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Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

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  • #16
    Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

    And ...

    I am expecting the new Callaway Epic drivers will have a higher smash factor than has been seen to date with any other current generation club. Maybe something like 1.51 ???

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

      Originally posted by ctv1 View Post
      Increasing club face angle 1 degree will increase ball spin approx. 350 rpm. Spin is typically the enemy, more spin means more drag, more drag means less distance. (though not always, you need enough spin to keep ball in the air)

      Increasing angle of attack will always result in more distance (assumes if angle of attack gets too high you would then decrease driver loft and thus increase smash factor and hit it further)
      Aaahhh, now we are talking some real business here. Thanks so much for this excellent post of yours, really appreciated

      So would it be correct to say that that increasing launch angle is better done with increasing the Attack Angle, rather then increasing driver's Loft ?
      Last edited by veryold; Dec 20, 2016, 08:45 PM.
      “Golf is a game whose aim is to hit a very small ball into an even smaller hole, with weapons singularly ill-designed for the purpose”
      Winston S. Churchill

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

        Stop searching:

        http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/...r%20%20fitting


        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

          Originally posted by veryold View Post
          Aaahhh, now we are talking some real business here. Thanks so much for this excellent post of yours, really appreciated

          So would it be correct to say that that increasing launch angle is better done with increasing the Attack Angle, rather then increasing driver's Loft ?
          Yes technique is always better. As increasing attack angle increases launch and would actually decrease spin
          Driver---Cobra King F6+ (9.5) Aldila Tour Blue 75 S 43.75"
          3W------Cobra King F6 (14.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 42.65"
          5W------Cobra King F6 Baffler (17.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 41.75"
          3H-------Cobra King F6 (20.5) Fujikura Motore Speeder 9.8 TS S 39.4"
          DHY------Adams Super DHY (21) Matrix White Tie S 39.75"
          Irons------Titleist 714 AP2 4-PW C Taper S
          Wedges---Cleveland RTX 3 (52/MG 58/LG) C Taper S/KBS 610 Wedge S
          Putter-----Ping Cadence TR Sheah H w/ Flatso 1.0
          TLT'D @ Dans Custom Golf

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

            Originally posted by ctv1 View Post
            And ...

            I am expecting the new Callaway Epic drivers will have a higher smash factor than has been seen to date with any other current generation club. Maybe something like 1.51 ???
            Not legal. The max is 1.5. 1.51 can only be obtained on trackman due to the way it reads gear effect on toe hits or some crap (don't understand it but the guys on WRX explain it all the time)

            The jailbreak Tech is intended we assume to help keep 1.5 smash all across the face (or bigger) legally it can't get a higher COR
            Driver---Cobra King F6+ (9.5) Aldila Tour Blue 75 S 43.75"
            3W------Cobra King F6 (14.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 42.65"
            5W------Cobra King F6 Baffler (17.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 41.75"
            3H-------Cobra King F6 (20.5) Fujikura Motore Speeder 9.8 TS S 39.4"
            DHY------Adams Super DHY (21) Matrix White Tie S 39.75"
            Irons------Titleist 714 AP2 4-PW C Taper S
            Wedges---Cleveland RTX 3 (52/MG 58/LG) C Taper S/KBS 610 Wedge S
            Putter-----Ping Cadence TR Sheah H w/ Flatso 1.0
            TLT'D @ Dans Custom Golf

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

              Not legal. The max is 1.5. 1.51 can only be obtained on trackman due to the way it reads gear effect on toe hits or some crap (don't understand it but the guys on WRX explain it all the time)

              The jailbreak Tech is intended we assume to help keep 1.5 smash all across the face (or bigger) legally it can't get a higher COR


              I don't think you have this right.

              The Jailbreak tech permits more energy to be transferred to the ball, this increases ball speed and this increases smash factor. The more efficient transfer of energy is due to the increased structural integrity of the head. Less energy is wasted by having the clubhead bottom and crown flexing.

              This has nothing to do with COR, which essentially is the flexing of just the clubface. The Callaway drivers have the same (legal) COR or CT as everyone else.

              My point is what used to be the highest smash factor possible (The max is 1.5) has now changed.

              Callaway have done themselves a huge disservice by not publishing more information on these drivers. It is no wonder their is so much misunderstanding what it is they are doing. Right now the best info available is on their patent applications.
              Last edited by ctv1; Dec 20, 2016, 11:09 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

                So would it be correct to say that that increasing launch angle is better done with increasing the Attack Angle, rather then increasing driver's Loft ?

                Absolutely

                Think of it this way

                1) Lower club loft will have less of a glancing blow so it will go farther because more energy gets transmitted to the ball

                and

                2) Lower club loft means lower spin which results in more carry (less drag in the air) and more rollout. (Assuming there is at least enough spin to keep the ball in the air, this minimum spin rate varies based on swing speed, angle of attack and launch angle. The previously mentioned trajectory optimization programs can help determine what the ideal spin rate is.)

