. Blades are slowly going away, even Sergio has switched.

Leftygolfer30
Mar 9, 2009, 07:24 PM
You can find a lot of the varying opinions here on blades vs. GI irons by doing a search. The topic has been discussed at great lengths.

Likes The Links
Mar 9, 2009, 07:30 PM
My mistake. I should have said when is the time to switch to a players iron I guess. I was ignorant of the difference between the two. I'm assuming that there is a distinct difference between them and my game improvement irons. I've actually been doing research and, when the time comes, am impressed with Mizuno. However my main question was what would ones handicap or skill level get to before on makes the switch?

Bwadd
Mar 9, 2009, 07:42 PM
I agree..... never!

With muscle back irons so advanced there really is no reason to switch to a blade in my opinion. I see players on PGA Tour have a hard time hitting blades, so we definately have no reason to... LOL :D

sharkhark
Mar 9, 2009, 07:45 PM
You added that you meant a players type. I would strongly suggest at your high handicap level that you try and enjoy the game until you have thru practice and lessons, a somewhat consistent swing.
Go game improvement until you are regularly under 100. Once that 90's threshold you could break looks possible, then consider a more player like style.
A game improvement in my opinion will keep you having fun and give some forgiveness until then. Even with GI irons you still can tell a bad from a good swing. good luck.

WILL
Mar 9, 2009, 07:51 PM
Let me be the first to strongly disagree cause ... why not?

I don't believe in "forgiveness" unless we're talking low profile, hugely bottom weighted clubs designed to get the ball airborn. Shallow cavity backs are no more forgiving than muscle backs.

Get a $100 set of blades and learn what solid strikes feel like and enjoy the feedback of off centre hits. You'll learn quick.

bob_33
Mar 9, 2009, 07:55 PM
Let me be the first to strongly disagree cause ... why not?

I don't believe in "forgiveness" unless we're talking low profile, hugely bottom weighted clubs designed to get the ball airborn. Shallow cavity backs are no more forgiving than muscle backs.

Get a $100 set of blades and learn what solid strikes feel like and enjoy the feedback of off centre hits. You'll learn quick.

plus, hitting blades really did improve my ballstriking immensely over this winter

Likes The Links
Mar 9, 2009, 08:01 PM
You added that you meant a players type. I would strongly suggest at your high handicap level that you try and enjoy the game until you have thru practice and lessons, a somewhat consistent swing.
Go game improvement until you are regularly under 100. Once that 90's threshold you could break looks possible, then consider a more player like style.
A game improvement in my opinion will keep you having fun and give some forgiveness until then. Even with GI irons you still can tell a bad from a good swing. good luck.

Thanks good information. I started to break 100 regularly by the end of last season. I'm hoping to be able to break 90 fairly often by mid summer.

Let me be the first to strongly disagree cause ... why not?

I don't believe in "forgiveness" unless we're talking low profile, hugely bottom weighted clubs designed to get the ball airborn. Shallow cavity backs are no more forgiving than muscle backs.

Get a $100 set of blades and learn what solid strikes feel like and enjoy the feedback of off centre hits. You'll learn quick.

Either way though, with any type of player irons, do you seem to feel the feed back from the club will be better than hitting game improvement at this stage of skill level.

WILL
Mar 9, 2009, 08:17 PM
I feel the feedback will be benefitial and more real. I've always believed you deserve what you get in golf. If your swing produces a sh*t shot, you deserve a sh*t shot. Why would you ever want a club to coddle a crappy move? So you can maintain that crappy move forever?

If you want to learn to play well, get the blades. If you want to hang with your friends and enjoy the sun, play shovels and have some fun.

Just my .02

Richard
Mar 9, 2009, 08:21 PM
Move when you want to

Never sell your old clubs until you are happy with the new ones!

setter02
Mar 9, 2009, 09:07 PM
plus, hitting blades really did improve my ballstriking immensely over this winter

But you weren't a 25+ handicap. I wouldn't get all giddy about possibly bagging a set at that level handicap. May seem to be ragging on you, but get a grasp of just what you have for a swing first before you try to make the game harder for yourself all over again. Player's blades are a different monster all together compared for GI irons.

bob_33
Mar 9, 2009, 09:12 PM
But you weren't a 25+ handicap. I wouldn't get all giddy about possibly bagging a set at that level handicap. May seem to be ragging on you, but get a grasp of just what you have for a swing first before you try to make the game harder for yourself all over again. Player's blades are a different monster all together compared for GI irons.

oo good point, lol, looks lie i was too quick to talk:p

luv2golow
Mar 9, 2009, 09:13 PM
I feel the feedback will be benefitial and more real. I've always believed you deserve what you get in golf. If your swing produces a sh*t shot, you deserve a sh*t shot. Why would you ever want a club to coddle a crappy move? So you can maintain that crappy move forever?

