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View Full Version : CDN Tour will dial back the ball 20%


Deuce66
Jul 28, 2010, 08:32 PM
Did anyone else hear this mentioned on Grey Goose tonight, the CDN Tour will force players to use modified balls that only go 80-85% of the current standard, I only caught a bit of the conversation, is it for one event only as a trial?

In effect that would reduce those 300 yard bombs back to mid 80's distances when really long drivers averaged 260 off the tee, now that would change the game.

I would love to see a 54 hole off season event where they have to use persimmon/real blades and balata, the real ball striking talent would rise out of the league of bashers.

it's very interesting that the CDN tour is willing to give this a test. Jack Nicklaus must be happy.

dvgKKM
Jul 28, 2010, 08:36 PM
Its a trial one day event using prototype balls by a couple major manufactures and a dozen Cdn tour players.

WILL
Jul 28, 2010, 08:36 PM
I've been testing these balls for the tour for the past 10 years. They're dead short but spins like mad.

Deuce66
Jul 28, 2010, 08:40 PM
Its a trial one day event using prototype balls by a couple major manufactures and a dozen Cdn tour players.

ok that makes sense, hope they have fun :D

Bellyhungry
Jul 28, 2010, 08:46 PM
Why do some people want to curtail technological progress?

Maybe these people should just join an Amish Mennonite community or something.

wilson
Jul 28, 2010, 08:56 PM
Wow. And after the USGA said they had no interest in persuing this line, the CDN tour comes up with it?
How convienient.

Deuce66
Jul 28, 2010, 09:01 PM
Why do some people want to curtail technological progress?

Maybe these people should just join an Amish Mennonite community or something.


so you would be ok with 450 yard drives in normal conditions? that's not golf imo it's practically video game distances and it takes all of the nuance and challenge out of it for top level players

now we can practically bunt the ball 260 with no effort at all, 20 years ago that was a really well struck drive with power, now it's Corey Pavin distance, I still remember what would happen if you really came over the top and cut across one of those 90 compression balatas, now that's a slice.....these days it's a soft fade

technology has brought everyone into a tighter pack imo and made it tougher for the best players to really separate themselves from the field at the pro level, that's my take on it

Bellyhungry
Jul 28, 2010, 09:09 PM
^^^^

If you pay attention to the driving stat, driving distance have not gone up for the last 3-4 years on the PGA Tour. In fact, I think they have gone down.

TourIQ
Jul 28, 2010, 09:17 PM
Why do some people want to curtail technological progress?

Maybe these people should just join an Amish Mennonite community or something.Agree 100%.

Golfers like to hit long bombs when they can and they also like watching tour players do the same.
Its not like the historical stroke average on average is reducing, so why even bother?

Chambokl
Jul 28, 2010, 09:37 PM
Why do some people want to curtail technological progress?

Maybe these people should just join an Amish Mennonite community or something.

Same here....

sennawcf1
Jul 28, 2010, 10:22 PM
Why do some people want to curtail technological progress?

Maybe these people should just join an Amish Mennonite community or something.

Distance is a relative value. One which is relative to your peers. Therefore a 300 yd drive vs another 300 yd drive is irrelevant. So seeing 300 yd drives is pointless.

The significant reason for curtailing the the golf ball is to stop making current golf courses irrelevant. Not every golf course can lengthen it's layout to accommodate the significant advantages in technology - balls, shafts, clubheads, agronomy and physical fitness.

I am not a Luddite or someone against distance, but to artificially give a larger community of players 300 yd drives just because of technology is pointless. It is not like you can differentiate a 300 yd drive vs. a 280 yd drive on television - where most of us watch golf.

TourIQ
Jul 28, 2010, 11:45 PM
The significant reason for curtailing the the golf ball is to stop making current golf courses irrelevant. Not every golf course can lengthen it's layout to accommodate the significant advantages in technology - balls, shafts, clubheads, agronomy and physical fitness.Golf courses are not irrelevant on the CANTour when a bunch of guys who miss the cut didn't even break par for Thursday and Friday. Consider Seaforth a CANTour stop in August which is a relatively short course. Sure the winner posts like -24 for 4 days but a lot of professional golfers still struggle to post a top amateur score :rofl:

