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brianfrench
Jul 28, 2010, 09:10 PM
Nicklaus was my god, with Watson, Trevino, et al the pretenders.
But after one more British Open, and dozens (hundreds) of videos of his last Master win, Watson's chip ins, Hogan's Alley, etc. and way too many falsely nostalgic comments from the commentators about the great old days, I'm tired of it.
Jack and they were great. But GIVE IT UP...
Todays golfers are way more fit, far better trained, and there are far more great ones today than at any time in the past.
THESE are the good old days and spare me the crotchety comments from the old farts and Tom Watson drawing diagrams on how to play a hole at St. Andrews. And please, no more shots of tears while walking across the Swilcan Bridge for the last time.

Leftygolfer30
Jul 28, 2010, 09:43 PM
Nicklaus was my god, with Watson, Trevino, et al the pretenders.
But after one more British Open, and dozens (hundreds) of videos of his last Master win, Watson's chip ins, Hogan's Alley, etc. and way too many falsely nostalgic comments from the commentators about the great old days, I'm tired of it.
Jack and they were great. But GIVE IT UP...
Todays golfers are way more fit, far better trained, and there are far more great ones today than at any time in the past.
THESE are the good old days and spare me the crotchety comments from the old farts and Tom Watson drawing diagrams on how to play a hole at St. Andrews. And please, no more shots of tears while walking across the Swilcan Bridge for the last time.

Why don't you just use your remote and change the channel? :rolleyes:

par72
Jul 28, 2010, 09:55 PM
As a youngen I kinda appreciate the rich tradition and histroy of the game.

The fact that it is still so revered and the great players of history can still walk the same course as the greats of today, I find quite cool.

torontodude
Jul 28, 2010, 10:30 PM
are you in a bad mood?

northernpro
Jul 28, 2010, 10:41 PM
different game..in different times...but still must get it in the hole in
least amt of strokes...:rolleyes:

mpare
Jul 29, 2010, 03:09 AM
BrianFrench, I could not disagree with you more. Golf is the only game in which the connection between the present and the past has more than nostalgic meaning. Senior golfers can, on occasion, still compete with younger ones. Watson's performance at last year's British Open is a good example.

Professional golf has maintained its link with its past and, more importantly, the past has maintained to some extent a living presence with the here and now much to be benefit of both its fans the the new crop of golfers. Why is this of any significance? Because it reminds all of us of the many contributions that were made by the previous generation. We are reminded of: their many skills (they worked the ball in a variety of ways a lot more than today's pros - Trevino is the best example); their respect for the game, and their respect for each other and the fans. In short, golf's past acts as a constant reminder to its present that this is a game played according to the rules by individuals with class.

Many of us who have followed this game for decades appreciate the evolution of the game and recognize that while many of the younger golfers have undoubted physical skills, they still have a lot to learn about winning consistently under pressure, something that Nicklaus, Trevino, Watson, and Player to name just four could certainly do.

laps
Jul 29, 2010, 05:30 AM
I love the tradition and history of golf, but Tom Watson is becoming annoying. I was surprised to hear that he is only 60, he looks, walks and talks like an old man of at least 75.


When i watch the British Open I want to watch that tournament and hear of the players competing that week with just a minimal amount of nostalgia thrown in. If we want a retrospective on some of the old guys there is always the History Channel.

I am also fed up with the staged pause and the wave on that bridge at St Andrews.

dekker
Jul 29, 2010, 06:30 AM
unfortunately or fortunately,depending on your mood, golf lends itself perfectly to the long good-bye.
That old bridge at St, Andrews reminds me of the mythological river Styx. Once crossed you never come back, except on the Golf Channel.

I look at all the old farts playing those early morning games, I know they'd rather be out there, in-spite Cialis, till they croak.
These same old crackers, keeping the drug companies and golf courses afloat, are our fathers without whom we might not be playing.

