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Anthony
Jul 3, 2009, 09:19 AM
Congrats to a week of members breaking 70.... No easy feat... So I posted what I thought is necessary to break 70 and repeating it below.

Breaking 70

1. Must be accurate off the tee
2. Have to hit GIR's (probably 14 minimum)
3. No loose shots
4. Make 1-2 bombs
5. Don't miss anything under 5'
6. Make an up and down or two....
7. Take advantage of par 5's (-2 I imagine)

Now for me Breaking 80 would require

1. Off the tee and no lost balls - 1-2 can be loose, but can't ground them 50-100 yards or hit into the woods
2. All shots must be in direction of green, no shanks or hooks or slices
3. Par 3 of the par 5's (6's really hurt the scorecard)
4. +2 at worst on par 3's
5. At least 1 birdie
6. Stay out of traps (at least get out of them and on to the green)
7. 9 GIR's (Collar or right by the green, within 20'-30' of hole in fairway counts)
8. No doubles
9. No more then two 3 putts
10. Make those 5'
11. Make at least one long putt
12. 2 Up and downs
13. No penalties
14. Good leaves if you do make a bad swing

Anything else???

And you wonder why it is so hard....

JR59
Jul 3, 2009, 09:35 AM
Now for me Breaking 80 would require

1. Off the tee and no lost balls - 1-2 can be loose, but can't ground them 50-100 yards or hit into the woods
2. All shots must be in direction of green, no shanks or hooks or slices
3. Par 3 of the par 5's (6's really hurt the scorecard)
4. +2 at worst on par 3's
5. At least 1 birdie
6. Stay out of traps (at least get out of them and on to the green)
7. 9 GIR's (Collar or right by the green, within 20'-30' of hole in fairway counts)
8. No doubles
9. No more then two 3 putts
10. Make those 5'
11. Make at least one long putt
12. 2 Up and downs
13. No penalties
14. Good leaves if you do make a bad swing

Anything else???

And you wonder why it is so hard....

I got under 80 for the first time this year and this is how my round compared to your list.

1. Had a few loose tee shots, one went into the woods but gave me a wide open spot to chip it out, no lost balls off the tee.
2. Most shots were in 'direction' of the green, two approach shots missed long and left, both were wide open areas, both also resulted in a bogey.
3. Made par on both par 5s on the back 9, played them 3 over on the front 9.
4. Played the par 3s in 1 over, and really should have been 1 under.
5. Had 2 birdies, lipped out a 6 footer and blatantly missed a 3 footer for bird as well.
6. 2 traps all day, both resulted in a bogey.
7. 9 GIRs, 1 or 2 more on the fringe.
8. Had one double bogey.
9. Had 2 three putts.
10. Didn't really make a lot of putts, a 10 footer and 5 footer for birdie were the only ones.
11. Never really made a long one, think I was 32 or 33 putts on the day.
12. Did get up and down twice I think.
13. Put one ball in the creek, same hole I made a double on.
14. Almost always had a good leave. This is I think one of the most important things, not getting into trouble with your poor shots. Making sure you miss in the right spot is a key in keeping your score low.

Anthony
Jul 3, 2009, 10:04 AM
I got under 80 for the first time this year and this is how my round compared to your list.

1. Had a few loose tee shots, one went into the woods but gave me a wide open spot to chip it out, no lost balls off the tee.
2. Most shots were in 'direction' of the green, two approach shots missed long and left, both were wide open areas, both also resulted in a bogey.
3. Made par on both par 5s on the back 9, played them 3 over on the front 9.
4. Played the par 3s in 1 over, and really should have been 1 under.
5. Had 2 birdies, lipped out a 6 footer and blatantly missed a 3 footer for bird as well.
6. 2 traps all day, both resulted in a bogey.
7. 9 GIRs, 1 or 2 more on the fringe.
8. Had one double bogey.
9. Had 2 three putts.
10. Didn't really make a lot of putts, a 10 footer and 5 footer for birdie were the only ones.
11. Never really made a long one, think I was 32 or 33 putts on the day.
12. Did get up and down twice I think.
13. Put one ball in the creek, same hole I made a double on.
14. Almost always had a good leave. This is I think one of the most important things, not getting into trouble with your poor shots. Making sure you miss in the right spot is a key in keeping your score low.

