Playing Through in North America

[SkyMark]

Re: Playing Through in North America

Hi; we hear often that everyone needs to ‘keep up to the group in front’. That’s good advice, but clearly there are some groups --- probably composed of better-than-average golfers --- who are capable of playing faster than average. The next group will have a hard time keeping up. I think there should be some more instructions from starters and marshals; after they say ‘keep up to the group in front’, they should say ‘but if you do happen to fall behind, and observe that there’s a faster group behind you, then here’s the procedure ….’

Is it just my imagination, or do the marshals always disappear when a group is holding up play? Maybe it's like watching a pot of water to boil....

[sweetchilli]

Re: Playing Through in North America

Is it just my imagination, or do the marshals always disappear when a group is holding up play? Maybe it's like watching a pot of water to boil....

In my experience I have found marshals to be utterly useless when it comes to slow play...maybe once upon a time that was not the case but now it seems that marshals dally around all day while barking orders at the first tee and generally disrespect younger players of the game. Often at the first tee myself and my playing partner, both in our twenties and both single digit handicaps who dress nicely are often talked down to and warned about unruly behavior, cart etiquette, alcohol etc a lot by older marshals who double as starters at a lot of courses. Pretty frustrating and leaves a bad taste in the mouth and usually if it is slow and marshals are driving around they often stop and just say "looks like its a slow day out here etc" and don't do anything to speed up play.

[Nosechug]

Re: Playing Through in North America

I think the greatest reason people don't let someone play through in that situation is they don't like waiting for the group to clear out in front of them. What I've done to alleviate that situation (as both the slower group and the faster group) is to suggest that we play the next hole together - they hole out first and go ahead. It keeps everyone happy. By the time the group gets to the tee, the guys ahead are usually out of the way.

The R+A guidelines are great - offering advice to the separation of groups and the pace.

Yes Yes and Yes

[Nosechug]

Re: Playing Through in North America

In my experience I have found marshals to be utterly useless when it comes to slow play...maybe once upon a time that was not the case but now it seems that marshals dally around all day while barking orders at the first tee and generally disrespect younger players of the game. Often at the first tee myself and my playing partner, both in our twenties and both single digit handicaps who dress nicely are often talked down to and warned about unruly behavior, cart etiquette, alcohol etc a lot by older marshals who double as starters at a lot of courses. Pretty frustrating and leaves a bad taste in the mouth and usually if it is slow and marshals are driving around they often stop and just say "looks like its a slow day out here etc" and don't do anything to speed up play.

Agreed, or they ask the group behind the slow group to keep on their tail. Wrong approach. If they are behind by a hole and a half, make them pick up and move to the next tee. There is nothing more frustrating on a golf course than being stuck behind a group that has open space in front of them and the rest of the course is backed up behind them.

[PistolPete]

Re: Playing Through in North America

It is a huge problem that evidently no one knows the solution to in North America. Myself and 3 friends teed off on Sunday with the first time of the day and were done in 3 hours 45 minutes walking (no running, just playing ready golf). As we were walking off 18 the threesome behind us was teeing off on 15 on pace for a 4 hour 45 minute round resulting in a course that was immediately backed up as of the second tee time of the day. My friends and I just laughed and were at home watching the Masters before these guys were even done. Total joke

[Bailey]

Re: Playing Through in North America

Agreed, or they ask the group behind the slow group to keep on their tail. Wrong approach. If they are behind by a hole and a half, make them pick up and move to the next tee. There is nothing more frustrating on a golf course than being stuck behind a group that has open space in front of them and the rest of the course is backed up behind them.

Why should that group not be able to finish their hole ??? If the group behind is in that big of a rush , then they planned their day wrong or they are just rushing thru the game and getting frustrated at a group that is enjoying the day .

[Giller31]

Re: Playing Through in North America

Why should that group not be able to finish their hole ??? If the group behind is in that big of a rush , then they planned their day wrong or they are just rushing thru the game and getting frustrated at a group that is enjoying the day .

Because if they are slow and causing a back-up they should be a little more concerned with pace of play versus "enjoying their day". Paying their green fee doesn't give them the right to inconvenience everyone behind them. People going out to play have a reasonable expectation of a timely round.

[Galted]

Re: Playing Through in North America

Because if they are slow and causing a back-up they should be a little more concerned with pace of play versus "enjoying their day". Paying their green fee doesn't give them the right to inconvenience everyone behind them. People going out to play have a reasonable expectation of a timely round.

