Michelle Wie in the LPGA or PGA? [Archive] - Toronto Golf Nuts

Ego Woods

Jan 6, 2005, 01:22 PM

Focker Singh

Jan 6, 2005, 01:27 PM

Definately the PGA!! It would add so much publicity and grow the sport to new levels, even beyong what Tiger has done so far. I like her ambition of "breaking all barriers". To see her play regularly on the PGA Tour would be awesome! Imagine Wie and Tiger in a Sunday final pairing? WOO WEE!! Now thats entertainment!!

BUTTT!!! I would prefer her to start in the LPGA first. Dominate it like no other has before, then go for her PGA card. Would like her to gain some valuable experience winning and playing in intense situations at all levels.

laxgolf

Jan 6, 2005, 01:54 PM

SW20 MR2

Jan 6, 2005, 01:58 PM

No doubt. I don't understand why she keeps talking about such lofty goals when she hasn't done squat on the LPGA. Until she can beat Annika regularly, she should just keep quiet. She's just giving critics more ammunition if she fails.

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that she should maybe focus on dominating in her own age category first. The girl obviously has crazy skills, but she lost a couple of amateur tournaments last year playing against kids her own age. Losing to PGA pros won't teach her anything about winning. Too much too soon IMO.

el tigre

Jan 6, 2005, 02:31 PM

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that she should maybe focus on dominating in her own age category first. The girl obviously has crazy skills, but she lost a couple of amateur tournaments last year playing against kids her own age. Losing to PGA pros won't teach her anything about winning. Too much too soon IMO. Well, she might be moving a little too fast but I think "dominating" is a little strong. Nobody wins EVERY tournament. She is "competitve" on the LPGA tour and should play there more. She is not competitive at the PGA level - YET. She has the potential.

Most of the PGA/LPGA players did not "dominate" the lower level tiers of golf - they were obviously competitive and won their fair share of tournaments - but "dominating"? It doesn't happen that often and IMHO should not be a prerequiste for moving up to the next level.

And why can't she play BOTH tours? Lots of guys play pretty much full time on both the PGA & European Tours. If Els, Goosen and Harrington can do it, why not Michelle Wie?

Ego Woods

Jan 6, 2005, 02:45 PM

No doubt. I don't understand why she keeps talking about such lofty goals when she hasn't done squat on the LPGA. Until she can beat Annika regularly, she should just keep quiet. She's just giving critics more ammunition if she fails.
While I agree she has a ways to go.....I think mostly everyone see the "potential" that this girl given her age. Done squat on the LPGA? Let's not forget that she isn't even on the tour and plays only from sponsor's exemptions. Check out this thread about Wie that I posted earlier: http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/showthread.php?t=191&highlight=michelle

Specifically her LPGA stats.

-she played in only seven LPGA Tour events and finished in the top 20 in six of them, including fourth place at the Kraft Nabisco Championship (LPGA major)

-her earnings in her LPGA appearances would have been about $257,931, enough to finish 43rd on the money list, already better than Besiegel!

I don't think that's squat.

laxgolf

Jan 6, 2005, 02:45 PM

Well, she might be moving a little too fast but I think "dominating" is a little strong. Nobody wins EVERY tournament. She is "competitve" on the LPGA tour and should play there more. She is not competitive at the PGA level - YET. She has the potential.

Most of the PGA/LPGA players did not "dominate" the lower level tiers of golf - they were obviously competitive and won their fair share of tournaments - but "dominating"? It doesn't happen that often and IMHO should not be a prerequiste for moving up to the next level.

And why can't she play BOTH tours? Lots of guys play pretty much full time on both the PGA & European Tours. If Els, Goosen and Harrington can do it, why not Michelle Wie?
I think if a 15 year old girl is going to be competing full time in PGA tournaments, she should at the very least be expected to dominate at competitions against at least her own age group. When I say dominate, I mean win the majority of the tournaments she enters like the ones she lost this past year. Even Tiger Woods himself said that she might want to consider competing against kids her own age. It seemed to work pretty well for him. Let's face it, as good as she is, her invites are more publicity driven than anything else. I have no problem with her getting the occasional invite to PGA events, but by no means should she be a full-fledged card carrying member of the PGA. At least not yet. She hasn't earned it. Do I think women can compete on the PGA? Absolutely some of them can. I'd love to see Annika get a full season under her belt on the PGA. She'd definitelty be in the top 125 on the money list. Give Michelle Wie a chance to learn how to win before she starts competing against the big boys on tour.