It mirrors my list almost to a tee;).... Well done.... Can I ask if you are a long hitter and/or was it a short course? You also had 2 birdies and hit two others to under 6'.... That means you were on fire....

JR59
Jul 3, 2009, 10:45 AM
I woulnd't call myself a long hitter, nor a short hitter. A good drive for me is about 260-265. Average around 250 I'd say.

The course was not long, wet though, 6200 yards only.

The shots I hit close were with a 6-iron, 8-iron, PW, and 60* wedge.

Anthony
Jul 3, 2009, 11:18 AM
I woulnd't call myself a long hitter, nor a short hitter. A good drive for me is about 260-265. Average around 250 I'd say.

The course was not long, wet though, 6200 yards only.

The shots I hit close were with a 6-iron, 8-iron, PW, and 60* wedge.

I hope you didn't take my questions negatively, I just am always curious. Great round, nice iron play......

Big Shooter
Jul 3, 2009, 11:31 AM
Agreed with your list.
I've only broken 80 once, and it was a 75!?
...one thing for sure is, ya gotta "scramble" better than usual. ;)

tywl
Jul 3, 2009, 11:46 AM
Congrats to a week of members breaking 70.... No easy feat... So I posted what I thought is necessary to break 70 and repeating it below.

Breaking 70

1. Must be accurate off the tee
2. Have to hit GIR's (probably 14 minimum)
3. No loose shots
4. Make 1-2 bombs
5. Don't miss anything under 5'
6. Make an up and down or two....
7. Take advantage of par 5's (-2 I imagine)

Now for me Breaking 80 would require

1. Off the tee and no lost balls - 1-2 can be loose, but can't ground them 50-100 yards or hit into the woods
2. All shots must be in direction of green, no shanks or hooks or slices
3. Par 3 of the par 5's (6's really hurt the scorecard)
4. +2 at worst on par 3's
5. At least 1 birdie
6. Stay out of traps (at least get out of them and on to the green)
7. 9 GIR's (Collar or right by the green, within 20'-30' of hole in fairway counts)
8. No doubles
9. No more then two 3 putts
10. Make those 5'
11. Make at least one long putt
12. 2 Up and downs
13. No penalties
14. Good leaves if you do make a bad swing

Anything else???

And you wonder why it is so hard....

Nice post Anthony...do you have a simular list for breaking 90...because thats where I am at present :help:

mstram
Jul 3, 2009, 12:19 PM
Breaking 70

1. Must be accurate off the tee
2. Have to hit GIR's (probably 14 minimum)
3. No loose shots
4. Make 1-2 bombs
5. Don't miss anything under 5'
6. Make an up and down or two....
7. Take advantage of par 5's (-2 I imagine)


I still have my scorecard for my 67 shot way back in 1980 at Markland:D

- 12 GIR
- 30 putts
- 2 eagles (short par 5's ~480ish, reached 1 putted both "bombs" ~20 footers)
- 3 birdies
- 3 bogeys (missed 4 foot par putt, miss 2 foot par putt, miss 10 foot par putt


Now for me Breaking 80 would require

1. Off the tee and no lost balls - 1-2 can be loose, but can't ground them 50-100 yards or hit into the woods

2. All shots must be in direction of green, no shanks or hooks or slices


Those requirements sound more to me like what is needed to break 90.

Frankly since day 1 of being on a golf course, I've rarely every "grounded" / dubbed a shot, as I've always based my swing on ... well a swing, and not a HIT. And swinging at a 75-80% max tempo also is a big factor in achieving consistent contact.


4. +2 at worst on par 3's


Avoiding doubles (or worse), is fundamental to breaking 90 or lower. The easiest way, is to avoid falling for the temptation of the "miracle" shot, and instead pitching out / short , etc, playing for a fairly certain bogey.


