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How much power should course marshals have ?

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  • How much power should course marshals have ?

    Lately at a few public courses I've experienced very slow rounds and the pro shop answer is " we talked to them but what else can we do? In my mind, people need to be told before their round that there is an expected pace of play and what the consequences are of falling behind. I believe marshals should have the power to force people to skip holes or leave the course. What do you folks think?

  • #2
    Skip some holes or leave the course? Neither of those are really viable options when people are paying more than $100 for a round of golf, and they should tell the marshal exactly that in very clear terms. If a marshal ever insisted that I skip even a single hole, much less leave the course, I would demand a refund.

    That said, marshals should be allowed to have a group 'stand aside' to allow other groups to play through in order to relieve a backup.

    If a course is going to insist on a specific pace of play, then:

    1) they must be clear about what the expected pace is;
    2) they must take explicit steps to ensure that the stated pace is realistic and achievable;
    3) they must employ realistic tee-time intervals (e.g. 10 minutes) to prevent groups from 'stacking up' in the first few holes;
    4) they must employ various 'starter's times' on the tee-sheet which would accommodate occasional delays;
    5) they must provide clear indicators (e.g. clocks) of the time-par at various points on the course.

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    • #3
      It depends on who you are dealing with. Some thinks since they pay the green fee, they entitle to 6hr rounds whether there are a train of 4somes behind them or not. In my mind, the green fee amount is irrelevant. If your group is slow and its clear the course is wide open in front and serious backup behind, pls be courteous and skip a hole or let someone play through when being asked by marshall.

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      • #4
        Fully agree they should be able to enforce hole skipping and if necessary, ejection.

        Letting others play through is great, but if there is a train of foursomes behind, which there likely is if the offending group is slow enough to cause a problem, then that doesn't really work.

        The marshal asks the group to let the following group play though, then the next foursome who is also right on their tail sits there and has to wait for the slow group to tee off and play behind them for the rest of the round?

        Unfortunately, this is unlikely to happen anytime soon because people are accustomed to slow rounds everywhere because it's becoming the norm. Therefore they are unlikely to complain vs the group that is forced to keep a decent pace or leave will b1tch and complain to anyone who'll listen.
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        • #5
          I'm kinda with Benz on this.

          First, a realistic PoP has to be established and communicated. And I'm sure it won't be in the 3.5 hour range that some on here might think is reasonable.

          The first time I played Royal Ashburn the starter gave a clear talk on the 1st tee, including "if we determine you are behind, we will pick up your ball and drop it at the 150 yd stake." That didn't sit well with me, getting a threat from an employee before we'd made a stroke.

          The only previous marshal interaction I'd ever had was when one told me and my friends to pick up the pace because we were 2.5 holes behind the group in front. I told him there was a 3 hole gap when we started and the group behind was 2.5 behind us, so we'll keep an eye on them, but we're not rushing to close the gap in front if it's not necessary. That didn't go over well with him, and his response didn't go over well with me.

          So... while I hate slow rounds I think it's really challenging to manage, especially during peak times. Curious as to what the situation was with the OP. Was this today, or on a weekend?
          "Confusion" will be my epitaph
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Benz View Post
            Skip some holes or leave the course? Neither of those are really viable options when people are paying more than $100 for a round of golf, and they should tell the marshal exactly that in very clear terms. If a marshal ever insisted that I skip even a single hole, much less leave the course, I would demand a refund.

            That said, marshals should be allowed to have a group 'stand aside' to allow other groups to play through in order to relieve a backup.

            If a course is going to insist on a specific pace of play, then:

            1) they must be clear about what the expected pace is;
            2) they must take explicit steps to ensure that the stated pace is realistic and achievable;
            3) they must employ realistic tee-time intervals (e.g. 10 minutes) to prevent groups from 'stacking up' in the first few holes;
            4) they must employ various 'starter's times' on the tee-sheet which would accommodate occasional delays;
            5) they must provide clear indicators (e.g. clocks) of the time-par at various points on the course.
            100 percent in agreement.

            Perhaps if a course has a clear policy that is visible and communicated to all ( better yet have every golfer signs off on agreement like with say a cart agreement) Such that groups failing to keep up to the pace of play will be provided with one warning and after that will be requested to pick up and move to the next tee. I doubt there is any way that you can kick a group off a course for slow play. How will that be done send a a retired marshal or the kid who shines the clubs ? Cops arent going to get involved. Best you can do is try and prevent them from ever returning which Ive seen courses do with unruly groups, even they werent removed.

            Ive heard of overzealous marshals and had my first one in Arizona last trip. We were on the group in front all front 9, finished in well under 2 hrs , instead of waiting on 10 tee stopped at the 1/2 way to grab a beer. Got to 10 tee and marshall got all out of sorts because the group in front was already on the green, yet our buddies behind were just reaching 9 tee. We just ignorec him and played on completing our round less than 4 hrs and well ahead of the group behind.
            "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ace in the hazard View Post
              Fully agree they should be able to enforce hole skipping and if necessary, ejection.
              Unless there were specific conditions allowing either of these as part of the green fee agreement, then this approach would not work.

