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focal
Jun 7, 2010, 11:15 AM
with the young players coming up the ranks quickly, the top 30 is definitely changing fast.

past champions and formerly great players are all scrambling today to qualify for the US Open.

This leaves Mike Weir sitting comfortably at home nursing a bad Memorial, but happy to have had a solid showing in the 2009 US Open to pre-qualify.

Is this the last year Mike Weir has a pre-stamped golden ticket to the US Open? Actually all his automatic majors entry (except the Masters) is in jeopardy in 2011 onward if he doesn't pick it up soon.

Lefty17
Jun 7, 2010, 11:17 AM
I think Weir can have a strong finish to this years US Open and qualify via this year for next. Weir always plays well at Pebble plus this US Open isn't going to be the longest so he has a chance.

focal
Jun 7, 2010, 12:22 PM
I think Weir can have a strong finish to this years US Open and qualify via this year for next. Weir always plays well at Pebble plus this US Open isn't going to be the longest so he has a chance.

I do hope so...been cheering for him, well before the Air Canada championship.

I think his quote last week about the state of his game isn't a a good sign of things....even his architect partner has blogged about it.

http://www.weirgolfdesign.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=8&Itemid=20

play well Mike and prove me wrong

TourIQ
Jun 7, 2010, 11:35 PM
with the young players coming up the ranks quickly, the top 30 is definitely changing fast.Mike has no clue 'how to improve' his game and is now ranked 67th on the OWGR and dropping like a rock in the water.

focal
Jun 8, 2010, 06:05 AM
Mike has no clue 'how to improve' his game and is now ranked 67th on the OWGR and dropping like a rock in the water.

Keeping it analytical. His sand game and putting is solid. Means he is scrambling. Given his relative short distance off the tee he should focus on acuracy instead of gaining a few extra yards. Furyk has a similar length but way more consistency off the tee.

Leftygolfer30
Jun 8, 2010, 06:07 AM
Mike has no clue 'how to improve' his game and is now ranked 67th on the OWGR and dropping like a rock in the water.


And let me guess?

YOU know how to improve his game...:rolleyes:

Golden Bear
Jun 8, 2010, 11:02 AM
Mike's overhauled his swing two or three times in recent years. First, he switched to Stack and Tilt. Then he modified his Stack and Tilt approach by going with a more conventional swing with his longer clubs. Then he abandoned Stack and Tilt altogether and returned to his previous coach.

Those are pretty dramatic changes for any golfer, and you have to expect a period of adjustment. The question is whether he's past the age where he can realistically expect to improve his game dramatically. Mike's one of those golfers who had a great few years, and once he got past those great years it was a matter of maintaining a certain level of play for as long as possible.

He'll never be the player his was seven or eight year ago. Can he even be top-30 again? He's not ancient, by any means, but he may be one of the legion of golfers who hits their late-30s and becomes nothing more than ordinary.

Of course, one hopes that he's a Vijay or Kenny Perry and has a rebirth in his 40s.

gbrgolf
Jun 8, 2010, 11:12 AM
Mike has no clue 'how to improve' his game and is now ranked 67th on the OWGR and dropping like a rock in the water.

I'd love to hear the explanation to this??

focal
Jun 8, 2010, 11:28 AM
Couples during one of his Playing with the Pros talked about length and always having length....it's hard to increase length over your career...good swing speed is a good trait to have from the beginning.

if you look at the newest crop of stud players, they are all 5'9" and definitely under 6 feet. These are all around Weir's stature, but their stats for distance all exceed Weir's. I'm not saying Weir needs distance but he is at a disadvantage.

he needs accuracy off the tee (almost dead last in rank)....the rest of his game is very solid...everyone has good and bad putting days, and he's #1 or in the top few for putting stats....that means he's making a lot of up and downs. Furyk is top 10 in accuracy off the tee...distance is worse than weirs. solid putting stats also. Hence he's at the top of the standings (fedex, money and WGR)

we all talk about amateurs needing to focus on your strengths...maybe Weir tinkered one too many times....Didn't a few other top pro's also have this issue over their careers, seeing a new young stud come out and outdrive them...sending them to forsake the game that got them there.







Mike's overhauled his swing two or three times in recent years. First, he switched to Stack and Tilt. Then he modified his Stack and Tilt approach by going with a more conventional swing with his longer clubs. Then he abandoned Stack and Tilt altogether and returned to his previous coach.