6. Stay out of traps (at least get out of them and on to the green)


"At least get out of them on the green", is a 90-100 shooter mentality.

It's been said countless times before, short game is the biggest stroke saver area. To break 80 consistently, your sand game needs to be better than just "get on the green". 10-20 feet from the hole out of an "average" bunker is within anyone's ability with "average" amount of practice.



7. 9 GIR's (Collar or right by the green, within 20'-30' of hole in fairway counts)


Good / great putting and chipping can make up for missing greens :D Tour pros have broken 70, hitting less than 10 gir.

I have broken 80 many times hitting 7-10 GIR or less.

nairb49
Jul 3, 2009, 12:38 PM
Many good points. Not hitting GIR isn't too bad a problem as long as your short game saves you ie. chips into 4-5 foot circle and make those putts.

Another big factor is not wasting shots, again, no chips that leave you with 10 footers for par, and if you get in trouble no 'hero' shots that end up hitting trees and worsening your situation leading to doubles/triples.(one recalls Duval plugged on 1 recently who ended up with a triple vs. Mickelson who took an unplayable) If you get into the woods or bush, pitch it out and take the bogey, or if you hit a nice recovery, par.

mstram
Jul 3, 2009, 02:27 PM
Nice post Anthony...do you have a similar list for breaking 90...because thats where I am at present :help:

How long have you been playing?

How often do you play / practice ?

Where are you losing shots?

How many "disaster" (>= double bogeys) do you have a round? Playing for a bogey instead of trying the "hero" shot is often the cure.

1) Do you strike the ball (reasonably) squarely all the time?.
I.e. No dub/flub/extreme fat/thin shots - best achieved by a smooth tempo using 75-80% of your effort.

2) Do you have a predictable shot "shape" (draw, fade, straight) ? If not, either your setup or tempo or swing mechanics have a flaw to be worked out.

3) Are you keeping the ball in play off the tee ?,( edge of rough, avoiding hazards ?)near the greens in 2

- 4-5 l GIR, more is better :D. Gir can be increased by :
--- 1) taking one more club, and swinging easier, instead of relying on your all time best yardage
----2) on shots longer than ~150 yards, aim for the "fat" part of the green, avoiding "short siding yourself"
--3 ) Sometimes on shots >200 yards might be be better to lay up short if a green is severely bunkered / water hazard etc.

The driver is just another club, and shouldn't be swung any harder than a smooth 6 iron.

How far are your average chips / pitches / sand shots finishing from the hole?

How many putts / round are you taking ?

Trying "impossible" shots is often a problem for higher handicap players.

Jack Nicklaus wrote in his book "Golf My Way" ... "When a high handicap golfer tries to hit a 3wood out of a downhill lie in deep rough over a 30 foot tree that's just in front of them, they just don't realize that the shot can't be done"

If you kept every tee shot in play, landed every second shot near the green, hit the green in 3, two putted all but one green there's 89 :). Get up and down a few times, hit 4-5 greens and you're in the mid 80's.

Get up and down a LOT, and hit 6-12 greens, make a few putts and you're in the 70's :D (sort of describes my game !)

Go to a tour event and watch a pro shooting ~par. :

1) Ball always hit "pure" or close to it. (consistent tempo) (compared to the avg AM anyway)

Hit ~60% of the fairways, avoid the "nasty" spots off the tee. Hit 9-14 GIR, most of the them ~15-20 feet from pin, few or no three putts, make a couple putts, there's par or a couple under. Easy game :D

MannyR
Jul 3, 2009, 02:33 PM
Anthony...here's a real simple tip on how to break 90.

Play every hole like it's one stroke more. Put away the driver if it is the cause of problems or you are on a tight hole.
With this mindset all you need is one PAR and the rest bogeys and you have broken 90.
Keep it simple.

Anthony
Jul 3, 2009, 02:41 PM
Nice post Anthony...do you have a simular list for breaking 90...because thats where I am at present :help:

Okay here goes..... Many will disagree.....