              Originally posted by ace in the hazard View Post
              Letting others play through is great, but if there is a train of foursomes behind, which there likely is if the offending group is slow enough to cause a problem, then that doesn't really work.
              Nothing sends a message to the slow group quite like having them watch multiple groups play through.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Benz View Post
                Nothing sends a message to the slow group quite like having them watch multiple groups play through.
                Have Marshaled in situations like this, and some groups did not even care just out for the fun and beers.
                They would say "Let them all through no problem", heard more than once.
                Resolve to be tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant with the weak and wrong, because sometime in your life, you will have been all of these. Dr. Robert H. Goddard




                Comment


                • #9
                  [QUOTE=Ignatius Reilly;n2698359
                  Curious as to what the situation was with the OP. Was this today, or on a weekend?[/QUOTE]

                  Weekday rounds that should take about 4 hours.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ignatius Reilly View Post
                    I'm kinda with Benz on this.

                    The only previous marshal interaction I'd ever had was when one told me and my friends to pick up the pace because we were 2.5 holes behind the group in front. I told him there was a 3 hole gap when we started and the group behind was 2.5 behind us, so we'll keep an eye on them, but we're not rushing to close the gap in front if it's not necessary. That didn't go over well with him, and his response didn't go over well with me.
                    I had a similar experience at a course (can't remember where). The group in front of us (a 2 or a 3some) ended up getting 2 holes ahead of us. The group behind us was 2 holes back and the marshal was asking us to pick it up. I told him the GPS says we're only 2 minutes behind. I can appreciate when the course is full that you need to keep up with the group in front, but when we aren't holding anyone up, why are you annoying people?

                    As for the original question, I would think that as others have stated having an open expectation on PoP helps with delivering the message when the marshal needs to tell people to pick it up. Otherwise, it still goes back to are golfers playing from the right tees. More often then not, you see guys hitting from the blue tees when they should be at the whites and that just causes issues right from the get go.
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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by davepratt View Post
                      Lately at a few public courses I've experienced very slow rounds and the pro shop answer is " we talked to them but what else can we do? In my mind, people need to be told before their round that there is an expected pace of play and what the consequences are of falling behind. I believe marshals should have the power to force people to skip holes or leave the course. What do you folks think?
                      I would love to see marshals do more than just ball hawk.I don't expect people to be told to rush or leave when slow,they did pay to play.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I just don't understand slow play? Why does that appeal to anyone?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by elmeroil View Post
                          I just don't understand slow play? Why does that appeal to anyone?
                          Ive never met or heard of anyone that likes slow play.

                          it does depend on what your expectation and definition of slow play is though and we know from discussions here that varies. Public player on packed courses might have a different expectation for time to play than those at less busy private clubs. TEeing off at tee off at 630 am on a saturday at Don Valley a different expectation than teeing off at noon.
                          If we look at courses and their posted or expected pace of play its usually between 4 hrs and 10 and 4 hrs and 30. My expectation on a regulation and busy course ( my course is long and difficukt) is 4 hrs. Ninety plus percent of my rounds this year were between 3:45 and 4:15. Several less than 345 and only 2 longer than 4:30 ( both at Bondhead, home of the 5 hr round) If im on an empty course in a cart in a 2 or 4 some then my expectation is going to be quicker. If i'm in a competitive event or a big tourney , or God forbid playing a public course on a weekend then my expectation is going to be longer . Im quite tolerant to most any pace , i dont want to feel rushed nor do i want to wait for every shot taken but Unless its a fun charity scramble , at 5 hrs Its going to start to grind me and my enjoyment will be less.

                          Many factors impact pace of play , one of my slow rounds at Bond Head was cart path only which added at least 20 minutes. Marshalls can only help so much, in the 5:30 round at Bond Head the marshall was doing his best to keep the group in front of us moving but the course jammec way too many people on the course. started on 10 with 5 groups on the hoke, 2 on the 11th and 5 more groups on the 12th
                          "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by davepratt View Post
                            In my mind, people need to be told before their round that there is an expected pace of play and what the consequences are of falling behind.
                            [QUOTE=Ignatius Reilly;n2698359]I'm kinda with Benz on this.

                            First, a realistic PoP has to be established and communicated. /QUOTE]

                            Originally posted by Weirfan View Post

                            Perhaps if a course has a clear policy that is visible and communicated to all ( better yet have every golfer signs off on agreement like with say a cart agreement) .
                            Originally posted by Benz View Post

                            Unless there were specific conditions allowing either of these as part of the green fee agreement, then this approach would not work.
                            There is a common theme here that is probably a key. Most courses don't make it clear what their expectations are concerning pace of play and few if any set out consequences if someone is backing up the field. So, slow players have no appreciation of timely play, or assume any responsibility for moving along at a reasonable pace and marshals don't really have a real mandate, and are not seen to have one, for addressing the situation.

                            Fortunately there are no rules limiting the number of golf balls you can carry during a match!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 4underthru9 View Post

                              Have Marshaled in situations like this, and some groups did not even care just out for the fun and beers.
                              They would say "Let them all through no problem", heard more than once.

                              Problem solved then.

                              Comment

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