Those are pretty dramatic changes for any golfer, and you have to expect a period of adjustment. The question is whether he's past the age where he can realistically expect to improve his game dramatically. Mike's one of those golfers who had a great few years, and once he got past those great years it was a matter of maintaining a certain level of play for as long as possible.

He'll never be the player his was seven or eight year ago. Can he even be top-30 again? He's not ancient, by any means, but he may be one of the legion of golfers who hits their late-30s and becomes nothing more than ordinary.

Of course, one hopes that he's a Vijay or Kenny Perry and has a rebirth in his 40s.

TourIQ
Jun 8, 2010, 11:33 PM
Given his relative short distance off the tee he should focus on accuracy instead of gaining a few extra yards.There is no reason why Mike has to suboptimize his performance going foward, so based on the right game plan, he could focus and deliver on both distance and accuracy. Why limit improvement to one area only?

Just because he is short off the tee does not mean distance is now off limits from an improvement standpoint. I'm not suggesting Mike will be a 'young gun stud bomber' off the tee, but there is room to make a meaningful rate of improvement to his driving distance. In fact, since he is short off the tee it might be the easiest aspect to improve, without a loss of dispersion / accuracy.

Its funny how being longer and straighter off the tee makes for easier shots into the green, as it takes stress off the game and increases confidence while playing :cool:

Mike changing swings from one year to the next multiple times tells me 'he has no clue on how to improve.' Over the last few years, Mike's recipe for change is not producing results based on the effort expended.

TourIQ
Jun 9, 2010, 08:17 PM
And let me guess? YOU know how to improve his game... I stated earlier that Mike has no clue 'how to improve' his game - if he did, we wouldn't be having this discussion. As an accomplished tour player, Mike has unlimited resources, but what he lacks is a method to garnish a reduction of stroke average.

As a matter of fact Lefty I've known for years how to improve his game, and so does forgedblade. The model for improvement and eventual player optimization is titled “Schiestel HOUSE™”. As a note of caution, don’t interpret this as just clubmaking, as this aspect is only a small part of what we have formulated within our overall approach. You might remember, I was the guy who stated on this forum 3 years ago, that if I worked with Mike I could increase his driving distance by 10 yards with no loss of accuracy, provided “nothing was off limits”, to include cause factors which prevents Mike from reaching “true player optimization.”

I'd love to hear the explanation to this??Gawain you are more than welcome to venture to Wingham, ON to review first hand, our 100+ page portfolio which ‘fb’, Dwight, and I developed over the years regarding Elite Player Development. Most of our research has never been thrown into the public domain. In 2008, our submission titled “Decoding Golf’s DNA” won a Commendation for the Most Original Application of Lean Six Sigma, from The Global Six Sigma and Business Improvement Awards. Not bad for a father and sons team with very limited resources, competing on the global stage against multi-billion dollar companies.

Special_K
Jun 9, 2010, 08:25 PM
that if I worked with Mike I could increase his driving distance by 10 yards with no loss of accuracy, provided “nothing was off limits”, .

A few good doses of HGH and a 'roid cocktail. That should do it! :D

Leftygolfer30
Jun 9, 2010, 10:35 PM
I stated earlier that Mike has no clue 'how to improve' his game - if he did, we wouldn't be having his discussion. As an accomplished tour player, Mike has unlimited resources, but what he lacks is a method to garnish a reduction of stroke average.

As a matter of fact Lefty I've known for years how to improve his game, and so does forgedblade. The model for improvement and eventual player optimization is titled “Schiestel HOUSE™”. As a note of caution, don’t interpret this as just clubmaking, as this aspect is only a small part of what we have formulated within our overall approach. You might remember, I was the guy who stated on this forum 3 years ago, that if I worked with Mike I could increase his driving distance by 10 yards with no loss of accuracy, provided “nothing was off limits”, to include cause factors which prevents Mike from reaching “true player optimization.”

Gawain you are more than welcome to venture to Wingham, ON to review first hand, our 100+ page portfolio which ‘fb’, Dwight, and I developed over the years regarding Elite Player Development. Most of our research has never been thrown into the public domain. In 2008, our submission titled “Decoding Golf’s DNA” won a Commendation for the Most Original Application of Lean Six Sigma, from The Global Six Sigma and Business Improvement Awards. Not bad for a father and sons team with very limited resources, competing on the global stage against multi-billion dollar companies.