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

                  Originally posted by ctv1 View Post
                  So would it be correct to say that that increasing launch angle is better done with increasing the Attack Angle, rather then increasing driver's Loft ?

                  Absolutely

                  Think of it this way

                  1) Lower club loft will have less of a glancing blow so it will go farther because more energy gets transmitted to the ball

                  and

                  2) Lower club loft means lower spin which results in more carry (less drag in the air) and more rollout. (Assuming there is at least enough spin to keep the ball in the air, this minimum spin rate varies based on swing speed, angle of attack and launch angle. The previously mentioned trajectory optimization programs can help determine what the ideal spin rate is.)
                  Hey ctv1, thanks again for your great input here, much appreciated.
                  i guess, i'll be looking for an 8* driver and some 5" tees in the near future, lol
                  atb and cheers !
                  “Golf is a game whose aim is to hit a very small ball into an even smaller hole, with weapons singularly ill-designed for the purpose”
                  Winston S. Churchill

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

                    Originally posted by veryold View Post
                    Hey ctv1, thanks again for your great input here, much appreciated.
                    i guess, i'll be looking for an 8* driver and some 5" tees in the near future, lol
                    atb and cheers !
                    The problem with trying this veryold is if you don't generate enough ballspeed and spin your drive will look like it literally just falls out of the sky.

                    As you increase your angle of attack (higher tees for example) you lower spin and typically increase launch angle.

                    As you lower loft you lower Launch angle and lower spin.

                    Everyone is after low spinwhich is not needed unless you truly wanna optimize every single last yard.

                    There is such thing as too much spin (ballooning) and too little spin (knuckling) dependant on SS and ballspeed. For me (around 145-150 ball speed) this is around 2000-3100 spin. The difference in a shot with 2000 and 3000 is about 2 yards carry given same launch angle...

                    Also the best way to control spin is angle of attack ad impact location. If you look at that post earlier in the thread of the driver face and impact locations you will see.
                    Typically shots below the CG have increased spin. Above decreased
                    Typically heel shots have even more spin for less.

                    The lowest spin is usually slightly for side just above the CG (we're talking Millimeters though)
                    Also as we decrease spin gear effect becomes more apparent (shotswill
                    Curve further left or right based on the spin axis)

                    So unless you have a Swing speed north of 115-120mph it is Highly unlikely an 8* head will work for you with a positive angle of attack (if negative or neutral then sure)
                    Driver---Cobra King F6+ (9.5) Aldila Tour Blue 75 S 43.75"
                    3W------Cobra King F6 (14.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 42.65"
                    5W------Cobra King F6 Baffler (17.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 41.75"
                    3H-------Cobra King F6 (20.5) Fujikura Motore Speeder 9.8 TS S 39.4"
                    DHY------Adams Super DHY (21) Matrix White Tie S 39.75"
                    Irons------Titleist 714 AP2 4-PW C Taper S
                    Wedges---Cleveland RTX 3 (52/MG 58/LG) C Taper S/KBS 610 Wedge S
                    Putter-----Ping Cadence TR Sheah H w/ Flatso 1.0
                    TLT'D @ Dans Custom Golf

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

                      @V.O
                      A decade ago, and more, the thrust with drivers was to combine a board "tour" stiff shaft with a 7.5 loft . Since all parameters were going in one direction this "tour "driven fitting proved to be too much for the average guy with a 85mph driver swing.

                      IMO, if you are going with low loft, find a suitable shaft with an active tip, that, aside from the +AoA, will assist in increasing the dynamic loft at impact.

                      OTOH, when you loft up,(10+) try shafts that are butt soft, mid-section firm to stiff, and a stiff tip.

                      This is just my personal view,so garnish it with kosher sea salt.
                      Things change.

                      Ping i25, PWR75 s
                      Ping i25 3w Tour65 s
                      Miz 21Fli-Hi Gblue s
                      TA 845s GDs300
                      Clev588 53,57
                      Cal i-Trax

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

                        Hey bl8d and Jasonp, thanks for all your wonderful and instructive comments here, very much appreciated

                        Well, re. 8* was a bit tongue-in-cheek comment, ***BUT***, if i don't crock out during Winter, and am still able to "swing it" next Season, i'm going to do an exhaustive test on this topic, on a real golf course. Mainly, with a, say 12*-13*, vs. 8*-9* drivers, and variety of tee heights and ball positions. This will be great fun to do.

                        Cheers !
                        Last edited by veryold; Dec 21, 2016, 09:50 AM.
                        “Golf is a game whose aim is to hit a very small ball into an even smaller hole, with weapons singularly ill-designed for the purpose”
                        Winston S. Churchill

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

                          Remember to factor in head and shaft design.

                          Most modern heads even Tour pros are playing with 9.5*+ of loft. And they have a SS of 112+ typically and around an AOA of +1 at least.