If you want to learn to play well, get the blades. If you want to hang with your friends and enjoy the sun, play shovels and have some fun.

Just my .02

Buddy.... I couldn't have said it better myself. Almost brought a tear to my eye....Almost.:p

Willy speaks the truth, at least in my opinion. If you wanna learn how to hit the centre of the face; or at least if you wanna know how it's supposed to feel... then nothing compares to the feedback of a pure blade. You definitely gotta have a consistent swing to use them to your full advantage. As an experiment this winter, for the first time in years; I purchased a set of players cavities. (Tourstage Z101's). I shafted them up and hit them against the Gauges. The Z's look exactly like blades at address. Within an hour of hitting them side by side; I went right back to the blades. There was no comparison. I just didn't get the feedback I feel I need to play my best. Nothing wrong with the Z's..... But they just ain't blades.;)

At the end of the day, play what you like, what looks good to you; what feels nice.... As a relative newcomer to the game, you don't need to rush. Work on grooving your swing....You'll know when you're ready to go to the next level with the sticks. When you feel that you're getting all your gonna get out of your current stix... then it's probably time.:D

Likes The Links
Mar 9, 2009, 09:29 PM
Thanks everyone. Good info. My wife should thank you as I think you all just talked me out of buying those MP-60's I seen on sale:(

racmbs
Mar 9, 2009, 09:34 PM
I feel the feedback will be benefitial and more real. I've always believed you deserve what you get in golf. If your swing produces a sh*t shot, you deserve a sh*t shot. Why would you ever want a club to coddle a crappy move? So you can maintain that crappy move forever?

If you want to learn to play well, get the blades. If you want to hang with your friends and enjoy the sun, play shovels and have some fun.

Just my .02

Sorry Will, but I'm gonna jump all over you for this one.

Players cavities over the last 5 years or so have come a long, long way....more so than blades have ever done. Workability in these players cavities is about the same I would say, as weight has been distributed in the proper channels to give that "blade like" feel in center and off center hits. I've played my fair share of blades over the years, and can say that with pured and missed shots, they feel just about the same as they would with players cavities. I've found that having the right set of shafts in either sets of heads is what made the obvious difference in feel for me.

The biggest differences in these two heads styles is of course the physical aspects, one being a full muscle and the other being a cut-cavity, but if you were to take apart the heads spec for spec you'd be quite surprised to see that the offset in these clubs is pretty much bang on for what a set of players blades would be setup for.

So before one runs out saying that "in order to learn how to play the game better, play blades"....do this first:

Learn how to swing the club on plane and hit the center of the club face consistently, before deciding which set of bats is right for you.

Weirfan
Mar 9, 2009, 10:00 PM
IMO I would say stick to the game improvement clubs until you get in the 10 or less range

that said handicap and use blades are not perfectly correlated ....

you can carry a high h/c and still be a really good ball striker so could very well use a mb/blade

or you could be like me and carry a single digit handicap and be a horrible ball striker:(

while I have and can use blades only if I am able to play/practice at least once a week , sadly....that never happens these years so it's players cavity backs ...Wishon 560 mc's

and whomever said that a blade is as forgiving as a cb...is completely out to lunch:rofl:

drlongbombs
Mar 9, 2009, 10:32 PM
Thanks good information. I started to break 100 regularly by the end of last season. I'm hoping to be able to break 90 fairly often by mid summer.



Either way though, with any type of player irons, do you seem to feel the feed back from the club will be better than hitting game improvement at this stage of skill level.

not to discourage you my brother but dropping 10 strokes in half a summer in your second season is pretty ambitious. It can be done if you are an athlete and take some lessons with a lot of practice.

I think the question is, can you work the ball with any measure of consistency right now? If not I personally would stick to the GI's until you are able to work the ball a little with them. Once you actually consciously decide whether the ball fades or draws, then maybe start to think about blades.

I agree with lots of other posts, I can work the ball fine with my X22s. The GI's are very nice these days.