Now as for old tour players. They shoot horses don't they?:rofl::rofl:

brianfrench
Jul 29, 2010, 08:09 AM
Good one, Dekker. I brought this up with a golf buddy who is the most optimistic guy I know - if I were ever in a prison camp he'd be happy if there were maggots int he rice - and he agreed.
It's not the guys themselves - Bear, Watson, Miller, etc as much as the fawning golf announcers and producers who come up with these sentimental videos (Old Tom Morris impersonator with the brogue, etc.)
I love golf history and have a pretty good golf library and respect everyone who has played the game well under a lot of pressure. But spare me the syrupy videos.

ace in the hazard
Jul 29, 2010, 08:15 AM
I totally disagree. I'm remember watching those old guys with my Dad and that's an important part of the game for me. This is a little too similar to your thread on "Worst Job in Golf" about a son caddying for his father...starting to sense a pattern here??

Ignatius Reilly
Jul 29, 2010, 08:28 AM
I love the tradition and history of golf, but Tom Watson is becoming annoying. I was surprised to hear that he is only 60, he looks, walks and talks like an old man of at least 75.

When i watch the British Open I want to watch that tournament and hear of the players competing that week with just a minimal amount of nostalgia thrown in. If we want a retrospective on some of the old guys there is always the History Channel.

I am also fed up with the staged pause and the wave on that bridge at St Andrews.

I too want to watch live golf more than retrospectives - US tv loves the sentimental stuff (it makes watching the Olympics unbearable). And don't get me going about that horrid music at the Masters - too much syrup, not enough pancake there.

When I was younger, I thought the sentimental wave at the bridge was crap. I bunch of wizened old farts waving pathetically after a mediocre round. Then I got older, got a bit wizened myself, and watched the great golfers that I'd grown up admiring take their turn waving from the bridge. And I loved it. In another 20 years we'll be watching Tiger, Phil, then maybe Fowler or Villegas if they have long careers. Everyone young gets old and will retire - and I think for golfers, your final time at Augusta or St. Andrews must be pretty special.

Why do you think Watson is annoying? The guy has an incredible resume, and last year's Open was the sports story of the decade. (or nearly was...)

Petedv
Jul 29, 2010, 08:29 AM
Nahh ... you don't bother me ....:rolleyes:

johnha
Jul 29, 2010, 08:38 AM
You guys actually watch that much golf? I thought it was just a cover for an afternoon nap, like baseball or football.

"Sorry honey. I'd like to get the garage cleaned, but the Open is on..."

Pingnut
Jul 29, 2010, 08:40 AM
I feel ya.. whenever they do a big special piece on one of the old dudes - when they could be showing golf at one of the majors, I tune right out.. All the Nicklaus stuff was the worst.

par72
Jul 29, 2010, 08:45 AM
So is this the site you tell your wife you are on while watching porn? :rofl:



You guys actually watch that much golf? I thought it was just a cover for an afternoon nap, like baseball or football.

"Sorry honey. I'd like to get the garage cleaned, but the Open is on..."

makeitseven
Jul 29, 2010, 09:20 AM
Every time watson tees it up on the pga he beats a significant % of the top 100 players in the world. His current world golf ranking is 138. He is ranked ahead of people like Stuart Appelby, Nick O'hern, DJ Trahan and Boo Weekely. He has earned his postion so why so relectant to enjoy it. I am far less sick of him than the old farts who stumble around my course every day in a miserable mood, slowing play, hacking it up and complaining about everything.

rgk5
Jul 29, 2010, 09:26 AM
Nicklaus was my god, with Watson, Trevino, et al the pretenders.
But after one more British Open, and dozens (hundreds) of videos of his last Master win, Watson's chip ins, Hogan's Alley, etc. and way too many falsely nostalgic comments from the commentators about the great old days, I'm tired of it.
Jack and they were great. But GIVE IT UP...
Todays golfers are way more fit, far better trained, and there are far more great ones today than at any time in the past.
THESE are the good old days and spare me the crotchety comments from the old farts and Tom Watson drawing diagrams on how to play a hole at St. Andrews. And please, no more shots of tears while walking across the Swilcan Bridge for the last time.


If part of what you say is true, where are all today's "great ones"? Apart from Woods, Harrington, and Mickleson who is winning muliple majors?

As a comparison even though they are long retired are the accomplishments of football greats like Jim Brown, Tony Dorset and others diminshed just because age takes it toll?

