Women can play in the British Open

[Queen of the Beach]

So after 145 years the British Open championship organized by the Royal and Ancient Club is looking to changing its rules. Current rules state that the tournament, played this year at St. Andrews, is open to "any male professional or from a male amateur golfer whose playing handicap does not exceed scratch.'' The club has no qualms about changing it. Peter Dawson is the chief executive of the club and doesn't think the wording holds much purpose. Dawson stated he did not want to keep women out of the Open. Although the Royal and Ancient Club chief executive also said, "Not that I want to see the Open as a dual-sex event because golf at the elite level is not being played like that."

The change means pro women golfers like Annika Sorenstam and future pro? Michelle Wie can play at the British Open. Do you think it will make a difference in female participation? IMO I don't think it will change the participation of women in the British Open for the next few years.

[pudubny]

Queen,
It is no secret that Michelle Wie wants to compete against men in the US Amatuers because the winners of those events get an invite to The Masters. If she accomplishes that goal, don't be surprised if she works toward breaking the sex barrier at The Open as well. More power to her.

[Focker Singh]

This brings on the same debate on whether or not women should be allowed to play in PGA events. The Open however is like Augusta, its run by its own rules and commitee. Would be interesting to see what the ruling is. If anyone qualifies, let them play. Though in my opinion, I would like to see the men play with the men and the women play with the women. There's plenty of made for TV tourny's in Dec where the men vs women thing can go on. :hush:

The women have a British Open too, so why do they want to play with the men? I can understand Augusta, cause there's no Masters for the ladies.

[openflows]

For some people, the Open Championship is bigger than the Masters. It's about time that women are allowed to compete. Since it's not called the Men's Open Championship, it's just the Open Championshp. So if it's truly open, then for sure let the Women have equal chance to qualify.

[Mule56]

The women have a British Open too, so why do they want to play with the men? I can understand Augusta, cause there's no Masters for the ladies.
As soon as the men can play on the LPGA it will be less of an issue. Until then the moral majority wants it only one way. I say if you can qualify you can play. That includes men playing for the ladies money on the LPGA. If that's not acceptable, then things must remian the way they are now.
Mule

[Shadow]

As soon as the men can play on the LPGA it will be less of an issue. Until then the moral majority wants it only one way. I say if you can qualify you can play. That includes men playing for the ladies money on the LPGA. If that's not acceptable, then things must remian the way they are now.
Mule Let's get our heads out of the sand here. The LPGA Tour is for LADIES. L = LADIES. The PGA Tour is for the best players in the world. If one of the best players in the world happens to be a lady and she qualifies for the PGA Tour just like men or transsexuals do, then why would do you discriminate against her because she is (x, x)? I may be in the minority, but I would much rather watch Annika or Michelle play on the PGA Tour than Carl Paulson or Craig Perks.

[Mule56]

I may be in the minority, but I would much rather watch Annika or Michelle play on the PGA Tour than Carl Paulson or Craig Perks.Maybe they could play on the LPGA. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for it. If someone qualifies, let them play. My point is the street is slanted one way. The rights are to equal are they not? :confused:
Mule - who's head is not in the sand, but another part maybe.

[pudubny]

I must agree with Shadow on this one. To say that men should be allowed to play on the LPGA Tour is ludicrous, physically and biologically. It has nothing to do with "fair" and more about ignorance. The ladies need a tour where they can compete against each other and be protected against the physically stronger men who on average can severely out hit them.
Now that being said the charter of the PGA tour is the "best players". No sex mentioned here. If their is a women who can "qualify" to play against the men and compete, more power to them. That is in fact the goal of the Tour, to collect the best. If a women is amoung the best, she is welcome.
She must qualify, all these exemptions are putting marketing above the competition. But IF Michelle Wie continues to progress, she will qualify for men's events, most experts agree on that issue, and the men will accept that. Michelle and Annika are rare, they believe they are so exceptional that they do not want to limit themselves to playing against only women, but want to challenge the best, which happen to be men at this moment in our evolution. Now what excuse does a man have to compete against the LPGA. Most of the complaints centre around the women not having to qualify for these events with the men.
Don't mean to be insulting but no man has any business believing he should be allowed to compete on the LPGA Tour under any circumstances.
Pud.

