Marking your ball

[Focker Singh]

Last week at Copetown Woods, I was playing with Openflows, Chiantibro and Waterisadrug. Openflows had a great question and I thought I would post it up since I havn`t seen him do it yet.

I was marking my ball on the green and noticed it was on the line of Chiantibro`s putt so I asked him if he wanted me to move my marker. I thought this was the proper thing to do as I`ve always asked this or have been asked this question. The question is, what is the proper ruling to this if any? Am I supposed to leave my marker and wait for Chiantibro to ask me to move it knowing that I could be in his line or do I still ask? The reason for this is, I could have potentially given advice to Chiantibro on what his line would be when he might have been reading another line. Therefore, do I get penalized for giving advice? We went on and determined that in a Match Play, this could very well be the case but in a casual round, its probably courtesy to ask. Anyone know the official ruling to this? I found this a very interesting question and would like to know.

[tjhayko]

In interested in knowing the the offical ruling is too. More often than not, I'll ask.

[hogannut]

Last week at Copetown Woods, I was playing with Openflows, Chiantibro and Waterisadrug. Openflows had a great question and I thought I would post it up since I havn`t seen him do it yet.

I was marking my ball on the green and noticed it was on the line of Chiantibro`s putt so I asked him if he wanted me to move my marker. I thought this was the proper thing to do as I`ve always asked this or have been asked this question. The question is, what is the proper ruling to this if any? Am I supposed to leave my marker and wait for Chiantibro to ask me to move it knowing that I could be in his line or do I still ask? The reason for this is, I could have potentially given advice to Chiantibro on what his line would be when he might have been reading another line. Therefore, do I get penalized for giving advice? We went on and determined that in a Match Play, this could very well be the case but in a casual round, its probably courtesy to ask. Anyone know the official ruling to this? I found this a very interesting question and would like to know.

If I remember correctly the player putting must ask for the mark to be moved, and the guy cannot volunteer to move it.

Last week at Copetown Woods, I was playing with Openflows, Chiantibro and Waterisadrug. Openflows had a great question and I thought I would post it up since I havn`t seen him do it yet.

I was marking my ball on the green and noticed it was on the line of Chiantibro`s putt so I asked him if he wanted me to move my marker. I thought this was the proper thing to do as I`ve always asked this or have been asked this question. The question is, what is the proper ruling to this if any? Am I supposed to leave my marker and wait for Chiantibro to ask me to move it knowing that I could be in his line or do I still ask? The reason for this is, I could have potentially given advice to Chiantibro on what his line would be when he might have been reading another line. Therefore, do I get penalized for giving advice? We went on and determined that in a Match Play, this could very well be the case but in a casual round, its probably courtesy to ask. Anyone know the official ruling to this? I found this a very interesting question and would like to know.

If I remember correctly he cannot volunteer to move the mark, he must be asked to move by his competitor.

[tjhayko]

Hogannut, you've got the hiccups ;) ;)

[hogannut]

Hogannut, you've got the hiccups ;) ;)

Ya...I know. When I posted it the first time I got a no page can be displayed message so I did it again!!:shhh:

[el tigre]

Last week at Copetown Woods, I was playing with Openflows, Chiantibro and Waterisadrug. Openflows had a great question and I thought I would post it up since I havn`t seen him do it yet.

I was marking my ball on the green and noticed it was on the line of Chiantibro`s putt so I asked him if he wanted me to move my marker. I thought this was the proper thing to do as I`ve always asked this or have been asked this question. The question is, what is the proper ruling to this if any? Am I supposed to leave my marker and wait for Chiantibro to ask me to move it knowing that I could be in his line or do I still ask? Since your ball is on the putting green, you do not have to ask to lift it or get permission to mark it to the side. The reason for this is, I could have potentially given advice to Chiantibro on what his line would be when he might have been reading another line. Therefore, do I get penalized for giving advice? We went on and determined that in a Match Play, this could very well be the case but in a casual round, its probably courtesy to ask. Anyone know the official ruling to this? I found this a very interesting question and would like to know. Marking your ball or asking if your ball should be lifted is not giving advice in the normal course of play. You would really have to go out of your way to mark at a particular spot in order to be penalized for indicating the line of play.

[goshawk]

In a casual round, it's just courteous to ask if you should move your marker. In tournament play or match play, the putter must ask for a ball marker to be moved, then all you need to do is ask which way (left or right). You're not giving him any assistance in determining the line he should take, especially if you ask "which way". It's up to the putter to let you know how to move it.