Give us your current list of active "great ones". You will be hard pressed to find anyone under thirty with more than four to five wins, let alone majors.

xrox
Jul 29, 2010, 09:51 AM
I both agree and disagree. I like the wave goodbye moments (key word is "moments" :)) and standing ovations for the old guys…..etc What I can’t stand is the over contrived and lengthy sentimental pieces they produce like movies and then play them right in the middle of the action. And then they follow it with a lengthy interview that you’ve heard a thousand times before. At which point you realize you haven’t watched a golf shot for the past 20 minutes……..(sigh)

Thank you PVR inventors J

As for Watson, my opinion of him has soured just a little since the Tiger scandal. He just seems so sanctimonious all of a sudden. Obviously he had issues with Tiger's on course behaviour over the past 10 years so why use this opportunity to start mouthing off?

johnha
Jul 29, 2010, 10:04 AM
So is this the site you tell your wife you are on while watching porn? :rofl:

Nope, this is the site I'm on when my staff thinks I'm working on contracts. ;)

Bellyhungry
Jul 29, 2010, 02:12 PM
The History Channel comment is rather funny. Heehee.

brianfrench
Jul 29, 2010, 02:30 PM
I'm at par with Xrox - I love the great ones for what they did and the way they did it. I get slightly ill when the announcers try to milk it for all its worth. Yes thx to PVR inventors.
Great ones today? Ernie should be in the mix. But the calibre of the players one to 60 is phenominal.
And Watson had his own issues with the bottle when younger and in his day personal foibles were never reported. Hated him since he chipped in to beat Jack at Pebble.

par72
Jul 29, 2010, 02:42 PM
And Jack is notoriously the most miserable SOB on the planet.....

Even still all he does is backhandedly criticize anyone he can....I suggest reading about Jack how he handles his business to get the real idea of his personality.

I don't think it matters worth a lick...but Watson is Mother Theresa next to Nicklaus



I'm at par with Xrox - I love the great ones for what they did and the way they did it. I get slightly ill when the announcers try to milk it for all its worth. Yes thx to PVR inventors.
Great ones today? Ernie should be in the mix. But the calibre of the players one to 60 is phenominal.
And Watson had his own issues with the bottle when younger and in his day personal foibles were never reported. Hated him since he chipped in to beat Jack at Pebble.

Bentley01
Jul 29, 2010, 03:05 PM
And Jack is notoriously the most miserable SOB on the planet.....

Even still all he does is backhandedly criticize anyone he can....I suggest reading about Jack how he handles his business to get the real idea of his personality.

I don't think it matters worth a lick...but Watson is Mother Theresa next to Nicklaus

I never forgave Nicklaus, my childhood golf hero, for his comments about Casey Martin (remember him? He needed a cart to get around the course, but wasn't allowed to because it would give him "an unfair advantage"). Not long after, Nicklaus got a hip replacement, and lo and behold, there HE was using a cart. Even though the old timers are allowed to use carts, Nicklaus's comments were hypocritical.

That aside, I understand that Nicklaus and Watson are the best of friends.

xrox
Jul 29, 2010, 03:34 PM
I never forgave Nicklaus, my childhood golf hero, for his comments about Casey Martin (remember him? He needed a cart to get around the course, but wasn't allowed to because it would give him "an unfair advantage"). Not long after, Nicklaus got a hip replacement, and lo and behold, there HE was using a cart. Even though the old timers are allowed to use carts, Nicklaus's comments were hypocritical.

That aside, I understand that Nicklaus and Watson are the best of friends.My 4 year old daughter will face similar challenges to Casey Martin as she also has a vascular malformation in her foot (Casey had his entire leg involved). I will try and teach her she can do anything she puts her mind to in life and point to people like Casey to show that it is possible to succeed with disabilities.

dekker
Jul 29, 2010, 07:37 PM
And Jack is notoriously the most miserable SOB on the planet.....

Even still all he does is backhandedly criticize anyone he can....I suggest reading about Jack how he handles his business to get the real idea of his personality.

I don't think it matters worth a lick...but Watson is Mother Theresa next to Nicklaus

where did you hear or read this about Jack? I don't know anyone in any business who isn't a SOB, most days.:rofl: Even Mother Theresa was according to many who dealt with her.

makeitseven
Jul 30, 2010, 07:10 AM
Friends who served/dealt with Jack during his stay at the Banff Springs for the Telus skins game claim that Jack has become a diva of Mariah Carey/Elton John proportion. It's to bad, I don't get the impression he was always that way. There was an incident at the Presidents cup a few years ago which exposed this side of him well. I can't remember the exact circumstance but he was whining about himself and the U.S. players having to stay and sign autographs.