AGAIN, if your "methodology gobbledegook" had any basis in fact then you would have PGA Tour pros knocking down your door to listen to what you have to say.

List the PGA Tour pros that have followed your theories, and that's all they are is theories, and prove me wrong.

If your theories are so rock solid, why isn't your son the number 1 player in the world??? :rolleyes:

setter02
Jun 9, 2010, 10:55 PM
Isn't around the same time that he moved to the U.S. that his game fell apart?:rolleyes:

TourIQ
Jun 9, 2010, 11:03 PM
Isn't around the same time that he moved to the U.S. that his game fell apart?:rolleyes:Mike has lived in Utah longer than most Canadians realize :cool:

Malibook
Jun 9, 2010, 11:26 PM
Mike has no clue 'how to improve' his game and is now ranked 67th on the OWGR and dropping like a rock in the water.Weir's game is horrible.
He can't even make it to the weekend to collapse.
He was one of the best on the International team in the last President's Cup and now he is not even remotely close to being good enough to make such a team.
He needs to stop the collapse and mount a dramatic turnaround or he could soon be going back to Q School. :eek:

froghammer
Jun 9, 2010, 11:32 PM
... or he could soon be going back to Q School. :eek:

Rock bottom might be what he needs in order to find out what he's made of or possibly whether or not he actually still wants to play. I see a guy out there now that's barely treading water anymore. It's really sad to watch.

Bentley01
Jun 10, 2010, 08:46 AM
Rock bottom might be what he needs in order to find out what he's made of or possibly whether or not he actually still wants to play. I see a guy out there now that's barely treading water anymore. It's really sad to watch.

Naw, come on. Just being on the Tour means his game is light-years beyond that of all but a handful of top, top amateurs (let alone us GolfNuts). If Freddie can still play at a very high level, so can Mike. All players go through slumps. Tiger was the ONLY golfer that seemed to avoid any prolonged slumps, until lately.

My money's on Mike making a comeback into the top 30.

Bellyhungry
Jun 10, 2010, 09:20 AM
I stated earlier that Mike has no clue 'how to improve' his game - if he did, we wouldn't be having this discussion. As an accomplished tour player, Mike has unlimited resources, but what he lacks is a method to garnish a reduction of stroke average.

As a matter of fact Lefty I've known for years how to improve his game, and so does forgedblade. The model for improvement and eventual player optimization is titled “Schiestel HOUSE™”. As a note of caution, don’t interpret this as just clubmaking, as this aspect is only a small part of what we have formulated within our overall approach. You might remember, I was the guy who stated on this forum 3 years ago, that if I worked with Mike I could increase his driving distance by 10 yards with no loss of accuracy, provided “nothing was off limits”, to include cause factors which prevents Mike from reaching “true player optimization.”

Gawain you are more than welcome to venture to Wingham, ON to review first hand, our 100+ page portfolio which ‘fb’, Dwight, and I developed over the years regarding Elite Player Development. Most of our research has never been thrown into the public domain. In 2008, our submission titled “Decoding Golf’s DNA” won a Commendation for the Most Original Application of Lean Six Sigma, from The Global Six Sigma and Business Improvement Awards. Not bad for a father and sons team with very limited resources, competing on the global stage against multi-billion dollar companies.

You have had this program for a while, isn't it a waste not to put it to practical use?

How about sharing your idea with Nick Starchuk and Coshea from this site and let them give us their opinions.

froghammer
Jun 10, 2010, 09:22 AM
Of course he's better than most golfers. That's a given. What I was saying was about how he's playing in relation to other awesome golfers like himself (but most importantly, what he showed he was capable of earlier...).

Rock bottom for him is miles ahead of where I could ever be. It's all relative.

TourIQ
Jun 11, 2010, 12:20 AM
You have had this program for a while, isn't it a waste not to put it to practical use?

How about sharing your idea with Nick Starchuk and Coshea from this site and let them give us their opinions.BH a very constructive post so I will reply back in a few days :D

RobertThompson
Jun 11, 2010, 05:25 AM
I spoke with him on this very subject for a half hour yesterday. He says he's been getting too inside with his driver -- a chronic problem throughout his career. He worked for the past five days with Mike Wilson, his coach, and feels he's finally got a solution to the problem. I'll write about this when I get some time, but it was a very interesting conversation.

crunch27
Jun 11, 2010, 11:47 AM
Thanks Robert.