Sure distance is relevant but if golfers now hit 220 yards vs. 240 yards they derive less enjoyment from the game, and golf needs more people playing in a declining market. The new ball is not good strategically for the game. Even Arnie supported the non-conforming driver so regular folks would derive more enjoyment :eek:

sennawcf1
Jul 29, 2010, 12:16 AM
Golf courses are not irrelevant on the CANTour when a bunch of guys who miss the cut didn't even break par for Thursday and Friday. Consider Seaforth a CANTour stop in August which is a relatively short course. Sure the winner posts like -24 for 4 days but a lot of professional golfers still struggle to post a top amateur score :rofl:

Sure distance is relevant but if golfers now hit 220 yards vs. 240 yards they derive less enjoyment from the game, and golf needs more people playing in a declining market. The new ball is not good strategically for the game. Even Arnie supported the non-conforming driver so regular folks would derive more enjoyment :eek:

On the PGA Tour, golf courses are being made unplayable because of the length due to technology. Courses are being lengthened to make the design relevant - perfect example is Augusta National, which is consistently lengthened to bring bunkers and other features back into play. There are many courses which are no longer used because they can't be lengthened.

As for "having more fun" because you can hit it 240 vs 220, I don't see how a longer drive provides more fun. I was under the impression that golf is about the score in relation to PAR not how far you hit the drive. As for Arnie's comment about non-conforming drivers, well let's just remember that he was under contract to Callaway at the time. There are many others, Jack Nicklaus for example, who believe that technology (ball and clubs) are not good for the game.

BowmanvilleJim
Jul 29, 2010, 06:57 AM
This is an experiement that will likely go no where. The ruling bodies (R&A, USGA, RCGA) will not be able to roll back technology. The Tours could implement a "tournament ball" but I doubt they will.

dekker
Jul 29, 2010, 06:58 AM
I seriously doubt that a short ball will make it possible to rejuvenate the old courses that were once on the rota. It's usually the expense of the logistics, as we saw with the intense restriction around St. George, that eliminated many of them.

A Tour Only short ball will not make the pro-game less relevant.
The average game has little in common with that of a pro's so what they do should not be that great a concern out on the "munis".
I can hear Wannabees now, "Yeah I know,but I'm using the short ball."

Bellyhungry
Jul 29, 2010, 07:10 AM
I think some lose sight of the fact that ball technology is not the only factor that contributes to longer distance. Better conditioned golfers and club head technologies are two obvious contributing factors, among others. What would the governing bodies do about these?

Lefty17
Jul 29, 2010, 07:16 AM
I just heard the conversation. They said they're going to hold a one day event with severeal CDN Tour players that will play the ball for the day. The USGA is asking manufacturers to build the ball and they will document the info throughout the day.

I'm not for it or against I just don't want to play the ball... :D

corchard
Jul 29, 2010, 07:47 AM
Tennis has rolled back their ball a couple of times.

Ignatius Reilly
Jul 29, 2010, 08:05 AM
This is an experiement that will likely go no where. The ruling bodies (R&A, USGA, RCGA) will not be able to roll back technology. The Tours could implement a "tournament ball" but I doubt they will.
While I agree that it's unlikely, the ruling bodies could roll back technology if they wanted to. They froze the COR on drivers, and the just rolled back the technology of grooves.
I think some lose sight of the fact that ball technology is not the only factor that contributes to longer distance. Better conditioned golfers and club head technologies are two obvious contributing factors, among others. What would the governing bodies do about these?
Club heads now have some limits.

I think they need to do something to limit gains in yardage to only the golfer's athleticism and skill - that's what we really want to see and gape at at the pro level.

While some old courses can't support the logistics of a modern tournament, there are others that have fallen out of favour because they no longer play as designed. City courses (like St. Georges) are basically landlocked and cannot extent their yardage - and it's cheaper to limit the ball than to go moving bunkers around every 10 years as equipment gets better. It's us golfers that would pay for the changes to courses.

If I imagine a future in which the I can hit driver and wedge into most par 5s, and fly any legacy fairway bunkers - I don't think I'll be patting myself on the back saying "I da man!". Rather I think I'll be saddened that long, risky par-5s have disappeared from the game.

mygolfgarage
Jul 29, 2010, 10:09 AM
While I agree that it's unlikely, the ruling bodies could roll back technology if they wanted to. They froze the COR on drivers, and the just rolled back the technology of grooves.

Club heads now have some limits.

I think they need to do something to limit gains in yardage to only the golfer's athleticism and skill - that's what we really want to see and gape at at the pro level.