Bentley01
Jul 30, 2010, 07:27 AM
Friends who served/dealt with Jack during his stay at the Banff Springs for the Telus skins game claim that Jack has become a diva of Mariah Carey/Elton John proportion. It's to bad, I don't get the impression he was always that way. There was an incident at the Presidents cup a few years ago which exposed this side of him well. I can't remember the exact circumstance but he was whining about himself and the U.S. players having to stay and sign autographs.

Wonder if this type of behaviour has anything to do with having an animal nickname (Tiger, Golden Bear)? :D

Chriswalters0990
Jul 30, 2010, 08:36 AM
I feel it's about the respect for the game...
These players made golf what it is today, and now our players will make it what it will be tommorow...
Technology also factors in with why our players are better then those in the past...

I feel that by even starting a thread disrespecting golfers, and the history of the champions in the sport is pretty low.. and if i was you i would probably regret posting it.

Nicklaus was my god, with Watson, Trevino, et al the pretenders.
But after one more British Open, and dozens (hundreds) of videos of his last Master win, Watson's chip ins, Hogan's Alley, etc. and way too many falsely nostalgic comments from the commentators about the great old days, I'm tired of it.
Jack and they were great. But GIVE IT UP...
Todays golfers are way more fit, far better trained, and there are far more great ones today than at any time in the past.
THESE are the good old days and spare me the crotchety comments from the old farts and Tom Watson drawing diagrams on how to play a hole at St. Andrews. And please, no more shots of tears while walking across the Swilcan Bridge for the last time.

brianfrench
Jul 30, 2010, 09:40 AM
Chris - have a coffee. Are you the site censor now?
A lot of people have commented on this post - so obviously it has touched a vein.

s159
Jul 30, 2010, 11:01 AM
Yes. Jack seems like a real SOB, sure I don't know him personally, but he's the typical know it all... he seems to know everything about everything and everyone's golf game... Arnold Palmer on the other hand seems more humble and gracious about the whole thing. How many times they said "Jack's House, Jack's House" at that recent tournament..who cares.. fawkkk go fishing or something..

Anyone else watching Golf these days with the volume on MUTE? So much banter and non sense with North American Golf. Watch golf over in Europe and they're talking about the golf shot, not what the commentator did on the weekend or how that particular golfer is wearing some lame pants. All these tv personalities driving people away..just makes watching it irritating, a real shame.

s159
Jul 30, 2010, 11:07 AM
Why don't you just say it flat out.. he's a douche. As for Watson, dude he stood on that bridge wayyy too long, get on with it, I have to drain my god damn putt..that's what his playing partner must be thinking. Anyone with me?

mpare
Jul 30, 2010, 12:51 PM
Not me! ;)

Why don't you just say it flat out.. he's a douche. As for Watson, dude he stood on that bridge wayyy too long, get on with it, I have to drain my god damn putt..that's what his playing partner must be thinking. Anyone with me?

Bellyhungry
Jul 30, 2010, 01:07 PM
Not just golfers, but in real life....

On one hand, you have those seniors who gracefully walk into sunset and enjoy the accolades that come their way. In this camp, the poster child is The King.

On the other, you always have the curmudgeons who refuse to let go of their past glory, would not accept changes or anything new, and continue to complain about how the present is not as good as the good 'ol days.

We all know which group most people would gravitate towards.

I think Nicklaus is somewhere in between depending on the issues. But since he is the greatest golfer of all time, I will cut him some slack.

brianfrench
Jul 30, 2010, 02:05 PM
I'm a Jack guy - one of my coolest moments was on the 3rd tee at the Abbey and walked right to me and asked if I could see Gary on the practice green. After I got my jaw back in place I said nope, and he said thanks.
But one think about grumpy old men... they're grumpy. But not The King. Is there anyone else you would want to have a beer with more?

par72
Jul 30, 2010, 02:27 PM
I think you'd have to be the BIGGEST POS on the planet not to love Arnie.

