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True Length Technology vs. Single Length

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  • True Length Technology vs. Single Length

    I've had a number of people approach me about the difference - or even if they are the same? Single length is exactly that - 1 length for all irons, TLT is progressive lengths where the length and lie are mathematically tied together. Both systems will put the player in 1 singular address position allowing a very consistent swing to be developed.

    A standard set off the shelf will often have 4 inches of total length differential with only 3 degree of lie separation.

    Single length of course will have zero length difference and zero lie difference.

    There are several ways to approach the length increments within TLT. My standard is 1 degree of lie separation - between each iron - where the length increment is less than 1/2 inch between the long clubs and less than 1/4 inch between short clubs. This combined from longest to shortest is just under 3 inches of total length vrs 6 degree of lie separation - while still maintaining 1 athletic address position.

    To do a TLT length reduction the approach would be to have 1/2 degree of lie difference between each iron and its relative length. So with this approach having set the 4 iron to 61 degree of lie and the PW to 64 degree of lie - there is only 1 inch difference between the longest and shortest clubs. This gives a small length increment advantage so the player does not end up playing a too short long iron nor a too long short iron. Picture a 37 1/2 inch 4 iron verses a 36 1/2 inch PW. These lengths of course will vary depending on the size of the player and the relative fit.

    So for players wanting to consider single length - there is a TLT method that has a slight twist but will still produce the single athletic address position just like single length.
    Regards
    Dan

    True Length Technology TM
    Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
    True Frequency Technology TM
    - Developer / Owner

    Maltby Clubmaking Academy
    - Master
    Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
    - Advanced / Professional
    Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
    - Class 'A'

  • #2
    Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

    Hi Dan THANKS for your detailed explanation. BUT, just to get your approach thru my thick brain, would the following be correct: we line up all the irons, bottoms flat with the ground, and top of the grips leaning on the wall. Tips of the grips would be all at the same height, but the angle of the shafts would be different, while 1 length irons would have same height AND same angle ?

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    • #3
      Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

      Originally posted by veryold View Post
      Hi Dan THANKS for your detailed explanation. BUT, just to get your approach thru my thick brain, would the following be correct: we line up all the irons, bottoms flat with the ground, and top of the grips leaning on the wall. Tips of the grips would be all at the same height, but the angle of the shafts would be different, while 1 length irons would have same height AND same angle ?
      That's correct.

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      • #4
        Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

        Originally posted by Element View Post
        That's correct.
        Appreciated
        Now, one more (stupid) question: the "regular" off the shelf irons, when lined up against the wall, as described above, would NOT be at the same height, requiring lower hands at address for shorter clubs, yes ?
        Cheers !

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        • #5
          Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

          Originally posted by veryold View Post
          Appreciated
          Now, one more (stupid) question: the "regular" off the shelf irons, when lined up against the wall, as described above, would NOT be at the same height, requiring lower hands at address for shorter clubs, yes ?
          Cheers !
          Yes, that too is correct. A 'standard' set of OEM clubs in general, with the grooves all set parallel to the ground leaning on a wall will have the long iron shaft sitting upward to 2 inches taller than the shortest iron. This is the address compensation that the player has to deal with. They either need to choke down on the long irons or deal with the effects of an improper lie angle. If the players address fits the wedges then if that player remained in the same address position and held the long iron at full length - the result is going to be toe up - and the ball flight is going to be a draw or hook with this long iron - where the pw will deliver a straight shot.

          Option B is to choke down on the long irons - but you have to choke down a different amount for each club.

          Option C is to change your address position - for every club - standing tall with the long irons and athletic with the short irons. Each club will require a small adjustment to make up for the 2" of vertical variation that lives in these sets.

          Both TLT and single length allow you to stand athletic - for every club - making no adjustment to your address or you grip position. The resultant ball flight is very consistent in both TLT and single length. Where I feel TLT gives you an added advantage of playing slightly longer long irons (when compared to single length) and slightly shorter wedges.

          To set up single length you need heads that weigh the same and are set to the same lie angle. To do this with a conventional set you have to add a lot of weight to the long irons and physically remove weight from the short iron - this is a very tedious procedure and may put the structure of the head at risk.

          Pretty much any head can be adapted to TLT, where the selection of single length heads is limited.
          Regards
          Dan

          True Length Technology TM
          Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
          True Frequency Technology TM
          - Developer / Owner

          Maltby Clubmaking Academy
          - Master
          Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
          - Advanced / Professional
          Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
          - Class 'A'

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

            THANKS Dan - so much appreciated. Hope i'm not overextending your patience with me here, but one (last) question/clarification: are your iron heads the same weight as OEM, i.e., "regular" irons ?
            Cheers !

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

              I don't have heads specifically designed as TLT heads. I use primarily Tom Wishon and Ralph Maltby designs. Yes they are traditional as far as weight goes. Wishon has an added weight port on most designs and Maltby has a screw weight system, so there are advantages with these designs.

              I do have great success in altering (or retrofitting) existing designs so the players choice of playing OEM's can still be very successful. Sometimes the 'limit of bending' can reduce some of my choices, so greater success is achieved with heads that do bend well.
              Regards
              Dan

              True Length Technology TM
              Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
              True Frequency Technology TM
              - Developer / Owner

              Maltby Clubmaking Academy
              - Master
              Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
              - Advanced / Professional
              Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
              - Class 'A'

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

                1) Would Ping irons fall into your category of "heads that do bend well" ?
                2) If the heads are "traditional" weight, how do you "manage", Swing Weights after modifying the shaft lengths (on the, say, Ping irons, for example)?
                THANKS !
                Last edited by veryold; Jun 18, 2015, 07:00 AM.