Follow United policy and drag them off course!

[Pingnut]

Re: Playing Through in North America

Follow United policy and drag them off course!

LOL..

I can't say I've come across any rude starters or marshals. Mostly freindly but not very effective at moving people around a course that I can see. I get a wave when they drive by but never do they ask how it's going or if I know where the hold-up is when it's busy and everyone is standing around waiting to play. Sometimes I'll go out of my way to flag them down and suggest they go check the group on X hole who are three holes off the pace etc.. but I shouldn't really need to do that should I?

[Nosechug]

Re: Playing Through in North America

Why should that group not be able to finish their hole ??? If the group behind is in that big of a rush , then they planned their day wrong or they are just rushing thru the game and getting frustrated at a group that is enjoying the day .

It is not about planning your day or being in a big rush. It is about a reasonable expectation of how a round of golf should be executed. If there is a gap of a hole and a half as stated above, and the groups behind are backed up and waiting on every shot. The group is out of position on the golf course and should be move back into position, or asked to leave, for the benefit of the other golfers on the course.

[thunderbolt]

Re: Playing Through in North America

Just because there is a hole or hole and a half gap doesn't necessarily mean they are out of position. For all you know they may be playing to a 4 hour pace and the group ahread is running to be done as quick as possible (which I still don't understand why everyone is in such a hurry) To me anything under 4 15 is great...

[Giller31]

Re: Playing Through in North America

Just because there is a hole or hole and a half gap doesn't necessarily mean they are out of position. For all you know they may be playing to a 4 hour pace and the group ahread is running to be done as quick as possible (which I still don't understand why everyone is in such a hurry) To me anything under 4 15 is great...

Fair enough. I think it's in combination with what's happening behind you. If you have a gap in front of you and everyone behind you is waiting on every shot, you're probably playing a little slow.

[Galted]

Re: Playing Through in North America

Just because there is a hole or hole and a half gap doesn't necessarily mean they are out of position. For all you know they may be playing to a 4 hour pace and the group ahread is running to be done as quick as possible (which I still don't understand why everyone is in such a hurry) To me anything under 4 15 is great...

Sorry. Anything beyond 3.5 hours means someone in front is dawdling!

[thunderbolt]

Re: Playing Through in North America

Sorry. Anything beyond 3.5 hours means someone in front is dawdling!

Then maybe the 3.5 hour players are the real problem

[WDM1980]

Re: Playing Through in North America

Why should that group not be able to finish their hole ??? If the group behind is in that big of a rush , then they planned their day wrong or they are just rushing thru the game and getting frustrated at a group that is enjoying the day .

My plan for the day did not involve standing around a golf course waiting on people to get out of the way. Socializing should happen at the 19th hole, not the fifth. Don't take that to mean that you shouldn't chat and interact with your playing partners; rather, I mean that with your ball on one side of the fairway, and your partner's on the other, go to your ball and play, don't watch him then go to your ball.

Just because there is a hole or hole and a half gap doesn't necessarily mean they are out of position. For all you know they may be playing to a 4 hour pace and the group ahread is running to be done as quick as possible (which I still don't understand why everyone is in such a hurry) To me anything under 4 15 is great...

Fair enough. I think it's in combination with what's happening behind you. If you have a gap in front of you and everyone behind you is waiting on every shot, you're probably playing a little slow.

Thunderbolt - you're right that a gap doesn't necessarily mean that a group is slow; as Giller said, the gap has to be considered in context. A gap ahead may be there because the group started after a gap on the tee sheet, or they are play a good pace, but the group ahead are rabbits.

If there is only one group behind the lead/slower group, then the faster players should be allowed to play through. The original topic of this thread was about just that - some players in North America won't let other, faster groups play through. I probably mentioned this earlier, but I've been in a two ball held up by a four ball that wouldn't let us through because they were four and we were two. Somehow that made sense to them.

If, on the other hand, there are multiple groups stacked up behind the lead group - meaning that the groups behind are waiting on almost every shot - then the lead group needs to be moved ahead. Letting one group through won't fix this situation. The gap needs to be closed as it is impacting the enjoyment and pace of everyone behind them. I think this is the scenario that most were referring to when they said that the slow group should pick up their balls and move to the next hole. This is also the one thing that course management and marshals generally won't do. End result - one group slows the pace and impedes the enjoyment of everyone behind them. Course management needs to consider that more often when dealing with slow play.