While some old courses can't support the logistics of a modern tournament, there are others that have fallen out of favour because they no longer play as designed. City courses (like St. Georges) are basically landlocked and cannot extent their yardage - and it's cheaper to limit the ball than to go moving bunkers around every 10 years as equipment gets better. It's us golfers that would pay for the changes to courses.

If I imagine a future in which the I can hit driver and wedge into most par 5s, and fly any legacy fairway bunkers - I don't think I'll be patting myself on the back saying "I da man!". Rather I think I'll be saddened that long, risky par-5s have disappeared from the game.Bravo!

Golden Bear
Jul 29, 2010, 10:32 AM
Apparently the balls are bright orange and say "DOCKS" on them. Wonder what that's all about.

johnha
Jul 29, 2010, 11:13 AM
According to the reports I've read, the desire is for a ball that compresses the distance range, affecting it more at higher speeds than at lower. That would indicate that the changes would target aerodynamics more than composition. If they can achieve this, a tour only ball would be unnecessary as we hacks would be affected less. Restricting the impact of technology is a common theme in most sports. The design of the javelin had to be changed in the eighties, because the athletes had reached the point where they were endangering competitors at the other end of the stadiums. Tennis rackets were restricted when exotic stringing designs raised ball speeds and made the game "serve and duck" instead of "serve and volley". I can't think of a sport where the equipment hasn't been restricted in response to advances in the arrows or the archers. I'm finding it hard to relate to guys who can reach six hundred yard holes in two and would welcome a distance drop to re-balance the challenge the pros face.

FATZ
Jul 29, 2010, 11:28 AM
Johna makes a good point.

In Lacrosse; NCAA changed rules regarding the head dimensions because players were getting away with sticks where the ball literally would not come out regardless of pocket depth and the sticks USED to abide by the old dimensions so no penalties could be given.

I think this makes sense considering I used to think of myself as a longer hitter but it seems in the last 6 years even hacks can hit 300 fairly easy and doing so when swinging Regular flex. On tour, I would assume it will be based on which courses are being played. But I think we are about to reach the plateau in golf technology, the question will be more based on your personal choice.

longirons
Jul 29, 2010, 11:35 AM
Apparently the balls are bright orange and say "DOCKS" on them. Wonder what that's all about.

this deserves at least one lol

makeitseven
Jul 29, 2010, 12:53 PM
On the PGA Tour, golf courses are being made unplayable because of the length due to technology. Courses are being lengthened to make the design relevant - perfect example is Augusta National, which is consistently lengthened to bring bunkers and other features back into play. There are many courses which are no longer used because they can't be lengthened.

As for "having more fun" because you can hit it 240 vs 220, I don't see how a longer drive provides more fun. I was under the impression that golf is about the score in relation to PAR not how far you hit the drive. As for Arnie's comment about non-conforming drivers, well let's just remember that he was under contract to Callaway at the time. There are many others, Jack Nicklaus for example, who believe that technology (ball and clubs) are not good for the game.


The PGA has been lengthening courses in an effort to increase the possibility of Tiger/Phil Sunday duals, no other reason. Think about it, they called it Tiger proofing but in reality....making a course longer favours the longer players only and when you make it long enough, the shorter part of the field is eliminated from contention.

The beginnning of "Tigerproofing" marked the end of contending at toutnaments for Toms, Dimarco, Pavin, Funk, Wier and on and on. eliminate all those guys and the odds go way up for a Tiger/Phil finish. Every time they shorten the set-up, all those guys all magically appear in the mix.

I may be accused of conspiracy theory here but then why did the so called "Tiger proofing" and lengthening also include a shortening of the rough ath U.S. Opens and PGA championships? Oh yah, so Tiger and Phil could drive it in 6-14 fairways on Sunday and win a U.S. open. When Payne Stewart one his last, he couldn't advance his ball more than 70 yds from the rough on 16 or 18. Now phil is hitting 5 irons out of the rough at a U.S. Open ?!? The MLB juiced up the ball and saved baseball. PGA is/was trying something similar.

ace in the hazard
Jul 29, 2010, 03:44 PM
I think some lose sight of the fact that ball technology is not the only factor that contributes to longer distance. Better conditioned golfers and club head technologies are two obvious contributing factors, among others. What would the governing bodies do about these?

Mandatory body fat minimums and bans on all weight training.

WILL
Jul 29, 2010, 06:39 PM
Mandatory body fat minimums and bans on all weight training.