I hope Mike has some good feelings heading into the U.S. Open next week at Pebble Beach.

Malibook
Jun 11, 2010, 03:47 PM
US Open Tee Times

7:44 a.m. 1:14 p.m. Tim Clark, South Africa; K. J. Choi, Korea; Mike Weir, Canada

http://www.pgatour.com/2010/r/06/11/usopen-teetimes/index.html

TourIQ
Jun 15, 2010, 11:06 PM
AGAIN, if your "methodology gobbledygook" had any basis in fact then you would have PGA Tour pros knocking down your door to listen to what you have to say. BWOB, I would say Duane was functioning at a level of Six Sigma Brown Belt while still a high school student. As an acclaimed Master Black Belt, our “methodology gobbledygook” has more basis in fact than what is prominent in the golf industry today, which is weak to non-existent. Duane and I were applying the world-class business concepts of Deming, TQM, Lean, and Six Sigma to Elite Development in Golf before any of the big OE’s would even send their product design engineers to similar training. While they focused on driver head design, we focused on the ultimate prize of Stroke Average reduction.

Fact and then getting PGA tour pro’s to knock on the door, well it doesn’t work this way. The tour pro’s are sheltered by their existing inner circle (coaches, agents, etc.) who do not want to upset the existing apple cart. They assist to suboptimize their players potential (resulting performance) and don’t even realize it, nor do they think there is a better way (which will garnish real improvement) over and above what they currently offer. How would they know any better? They were not mentored or trained in a different way of thinking about improvement.

Furthermore, we have virtually zero connections to get 30 minutes of one-on-one face time with an existing tour player.List the PGA Tour pros that have followed your theories, and that's all they are is theories, and prove me wrong. A PGA/LPGA player cannot follow our theory if they do not know what we have created. In other words, we haven’t mastered the art of marketing. Our primary objective was to develop our unique Body of Knowledge and then document Lessons Learned. The foundation for improvement rests with theory, which I might add, we have an abundance of.If your theories are so rock solid, why isn't your son the number 1 player in the world??? Lefty, I am sure your linear logic is far more insightful than your question as stated.

With forgedblade’s god given talent and what we threw at him by way of practice and play facilities, maybe his true limit was a 4 cap following the conventional path advocated by so many. During his last year of university, fb would get to a +1 handicap and set a course record ‘64’. It is possible that our "methodology gobbledygook" was responsible for an additional reduction of stroke average, over and above what he should have been entitled to? Keep in mind, during this time; he received no instruction or coaching for the preceding 3 to 4 years, and his ball striking continued to soar and improve.

Just because you can hit a golf ball does not mean you get to the big tour. Moe Norman “the greatest ball striker on planet earth” never won a PGA event, nor did he get to be the No. 1 player in the world.

To our delight, the next No. 1 player in the world will be a leftie by the name of Phil Mickelson.

TourIQ
Jun 15, 2010, 11:16 PM
You have had this program for a while, isn't it a waste not to put it to practical use? Yes we have had it for a while and it has evolved over time, but it was only 3 years ago when I decided to collect all the files and organize it into a printed 100+ page portfolio. I would agree it’s been a waste not to put it to practical use by tour players. On the surface, most golfers and experts will think “this program” is primarily clubmaking, but “our system” is more profound as deeper understanding sets in.

We view golf from a holistic systems approach, and we do not limit our ability to formulate improvement strategies to the clubs and fitting alone. To do so, would mean an elite player would never reach the level of “True Player Optimization™.”
How about sharing your idea with Nick Starchuk and Coshea from this site and let them give us their opinions. GREAT idea Bellyhungry, and we appreciate the constructive feedback.

Dwight (Dwiggy, X-Box 360 gamer), Duane (forgedblade) and I (TourIQ) would be OPEN to peer review. I would suggest a panel of about 5 to 7 SME’s (subject matter experts). Duane and I will pick the SME team after they are nominated by members or self-nominated.

Do not post nomination names to this thread titled “Mike Weir’s game.” I will start a new thread to get the ball rolling, after I have TGN moderator approval to do so.

Albert Hacker
Jun 18, 2010, 03:27 PM
Was anybody else surprised by this stat? Among all current PGA Tour players, with at least 16 US Open starts, Mike Weir is #4 in scoring average.

Get this; only TW, Phil & Ernie are ahead of Weir. :eek:

focal
Jun 18, 2010, 03:31 PM
tough start on #10 right now...

