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TGN golf course rating

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  • #16
    Re: TGN golf course rating

    An idea from the past rather than listing ALL the courses, Ontario has about 400, set up a blank formatted Spread Sheet with the various categories to be included.
    No need having courses on the list that nobody at TGN ever plays.
    Then each person could add the course they visited and rate it, as the list grows somebody will attempt to add a course a second time, so a built in buffer would be needed to stop duplicate listing of the same courses. To insure this make sheet with cells that can only be changed by the "Sheet Master".
    Then use columns that allow a rating for each category with say choice of 1-100 for each category. Spread Sheet would total points from all categories and average them out in the final column for the overall rating for each course.
    Comments could be done separately with a link to that spot located remotely on the same sheet.

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    • #17
      Re: TGN golf course rating

      Originally posted by davepratt View Post
      I was thinking that with some of the silly results on course ratings that publications like Score golf are putting out I believe that with the sheer volume of golfers on this site, we could take a much more accurate and representative survey on GTA courses.
      I don't know how to set it up, but I'm willing to collect the data if someone has an idea on how to do it.
      Hey Dave - is the idea to have a final published list with ratings for that moment in time, or an ongoing dynamic system that constantly gets updated with user data to reflect changes in ratings over time? You know when you look up a product online and they have a star rating next to it? That's just an aggregate of very simple ratings (usually 1-5 stars) but the good thing is ratings will go up or down over time instead of a published rating that could be years out of date. It might be more complicated with the various categories but I'm sure it can be done.
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      • #18
        Re: TGN golf course rating

        Originally posted by bogey5 View Post
        Interesting idea. But IMO you need to determine what you want rated. A list of best courses is different than a list based on perceived value when $$$ is included. If Annandale offered a free beer per 9 it might rocket up the best value list. It wouldn't be a better course, it might just seem better to some. Or maybe not.
        I was thinking the same. There's a big difference between best course and best value public course. If you're just looking at public courses, it's pretty easy to make that list. If you Include privates, access is the issue and most don't have it, so can't comment.
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        • #19
          Re: TGN golf course rating

          Originally posted by Shankopotamus View Post
          I was thinking the same. There's a big difference between best course and best value public course. If you're just looking at public courses, it's pretty easy to make that list. If you Include privates, access is the issue and most don't have it, so can't comment.
          Even if only public Eagles Nest would rank higher than Remington Parkview on a GTA best course list but Parkview would likely beat EN on a list of best value courses if fees are included and weighted the same as other criteria. Both would be valid rankings on different lists.

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          • #20
            Re: TGN golf course rating

            My suggestions regarding factors to weigh:
            • Conditioning
            • Pace of play
            • Playability
            • Practice facilities
            • Lay-out/esthetics
            • Facilities (dressing rooms/showers/restaurant)
            • Location/ease of access
            • Walkability
            • Value for money

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            • #21
              Re: TGN golf course rating

              Originally posted by bogey5 View Post
              Even if only public Eagles Nest would rank higher than Remington Parkview on a GTA best course list but Parkview would likely beat EN on a list of best value courses if fees are included and weighted the same as other criteria. Both would be valid rankings on different lists.
              Maybe I'm a snob but any list that has remington ahead of EN is placing way too much emphasis on value. I'd rather play eagles nest twice a year than play remington 25 times.
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              • #22
                Re: TGN golf course rating

                Originally posted by Shankopotamus View Post
                Maybe I'm a snob but any list that has remington ahead of EN is placing way too much emphasis on value. I'd rather play eagles nest twice a year than play remington 25 times.
                Yes, you're a Snob...that wouldn't be playing much golf!

                Lower your expectations, as I did, and enjoy playing 'lesser' quality courses, whilst saving $$.
                Every great idea starts out as a blasphemy

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                • #23
                  Re: TGN golf course rating

                  Originally posted by Big Shooter View Post
                  Yes, you're a Snob...that wouldn't be playing much golf!