Ego Woods

Jan 6, 2005, 02:49 PM

And why can't she play BOTH tours? Lots of guys play pretty much full time on both the PGA & European Tours. If Els, Goosen and Harrington can do it, why not Michelle Wie?
No offense to Wie, but I think she'll have to be entering many PGA tournaments to be competitive and keep her card especially for the first part of her career.

Ems

Jan 6, 2005, 04:40 PM

After reading this article (http://www.golfserv.com/gdc/news/article.asp?id=29565), and specifically this excerpt:

"Michelle Wie wants to break barriers, not just records. The 6-foot Hawaiian ubertalent wants to someday compete on the PGA Tour as a full-fledged, card-carrying member."
Nice article Ego. Reminds me of the debate on this thread http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/showthread.php?t=253

There's a section in this article that really emphasizes the importance of physique in Golf besides technique.

As for Michelle Wie playing in the PGA, she did say she wants to break barriers, and that's not going to happen in a day or a season. There's a lot of points in this article to say that she has tremendous potential, so even if she's not winning on the LPGA now, it's her potential that is exciting. The fact that she doesn't see any limits is inspiring and the reason why we want her to succeed.

I happened to be watching an interview with her yesterday and she apparently does win a lot playing people her own age, which is why she's going for the harder tournaments. Even though she's not winning as much there, it's the fact that she's bored playing with people that is supposedly at her level that she wants to challenge herself on these other tours.

I want to see her play more in the LPGA and then definitely the PGA when she's ready.

Ego Woods

Jan 6, 2005, 05:13 PM

Let's face it, as good as she is, her invites are more publicity driven than anything else. I have no problem with her getting the occasional invite to PGA events, but by no means should she be a full-fledged card carrying member of the PGA. At least not yet. She hasn't earned it. Do I think women can compete on the PGA? Absolutely some of them can. I'd love to see Annika get a full season under her belt on the PGA. She'd definitelty be in the top 125 on the money list. Give Michelle Wie a chance to learn how to win before she starts competing against the big boys on tour.
I agree with her sponsor's exemptions being publicity driven and I'm sure she's never asked to get a 'free card' to the PGA tour....she wants to earn it....and that's her goal.....is it lofty? I don't know why it should be, the point of a goal is to try and reach something that's not atypically easy to achieve. Is it realistic? IMHO it is........she's got some serious skill....I have no doubt about that.

Too much too soon u say? I'm pretty sure that she's rejected just as many if not more exemptions that were offered to her. But also why would she say "NO" if sponsors offer it to her? It's a great opportunity and the sponsors maybe doing some exploiting, so why can't she take advantage of that too? As of note, she does plan to finish high school and play collegiate golf. I'd say that's a pretty mature decision.

Focker Singh

Jan 6, 2005, 05:13 PM

I think most of us agree that Wie should follow the proper steps in her career by playing more tournaments at the amateur level, then turning pro, but I think LATER on in her career, she should pursue her dreams of playing on the PGA Tour and the Masters. I am only saying this based on the assumption that she WILL indeed dominate in the LPGA. If she can show her dominance at each level, why shouldn't she go for the PGA? Thinking purely on entertainment and publicity reasons it would be great for her to make it to the PGA. It would also be great for the game of golf.

SW20 MR2

Jan 6, 2005, 06:01 PM

No doubt about her potential, but top 20 in six of seven tournaments is still equal to zero wins. While "squat" may have been a little too strong of a word, she still hasn't accomplished much when compared to Annika.

My whole point of contention here is that she needs to take baby steps. It's okay have have an ultimate goal, but you only look like a fool if you speak about them too early. We have seen too many highly-touted amateur athletes turn pro and then bust within a year or two. I would rather her set her goal this year as x number of wins. Once she gets there, she can set another goal.

