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why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

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  • #1

    why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

    I'm curious about this. A number of courses in Ottawa have fantastic conditions tee to green but their greens are slow and shaggy. It seems worse this year. I'm not looking for 12 on the stimpmeter but good roll and moderately fast (tough to quantify but I think you know what i mean), not having to hammer everything to get it to the hole and have it take several hops along the way.

    Is it a cost issue? Are they afraid of getting to short and losing the greens? I would imagine this year wouldn't be a problem with the cooler weather and lots of rain.

    There are a few courses I love that I won't go play again because of the greens. One course has put a ton of $ into the course, the clubhouse, etc. but their greens remain slow and shaggy. If I can't putt I'd rather play elsewhere.
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  • #2
    Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

    not being an expert, my understanding is that it is harder on the grass to keep it that short, and therefore more expensive to maintain them in good condition.

    pace of play is also an issue when they get too quick. amateurs end up 4 putting (and complain about it being too hard).
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    • #3
      Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

      Originally posted by ace in the hazard View Post
      not being an expert, my understanding is that it is harder on the grass to keep it that short, and therefore more expensive to maintain them in good condition.

      pace of play is also an issue when they get too quick. amateurs end up 4 putting (and complain about it being too hard).
      I suppose. But I am not talking about lightning fast, just a nice pace and not bumpy. in terms of being more expensive, i am not sure about that (but would like to hear from someone who really knows).
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      • #4
        Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

        (but would like to hear from someone who really knows).

        seriously, Ace ..... covered it.
        It's cost. Short is very dear on maintenance.
        And bad for you ego.
        things change

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        • #5
          Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

          Originally posted by bl8d View Post
          (but would like to hear from someone who really knows).

          seriously, Ace ..... covered it.
          It's cost. Short is very dear on maintenance.
          And bad for you ego.
          he says he's not an expert. I'm looking for someone with some real experience on the subject. Why is it more expensive? And why sink vast amounts of $ into a course to keep it in great shape if your greens suck?
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          • #6
            Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

            I think some courses are still being extra cautious with greens that had trouble from winter kill. Not sure if that applies here. Ask them at the course and see what they say if anything.

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            • #7
              Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

              Originally posted by bogey5 View Post
              I think some courses are still being extra cautious with greens that had trouble from winter kill. Not sure if that applies here. Ask them at the course and see what they say if anything.
              winter kill wasn't a problem up here. our courses came through with no issues.
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              • #8
                Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

                Shorter grass requires more frequent watering as it cannot hold water. It's also more susceptible to disease and requires extra chemical fertilizers.

                Having longer grass allows it to grow deeper roots which means that the grass can reach deeper into the ground for water. Essentially, not cutting the grass too short allows the greens to become stronger in the long run. With the winter/spring/summer we've had, being extra cautious with the greens is probably a good thing.
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                • #9
                  Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

                  Im not sure about cost but my guess is it makes the course too hard for courses that get a lot of ave joe hackers and seniors. which is a shame because I find it easier to putt on a green that is quick and rolling nice. Not to mention getting wedges to spin.

                  I had a conversation with the greens keeper at black diamond a couple of years ago and he told me he knows when he has the greens too quick because there are chunks out of the greens from frustrated golfers smashing their clubs on the green.

                  The pro at my course told me our greens guy keeps them long because he only cares if it looks nice. hes not a golfer so I guess he would rather see something nice and green than baked out and rolling.

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                  • #10
                    Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

                    Originally posted by blackout View Post
                    Im not sure about cost but my guess is it makes the course too hard for courses that get a lot of ave joe hackers and seniors. which is a shame because I find it easier to putt on a green that is quick and rolling nice. Not to mention getting wedges to spin.

                    I had a conversation with the greens keeper at black diamond a couple of years ago and he told me he knows when he has the greens too quick because there are chunks out of the greens from frustrated golfers smashing their clubs on the green.

                    The pro at my course told me our greens guy keeps them long because he only cares if it looks nice. hes not a golfer so I guess he would rather see something nice and green than baked out and rolling.
                    ya, I can see the frustration part. the courses I am referring to are aimed at the better golfer. I guess i find it odd that they put so much effort and $ into the rest of the course but the greens seem to be somewhat neglected so I would hesitate to see it as a $ problem.

                    The one I played last night is aimed at the average golfer and has a lot of tournaments so I can see that side if it.
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                    • #11
                      Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

                      Originally posted by Jeffc View Post
                      ya, I can see the frustration part. the courses I am referring to are aimed at the better golfer. I guess i find it odd that they put so much effort and $ into the rest of the course but the greens seem to be somewhat neglected so I would hesitate to see it as a $ problem.

                      The one I played last night is aimed at the average golfer and has a lot of tournaments so I can see that side if it.
                      It may not be a money problem, but it could be an issue of where to direct the funds, everyone is looking to save some money, so maybe make the greens a bit longer now to allow them to grow a better root system. As I pointed out, shorter grass needs more chemicals to keep it alive as the grass can get nutrients if its chopped down so low and the shorter grass needs more frequent watering.

                      Did you ask the course why the greens were shaggy?

                      I played on a state park course in April in West Virginia - the greens had grass 2cm long, but they appear to have been rolled - the grass was laying flat. They were protecting the greens because of the harsh winter. The putts were slow and had way less break than expected, it not only sped up play (no need to read from 5 angles) it ensured the greens would be good once summer came around.
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                      • #12
                        Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

                        This thread reminds me of one of GTA courses that I played yesterday.
                        Dragon's Fire! One of the slowest green this year.
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                        • #13
                          Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

                          Originally posted by bkim3 View Post
                          This thread reminds me of one of GTA courses that I played yesterday.
                          Dragon's Fire! One of the slowest green this year.
                          They weren't so slow last Saturday - must've just been a bad day.
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                          • #14
                            Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

                            Originally posted by WDM1980 View Post
                            It may not be a money problem, but it could be an issue of where to direct the funds, everyone is looking to save some money, so maybe make the greens a bit longer now to allow them to grow a better root system. As I pointed out, shorter grass needs more chemicals to keep it alive as the grass can get nutrients if its chopped down so low and the shorter grass needs more frequent watering.

                            Did you ask the course why the greens were shaggy?

                            I played on a state park course in April in West Virginia - the greens had grass 2cm long, but they appear to have been rolled - the grass was laying flat. They were protecting the greens because of the harsh winter. The putts were slow and had way less break than expected, it not only sped up play (no need to read from 5 angles) it ensured the greens would be good once summer came around.
                            one course I had emailed and basically got the same answer but that was the course that gets a lot of traffic with tournaments almost every day so I expect that from them.

                            The other I emailed the director of golf but he never got back to me. I guess its a balance as I won't go spend any $ there until the improve. One of them used to have great greens and they used to roll nice.
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                            • #15
                              Re: why don't courses keep their greens shorter?

                              Originally posted by WDM1980 View Post
                              They weren't so slow last Saturday - must've just been a bad day.
                              I think it is more likely you had a good day. I have played DF numerous times and greens have always been slow.

                              Did you play prime-tiime? Wonder if they make them quicker on the weekend and let them grow during the week.

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