                  Lower your expectations, as I did, and enjoy playing 'lesser' quality courses, whilst saving $$.
                  Not even a huge fan of EN, it's too hard to be enjoyable, but I've only been once. Bad example maybe. What I'm trying to say is value is very subjective. A lot depends on how thrifty you are. Some are happy to spend more on better courses, and some would rank a cow pasture best course in the world because it only charges a $20 greens fee. How people decide to spend their money should have nothing to do with which courses are best. Also, location has a big impact on price, so if you live on the outskirts of the GTA your idea of value woukd be very different compared to if you live downtown. I say rank the courses in terms of quality, and let people decide for themselves if the price is right.
                  Last edited by Shankopotamus; Dec 26, 2016, 05:59 PM.
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                  • #24
                    Re: TGN golf course rating

                    Originally posted by Shankopotamus View Post
                    Not even a huge fan of EN, it's too hard to be enjoyable, but I've only been once. Bad example maybe. What I'm trying to say is value is very subjective. A lot depends on how thrifty you are. Some are happy to spend more on better courses, and some would rank a cow pasture best course in the world because it only charges a $20 greens fee. How people decide to spend their money should have nothing to do with which courses are best.
                    I agree partially however.

                    Value does make a difference. To me a course can only be "so nice" and after a certain price point your just paying for a name. Sure its nice but meh. I find a course like "The Briars" much nicer then say Eagles Nest. Heck I found Cardinal Redcrest as nice. And I think eagles is a great course. However I'd never pay for it given the other options I can get in 2-3 other rounds at that price.

                    And as a guy who does enjoy 20$ rounds... I've had 20$ rounds I thoroghly enjoy at some cow patties that are well maintained but not particularly memorable.

                    So value is important IMO. I agree it shouldn't be the end all and be all. I am a person who doesn't mind spending more to get more enjoyment and value out of it. However I've also played "nice layout" courses and their conditions were meh. (Likely due to weather and long dry spells) but given the choice I'd take the less memorable course with better conditions.
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                    • #25
                      Re: TGN golf course rating

                      Originally posted by Jasonp View Post
                      I agree partially however.

                      Value does make a difference. To me a course can only be "so nice" and after a certain price point your just paying for a name. Sure its nice but meh. I find a course like "The Briars" much nicer then say Eagles Nest. Heck I found Cardinal Redcrest as nice. And I think eagles is a great course. However I'd never pay for it given the other options I can get in 2-3 other rounds at that price.

                      And as a guy who does enjoy 20$ rounds... I've had 20$ rounds I thoroghly enjoy at some cow patties that are well maintained but not particularly memorable.

                      So value is important IMO. I agree it shouldn't be the end all and be all. I am a person who doesn't mind spending more to get more enjoyment and value out of it. However I've also played "nice layout" courses and their conditions were meh. (Likely due to weather and long dry spells) but given the choice I'd take the less memorable course with better conditions.
                      I'm not saying value doesn't make a difference, of course it does. But it would be easy to see where a course ranks in terms of quality, then look at the price, and determine if it is good value. Including value in a ranking will greatly skew the ranking. Like was said before, there are those that would say "I wouldn't go to Remington if you paid me" and those that will say "I love it, it's cheap!".

                      Conditions are hard to judge too. They can depend on the time of year, recent weather conditions, etc. Some courses are great one day, so so the next, then great again a few days after. If the group in front of you doesn't rake the bunkers or fix their ball marks, do you factor that in? If you play in the morning vs in the afternoon conditions can be different even. If you think about it, a great golf course can be poorly maintained, and that would impact value, but it does not mean it isn't a great golf course. The architect shouldn't be punished because the greenskeeper sucks.

                      The best way to rank courses is by comparing scenic beauty, shot values, diversity of holes and terrain, routing, drainage, fairness, and fun. Essentially the overall quality of the design. We will have the best chance of agreeing on those things.