We didn't see LeBron James (who was more hyped than Wie) or Sydney Crosby come out and say that they wanted to win the championship in their first year or lead the league in scoring the first year. They just want to play hard and help the team.

While I agree she has a ways to go.....I think mostly everyone see the "potential" that this girl given her age. Done squat on the LPGA? Let's not forget that she isn't even on the tour and plays only from sponsor's exemptions. Check out this thread about Wie that I posted earlier: http://www.torontogolfnuts.com/showthread.php?t=191&highlight=michelle

Specifically her LPGA stats.

-she played in only seven LPGA Tour events and finished in the top 20 in six of them, including fourth place at the Kraft Nabisco Championship (LPGA major)

-her earnings in her LPGA appearances would have been about $257,931, enough to finish 43rd on the money list, already better than Besiegel!

I don't think that's squat.

laxgolf

Jan 7, 2005, 07:37 AM

she should pursue her dreams of playing on the PGA Tour and the Masters.
The only way Michelle Wie can get into the Masters is by winning the men's amateur title. That being said, rules change. She's eventually going to have teh complete game to compete, but by that time she won't be an amateur anymore.

Are you sure that she's going to play at the collegiate level? I can see her finishing high school, but I haven't heard anything about her going to college. Personally, I'd probably go pro considering the $$$ at stake (not including Nike throwing hundreds of millions at her).

Ego Woods

Jan 7, 2005, 08:53 AM

Are you sure that she's going to play at the collegiate level? I can see her finishing high school, but I haven't heard anything about her going to college. Personally, I'd probably go pro considering the $$$ at stake (not including Nike throwing hundreds of millions at her).
She does plan to play collegiate golf: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/2004-03-10-wie-college-debate_x.htm

I bet you may have something more to say after reading this article tho :rofl: .....but no matter....I like the attitude she takes when approaching competition...

Ego Woods

Jan 7, 2005, 09:08 AM

No doubt about her potential, but top 20 in six of seven tournaments is still equal to zero wins. While "squat" may have been a little too strong of a word, she still hasn't accomplished much when compared to Annika.
Uhhhhh, I don't know how you can compare Wie to Annika right now.....Wie was ONLY 14 when she did those accomplishments. Isn't it fairer to compare Wie to Annika when Annika was 14? or even when Annika was 16-17?

The buzz that Wie generates is because of the potential that everyone sees she has including her most recent accomplishments in the Amateurs and the LPGA and even the PGA.

We didn't see LeBron James (who was more hyped than Wie) or Sydney Crosby come out and say that they wanted to win the championship in their first year or lead the league in scoring the first year. They just want to play hard and help the team.
Hmmmmmm, I don't think Wie ever said that she wanted to dominate the LPGA or compete in the PGA in her first year that she turns pro.....but she did say that's her career goal.....

And you don't think LeBron set a goal for himself to eventually win an NBA Championship? I'm almost 100% sure that he has.....

What about Malone and Payton who set a goal long time ago to win a Championship? They seem further off now than they ever have in their careers.

Point is, goals can be set and they may or may not be accomplished. However, there's nothing wrong with setting one.

laxgolf

Jan 7, 2005, 10:04 AM

She does plan to play collegiate golf: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/2004-03-10-wie-college-debate_x.htm

I bet you may have something more to say after reading this article tho :rofl: .....but no matter....I like the attitude she takes when approaching competition...
That's a really interesting read. I didn't know that NCAA rule. This could be another ticket to the Masters as I believe the NCAA champion gets a spot at Augusta National. I still don't think she'll go to college though. She's in grade 9 and bored with the competition outside of the LPGA and PGA. College is still 3 years away. There's simply too much $$$ to be made for her to not turn pro as soon as possible. IMO I think that eventually Wie will dominate the LPGA more than Tiger has the PGA.

SW20 MR2

Jan 7, 2005, 10:05 AM

Uhhhhh, I don't know how you can compare Wie to Annika right now.....Wie was ONLY 14 when she did those accomplishments. Isn't it fairer to compare Wie to Annika when Annika was 14? or even when Annika was 16-17?