TourIQ
Mar 9, 2009, 10:47 PM
My question is at what point or what handicap should one move to Blades from Game Improvement clubs? Also, what is the main benefit of blades?When you get into the single digit range, under 10 hcp. :D Today's player cavities are just fine similar to a blade at address. If you want to fool around with a real blade get a set of 25 year old forged blades with real small heads. You will learn quick enough if your ballstriking improves or not.

cobbie_90
Mar 9, 2009, 10:51 PM
anytime you want ..... i started golfing 4 years ago and ive always used blades ..... love the feel and hate the look of that shovel cavity back iron

Bellyhungry
Mar 10, 2009, 08:13 AM
Why not have both CB and MB sets? It is not a crime to own more than one set.

You can go back and forth with them.

RobertThompson
Mar 10, 2009, 08:54 AM
I once had a conversation at the Canadian Open with Chris Baryla, who was having a good year on the Nationwide Tour. I was surprised to see Chris playing the same R7 forged irons that I was playing at the time. His response was simple: "I'm not good enough to hit blades."

You see a ton of tour players hitting cavity-back irons. Why? Because they work.

cldale
Mar 10, 2009, 09:13 AM
My own two cents:

Blades aren't the death some say. I've only been playing 2.5 years and I am playing blades (just had a set of Nike Blades (3-PW) reshafted to fit my spec) and I can honestly say the feel from the blades has been very helpful in my learning process.

That said, I take a lesson and week and generally try to hit the range at least once on the side. I hit a couple hundred balls every time I go out. I have the kind of personality that can deal with short-term pain in order to get higher long term gain.

Handicaps haven't gone down in our generation, despite all the advances in technology. PGA courses are longer, players hit further, but ball-striking has declined by any metric you can to pick. This as all the pro's are moving to equipment that should be more forgiving? That alone should tell you something. Pro's use cavity back irons so they can get away with overswinging, because at the top levels the game has gotten distance crazy.

ontario
Mar 10, 2009, 09:24 AM
I'm playing to a 12 handicap these days and I still don't know how to "work" a ball. Sure, I can hook or fade it on the range but when it comes down to on-course play with all the variables like lie and wind, it's very difficult to predict the ball flight. So I don't even try.

In fact, I'd say of the many single digit handicaps that I play with, only one can move a ball around at will. Most, like me, just want to hit it straight or at least have a predictable draw or fade.

With irons, I think it's mostly about feel and confidence. I don't like the look or feel of game improvement irons so I play forged cavity backs.

Rickli8148
Mar 10, 2009, 09:32 AM
Why not have both CB and MB sets? It is not a crime to own more than one set.

You can go back and forth with them.

Or for short irons, play blades and for long irons, play CB. Actually this is my plan this year.

Bluefan75
Mar 10, 2009, 09:42 AM
I'm not sure I'm buying that, RT. I think every tour pro could hit the ball with a thimble on the end of a broomstick if they wanted to. "I'm not good enough to hit blades" sounds a lot better, and fits in a lot better with the stategy, than the likely truth, which is "I'm paid to play these clubs, and it's very tough for Taylor Made to sell blades to the general market and saying 'Play the same clubs that won on tour'." The equipment manufacturers' names on the bags and hats and sweaters are not there out of charity, and the tradeoff to taking that money is sometimes you're playing the club they want you to play.

Now, I'm not saying that is wrong. A professional has a family to feed, and there may only be so many opportunities, so you cash in while you can. Until equipment deals, or even free equipment, is banned, I don't think one should mix what a tour pro is playing with what he can play.

I always have this argument when it comes to hybrids, though. If we're going to use pros as examples of what to do for a person who is looking to improve, shouldn't we be using the best pro? And last I checked, he has a 2 iron, no hybrids, and he plays blades.

Andru
Mar 10, 2009, 09:52 AM
Maybe I'm a little ahead of myself here but I am curious. I believe at the end of last summer my handicap was set at 27 or 28. This will be my second season playing this year and I plan to take more lessons and practice more. I believe I understand the fundamentals of the swing a lot more from my winter reading and research. I'm putting plenty of pressure on myself to lower that handicap and become much more consistent. My question is at what point or what handicap should one move to Blades from Game Improvement clubs? Also, what is the main benefit of blades? I'm assuming it they have the ability to work the ball more.