[pudubny]

Mule,
As with the set-up of our whole society, our Constitution, our laws and our government struture itself. They ensure equality by protecting the minority, the weaker, and the poorer. Without protection, the LPGA would not exist if men decided to cross the gender line. The PGA Tour will not be threatened by this crossover. Equal rights does not mean in many circumstances that all parties can do the same unto each other.
Equality for instance in our society means that we must create laws insuring women get equal pay for equal work. Women need that protection as well because business is still dominated by men.
Is that equal, yes!
Please!!!!!!!!!

[Mule56]

Mule,
They ensure equality by protecting the minority, the weaker, and the poorer. Without protection, the LPGA would not exist if men decided to cross the gender line. The PGA Tour will not be threatened by this crossover. Equal rights does not mean in many circumstances that all parties can do the same unto each other.
Equality for instance in our society means that we must create laws insuring women get equal pay for equal work. Women need that protection as well because business is still dominated by men.
Is that equal, yes!
Please!!!!!!!!!
The ladies need a tour where they can compete against each other and be protected against the physically stronger men who on average can severely out hit them.
Thank you for agreeing with my point in both your responses. The LPGA is required to protect the ladies game. The PGA will not be threaten by this as long as qualifying is a requirement. You only get equal pay for equal work if you perform equally.
Mule

[pudubny]

No Mule,
I strongly disagree with most of your points.
You said,
"My point is the street is slanted one way."
I do not agree with that, the street is equal.
You also said,
"As soon as the men can play on the LPGA it will be less of an issue. Until then the moral majority wants it only one way."
I don't agree with any of that statement or anything it implies. It has nothing to do with the moral majority.
You also said:
"That includes men playing for the ladies money on the LPGA."
Shadow and myself disagree with that statement entirely.

You believe equality means men can play on the womens tour for which they can obviously qualify. We do not believe that is equality at all.
We do agree that women who play on the men's tour should qualify in the future. That is our only agreement. You believe that equality calls for men being able to play on the LPGA if they qualify, I could not disagree more.
Your statements clearly indicate your view of equality is that if women are allowed on the men's tour, men should be allowed on the womens tour. For example, if Michelle Wie QUALIFIES for the PGA Tour or The Open, that men should therefore be allowed to qualify for the Kraft Nabisco Champ.
Our view does not see men playing on the women's tour even if dozens of women qualify for the PGA Tour.
"Your point" is not just about women having to qualify, you made statements about equality that we strongly disagree with. You last post seems to try and diminish that stand, but you took it! Backpeddle all you want, it is in black in white.
Pud.

[Nocturnal]

If they're good enough to qualify then they deserve to play, it's really as simple as that. Like someone else mentioned it's the Open Championship not the Men's Open Championship.

[Mule56]

No Mule,
I strongly disagree with most of your points.
You said,
"My point is the street is slanted one way."
Correct, "Qualify" only one, that I can remember, has done that recently Joanne Whatley (sp???) The rest have been handed entrance based on corporate money.
I do not agree with that, the street is equal.
You also said,
"As soon as the men can play on the LPGA it will be less of an issue. Until then the moral majority wants it only one way."
Note the word "less".
I don't agree with any of that statement or anything it implies. It has nothing to do with the moral majority.
You also said:
"That includes men playing for the ladies money on the LPGA."
If you really think that will happen, and I believe it should, I have a piece of land for you.
Shadow and myself disagree with that statement entirely.

You believe equality means men can play on the womens tour for which they can obviously qualify.
Again read above. If (and that is a big if, in case you want that in black and white) the the branch was offered what argument do you think any one would have. How many men do youn think would do it. One or two novelties??
We do not believe that is equality at all.
Backpeddle all you want, it is in black in white.
Something I have never done in my life and am not about to do now. Before you go pulling the black and white thing out of the bag again, you might want to go back and read my posts on other topics relating to women and the PGA, You will notice my stand, with no back pedddling, is very clear, Qualify. Please don't assume to know me or my views on anything. On this one you are dead wrong. If am, and always have been in favour of people getting exactly what they are due and deserve regradless of gender, race or religon. If the were the case what would I assume you meant by this. "They ensure equality by protecting the minority, the weaker, and the poorer."

Mule

[pudubny]

Mule,
I don't think anyone assumes to say we know you. But everyone who reads your comments will interprut that way because that is what you write.

I noted the word "less" does not change it's meaning.