That guy just oozes class.


I'm a Jack guy - one of my coolest moments was on the 3rd tee at the Abbey and walked right to me and asked if I could see Gary on the practice green. After I got my jaw back in place I said nope, and he said thanks.
But one think about grumpy old men... they're grumpy. But not The King. Is there anyone else you would want to have a beer with more?

Sinogirl
Jul 30, 2010, 08:28 PM
WOW...did we wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

You too will be an old fart one day...should we just store you away in a box also?

:confused:



Nicklaus was my god, with Watson, Trevino, et al the pretenders.
But after one more British Open, and dozens (hundreds) of videos of his last Master win, Watson's chip ins, Hogan's Alley, etc. and way too many falsely nostalgic comments from the commentators about the great old days, I'm tired of it.
Jack and they were great. But GIVE IT UP...
Todays golfers are way more fit, far better trained, and there are far more great ones today than at any time in the past.
THESE are the good old days and spare me the crotchety comments from the old farts and Tom Watson drawing diagrams on how to play a hole at St. Andrews. And please, no more shots of tears while walking across the Swilcan Bridge for the last time.

s159
Jul 30, 2010, 10:27 PM
Yes, they did this for "the game", they did that for "the game" but it's time to move on. Watching some old dude stand on a bridge for 10 minutes waving around like a ******, enough is enough move on. Make room for the new guys, it's time to make golf exciting again. Oh ya, and Ben Hogan clubs suck. Gold jacket, green jacket who gives a ****

Sinogirl
Jul 30, 2010, 10:56 PM
Yes, they did this for "the game", they did that for "the game" but it's time to move on. Watching some old dude stand on a bridge for 10 minutes waving around like a douche, enough is enough move on. Make room for the new guys, it's time to make golf exciting again. Oh ya, and Ben Hogan clubs suck. Gold jacket, green jacket who gives a shittt

UMMMM...and you have been golfing for how long?

mpare
Jul 31, 2010, 05:49 AM
Two weeks! :rolleyes:

UMMMM...and you have been golfing for how long?

s159
Jul 31, 2010, 08:54 AM
It's quite interesting how you automatically assume I'm a terrible golfer based on the way I choose to express myself. I'm pretty sure Happy Gilmore owned Shooter. You have no idea.

Anyways, this isn't about me, this is about those old farts..and I didn't start this thread.

brianfrench
Jul 31, 2010, 09:31 AM
Sino - I'm already an old fart. And grumpy.
Not as good as I once was, but as good as I was once...

mpare
Jul 31, 2010, 01:24 PM
And I'm 61 and hardly ever grumpy save when I miss a three foot putt. More to the point, I love playing against the "youngsters." I may lose from time to time, but my opponents will know they've been in a battle. ;)

Sino - I'm already an old fart. And grumpy.
Not as good as I once was, but as good as I was once...

Oakbridge
Jul 31, 2010, 02:14 PM
Say what you want about him, but one thing that I respect Nicklaus for was that when he felt he could no longer compete, he hung it up, save for some of the ceremonial Masters stuff (starter, par 3 contest).

How different is the wave from the bridge compared to an aging actor doing a cameo in a current movie or TV show. Some can be well done and/or great ideas (i.e. Nimroy in the last Star Trek), some can be pretty sad.

Or the "haven't had a hit song in 20 years" rockers who continue to tour. Sometimes it works out, saw James Taylor and Carole King a few weeks ago and enjoyed the show and their prices were reasonable. But then you have Bon Jovi putting tickets on sale almost a year ahead of the show, and charging outrageous prices.

Part of the problem is the equally aging fans who now have the disposable income to pay some of the foolish prices. In part, can you blame someone for cashing in, especially considering that many made a pittance during their actual playing days, compared to what they would have made in today's salaries and purses? Remember that Watson made 25% more for finishing second in last year's British open than he made in the entire 1980 season when he led in money won.

Perhaps the biggest problem is that with multiple 24 hour sports channels, a 24 hour golf channel, final round coverage for some tournaments that runs for 8 hours or more, there is much more material needed to fill the space in between shots. I love seeing a nice well produced sentimental piece. I hate seeing it multiple times.