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CGTF vs. CPGA

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  • CGTF vs. CPGA

    Canadian Golf Teachers Federation vs. Canadian Professional Golf Association

    so how does one qualify for either?
    which one has been around longer?
    what does the certifcation allow you to do besides teach golf?

    so can anyone give us a comparison? maybe this can be question of the week...

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mok
    Canadian Golf Teachers Federation vs. Canadian Professional Golf Association

    so how does one qualify for either?
    which one has been around longer?
    what does the certifcation allow you to do besides teach golf?

    so can anyone give us a comparison? maybe this can be question of the week...
    Mok,

    It's exactly as I posted in the previous thread:

    CPGA is the "official" Canadian professional golf association. It is the true certification and recognized at most reputable places. You won't walk into a good practice facility or half decent course and find a CGTF teacher there, for example. You need to pass your PT's (Playing Test) to become a CPGA instructor. It requires you to shoot a combined score of 156 over two rounds.

    CGTF is the "unofficial" Canadian (I won't even call it professional) golf association. Because the field is not regulated, basically anybody can start up their own association and start teaching golf if they wanted to. You usually find CGTF instructors at small driving ranges. And yes, they usually charge a lot less than CPGA instructors. This is what I mean by undercutting CPGA business. CGTF has their own version of PTs which require their candidates to shoot a score of 83-85 or something like that. CGTF could have excellent instructors, I don't doubt that. But I would question why someone would choose NOT to obtain their CPGA because of the obvious benefit: recognition amoung the pro golf community around the world and play golf free for the time you have your card! A CPGA professional is the same as a PGA professional in the states (teaching professional). There is worldwide qualification and recognition. CGTF? sorry... but you have to pay for your golf just like everybody else because you're unrecognized.

    We could start a TGNTF (Toronto Golf Nuts Teachers Federation) and even though some of us *might* be better teachers than some CPGA instructors, does that make us qualified? Or recognized?

    Golf is one of those sports where everybody is a teacher at some point (i.e., teaching a friend, etc.) If you are going to pay money for lessons, however, I believe in paying the certified professional.

    Hope this helps. I ain't knocking CGTF instructors personally, I'm just commenting generally on my opinions on the field.

    Kevin
    WITB:
    Driver: Cleveland Classic 290(Miyazaki)
    3W: Callaway XR Pro 3 Deep 14* (Diamana 70 I'Lima)
    2H: Adams Pro Gold(Matrix Ozik Altus)
    4-PW: Callaway X-Prototype (Aerotech Steelfiber I95)
    56: Callaway X-Forged (Dynamic Gold)
    60: Callaway X-Forged (Rifle Spinner)
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport Mid Slant Pro Platinum

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow, definitely didn't know that....thx for the info!
      Feherty: " 270 to carry the water, you might want to lay up SnowFlake "

      Comment


      • #4
        hey kev, thanks for the info, definitely very informative...if anyone else has anything to say about these two associations, please feel free to post it! i am very interested in this, in fact i am going to look up a lil more info and let everyone else know what i find.

        Comment


        • #5
          A CPGA member/instructor is certified and qualified to do more than just teach golf. They are trained to run a golf business. Teaching is just a part of the certification. This is why there are 3-year certification programs available at colleges.

          In reply to Special K comment - "But I would question why someone would choose NOT to obtain their CPGA because of the obvious benefit: recognition amoung the pro golf community around the world and play golf free for the time you have your card! A CPGA professional is the same as a PGA professional in the states (teaching professional). There is worldwide qualification and recognition."

          I do not believe that not too many of us can afford to re-invest 3 years at a college and/or have the financial resources to do so. If you are in this category and wish to become a certified instructor to learn how to teach the basic fundamental golf skills to the beginners of the game, than CGTF might be a more feasible solution.

