IMPROVING ONE'S LIE:

[4underthru9]

IMPROVING ONE'S LIE:

A question relating to a post in the TOUR SECTION, is it debateable as cheating in this case?

Here's a good example with Kenny Perry, is this improving your lie? I am not sure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKsioAyR9Fs

I'll copy and post in the rules section and see what the RULIES say, thanks for posting the link.

[Shadow]

IMPROVING ONE'S LIE:

A question relating to a post in the TOUR SECTION, is it debateable as cheating in this case?



I'll copy and post in the rules section and see what the RULIES say, thanks for posting the link.

13-2 states that a player must not improve or allow to be improved the lie of his ball by "pressing a club on the ground," and that a player is allowed to ground his club lightly behind the ball. Prior to what Perry did, the ball was barely visible, however, after what he did, the ball was clearly visible.
IMO, he pressed his club down behind the ball, TWICE, obviously improving the lie of the ball, rather than lightly resting the club on the grass.

[stevedimebag]

it certainly looks like he is deliberately flattening the grass and is improving his lie incrementally every time he does it. its not like he is addressing the ball at the time either.
Would he do the exact same moves if his bail was on the fairway? (i.e. is it part of his normal shot routine?)
It may even be part subconscious on his part, the act of improving the lie. Doesn't make it 'legal' though. IMO

[nearace]

Looks improved after his actions.

[wlorcb]

This exactly the same thing that Gary Player was accused of, in the pre-camera age. Supposedly, bad lie in the rough, long way from the green, set up with a driver, set up with a 3 wood, asked his caddie if the shot was a 3 iron- Not yet Mr Player was the response. IIRC(read that in a book somewhere).

[ColinL]

13-2 states that a player must not improve or allow to be improved the lie of his ball by "pressing a club on the ground," and that a player is allowed to ground his club lightly behind the ball. Prior to what Perry did, the ball was barely visible, however, after what he did, the ball was clearly visible.
IMO, he pressed his club down behind the ball, TWICE, obviously improving the lie of the ball, rather than lightly resting the club on the grass.

Agreed.

[pudubny]

The other version of this I have seen is using their foot. Player approaches ball, places his front foot carefully right behind the ball and bends down to "identify" it. When the ball is in the rough, this can improve your lie. The folks I knew who employed this method were careful to make sure their playing partners were not too close to see what they were doing but we knew.

[Bagger Vance]

I notice Bubba Watson is another player that before he hits he walks up and grounds his club multiple times before he is going to actually pull the trigger. After he sets up to it 2 or 3 times he walks up and hits his ball. He soles the club behind the ball like 6-10 times before actually hitting.

If his lie doesn't improve its not a penalty but I don't see how you can sole the club that many times and not push the rough down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEKewnX-DlA

[aaagc]

From that video clip., I'm not entirely convinced that he barely touched the grass. My impression was that all the face of his club was visible all the time. Particularly as the ball was sitting well down.