1. Learn to hit a driver.... Short hitters need it as far out as possible
2. Hope your bad shots are on holes you can get away with it on. For instance if there is trouble right off the tee try and hit it left away from trouble.
3. Use the right club. If you are inconsistent with your SW and you have a shot where you can hit a safer pitch with a 9 or 7I instead, use those clubs.
4. This is exactly opposite of Harvey Penick.... If you are between clubs, always choose the longer club and an easier swing, as opposed to a full swing, muscling the shorter club. 80-85% of the time average golfers come up short, so you probably need that longer club in any case.
5. Try and get as close to the green as possible, which means learn to hit fairway woods from the fairway and as said Driver off the tee. Only caveat is when there is too much risk (i.e. going for the green, with hazards, when you can actually lay up.
6. Play from the right tee box. Again I say as a shorter hitter, you want to play a game where a good tee shot rewards you with a short iron, a so-so tee shot, you still have a chance to hit the green, if you have to hit a wood to make the green on your second shot after a good drive on 7 of 10 par 4's (or off the tee on a par 3), you are playing the wrong tee.
7. Practice lag putting and really concentrate (my biggest problem) on short putts.
8. Aim for the middle of the green or to the safe side of the green on a tucked pin. Ie. if Sand is to the right of the pin, try and aim left left of the pin, not right at it, where there is a bigger chance you end up in the bunker.
9. Try and miss putt on pro side, which means the high side of the hole..... At least those putts have a chance to be made. Low side putts have no chance.
9. Just play smart.....
10. I call it the 6/6/6 game, 6 pars, 6 bogeys,6 doubles and you have shot 90.... Should be able to reduce the doubles by 1-2 and get lucky with a birdie and an extra par and you're there.


Just some of my suggestions......

Pingeye2_fan
Jul 3, 2009, 02:54 PM
Another good mental trick is to consider every hole is a par 5.

It is easier to play under par when your not thinking about 72, if breaking 90 is the goal you would be surprised how it changes your mindset.

A par on a par 3 can erase a double on a par 5 for example.

5 x 18 = 90

JR59
Jul 3, 2009, 03:04 PM
Another good mental trick is to consider every hole is a par 5.

It is easier to play under par when your not thinking about 72, if breaking 90 is the goal you would be surprised how it changes your mindset.

A par on a par 3 can erase a double on a par 5 for example.

5 x 18 = 90

I used to think like that too. I still try to in a way, just a little different though.

When it was my goal to break 90 I would always tell myself to just make a 5 on every hole, all of a sudden you make a few 4s and maybe a par on a par 3 and the game gets much more relaxed.

I'm now at the point where I'm trying to give myself a chance to be in the 70s every round, the numbers have changed a little bit but the attitude hasn't. My goal now is to give myself a reasonable chance at par on every hole. Reasonable being that I'm unlikely to make worse than a bogey, obviously reasonable also depends on the situation I am in, for example if I'm in the forest my goal would be to chip out and get on the green, then I'd have a putt for par and a 2 putt for bogey. When you're 20 feet out putting for birdie the focus changes towards getting down in 2, likewise when you've got a 10 footer for birdie up the hill, this is where I get aggressive and try to get a stroke back.

The biggest thing I've found to breaking the various numbers is how to approach the game. It really is amazing what course management and mental approach can do for you. If you are being reasonable with your goals relative to your skill and experience level, there is no reason that you can't beat them with some practice and smart play.