          As for my opinion on the topic of which organization provides more qualified instructors. This is a never ending debate! It all depends on who you ask a CPGA or a CGTF instructor : )

          Every instructor has their own teaching method, this is a direct result of their teaching experience and learning over many years in the profession. I would definitely recommend that you ask your friends or colleagues that have taken golf instruction for their opinions.
          No more 5.5 to 6 hrs. golf rounds in T.O.! Everyone is on the clock.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

            is it true there is a difference CPGA club makers and CPGA instructors?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

              Hi The difference from CPGA and CGTF is the CPGA is a 3 year course or 1 year for a mature student that already has credits and the CGTF is a 1 week course for anyone. There is people that put down the CGTF because they think that they are out there to under cut the CPGA on golf lessons. The CGTF are told not to undercut other peoples rates cause that is unprofessional. Whether they do or not that is up to the individual. The CPGA is not just FREE golf I know some golf courses that charge the CPGA to play their courses. This is not a LIE I guarantee it. I can go on for hours and keep writing about the differences. If you want to find out more about these 2 professions look up www.cgtf.com or www.usgtf.com or www.cpga.com or www.ontariopga.com and you can see that the CGTF is not some Mickey Mouse teaching federation. Whoever has negative things about either is up to the individual. Sure there is some people that should not be affiliated in either but that is part of life.
              PING G5 9* Graffaloy PROTO X Comp NT
              Tour Edge Exotics 15* Adilia NV S
              Adams Tour Prototype 18*
              PING Answer 4-PW Rifle PX 6.0
              Titleist 50, 54, 60
              PING Redwood Answer
              PRO V1 X

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

                Originally posted by Benny
                Hi The difference from CPGA and CGTF is the CPGA is a 3 year course or 1 year for a mature student that already has credits and the CGTF is a 1 week course for anyone. There is people that put down the CGTF because they think that they are out there to under cut the CPGA on golf lessons. The CGTF are told not to undercut other peoples rates cause that is unprofessional. Whether they do or not that is up to the individual. The CPGA is not just FREE golf I know some golf courses that charge the CPGA to play their courses. This is not a LIE I guarantee it. I can go on for hours and keep writing about the differences. If you want to find out more about these 2 professions look up www.cgtf.com or www.usgtf.com or www.cpga.com or www.ontariopga.com and you can see that the CGTF is not some Mickey Mouse teaching federation. Whoever has negative things about either is up to the individual. Sure there is some people that should not be affiliated in either but that is part of life.
                Well if they're told not to undercut CPGA pros, why is it that almost every single one of them charges less than what CPGA pros charge? Well I believe the answer to that is that CGTFs, usually operating out of small driving ranges, etc. do not have the clientelle to charge $90 an hour. They are thus, forced to undercut CPGA pricing. Tell me Benny since you wish to defend them so vigilantly. When was the last time you found a CGTF instructor at a half decent golf course or practice facility?

                It is also true that CPGA's have to pay to play some courses. However, there is that comraderie and international recognition that exists and CPGAs do NOT have to pay for many courses around the world. If they do have to pay, it is often at a very discounted (sometimes trivial cart fee) rate. Remember... international recognition. Those are the key words!

                Like I stated in my earlier post, it was not my intention to bash CGTFs personally. I'm sure some of them are excellent instructors and better than many CPGA ones out there. It was my intention, however, to make it known to the golfers living in the Greater Toronto Area that there are three different types of golf teachers out there:

                1) Independent: These guys are usually good golfers and have taken it upon themselves to start teaching people (usually people they know) and the kicker is, they charge you money for the lesson.

                Analogy: Your buddy is good at fixing cars and you have a problem with yours. Would you rather take your car to a certified mechanic or to your buddy's? It's true that your buddy COULD be better than the mechanic though, you never know.

                2) CGTF: I've been to the website and you know what? I'm still not convinced. Two rounds of 83 (in my opinion) might not be enough for someone to tell me that they know how to fix my swing. Plus, nobody in the business (half-decent golf courses and practice facilities) will give me a job because I'm not the official designation around. Thus I am forced to charge cheaper rates and appeal to the population that does not know the difference between CPGA and CGTF.

                Analogy: I am a "certified" mechanic but I did the weekend crash course at Joe Shmoe College. The question remains, would you rather take your car to a certified mechanic or to someone who graduated from joe shmoe's weekend course? It's true that someone from Joe Shmoe MIGHT be better than the mechanic though, you never know.

                3) CPGA: Ah....certification, recognition. Expensive yearly dues and fees, need to shoot 156 over two rounds to get your teaching card. Heirarchical structure exists (e.g., head pro, Class A pro, Assistant Pro, etc.).