[Carlton]

That was a great question! Thanks for clearing that up Goshawk..

[Focker Singh]

In a casual round, it's just courteous to ask if you should move your marker. In tournament play or match play, the putter must ask for a ball marker to be moved, then all you need to do is ask which way (left or right). You're not giving him any assistance in determining the line he should take, especially if you ask "which way". It's up to the putter to let you know how to move it.

Perfect, thanks. In tournament play do I incurr a penalty for asking?

[goshawk]

Perfect, thanks. In tournament play do I incurr a penalty for asking?

If you're asking the other golfer to move his marker, no. There is no penalty listed in the RCGA Rules of Golf regarding moving a ball marker in relation to the line of putt of a fellow golfer. However, in the "spirit of the game", a 1-stroke penalty can be incurred if you are "assisting" a fellow player by initiating the movement by asking them which way to move it. What you are doing is helping them determine the line of the putt. This penalty would probably be levied by a "rules official" at a tournament.

[jayda]

just out of curiousity, let's say I'm putting, can I ask other player to mark their ball (ex. higher on a slope) so I can aim at? :D

[goshawk]

just out of curiousity, let's say I'm putting, can I ask other player to mark their ball (ex. higher on a slope) so I can aim at? :D

There's no reason why you can't ask him to move his marker either left or right. If you're going to use his marker as part of your aim line, there's no rule against that, but I would say it's going against the "spirit of the game". It would be like placing a tee on the green to use as an aim line, which is definitely illegal.

[chiantibro]

You may have noticed it didn't help my putting either way...

[goshawk]

You may have noticed it didn't help my putting either way...

HAHAHAH!! I do know the feeling. I had the same difficulties yesterday at Royal Ashburn. Lots of proper putting lines, not so many proper strokes!!

[el tigre]

just out of curiousity, let's say I'm putting, can I ask other player to mark their ball (ex. higher on a slope) so I can aim at? :D No you cannot. I have highlighted the relevant section of the rule:

8-2. Indicating Line of Play
b. On the Putting Green
When the player’s ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched. A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

IOW, you mark your ball to clean it and/or so it does not interfere with play - and you can (and should) position your marker so it does not interefere with play either. If you ask for a mark to be placed in a specific position to indicate a line for putting, it is a 2-stroke penalty.


If you're asking the other golfer to move his marker, no. There is no penalty listed in the RCGA Rules of Golf regarding moving a ball marker in relation to the line of putt of a fellow golfer. See Rule 8-2 above. However, in the "spirit of the game", a 1-stroke penalty can be incurred if you are "assisting" a fellow player by initiating the movement by asking them which way to move it. What you are doing is helping them determine the line of the putt. This penalty would probably be levied by a "rules official" at a tournament. The penalty for a breach of Rule 8 is two strokes. Moreover, it is very unlikely that a penalty would ever be assessed under Rule 8 in the situation you have described. Under the rules (my bold emphasis):

“Advice’’ is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.

IMHO, asking a FC or opponent which way to move your marker does not constitute a "counsel or suggestion".

[goshawk]

No you cannot. I have highlighted the relevant section of the rule:

8-2. Indicating Line of Play
b. On the Putting Green
When the player’s ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched. A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.



I'm not an RCGA rules official, but I'll try to clarify based on my training. What jayda was asking was for him to be able to ask another player to move his marker closer to jayda's line of putt. The other person isn't his partner or caddie, and jayda isn't going to move it himself. The other person is either a competitor or fellow golfer (casual round). If jayda indicated his line of putt and the other golfer places his ball (which I'm assuming is close to that line) closer to that line so jayda can use it as a "sight", there's no penalty for that. If that other golfer is jayda's partner, two-stroke penalty, period.

[jayda]

thanks for the clarification! just want to know my rights as a player...

[aaagc]

Just to get the basics right. See the note to 22-2 below.
22-1 Ball Assisting Play

Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that a ball might assist any other player, he may:
(a) lift the ball if it is his ball, or (b) have any other ball lifted.
22-2 Ball Interfering with Play

Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that the ball of another player might interfere with his play, he may have it lifted.
Note: Except on the putting green, a player may not lift his ball solely because he considers that it might interfere with the play of another player. If a player lifts his ball without being asked to do so, he incurs a penalty of one stroke for a breach of Rule 18-2a (http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules/rule18.html#18-2),