I always used to try the hero shot, then that becomes another hero shot, now all of a sudden you've got a really tough up and down for double. It's hard to score well playing that way.

blade_runner
Jul 3, 2009, 08:00 PM
Now for me Breaking 80 would require
1. Off the tee and no lost balls - 1-2 can be loose, but can't ground them 50-100 yards or hit into the woods
2. All shots must be in direction of green, no shanks or hooks or slices
3. Par 3 of the par 5's (6's really hurt the scorecard)
4. +2 at worst on par 3's
5. At least 1 birdie
6. Stay out of traps (at least get out of them and on to the green)
7. 9 GIR's (Collar or right by the green, within 20'-30' of hole in fairway counts)
8. No doubles
9. No more then two 3 putts
10. Make those 5'
11. Make at least one long putt
12. 2 Up and downs
13. No penalties
14. Good leaves if you do make a bad swing

Great list. I scored 83 today at Remington-Parkview's Valley course, and if it weren't for the double and a bogey on two par-5s (nothing peeves me more than bogeying a par5.) and if I had hit more greens, I'd have broken 80.:D

The Troll
Jul 3, 2009, 09:15 PM
Nothing lowers your score more consistently than better misses and more GIR.

Hombre Lefty
Jul 3, 2009, 09:51 PM
Nothing lowers your score more consistently than better misses and more GIR.

Absolutely... haven't had any career rounds this year but I've been much more consistent and it's simply because of that - my bad drives are in the rough not in the trees.... similarly if i miss a putt it's at least close to the hole not way past. makes a huge difference - my low scores aren't any lower than previous years, but i'm in the vicinity much more often than in the past...

knowlzey
Jul 3, 2009, 09:59 PM
Nothing lowers your score more consistently than better misses and more GIR.

I've broken my best round 3 times this year, and I've noticed the best thing is that if I miss it's within up and down range, and I hit a lot of fairways, which equal a lot of hit greens.

beeker
Jul 4, 2009, 11:36 AM
Nothing lowers your score more consistently than better misses and more GIR.In the latest Fairways golf magazine (page 32 - Early Summer edition), there was a little article about students at MIT that came up with a calculation that correlated GIR to score. The formula is:

Score = 95 - (2 x GIR) and is valid plus or minus 1.5 strokes in 18 rounds out of 20.

To break 90, you need to hit 3 greens
To break 80, you need to hit 8 greens

I tried it on a few of my recent rounds and it came out pretty close....give it a try!

Bellyhungry
Jul 4, 2009, 11:46 AM
....10. I call it the 6/6/6 game, 6 pars, 6 bogeys,6 doubles and you have shot 90.... Should be able to reduce the doubles by 1-2 and get lucky with a birdie and an extra par and you're there....

This system sort of works for me except that the 6 doubles are 'others' for me. :$

Albert Hacker
Jul 4, 2009, 12:38 PM
One of the guys I play with shot 78 last week with 3 double bogeys; he spread it around, made a double on a par 3, 4 & 5. The obvious fact being that if he had parred those holes, he woulda parred the course.

Anthony
Jul 4, 2009, 03:02 PM
Now for me Breaking 80 would require

1. Off the tee and no lost balls - 1-2 can be loose, but can't ground them 50-100 yards or hit into the woods
2. All shots must be in direction of green, no shanks or hooks or slices
3. Par 3 of the par 5's (6's really hurt the scorecard)
4. +2 at worst on par 3's
5. At least 1 birdie
6. Stay out of traps (at least get out of them and on to the green)
7. 9 GIR's (Collar or right by the green, within 20'-30' of hole in fairway counts)
8. No doubles
9. No more then two 3 putts
10. Make those 5'
11. Make at least one long putt
12. 2 Up and downs
13. No penalties
14. Good leaves if you do make a bad swing

Anything else???

And you wonder why it is so hard....

So close again today.... Broke a # of my rules and that was my downfall.... Broke the two key ones.... Two doubles (not 3 putts) and 4 three putts.... Only 1 Up and Down...... 2 Birdie Lip outs, no putts over 8'.....

However I am not as concerned with the score (and maybe I should).... I am more pumped about the GIR's, some really nice putts (no luck) and some good course management....

Adds up to a really good game, not the elusive 79 or better.....

Hombre Lefty
Jul 4, 2009, 04:14 PM
In the latest Fairways golf magazine (page 32 - Early Summer edition), there was a little article about students at MIT that came up with a calculation that correlated GIR to score. The formula is:

Score = 95 - (2 x GIR) and is valid plus or minus 1.5 strokes in 18 rounds out of 20.