                          So there very well may be a head that is 8.5* and fits u whereas another driver with the same shaft u may need 12*+ so factor that into ur testing
                          Driver---Cobra King F6+ (9.5) Aldila Tour Blue 75 S 43.75"
                          3W------Cobra King F6 (14.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 42.65"
                          5W------Cobra King F6 Baffler (17.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 41.75"
                          3H-------Cobra King F6 (20.5) Fujikura Motore Speeder 9.8 TS S 39.4"
                          DHY------Adams Super DHY (21) Matrix White Tie S 39.75"
                          Irons------Titleist 714 AP2 4-PW C Taper S
                          Wedges---Cleveland RTX 3 (52/MG 58/LG) C Taper S/KBS 610 Wedge S
                          Putter-----Ping Cadence TR Sheah H w/ Flatso 1.0
                          TLT'D @ Dans Custom Golf

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

                            Originally posted by Jasonp View Post
                            Remember to factor in head and shaft design.
                            Head "yes, absolutely", shaft, well, i got BLASTED couple of years ago, with my comments on the "non-importance" of shafts, as confirmed by Mark Crossfield in his series of three vids on this subject, so i'll keep my mouth shut on the shaft subject for ever, at least on these forums, lol
                            So, on head design, and PLEASE, this is NOT AN AD, i have accumulated 3 drivers by Nike, all same Sumo model, same R shafts, but different lofts:
                            1. 10*
                            2. 13*, aka Lucky 13
                            3. 16*, aka sweet 16

                            As mentioned, it's going to be a very interesting test next Summer.

                            Cheers !
                            “Golf is a game whose aim is to hit a very small ball into an even smaller hole, with weapons singularly ill-designed for the purpose”
                            Winston S. Churchill

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

                              Originally posted by veryold View Post
                              Head "yes, absolutely", shaft, well, i got BLASTED couple of years ago, with my comments on the "non-importance" of shafts, as confirmed by Mark Crossfield in his series of three vids on this subject, so i'll keep my mouth shut on the shaft subject for ever, at least on these forums, lol
                              So, on head design, and PLEASE, this is NOT AN AD, i have accumulated 3 drivers by Nike, all same Sumo model, same R shafts, but different lofts:
                              1. 10*
                              2. 13*, aka Lucky 13
                              3. 16*, aka sweet 16

                              As mentioned, it's going to be a very interesting test next Summer.

                              Cheers !
                              to make the test meaningful you should have shafts that vary in flex.
                              Things change.

                              Ping i25, PWR75 s
                              Ping i25 3w Tour65 s
                              Miz 21Fli-Hi Gblue s
                              TA 845s GDs300
                              Clev588 53,57
                              Cal i-Trax

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

                                Originally posted by veryold View Post
                                Head "yes, absolutely", shaft, well, i got BLASTED couple of years ago, with my comments on the "non-importance" of shafts, as confirmed by Mark Crossfield in his series of three vids on this subject, so i'll keep my mouth shut on the shaft subject for ever, at least on these forums, lol
                                So, on head design, and PLEASE, this is NOT AN AD, i have accumulated 3 drivers by Nike, all same Sumo model, same R shafts, but different lofts:
                                1. 10*
                                2. 13*, aka Lucky 13
                                3. 16*, aka sweet 16

                                As mentioned, it's going to be a very interesting test next Summer.

                                Cheers !
                                That will be a decent test. But what do u plan on doing? If u just hit them on a hole it's gonna be hard to tell which carries further then the other and which rolls further.

                                I remember playing a round once with this retired gentleman. Good golfer and his drive was a very consistent low push draw. The thing carried a max of 150y but rolled another 50+ yards. However there were a few holes (uphills or one where Fairway were damp/soft still) he got no roll at all.

                                So you may wanna try to test with a friend on course to help determine max carry.

                                As for crossfields shaft video I have seen the video ur talking about. I understand what he's saying and agree. Just because a shaft is low Launch and low spin it may not actually do that for a given player and may be actually higher spin and launch then a mid/mid design because the way a shaft feels/flexes will influence the way you swing it. So shafts do matter.
                                Driver---Cobra King F6+ (9.5) Aldila Tour Blue 75 S 43.75"
                                3W------Cobra King F6 (14.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 42.65"
                                5W------Cobra King F6 Baffler (17.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 41.75"
                                3H-------Cobra King F6 (20.5) Fujikura Motore Speeder 9.8 TS S 39.4"
                                DHY------Adams Super DHY (21) Matrix White Tie S 39.75"
                                Irons------Titleist 714 AP2 4-PW C Taper S
                                Wedges---Cleveland RTX 3 (52/MG 58/LG) C Taper S/KBS 610 Wedge S
                                Putter-----Ping Cadence TR Sheah H w/ Flatso 1.0
                                TLT'D @ Dans Custom Golf

                                Comment

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