The buzz that Wie generates is because of the potential that everyone sees she has including her most recent accomplishments in the Amateurs and the LPGA and even the PGA.
I'm not comparing them. The only thing I'm saying is that, if anyone should say what Wie said, it should be Annika. She has played very well and won on the LPGA, whereas Wie hasn't done any of it yet. Fast forward 10 years, if Wie is as good as Annika, then it's time to make a statement like that. That's all I'm saying.

Hmmmmmm, I don't think Wie ever said that she wanted to dominate the LPGA or compete in the PGA in her first year that she turns pro.....but she did say that's her career goal.....

And you don't think LeBron set a goal for himself to eventually win an NBA Championship? I'm almost 100% sure that he has.....

What about Malone and Payton who set a goal long time ago to win a Championship? They seem further off now than they ever have in their careers.

Point is, goals can be set and they may or may not be accomplished. However, there's nothing wrong with setting one.
Setting a goal for yourself is extremely admirable and I respect her for it. At this point, it's unrealistic. Baby steps before big steps. Heck, I could say my goal is just to play in the PGA, but I'm not a fool to state it to my friends or the public. Everyone would just laugh at me. I would have to improve my game and even make it onto a lower-level tour before I'd publicly state anything about making the PGA tour.

el tigre

Jan 7, 2005, 11:51 AM

Heck, I could say my goal is just to play in the PGA, but I'm not a fool to state it to my friends or the public. If that was truly your long-term goal and 57 reporters asked you 43 different variations of that same question every week for a year when you were 14 years old - it might come out! I'm prepared to cut her a little slack when it comes to public statements to the media.

laxgolf

Jan 7, 2005, 12:12 PM

If that was truly your long-term goal and 57 reporters asked you 43 different variations of that same question every week for a year when you were 14 years old - it might come out! I'm prepared to cut her a little slack when it comes to public statements to the media.
Absolutely. And it's for this very reason that right now I don't think she should be competing against PGA players.

SW20 MR2

Jan 7, 2005, 12:56 PM

No doubt. She should just not comment. What I would hate is to see her fail because of the additional pressure that she puts on herself. It's already bad enough to be a 14 year old phenom.

If that was truly your long-term goal and 57 reporters asked you 43 different variations of that same question every week for a year when you were 14 years old - it might come out! I'm prepared to cut her a little slack when it comes to public statements to the media.

Ego Woods

Jan 7, 2005, 01:08 PM

No doubt. She should just not comment. What I would hate is to see her fail because of the additional pressure that she puts on herself. It's already bad enough to be a 14 year old phenom.
Can we try and not forget that she's only 15 right now? When my dad or relative asked me what I wanted to be when I was 14 or 15, I told him I wanted to be some big CEO in the corporate world. Well I know that's probably not going to happen and I'm not gonna say that now at my age. Why does she need to learn some poise, when she's still a kid? And believe it or not, when you have the likes of Els, Palmer, ANNIKA and the media saying that Wie is the real deal, why can't she say she has such a goal?

Ems

Jan 7, 2005, 03:03 PM

Wie's at the age when we encourage teens to dream and tell them anything's possible. I don't think we should criticize her for doing just that even though it's getting a lot of attention. It sounds like a lot of us are just worried that the attention is giving her added pressure, but from what I recall at that age, you give yourself way more pressure than any other outside influence.

At the same time, part of life is handling pressure. If she wants to go pro, better to start learning how to deal with media pressure sooner rather than later :)

Andru

Jan 8, 2005, 10:13 AM

And why can't she play BOTH tours? Lots of guys play pretty much full time on both the PGA & European Tours. If Els, Goosen and Harrington can do it, why not Michelle Wie?
Because Goosen, Els and Harrignton are proven winners. Michelle isn't the best female amateur in the country. She was beat in both the US Womens amateur and US Womens Publinx last year by girls her age. She seems to play well when there's no pressure on her and folds when she's expected to win.