                      I know a course that is maintained by a wealthy gentleman who lets people play for free. It's only 5 holes, but who cares, it's free! Should it be #1?
                      Last edited by Shankopotamus; Dec 26, 2016, 06:32 PM.
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                      • #26
                        Re: TGN golf course rating

                        I think there is a reason why most lists have a value ranking in addition to the regular rankings.. but to me things like location, facilities, walkability, value etc. Shouldn't really factor into how good a golf course is.
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                        • #27
                          Re: TGN golf course rating

                          Originally posted by Pingnut View Post
                          I think there is a reason why most lists have a value ranking in addition to the regular rankings.. but to me things like location, facilities, walkability, value etc. Shouldn't really factor into how good a golf course is.
                          • Walkability: if a course is not walkable then it is probably more expensive and there are doubts that the architect has made the best possible use of the property.
                          • Facilitie: Not everyone is a trunk slammer.
                          • Location: Well how far would you drive to play? Or is it worth the drive. And a course like Richmond Hill although not a favourite is successful primarily because of its location.
                          • Value: How often would you play a fantastic course if the fee is $150+? What about a $35 course that is well maintained and fun to play? Although value may be the most subjective due to one's personal circumstances.
                          • Scenic beauty: I agree however how would someone then rank The Old Course at St Andrews?
                          • Shot values: Sorry not quite sure how you define this?
                          • Diversity of holes: Agree but some courses have a theme.
                          • Terrain: Goes to esthetics? I for one enjoy at least one elevated tee.
                          • Routing: Goes to walkability?
                          • Drainage: Show in the conditioning
                          • Fairness, and fun: equals playability?

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                          • #28
                            Re: TGN golf course rating

                            Originally posted by Arthur Dailey View Post
                            • Walkability: if a course is not walkable then it is probably more expensive and there are doubts that the architect has made the best possible use of the property.
                            • Scenic beauty: I agree however how would someone then rank The Old Course at St Andrews?
                            Just because you can't walk a course doesn't mean it isn't the best use of the property possible. Some properties simply don't allow for walkable courses.

                            I find beauty in contours so TOC is one of the most scenically beautiful courses I've ever played. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so I have no idea why this category would even matter.

                            I don't believe TGN can come up with a valid rating of golf courses as I don't believe there are enough people with a wide enough variety of courses played or who have played enough courses to make a really informed opinion. That said, I do believe TGN can make a VALUE rating for GTA courses.

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                            • #29
                              Re: TGN golf course rating

                              Originally posted by AverageJoe View Post
                              I don't believe TGN can come up with a valid rating of golf courses as I don't believe there are enough people with a wide enough variety of courses played or who have played enough courses to make a really informed opinion. That said, I do believe TGN can make a VALUE rating for GTA courses.
                              ^^^^

                              I agree with all 3 points wholeheartedly.

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                              • #30
                                Re: TGN golf course rating

                                Originally posted by AverageJoe View Post
                                Just because you can't walk a course doesn't mean it isn't the best use of the property possible. Some properties simply don't allow for walkable courses.

                                I find beauty in contours so TOC is one of the most scenically beautiful courses I've ever played. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so I have no idea why this category would even matter.

                                I don't believe TGN can come up with a valid rating of golf courses as I don't believe there are enough people with a wide enough variety of courses played or who have played enough courses to make a really informed opinion. That said, I do believe TGN can make a VALUE rating for GTA courses.
                                Walkability should be a factor, but not tied to "use of land".

                                Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but I don't think many would have trouble picking the more attractive between Banff Springs and Rolling Hills. And with many raters, the cream will rise to the top despite individual preferences.

                                I do think TGN can come up with ratings that are valid for TGN, even if they would be different than the ratings a golf course architects or professionals might come up with. And the ratings might even turn out to be the most appropriate for us. I think "value" might be one of the least agreed-upon factors. Some people have very odd different ideas about that.
                                Originally posted by Bellyhungry View Post
                                ^^^^

                                I agree with all 3 points wholeheartedly.
                                As you can see, I don't.

                                I'll go way out on a limb here and say we'll never reach a consensus on which factors are most important here on TGN.

                                Back in the days when I designed medical systems, if we couldn't get consensus from the users on an item, we would make it something they could adjust for themselves.

                                So.... you could set up a rating system where you rate each factor out of ten and then apply a weighting to each factor - like "playability" is worth 5, but "value" is worth 10 and "facilities" are worth 3.

                                That would give you a default ranking for all the courses. THEN you could allow users to set their own weightings - like making value worth 1 and facilities worth 10 and resort the list to make your own personal rankings.

                                Prolly to difficult to i) create and ii) understand....
                                Confusion will be my epitaph
                                ...Iggy

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