I know some of these questions must be silly to some of you but I'm kinda learning everything as I go here. Damn Addictive Game:rolleyes:

The only time you should move to blades is when someone pays YOU to play them.

coe14
Mar 10, 2009, 09:55 AM
I'm not sure I'm buying that, RT. I think every tour pro could hit the ball with a thimble on the end of a broomstick if they wanted to. "I'm not good enough to hit blades" sounds a lot better, and fits in a lot better with the stategy, than the likely truth, which is "I'm paid to play these clubs, and it's very tough for Taylor Made to sell blades to the general market and saying 'Play the same clubs that won on tour'." The equipment manufacturers' names on the bags and hats and sweaters are not there out of charity, and the tradeoff to taking that money is sometimes you're playing the club they want you to play.

Now, I'm not saying that is wrong. A professional has a family to feed, and there may only be so many opportunities, so you cash in while you can. Until equipment deals, or even free equipment, is banned, I don't think one should mix what a tour pro is playing with what he can play.

I always have this argument when it comes to hybrids, though. If we're going to use pros as examples of what to do for a person who is looking to improve, shouldn't we be using the best pro? And last I checked, he has a 2 iron, no hybrids, and he plays blades.

Hogan, probably the best ball striker ever, once said that he hit one, maybe two, dead center during a round - the rest were mishits.

Blades are for vanity only.

cldale
Mar 10, 2009, 09:57 AM
Bluefan75: This is what I've thought for some time. Companies don't promote their blades (if they even make them) and probably pressure their tour staff to play the cavity back irons in order to increase sales.

I mean, do you really think that many pro's are clamoring to switch driver every year? If they have something that works, they probably want to stick with it. I actually suspect a lot of "R9" guys this season are probably playing painted R7 or older drivers.

Hogan, probably the best ball striker ever, once said that he hit one, maybe two, dead center during a round - the rest were mishits.

Blades are for vanity only.

Hogan seemed to do ok with that then... perhaps we're all drastically overestimating the benefit of the cavity?

I suppose the question this raises as well: if hogan had of started playing cavity backs, would he have remained such a good ballstriker, or would the more forgiving head of slowly enabled him to be a little lazier, swing a little harder, etc?

coe14
Mar 10, 2009, 10:12 AM
Bluefan75: This is what I've thought for some time. Companies don't promote their blades (if they even make them) and probably pressure their tour staff to play the cavity back irons in order to increase sales.

I mean, do you really think that many pro's are clamoring to switch driver every year? If they have something that works, they probably want to stick with it. I actually suspect a lot of "R9" guys this season are probably playing painted R7 or older drivers.



Hogan seemed to do ok with that then... perhaps we're all drastically overestimating the benefit of the cavity?

I suppose the question this raises as well: if hogan had of started playing cavity backs, would he have remained such a good ballstriker, or would the more forgiving head of slowly enabled him to be a little lazier, swing a little harder, etc?

CBs make off center hits a lot better - Hogan hit very few off center. But I guarantee you that Hogan would have used the long putter.

Pingnut
Mar 10, 2009, 10:13 AM
People should play with whatever they want and feel comfortable with. But, with that being said, you're not going to make very many birdies if you are not hitting the green with your approach shots. :p

I remember watching the Canadian amateur that was played at Mississauga on TV and the winner was playing with shovels.. Rocco, the man who took Tiger to 91 holes at last years US Open was playing shovels.. :cool:

I'm on a quest to find the most forgiving irons I can. My latest experiment is a set of i5's.. but the new Adams A4's sure look nice - and my oh my the Taylor Made Burner sure are getting a lot of hype. Maybe the Troll will let me take a few swings with his Bridgestone CG Mid's at Brantford this summer.. :help:

cldale
Mar 10, 2009, 10:15 AM
People should play with whatever they want and feel comfortable with. But, with that being said, you're not going to make very many birdies if you are not hitting the green with your approach shots. :p

I remember watching the Canadian amateur that was played at Mississauga on TV and the winner was playing with shovels.. Rocco, the man who took Tiger to 91 holes at last years US Open was playing shovels.. :cool:

I'm on a quest to find the most forgiving irons I can. My latest experiment is a set of i5's.. but the new Adams A4's sure look nice - and my oh my the Taylor Made Burner sure are getting a lot of hype. Maybe the Troll will let me take a few swings with his Bridgestone CG Mid's at Brantford this summer.. :help:

The man who took 1-Legged Tiger to 91 holes you mean :)

ProAc_Fan
Mar 10, 2009, 10:46 AM
Just my take but given the fact I'm never going to be a tour player of any type AND I play golf because I enjoy it, I'll stick with good GI irons for the rest of my natural life. The suggestion of cavity backs for the longer irons and muscle backs for the scoring clubs is a good one. That is exactly what I use now with my Nike Forged Pro Combos. Golf has never been so much fun and for me that is the whole point. Hitting 1000 balls a day to improve my swing kind of gets in the way of living. I think too many people forget golf is supposed to be fun and are constantly finding ways to make it more difficult.