                Analogy: The "certified" mechanic. Like we all know, there are those mechanics that are horrible and there are those that are good. It could very well be that your buddy or a Joe Shmoe graduate could fix your car better than the certified mechanic. However, if you care about your car, who would you rather take your car to? Especially if you are in the position where you know nothing about any of them! Would you want to take your car to your buddy's place and let him/her try? Would you want to take your car to the garage of the Joe Shmoe graduate (or even worse...take your car here THINKING that he is the same as the person who did the entire college program) because he might charge a bit less? Or will you, knowing you need to spend money on your car, take your car to a certified mechanic? The choice is yours.

                I'm just trying to raise awareness here. If I didn't know where to go and needed to spend money on my own car (I need golf instruction) to get something fixed (my golf swing) I would definitely bring the car to the certified mechanic (CPGA pro).

                This post is about raising awareness. It is about directing people who want to improve or learn the game to the correct people. Are they better teachers? Well I don't know! Maybe! Maybe not. All I know is that I would much rather have my car in the hands of a certified mechanic.

                Kevin
                WITB:
                Driver: Cleveland Classic 290(Miyazaki)
                3W: Callaway XR Pro 3 Deep 14* (Diamana 70 I'Lima)
                2H: Adams Pro Gold(Matrix Ozik Altus)
                4-PW: Callaway X-Prototype (Aerotech Steelfiber I95)
                56: Callaway X-Forged (Dynamic Gold)
                60: Callaway X-Forged (Rifle Spinner)
                Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport Mid Slant Pro Platinum

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

                  Kevin,

                  after reading your post, this is what I would do if I was looking for an instructor tomorrow...

                  ask my friends or other experts (such as ppl on here on this forum) if they know any instructors they recommend (doesn't matter what certification the instructors have)

                  if that fails, I will look for a CPGA instructor
                  Michael

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

                    Originally posted by Michael
                    Kevin,

                    after reading your post, this is what I would do if I was looking for an instructor tomorrow...

                    ask my friends or other experts (such as ppl on here on this forum) if they know any instructors they recommend (doesn't matter what certification the instructors have)

                    if that fails, I will look for a CPGA instructor


                    Sounds awesome Mike!
                    WITB:
                    Driver: Cleveland Classic 290(Miyazaki)
                    3W: Callaway XR Pro 3 Deep 14* (Diamana 70 I'Lima)
                    2H: Adams Pro Gold(Matrix Ozik Altus)
                    4-PW: Callaway X-Prototype (Aerotech Steelfiber I95)
                    56: Callaway X-Forged (Dynamic Gold)
                    60: Callaway X-Forged (Rifle Spinner)
                    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport Mid Slant Pro Platinum

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

                      Originally posted by Special_K
                      Like I stated in my earlier post, it was not my intention to bash CGTFs personally. I'm sure some of them are excellent instructors and better than many CPGA ones out there. It was my intention, however, to make it known to the golfers living in the Greater Toronto Area that there are three different types of golf teachers out there: .........
                      .
                      .
                      .....Kevin
                      Good argument......I definitely see the advantages to both CGTF and CPGA....

                      1. CGTF: There are those that just want to start off in the game and play recreationally probably don't want to spend too much if they're not sure if they want to actively get in the sport......these type of ppl probably would go the route of CGTF.....using your analogy...I have a Dodge Spirit....do I just want to pay somebody to fix up my car so I can drive, or do I want to get a certified professional with all the bells and whistles?

                      2. CPGA: I've been playing for a year or two now, and I realize that I love this sport and I know I will be playing this game most likely the rest of my life..I want to get much better at it and need some professional help......car analogy: I have a Lexus SC430 (I wish!)...do I want to send the Lexus certified professional technicians handle it? or someone who earned their certification in less than a month?
                      Feherty: " 270 to carry the water, you might want to lay up SnowFlake "

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

                        Originally posted by Ego Woods
                        Good argument......I definitely see the advantages to both CGTF and CPGA....

                        1. CGTF: There are those that just want to start off in the game and play recreationally probably don't want to spend too much if they're not sure if they want to actively get in the sport......these type of ppl probably would go the route of CGTF.....using your analogy...I have a Dodge Spirit....do I just want to pay somebody to fix up my car so I can drive, or do I want to get a certified professional with all the bells and whistles?