Bellyhungry
Jun 18, 2010, 03:35 PM
Was anybody else surprised by this stat? Among all current PGA Tour players, with at least 16 US Open starts, Mike Weir is #4 in scoring average.

Get this; only TW, Phil & Ernie are ahead of Weir. :eek:

Very interesting, I think many would have think Furyk is up there and ahead of Weir.

Fantasy09
Jun 18, 2010, 04:30 PM
As usual, Weir is falling off quickly from the leaderboard.

crunch27
Jun 18, 2010, 04:59 PM
OMG....after I saw that he bogied 17 and 18 yesterday, I knew he was toast.

Didn't figure he was going to be BURNT toast. :(

grass connoisseur
Jun 18, 2010, 09:15 PM
I have all the respect in the world for Weir and appreciate how he's raised Canada's profile in the golfing world- but right now he's the Chuck Lidell of golf.

Albert Hacker
Jun 18, 2010, 09:51 PM
I'm getting very frustrated with Weir's penchant, for nice opening rounds, followed by IMPLOSIONS!! :confused:

PingGolfer
Jun 18, 2010, 09:53 PM
http://i47.tinypic.com/iqcw9g.jpg

Weir's front 9:
3 sixes
3 fives
= 43 !

TourIQ
Jun 19, 2010, 05:49 PM
I spoke with him on this very subject for a half hour yesterday. He says he's been getting too inside with his driver -- a chronic problem throughout his career. He worked for the past five days with Mike Wilson, his coach, and feels he's finally got a solution to the problem. I'll write about this when I get some time, but it was a very interesting conversation.Robert what happened to Mike on Friday and Saturday, with rounds of 79 and 83 respectively?

Leftygolfer30
Jun 19, 2010, 05:51 PM
Robert what happened to Mike on Friday and Saturday, with rounds of 79 and 83 respectively?

I guess he didn't read your 100 page document.

Perhaps you should call him up? I'm sure he's dying to hear what you have to say... :rolleyes:

Bentley01
Jun 19, 2010, 05:56 PM
The Canadian scores look more like temperatures than golf scores!
:eek:

http://i47.tinypic.com/iqcw9g.jpg

Weir's front 9:
3 sixes
3 fives
= 43 !

coe14
Jun 19, 2010, 06:08 PM
Robert what happened to Mike on Friday and Saturday, with rounds of 79 and 83 respectively?

helluva solution. Can't wait to hear it.

Bellyhungry
Jun 19, 2010, 10:40 PM
Mikey Weir shot an 83 today. Ouch! :eek:

Greywolf
Jun 21, 2010, 04:51 AM
Weir is brutal, not sure if he is ever going to win again, certainly not the way he is playing these days.

northernpro
Jun 21, 2010, 08:07 AM
turn the lights out..the party is over for this canuck..:(

Richd
Jun 21, 2010, 11:41 AM
poor guy only $500K so far this year

TourIQ
Jun 21, 2010, 08:53 PM
poor guy only $500K so far this yearDon't forget Mike's other business interests and endorsements :D

Fantasy09
Jun 21, 2010, 09:01 PM
poor guy only $500K so far this year
Yeh, very poor:p

Leftygolfer30
Jun 21, 2010, 09:10 PM
Don't forget Mike's other business interests and endorsements :D

Just imagine how much he could make if he hired you to teach him... :rolleyes:

Bellyhungry
Jun 21, 2010, 09:25 PM
Just imagine how much he could make if he hired you to teach him... :rolleyes:

I am still holding my breath, waiting for the grand reveal. :(

TourIQ
Jun 21, 2010, 10:25 PM
Just imagine how much he could make if he hired you to teach him... :rolleyes:It must be painfully obvious to Mike that the 'game plan' he has formulated with the input of his trusted advisors (both recent past and present) is grossly inadequate to even maintain the status quo or right the ship :cool:

davevandyk
Jun 21, 2010, 11:04 PM
I heard what I think is the best summation of Mike Weir's game

The Masters was the best and worst thing to happen to Weir.

Greywolf
Jun 22, 2010, 03:51 AM
poor guy only $500K so far this year

While that amount is good for many of us, it is not for him. He will need to put earn some more money before the end of this year or be prepared for a trip back to Q School.

Lefty17
Jun 22, 2010, 06:31 AM
Isn't Mikey do to take some time off with all the family celebrations he has coming up???