YMMV

Mike

gimmeabogey
Mar 10, 2009, 10:55 AM
If you read Golf Digest's Hot List they categorize clubs into 4 groups.
Most game improvement.........18+ hdcp
Game Improvement...............11-18 hdcp
Better player........................1-10 hdcp
Pro.....................................0 or better hdcp

By these standards you should be using most game improvement clubs. However you will soon find that you will obsessively keep buying more clubs to improve your game or for other reasons, which you make up along the way. Just check out some of the threads here and see how many sets people own and still buying more for their collection, because they have to.That's golf. You will end up with many many sets along your golf career whether you like it or not. Look you started already. So go ahead buy those blades and buy a set of most game improvement clubs, also a better player clubs too while you are at it. But I would suggest you first buy something like Cally fusions for most game improvement clubs which are so much easier to hit and then buy the other sets. Be sure to buy as many putters and drivers as you can fit into your secret spot your wife doesn't know about.

cldale
Mar 10, 2009, 11:23 AM
Just my take but given the fact I'm never going to be a tour player of any type AND I play golf because I enjoy it, I'll stick with good GI irons for the rest of my natural life. The suggestion of cavity backs for the longer irons and muscle backs for the scoring clubs is a good one. That is exactly what I use now with my Nike Forged Pro Combos. Golf has never been so much fun and for me that is the whole point. Hitting 1000 balls a day to improve my swing kind of gets in the way of living. I think too many people forget golf is supposed to be fun and are constantly finding ways to make it more difficult.

YMMV

Mike

OP stated they wanted to get serious about improvement though, so I think a club which provides maximum feedback is the way to go with that in mind.

I have fun with my blades, I enjoy the process of working at improving my game. Not everyone is built like that thought. Some want something for nothing :)

I am not saying they are right for everyone, if you're not of the mindset to really work at it to improve then you probably want to go a different route. I sure wouldn't set my wife up with blades, I'd give her a set of hybrids. She won't practice, so there is no point buying her anything other than the easiest to hit set possible.

If you read Golf Digest's Hot List they categorize clubs into 4 groups.
Most game improvement.........18+ hdcp
Game Improvement...............11-18 hdcp
Better player........................1-10 hdcp
Pro.....................................0 or better hdcp


Just marketing gimmick. Does anyone trust anything from golf digest? I mean, they count "buzz" as a factor in deciding what a good club is.

If you're older than about 25, you likely grew up playing blades, your father played blades, his father did. Is your handicap better than his?

davevandyk
Mar 10, 2009, 11:35 AM
I suppose the question this raises as well: if hogan had of started playing cavity backs, would he have remained such a good ballstriker, or would the more forgiving head of slowly enabled him to be a little lazier, swing a little harder, etc?

I have never understood this argument, why would this happen in the least bit? The only benefit I can see is that perhaps you don't have to spend time on the range hitting and perfecting your irons, instead spending the bulk of your time where it really matters: on and around the greens

Pingnut
Mar 10, 2009, 11:39 AM
I have never understood this argument, why would this happen in the least bit? The only benefit I can see is that perhaps you don't have to spend time on the range hitting and perfecting your irons, instead spending the bulk of your time where it really matters: on and around the greens

When Trevor Immelman was winning the Masters, the announcers keep talking about how he is considered one of if not the best ball striker in the game.. I believe he won playing Nike cast CCI's... GI irons.

cldale
Mar 10, 2009, 11:50 AM
I have never understood this argument, why would this happen in the least bit? The only benefit I can see is that perhaps you don't have to spend time on the range hitting and perfecting your irons, instead spending the bulk of your time where it really matters: on and around the greens

Not because you could/would practice LESS, but because the more forgiving head would allow you to get away with slighly overswinging. More forgiveness in the face is going to lead you to more often try and max out your swings (because the downside risk is less) and I think that for the vast majority of golfers (myself included) this is a killer, it ruins tempo and rhythm.