I've been testing that for the tour as well. :D

Bellyhungry
Jul 29, 2010, 06:48 PM
I've been testing that for the tour as well. :D

I think you are the ideal throw-back player. ;)

ZachOly
Jul 30, 2010, 09:06 AM
Just roll the ball back 5-7% and be done with it

It's sad to see St. Andrews, at 7300 yards, basically turned into a pitch and putt while course ~6600 yards unsuitable for top quality am events.

snafu
Aug 1, 2010, 10:08 AM
On the PGA Tour, golf courses are being made unplayable because of the length due to technology. Courses are being lengthened to make the design relevant - perfect example is Augusta National, which is consistently lengthened to bring bunkers and other features back into play. There are many courses which are no longer used because they can't be lengthened.

As for "having more fun" because you can hit it 240 vs 220, I don't see how a longer drive provides more fun. I was under the impression that golf is about the score in relation to PAR not how far you hit the drive. As for Arnie's comment about non-conforming drivers, well let's just remember that he was under contract to Callaway at the time. There are many others, Jack Nicklaus for example, who believe that technology (ball and clubs) are not good for the game.Well said but you'll never convinvce the 'show' group of golfers that love to bomb it out there like the big boys do...

The over use of technology today has turned the game into a bit of a joke. I mean really, does anyone not laugh or roll their eyes at the idiots who tote their gps range finders around and pull them out on every hole it seems..? How about you use your eyes and brain to judge the distances..

What's next..Joe Hacker hitting 500yd bombs making par 5's on courses irrelevant?
Not to mention the costs of purchasing, building and maintaining a golf course which requires it be 7000 plus yards to handle the advance of technology in the game...

Call me a Luddite but I'd love to see golf being played like it used to be played. With no carts except for those who are elderly or handicapped, walking made mandatory with caddies available and equipment dialed back to where it was 20 yrs ago.

wlorcb
Aug 1, 2010, 11:16 AM
Well said but you'll never convinvce the 'show' group of golfers that love to bomb it out there like the big boys do...

The over use of technology today has turned the game into a bit of a joke. I mean really, does anyone not laugh or roll their eyes at the idiots who tote their gps range finders around and pull them out on every hole it seems..? How about you use your eyes and brain to judge the distances..

What's next..Joe Hacker hitting 500yd bombs making par 5's on courses irrelevant?
Not to mention the costs of purchasing, building and maintaining a golf course which requires it be 7000 plus yards to handle the advance of technology in the game...

Call me a Luddite but I'd love to see golf being played like it used to be played. With no carts except for those who are elderly or handicapped, walking made mandatory with caddies available and equipment dialed back to where it was 20 yrs ago.

Slacker!
bring back the hickory and the feathery

ZachOly
Aug 1, 2010, 02:29 PM
The over use of technology today has turned the game into a bit of a joke. I mean really, does anyone not laugh or roll their eyes at the idiots who tote their gps range finders around and pull them out on every hole it seems..? How about you use your eyes and brain to judge the distances..


I use my GPS on just about every shot. It's saved me countless strokes and thus speeding up my round. You should be happy we're not eyeballing everything...it would just make long rounds even longer.

Technology that speeds up the game = good
Technology that makes courses irrelevant = bad

I still can't get over the 350y 18th at The Open, maybe the easiest finishing hole ever?

Leftygolfer30
Aug 1, 2010, 04:58 PM
Well said but you'll never convinvce the 'show' group of golfers that love to bomb it out there like the big boys do...

The over use of technology today has turned the game into a bit of a joke. I mean really, does anyone not laugh or roll their eyes at the idiots who tote their gps range finders around and pull them out on every hole it seems..? How about you use your eyes and brain to judge the distances..

What's next..Joe Hacker hitting 500yd bombs making par 5's on courses irrelevant?
Not to mention the costs of purchasing, building and maintaining a golf course which requires it be 7000 plus yards to handle the advance of technology in the game...

Call me a Luddite but I'd love to see golf being played like it used to be played. With no carts except for those who are elderly or handicapped, walking made mandatory with caddies available and equipment dialed back to where it was 20 yrs ago.

Ok, you`re a Luddite.

:rolleyes:

snafu
Aug 1, 2010, 05:16 PM
Ok, you`re a Luddite.

:rolleyes:Ican live with that. Walking a course never took more than 4.25 hours 20 years ago.
Of course nowadays you have to have a cart to drive all that technology around to speed up a round.

Bellyhungry
Aug 2, 2010, 04:56 PM
^^^^

How about removing all those grand stands and TV towers around the greens so that when a players hit boyond the greens, they don't get free drops?