Andru

Jan 8, 2005, 10:20 AM

Do I think women can compete on the PGA? Absolutely some of them can. I'd love to see Annika get a full season under her belt on the PGA. She'd definitelty be in the top 125 on the money list. Give Michelle Wie a chance to learn how to win before she starts competing against the big boys on tour.HAHA did you watch the skins game this year. I think Annika was exposed for the fraud she is. First of all. They set up the course full length this year. Last year they shortened it to make it competitive. She can't make the the top 125 hitting 7 woods into greens most pros are hitting 7 and 6 irons. She's an awesome golfer. She'd kick my *** from here to Sweden and back, but we're not comparing her to me, we're comparing Annika to the PGA tour. She has no shot. Almost making a cut at an event with a weak field. Doesn't make you a top 125 money earner.

laxgolf

Jan 8, 2005, 05:55 PM

HAHA did you watch the skins game this year. I think Annika was exposed for the fraud she is. First of all. They set up the course full length this year. Last year they shortened it to make it competitive. She can't make the the top 125 hitting 7 woods into greens most pros are hitting 7 and 6 irons. She's an awesome golfer. She'd kick my *** from here to Sweden and back, but we're not comparing her to me, we're comparing Annika to the PGA tour. She has no shot. Almost making a cut at an event with a weak field. Doesn't make you a top 125 money earner.
You don't think she's better than the 125th guy on the money list? Again, the skins event is just one event just like the Colonial was. Over an entire season I think she'd get into a comfort zone and she'd find a away to make cuts along the way and do well. She can hit the ball as long as some players (Funk comes to mind but could be wrong about that).

Andru

Jan 9, 2005, 01:18 AM

You don't think she's better than the 125th guy on the money list? Again, the skins event is just one event just like the Colonial was. Over an entire season I think she'd get into a comfort zone and she'd find a away to make cuts along the way and do well. She can hit the ball as long as some players (Funk comes to mind but could be wrong about that).No I don't believe she's as good as number 125. Not a chance. The courses annika plays on the LPGA tour are a joke compared to the PGA tour. The length, rough, speed and hardness of the greens and pin positions are much more difficult on the PGA tour.

A little perspective.

Annika avg. 268 yards in 2004. That would put here 196th on the PGA tour list.

Number 125 is about $623,262 dollars. If she played 25 events she'd have to avg. 24,930 per event or place somewhere around 32nd-40th in every tournament.

Let's take. 125 as an example through 18 events missed about 7 cuts. so just under 50% let's say annika competes in 25 events. and misses the cut in 40%. That's 10. So she has to make $623,262 in 15 events. Now it's 41,550. Per event. or finishing between 25th and 30th. Not going to happen. It's not going to rain all year to soften up the greens for her 7 wood approach shots.

She chose to play the colonial for a reason. The Doglegs took the Drivers out of most of the players hands. It set up nicely for her game. She won't be so fortunate at the other 39 venues on tour.

Shadow

Jan 9, 2005, 07:32 AM

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that once a golfer develops a good golf swing, like Michelle has, that the game becomes 90% mental and the rest is in your head.

Michelle has the potential to become a dominant player on the LPGA Tour, however, until she goes through the learning process that other greats have, she will not dominate, IMO. She has to learn how to win, she has to learn how to lose and learn from those losses. She needs to get into contention, become aware of the pressure and learn how to deal with it. On her present course, it seems that she is avoiding this and will struggle in the early stages of her LPGA career.

To me, Michelle is similar to Christie Kerr. Christie was a teenage phenonenon who was talented, brash and confident that she would be successful on Tour. But she was an absolute bust until she grew up and got some competitive experience. Look at her now.

We can forgive Michele's "top 20" and "play in the Masters" comments as refreshing youthful enthusiasm of a 15 year old whose brain is not yet fully developed. But until she learns how to win, she will not be another Annika.

If I understand correctly, she is now a student of David Leadbetter. If so, this could lead to her an earlier than expected downfall. He is a highly technical, swing thought based instructor who has been successful in screwing up the heads of a number of golfers. If Michelle plays with swing thoughts on her mind, she is doomed.

As for Annika earning a living on the PGA Tour or making the top 125, not a snowball's chance in Death Valley in July.

Having said all of that, I would enjoy being proved wrong by both of them.