When Trevor Immelman was winning the Masters, the announcers keep talking about how he is considered one of if not the best ball striker in the game.. I believe he won playing Nike cast CCI's... GI irons.

Immelman was 148th in GIR in 2008, hardly one of the best ballstrikers in the game. Announcers will fawn over anyone who is winning at Augusta.

Bluefan75
Mar 10, 2009, 12:56 PM
I have never understood this argument, why would this happen in the least bit? The only benefit I can see is that perhaps you don't have to spend time on the range hitting and perfecting your irons, instead spending the bulk of your time where it really matters: on and around the greens

There was a thread in the last two weeks about that though. The time spent around the green doesn't really matter nearly as much when you're taking 3 and 4 just to get around them.

Richard
Mar 10, 2009, 05:36 PM
CBs make off center hits a lot better

I keep hearing this but it is not my experience

Case in point today on the range, hitting a 3 iron mb miura baby blade and a 2 iron Mizuno fli hi, super sized, super cavity.

Mishits were mishits, I don't see much difference when you miss, the fli hi didn't miraculously make a bad strike fly high and true. Solids felt better with the mb to me. I missed more often with the fli hi than the blade today. I think because the blade suits my eye much better. But I didn't miss either one too often, swing is coming around :)

If you want to hit blades hit them, if you don't, don't, people need to decide for themselves. It's mostly all in our heads when you play a quality made club.

Likes The Links
Mar 10, 2009, 07:43 PM
Wow.....so many good opinions. Seeing as I started this mess I'd like to say that I went to Golf Town today and the guy there talked me out of buying the Mizuno MP 60's as well. Soon as he heard my handicap he told me to invest in newer GI irons. Well I already hit TM Supersteel. I bought them used and they may be old but work great. No need to by newer of the dame thing.

I may be stubborn but I'm going to go back and by the MP 60's. Mainly because I'd rather learn how to hit something properly than compensate for it for too long. As well I know my handicap is high at 26 but I started out scoring 135 on a tough course and ended the summer in the low 90's fairly often. My main problem was with my short game. 75 to 25s yard in is a killer to me. Also my arm became so sore from practicing that it was difficult to play.

I understand my weaknesses and understand that I have a willingness to work on it. Many of you may think that I show up this year with $1000.00 dollar clubs and a $10.00 game but I'd rather learn the best way. It could cost me a bit in lessons as well but so what. I should have broke 90 4 times last year except for very foolish decisions in the short game. If I don't start hitting in the low 80's this summer I'm going to be very disappointed in myself. Some may feel that's too much to ask of oneself but I personally think I can do it.

Thanks for all the input. Excellent opinions on every ones behalf:)

WILL
Mar 10, 2009, 08:17 PM
CBs make off center hits a lot better


I call BS.

Likes The Links
Mar 10, 2009, 08:20 PM
Hmmm....maybe spoke to soon about the Mizuno's. If Leftygolfer30 still has those MacGregor's for sale I'd be very interested in them:shhh:

Leftygolfer30
Mar 10, 2009, 08:46 PM
Hmmm....maybe spoke to soon about the Mizuno's. If Leftygolfer30 still has those MacGregor's for sale I'd be very interested in them:shhh:

I've still got them. They're fantastic clubs with great shafts.

Andru
Mar 10, 2009, 11:36 PM
Hogan seemed to do ok with that then... perhaps we're all drastically overestimating the benefit of the cavity?


I'm not certain cavity back irons were a viable option when hogan played. Not like they are today.

I call BS.

No way it's true. I played 690 MB's for 4 years. I use to practice every day. I was a good ball striker. Once I switched to my Cally X20's I really noticed a difference on off center hits. The ball may be 5 yards shorter on a 7 iron. My old clubs it was easy 15 yards.

Also if I missed my normal pattern ( a push ) The mb's would flare right badly. Now. They still have a tiny draw and although I still miss right. it's not as bad.

plus in the cold those MB's were nasty on skinny shots.