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                • #9
                  Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

                  I have had good success with Ping (never broke one) and have been able to reach the lie angles that I needed for those retrofits. If trying to reach the 1/2 degree lie increment change between each club (for the 1 inch total length separation) it may be required to use some lead tape on the long irons when dealing with graphite - as lead powder and a cork is less favourable in graphite. Steel you can add enough weight in most cases.

                  If I change the lie increment to say - 3/4 degree between clubs - then the total length differential from the longest to the shortest is near 2.0 inches ( I am not by my charts right now so will confirm this later) of total length differential - longest to shortest. This 2.0 total separation still allows extremely controllable iron lengths and allows improved weight distribution. It is manageable in most cases.

                  If you go the full 1 degree of lie differential - longest to shortest - then you now have a set that has just under 3 inches - total length - and is fully manageable for weight, still giving you the benefits of shorter long irons and longer short irons.

                  There are a number of factors that contribute to the decision of what the final total length separation will be, and a full review of the clubs may be necessary to determine how small you can make the length / lie increment.
                  Regards
                  Dan

                  True Length Technology TM
                  Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
                  True Frequency Technology TM
                  - Developer / Owner

                  Maltby Clubmaking Academy
                  - Master
                  Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
                  - Advanced / Professional
                  Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
                  - Class 'A'

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

                    Dan: Thank you VERY MUCH for all your detailed explanations and patience with this old guy
                    Cheers !

                    P.S. I am considering your fitting/clubmaking service, and will decide what to do in the near future.

                    Oh, just one last question (promise): Can you make the real "one length" iron set (5 iron to SW), with same Lie, Length, and Swing Weight ?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

                      Originally posted by veryold View Post
                      Dan: Thank you VERY MUCH for all your detailed explanations and patience with this old guy
                      Cheers !

                      P.S. I am considering your fitting/clubmaking service, and will decide what to do in the near future.

                      Oh, just one last question (promise): Can you make the real "one length" iron set (5 iron to SW), with same Lie, Length, and Swing Weight ?
                      Single length is possible, but really depends on a number of factors that must all fall into place to be successful.
                      1. Can all the irons be bent enough to reach the target lie?
                      2. can enough weight be added to the long irons to reach the target swing weight?
                      3. Can (and do you want) enough weight removed from your short iron heads - this can mean drilling out port holes in the head to remove enough weight from the short irons?
                      4. what the shaft is made of - more possibilities with steel but an unlikely choice for an 'old guy'

                      With TLT we are not locked into a 37 1/2 inch set. I will still do a full TLT fitting to determine the correct combination of length and lie for the individual.

                      I will always consider this if it is truly what the player wants, but all of the other options I presented will accomplish the same feel / address position and will give you the benefits of a slight length range.
                      Regards
                      Dan

                      True Length Technology TM
                      Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
                      True Frequency Technology TM
                      - Developer / Owner

                      Maltby Clubmaking Academy
                      - Master
                      Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
                      - Advanced / Professional
                      Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
                      - Class 'A'

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

                        Dan, if someone is happy with the length increments of their irons, i.e. 0.5" between clubs, could you make them TLT by just changing the lie on the clubs?
                        TM Superdeep 8.5 Aerotech Claymore F5 45" + Harrison Shotmaker D
                        Geek DCT 5ive Wood V2 65s
                        Geek DCT 7even Wood ProLaunch Red x + Harrison Shotmaker E
                        TM 1980s TPF Blade 4-9 Steelfiber 125cw
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                        • #13
                          Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

                          Originally posted by pir2 View Post
                          Dan, if someone is happy with the length increments of their irons, i.e. 0.5" between clubs, could you make them TLT by just changing the lie on the clubs?
                          I have had success with this, but it really depends on the iron head and how well it adapts to bending. If they are cast heads then chances are I cannot get the lie angle flat enough - although I have been successful with cast in the past. Forged heads are traditionally no problem.

                          The other factor is your size / wrist to floor etc. If you are shorter in stature then perhaps every club needs to be flattened which can make pretty flat long irons, or if you are tall then excessive upright short irons are sometimes the case.

                          These things need to be looked at on an individual case as it is not possible to give just a yes or no answer.

                          There is no reason to stay at the 1/2 inch length increment (unless you are looking at resale value). There is a best fit that will fit you extremely well, and keeping the length of your clubs where they are is an option, but the lies will need to be moved if consistent ball flight is your goal.
                          Regards
                          Dan

                          True Length Technology TM
                          Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
                          True Frequency Technology TM
                          - Developer / Owner

                          Maltby Clubmaking Academy
                          - Master
                          Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
                          - Advanced / Professional
                          Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
                          - Class 'A'

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: True Length Technology vs. Single Length

                            Thanks Dan!
                            TM Superdeep 8.5 Aerotech Claymore F5 45" + Harrison Shotmaker D
                            Geek DCT 5ive Wood V2 65s
                            Geek DCT 7even Wood ProLaunch Red x + Harrison Shotmaker E
                            TM 1980s TPF Blade 4-9 Steelfiber 125cw
                            SMT Durometer 49/53/57 AXE XCaliber Tour X Graphite Wedge
                            TM Rossa
                            MOI matched by me!

                            Comment

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