To break 90, you need to hit 3 greens
To break 80, you need to hit 8 greens

I tried it on a few of my recent rounds and it came out pretty close....give it a try!

makes sense... today i broke 80 hitting only 6 greens, but the short game was good enough to make up the difference

Anthony
Jul 4, 2009, 05:19 PM
In the latest Fairways golf magazine (page 32 - Early Summer edition), there was a little article about students at MIT that came up with a calculation that correlated GIR to score. The formula is:

Score = 95 - (2 x GIR) and is valid plus or minus 1.5 strokes in 18 rounds out of 20.

To break 90, you need to hit 3 greens
To break 80, you need to hit 8 greens

I tried it on a few of my recent rounds and it came out pretty close....give it a try!

Ughhhh!!!!! I hit 11 Greens today and did not shoot 73 or break 80... I played really well and was not upset with my game at all until you posted this....... :hyper:

beeker
Jul 4, 2009, 09:55 PM
Ughhhh!!!!! I hit 11 Greens today and did not shoot 73 or break 80... I played really well and was not upset with my game at all until you posted this....... :hyper:Sorry:$....can you just chalk it up to one of the 2 in 20 rounds where the logic doesn't apply?

Anthony
Jul 5, 2009, 07:06 AM
Sorry:$....can you just chalk it up to one of the 2 in 20 rounds where the logic doesn't apply?

I am what I am, I'm not shooting 73..... At least not yet:rolleyes:. I will have 3-putts, I will not make bombs at all on a regular basis. I have trouble out of the sand (yes I need practice/lessons). Getting up and down is no easy feat. Trust me, like every round, I reviewed it and kicked myself at missed chances, those 1-2 bad swings and close putts that could have been......

I was thrilled with my play as I have now put together now 3-4 really good rounds + 3 scrambles.

WhiZ
Jul 5, 2009, 09:45 AM
As somebody looking to break 80, I thought I'd share my best round (an 82):

8/14 fairways
8/18 GIR
35 putts (1 3 putt and 2 up and downs)
No birdies. (Didn't have a putt within 10 feet for birdie the whole day)
10 pars
6 bogies
2 double-bogies - one was a lateral hazard penalty and one was a topped approach shot
Par 5s were played to +1. I was on in 2 for one of them, but that was my 3 putt for par. Left the 1st putt badly short

So, get rid of the penalty stroke, the 3-putt, and drain one long putt and I could have had a sub-80 round for the first time ever. Oh well. :)

Peace

WhiZ

onishenko
Jul 6, 2009, 02:08 PM
I used to think like that too. I still try to in a way, just a little different though.

When it was my goal to break 90 I would always tell myself to just make a 5 on every hole, all of a sudden you make a few 4s and maybe a par on a par 3 and the game gets much more relaxed.

I'm now at the point where I'm trying to give myself a chance to be in the 70s every round, the numbers have changed a little bit but the attitude hasn't. My goal now is to give myself a reasonable chance at par on every hole. Reasonable being that I'm unlikely to make worse than a bogey, obviously reasonable also depends on the situation I am in, for example if I'm in the forest my goal would be to chip out and get on the green, then I'd have a putt for par and a 2 putt for bogey. When you're 20 feet out putting for birdie the focus changes towards getting down in 2, likewise when you've got a 10 footer for birdie up the hill, this is where I get aggressive and try to get a stroke back.

The biggest thing I've found to breaking the various numbers is how to approach the game. It really is amazing what course management and mental approach can do for you. If you are being reasonable with your goals relative to your skill and experience level, there is no reason that you can't beat them with some practice and smart play.

I always used to try the hero shot, then that becomes another hero shot, now all of a sudden you've got a really tough up and down for double. It's hard to score well playing that way.
Good information for someone like me trying to break 90 this year. Keep it in play by making smarter shots. Avoid the 'hero shot' that often leads to more trouble. Make the GIR more often, quit leaving it long/short of the green and cost a stroke to get on...often not close enough to 1 putt, and if so, too often blow it and two...even 3 putt.