TourIQ
Mar 11, 2009, 01:34 AM
I keep hearing this but it is not my experience.Its easy to tell just take a few demo 6-irons to the range or game and hit the same shot with a few clubs. I was torn between forged shallow back cavities vs. the game improvement forged MX-23. I bought 2 heads off eBay, had them built up the same then took them to the game. After a half dozen hits all of my shots to the green were better witht the Mizuno's ... for me end of story :D

"I'm not good enough to hit blades" sounds a lot better, and fits in a lot better with the stategy, than the likely truth, which is "I'm paid to play these clubs, and it's very tough for Taylor Made to sell blades to the general market and saying 'Play the same clubs that won on tour'." The equipment manufacturers' names on the bags and hats and sweaters are not there out of charity, and the tradeoff to taking that money is sometimes you're playing the club they want you to play.I agree and will add, many of the players are suboptimizing their career earnings and wins on tour.

I'm not sure I'm buying that, RT. I think every tour pro could hit the ball with a thimble on the end of a broomstick if they wanted to.I totally disagree but this is a common myth or view held by a ton of golfers. Sure they can hit any club they want even a broomstick, but one design of club over another will yield a different % Error (what Dave Pelz calls PEI = Percent Error Index). In other words, one design of iron over another (all other things being equal like shaft, grip and spec's) will increase their statistical probability of lowering (or increasing) their stroke average.

Bluefan75
Mar 11, 2009, 07:44 AM
I totally disagree but this is a common myth or view held by a ton of golfers. Sure they can hit any club they want even a broomstick, but one design of club over another will yield a different % Error (what Dave Pelz calls PEI = Percent Error Index). In other words, one design of iron over another (all other things being equal like shaft, grip and spec's) will increase their statistical probability of lowering (or increasing) their stroke average.

But remember we're talking about Tour Pros. When you're talking about lowering or increasing their stroke average, you're talking about fractions of a stroke, unlike guys like us where it could be multiple full strokes. Maybe it's my uninformed opinion, but if you gave a tour pro 12 different 6-irons(properly shafted and gripped and bent), what are we talking about, 8 feet of difference in where the ball goes? So maybe they would miss one more putt from that range then they normally would(yes I know one stroke can be the difference between....but we're also getting a long way away from the thread's subject as well.)

I go back to goshawk's thread about "working the ball", inspired by this thread. Someone posted how Geoff Ogilvie plays a straight ball all the time. He may do that, but I don't believe for a second that Ogilvie couldn't hit draws and fades on command with his eyes closed and be just as precise. My whole point is that justifying "make the game easier with CBs" by saying pros use those clubs is IMHO a bit disingenuous for 2 reasons. One, the endorsement issue I have already mentioned, and two, what they *can* hit and what they *do* hit are two completely different things, and that they could hit blades very easily and still play to pretty much the level they do now.

cldale
Mar 11, 2009, 08:46 AM
I go back to goshawk's thread about "working the ball", inspired by this thread. Someone posted how Geoff Ogilvie plays a straight ball all the time. He may do that, but I don't believe for a second that Ogilvie couldn't hit draws and fades on command with his eyes closed and be just as precise. My whole point is that justifying "make the game easier with CBs" by saying pros use those clubs is IMHO a bit disingenuous for 2 reasons. One, the endorsement issue I have already mentioned, and two, what they *can* hit and what they *do* hit are two completely different things, and that they could hit blades very easily and still play to pretty much the level they do now.

From what I have read of Ogilvey, he has a very handsy, timing oriented swing and hits in a single shot pattern (straight to mild cut) because he inconsistent otherwise.

Which is to the point made in Goshawk's thread, very very few players can reliably work both ways. They have a preferred shape which is undoubtedly the shape they hit with the highest reliability and ease. That doesn't mean they CANNOT hit the other shapes, just that their success rate falls when they do, or they don't like the feel of those swings (and are thus less confident executing them).

avidgolfer
Mar 11, 2009, 09:22 AM
On a similar topic, does the increased offset, typical on GI CB irons, help golfers out as much as people think?

cldale
Mar 11, 2009, 09:47 AM
On a similar topic, does the increased offset, typical on GI CB irons, help golfers out as much as people think?

I asked about this on Tom Wishon's forums and the response (from the man himself) was that offset aids in getting the ball in the air but has negligible impact on sidespin.

From my own experience, the one GI feature which really makes a diference is a fatter sole to help keep from digging on heavy/fat hits. Everyone laughs about GI irons being "shovels" but I never experienced true digging until I first hit my blade irons on grass. I quickly learnt what it means to "dig".

Which again is to my point about blades, I didn't realize I was even doing this with my older cheapo GI irons. I couldn't feel how fat the hits where.