Whether what you propose will ever happen or not has nothing to do with the fact that YOU PROPOSE IT AS EQUAL OR FAIR. Which you clearly do.
Again in your latest post, you say:
"If you really think that will happen, and I believe it should, I have a piece of land for you."

You believe men should be able to play on the LPGA Tour. You think that is fair. You just said it again.
I do not assume to know you, but I can READ.
Again your posts has a strong emphasis on "Qualify". That is one issue, but you also state that men should also be able to play for the ladies money.

Do you BELIEVE men should be allowed to qualify and play on the LPGA Tour if women are allowed to qualify and play on the PGA Tour.

I believe your writing CLEARLY indicates you do believe that, e.g. "and I believe it should". I know you believe that it will never happen. We disagree with that idea of fairness.

Perhaps you did not clarify your thoughts, but we are not misinterpreting what you wrote.
Doesn't mean you are a bad guy, you are entitled to that opinion. I strongly disagree with your WRITTEN beliefs.

[Mule56]

Mule,
Again in your latest post, you say:
"If you really think that will happen, and I believe it should, I have a piece of land for you."

Pud, Pud Pud,
Can you answer yes to the two questions you quoted from me.
"If you really think that will happen, Note the comma
and I believe it should
If not, read sarcasm. If you answer no to the first one, then answer no to the second. Please note the "I have a piece of land for you". I could have been clearer and swamp land. Yes I realize both questions are in one sentence, but the English language does allow for that in its current form.
I thought that maybe you would get it. Now I find myself trying to explain sections of sentences, sarcasm and Archie Bunker wit. If everyone else read this the same way you did, then I will apologize to each of them. But please don't speak for them. They may have got it. Becasue you didn't doesn't mean your a bad guy.
I'm also not sure were your bad guy comment came from, but I wouldn't discredit me yet. Since you don't know me, I may be, and you would never know. Please, please, please, don't read any more into that then the tongue and cheek it was meant to be.
Mule

[pudubny]

"As soon as the men can play on the LPGA it will be less of an issue. Until then the moral majority wants it only one way. I say if you can qualify you can play. That includes men playing for the ladies money on the LPGA. If that's not acceptable, then things must remian the way they are now."

Mule,
Your original statement to Focker, above. Is that sarcasm?
Because that clearly indicates support for men playing for women's money on the LPGA Tour.

Instead of disputing our (Shadows and myself) interpretations of your obscure references to the "moral majority" etc. Can you simply state your beliefs in plain English.
If women earn spots on the PGA Tour, should men be able to play on the LPGA Tour?
Is it fair if women can play on the PGA Tour but men cannot play on the LPGA Tour?
If I misundertood your original comment, I apologize. But that does not read like sarcasm.
Now the bad guy comment, that reads like sarcasm!

I look forward to those answers.
Private email if you wish.
Pud.

[Shadow]

While we all understand the principle of equal rights and the reasons why we have them here in Canada, unlike the US**(See below) just because something is logical does not mean that it is right.(If women can play on the PGA Tour, men should be able to play on the LPGA Tour)

If the top 10 PGA Tour players were to play a full season on the LPGA Tour, they would likely finish #1 to #10 in every event. If the top 10 LPGA Tour players were to play a full season on the PGA Tour, they would not win a dime. Is it fair? Sure. Is it EQUAL? Yup. But, is there any common sense here? None whatsoever, and that is what is lacking.

Annika and Michelle have proven through the sponsors exemptions that they received, what most golfers predicted. The ladies are not good enough to play PGA Tour golf. I had hoped that the two would make their respective cuts and win some $$$, but they fell a little short. They measured their games against the Tour and found that they did not measure up. So be it. They can either work harder/become better and try it the Tour again or they can confine their games to their appropriate level of competition. But to suggest that VJ or Tiger should get exemptions to the LPGA Tour just because Annika and Michelle did to the PGA Tour, just defies common sense.

** My neice is a banker in a southern state. She makes less than a man in a comparable position and because she is married she makes less than a single woman, also in a comparable position. Makes equal pay for equal work in Canada, look good. Although, in the elementary school system, there are 5 different levels at which teachers can be, based on academic qualifications. Therefore, it is possible for 5 teachers to be doing the exact same job with the same number of years of experience, for 5 completely different levels of remumeration. Is this equal pay for equal work???

[Mok]

it's hard to distinct between sarcasm at times online.

let's move on now gentlemen :D