                        2. CPGA: I've been playing for a year or two now, and I realize that I love this sport and I know I will be playing this game most likely the rest of my life..I want to get much better at it and need some professional help......car analogy: I have a Lexus SC430 (I wish!)...do I want to send the Lexus certified professional technicians handle it? or someone who earned their certification in less than a month?
                        Yep! You got it Ego. The thing I worry most about is that person looking for a mechanic and not realizing the difference between Joe Shmoe and Mr. Certified, or taking their baby to Joe Shmoe thinking they are Mr. Certified.
                        WITB:
                        Driver: Cleveland Classic 290(Miyazaki)
                        3W: Callaway XR Pro 3 Deep 14* (Diamana 70 I'Lima)
                        2H: Adams Pro Gold(Matrix Ozik Altus)
                        4-PW: Callaway X-Prototype (Aerotech Steelfiber I95)
                        56: Callaway X-Forged (Dynamic Gold)
                        60: Callaway X-Forged (Rifle Spinner)
                        Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport Mid Slant Pro Platinum

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

                          What's the difference? I've got the best answer since I started out as a CGTF Member and left to be a CPGA Professional.

                          When I first wanted to get into the golf career I looked up all the information about the CPGA and CGTF and made a quick and costly first decision. CGTF was way easier and much quicker to obtain some type of Certification which was only reconized by their association I found out later.

                          I know I could Shoot 85 or better but at that time I couldn't break 78. So I signed up for the 1 week crash coarse on how to teach golf. Key word... CRASH COARSE... I did it, shot 82-84 to make it in. I was ready for the golf world but they weren't ready for me. I applied to 10 facilites and all of them said thanks but your certification doesn't mean anything to us. I ended up like most CGTF teachers working at a run down driving range for the summer trying to get by. Well I finally went to a CPGA Pro and asked him to sign me up under his guidence for 3 yrs I worked in the golf business and worked on my game. I then applied to the CPGA and past my Play-ability Test which was 156 or less not 170 like the CGTF. I then had to attend 2 workshops before I can teach. We also have yearly seminars we must attend and 3 more workshops that must be completed. This is a 7 year commitment to truely becoming a true GOLF PRO.

                          Now there is a GOLF PRO and a TEACHING PRO. The CPGA teaches you how to run and operate a golf facility or golf course. It's more business oriented and if you wish to strickly teach you can put more effort into that part of the business. Alot more doors open up for you as you get well reconized as a CPGA Pro.

                          So the difference between the 2 associations is huge. The CGTF is a person who had a vision to create an outside teaching federation for those who didn't want to enter the CPGA Program. He's making a killing to say the least. The dues for the CGTF is $250/yr where as the CPGA is $800 to $1200 yr. Basically the difference is not just FREE GOLF which isn't always the case for the CPGA but it's the yearly upkeep of the CPGA to keep CPGA instructors up to date with the golf business and golf instruction.

                          The difference between a CPGA instructor and a CGTF instructor is greatly shown from the association that trains them longer then a 1 week CGTF Coarse. Would you get a golf lesson from a person with 1 week training or 5 years training? That's not to say that you can't get a good golf lesson from a good CGTF Instructor who most likey is a good player and has had some lessons from a CPGA professional. If you find a instructor that you like and he/she makes you better then that is the bottom line. I've now opened my own CPGA Golf Academy at the Launch Golf Centre in Vaughan. I have 3 Top CPGA Instructors and one apprentice in training who also has his CGTF but is working to become a CPGA Pro.

                          The best advice I can give anyone is, ask a friend or look up information on golf pro's and what you get for your money. If your a beginner I strongly recommend you start off on the most important fundamentals at the beginning and learn the proper golf setup and swing that will benefit you years to come. We use Video Swing Analysis software and many teaching aids to help you improve.

                          I look forward to helping any of the other members with any questions they may have.

                          That's my 2 cents!
                          MSGOLF

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

                            welcome to the forum msgolf!

                            thanks for further clarifying the differences. learning so much from this thread.
                            Jaydog

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

                              Thanks for clarifying Matt. No matter what I say, it's always better when you hear it from the pro himself.

                              Welcome to the forum! I was at Launch on Monday...

                              Kevin
                              WITB:
                              Driver: Cleveland Classic 290(Miyazaki)
                              3W: Callaway XR Pro 3 Deep 14* (Diamana 70 I'Lima)
                              2H: Adams Pro Gold(Matrix Ozik Altus)
                              4-PW: Callaway X-Prototype (Aerotech Steelfiber I95)
                              56: Callaway X-Forged (Dynamic Gold)
                              60: Callaway X-Forged (Rifle Spinner)
                              Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport Mid Slant Pro Platinum

                              Comment

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