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Driver Fitting Cost

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  • #46
    Re: Driver Fitting Cost

    Originally posted by Weirfan View Post
    correct, you will see on my custom clubfitters pages that alignment etc are upgrade charges. in some instances that is also accomplished via custom shop orders.

    I was speaking generally to off the rack sets , consistency and one would expect they are getting what they advertise and pay for from a specifications point of view but as has been discussed here over and over, it's not the case and to do it would price the clubs out of what most would be willing to pay.

    Ideally, if somebody is serious about golf and wants exacting equipment they need to see a good club builder/fitter.

    Ah right. We are saying/thinking the same thing. There's a good chance it might be worth doing in my driver and 3 wood. Maybe even 5 wood. Beyond that, I see diminishing returns for my skill level, 10 handicap
    Last edited by Kessly Snipes; Jan 12, 2017, 09:30 AM.
    Callaway Blayne Standbag:
    TaylorMade M1 9.5*
    TaylorMade Burner Superfast 2.0 3w 15*
    TaylorMade R15 5w 19*
    TaylorMade RBZ Stage 1 TP 3 Hybrid
    Taykormade Speesburner 5 Hybrid
    5-AW TaylorMade RocketBladez
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 - 54* and 58*
    Scott Cameron Newport 2 - Super Stroke 3.0 Slim
    Srixion Z-Star XV

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    • #47
      Re: Driver Fitting Cost

      Originally posted by bl8d View Post
      Consider this.
      a big reason Titleist disavows the need to Pure their mass produced "for Titleist" shafts is that the licence fee to Pure is more than Titleist pays someone to produce the "made for" shaft.
      Russ Ryden has measured the "made for" or what is now called the Plus Series Diamana's and has stated the radial consistency is extremely good.

      A shaft with high radial consistency could still be SST Pured but it might be extremely difficult to quantify the effect.
      Taylormade Stealth Plus 9o Fujikura Ventus Blue 6x
      Titleist TSR3 15o Fujikura Rombax P95x
      Titleist TSi3 Hybrid 18 Fujikura Ventus Blue 10x
      Titleist T200 4 Iron Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX 90x
      Titleist T100 5-PW DG AMT White X100
      Vokey SM8 50, 54 & 58
      Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2

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      • #48
        Re: Driver Fitting Cost

        Originally posted by Weirfan View Post
        several of the best shafts I have ever used never cost more than $50 USD
        We drew the same conclusion as you did Peter.

        My best player is using a new shaft from 2009 model year I paid $25 USD for.
        It replaced the 2004 shaft from the same manufacturer that cost $80 CAD
        Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
        Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
        Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

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        • #49
          Re: Driver Fitting Cost

          Originally posted by Tintin View Post
          It does if you're dealing with a crappy shaft. If the frequency one way is 250 cpm and 260 the other way for example you are dealing with one full flex difference. And the only way to find out is to have it measured in a frequency meter. A bad shaft will wobble significantly when twanged.
          Titleist is into golf clubheads not shafts.
          Great video thanks for posting Tintin.

          There were a few clubmakers from Spinetalkers forum back about 15 years ago who wanted the crappy shaft with a large frequency differential. Once properly aligned they were called Super Shafts. I was active on the group for about 7 years and one of the early members.

          My worst shaft I like to show others, had a frequency differential of 15 cpm or 1.5 flexes.
          Last edited by TourIQ; Jan 12, 2017, 12:30 AM.
          Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
          Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
          Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Driver Fitting Cost

            Originally posted by bl8d View Post
            Consider this.
            a big reason Titleist disavows the need to Pure their mass produced "for Titleist" shafts is that the licence fee to Pure is more than Titleist pays someone to produce the "made for" shaft.
            and they don't want to admit there might be a problem with the millions of drivers already sold
            Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
            Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
            Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Driver Fitting Cost

              Originally posted by Tintin View Post
              It does if you're dealing with a crappy shaft. If the frequency one way is 250 cpm and 260 the other way for example you are dealing with one full flex difference. And the only way to find out is to have it measured in a frequency meter. A bad shaft will wobble significantly when twanged.
              Titleist is into golf clubheads not shafts

              Great demonstration of the shaft inconsistencies one can see.
              WITB: clubs, balls, tees, Advil and a candlestick (just in case)

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              • #52
                Re: Driver Fitting Cost

                Originally posted by Jasonp View Post
                again I say...tour vans and tour pros do not use this process. They are in the business of winning matches.

                Again the process and demo is cool...but we are human not machines we do not swing a shaft in perfect plane with the face every single time.
                I'm surprised a TLT guy like yourself wouldn’t be at least on board with this concept.

                Didn't you have your irons cut down to 38.1'' and marvel at the difference?
                Last edited by Element; Jan 12, 2017, 08:28 AM.

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                • #53
                  Re: Driver Fitting Cost

                  And the only way to find out is to have it measured in a frequency meter
                  I should have mentioned the SST pure machine and the NF4 and mostly the S3

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                  • #54
                    Re: Driver Fitting Cost

                    I will apologize now clearly I was somewhat wrong. I only speak from experience from what I've seen and friends have seen on tour vans. And as I said a coworker/friend grew up with the hendersons and knows them personally.

                    Regardless would I have this done myself if I got a driver fitting sure just to have it done. Would I do it for every iron no way unless it was free.

                    World renowned clubmaker and fitter Tom Wishon has even said the alleged benefits are none for the majority of players who have an early to mid release. Some with a later release may or may not have some benefits but he has yet to find them in his testing.

                    I've tried a buddies set of pured clubs. I notice no difference (irons) if it was a non steel shaft I could see.

                    Again I can't remember who it was that said it. But the concept is great and makes sense however we all load shafts differently, swing differently, transition and release differently.

                    Sst pure and FLO stabilize the shaft in its square playing position. Ain't gonna do much if you're loading the shaft on a different axis due to your OTT or severe inside swing.

                    Here's a simple test which I've done take a FLO or SST pured shaft. Set it up and twang it not directly straight back... simulate the way ud load the shaft.

                    FLO and pure have merits to me. The benefit I feel to it would be very similar to SL or TLT. Ensuring every single club has the exact same feel. If the feel gives better results sure. I can see it ensuring every club feels the same. But not at 25$/clubhead. That's a joke.
                    Last edited by Jasonp; Jan 13, 2017, 08:46 AM.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Driver Fitting Cost

                      Every new build I work on will have the shafts checked for spine and set to FLO. Then the shafts will go through my True Frequency Technology sorting program, where I measure up to 65% of the shaft to determine if deviations are not only at the grip end but down through the length of the shaft. You can have a frequency matched set at the grip but down through the length of the shaft can live a great deal of variance.

                      The program sorts the shafts from weakest to stiffest (even though they are suppose to be the same) and then they get assigned to the clubheads - longest to shortest. This sort will allow the long irons to get up slightly easier and keep the short iron down a tad by having the slightly stiffer profile in the wedges.

                      Shafts are trimmed for the dry fit - then retested for FLO as removing material from the ends of the shaft can have an effect on FLO.

                      All this is typically done for $10 / shaft which I feel is a very reasonable investment into the set of clubs you expect to lay - every round.

                      Is this work over the top and unnecessary - I really don't think so due to all the variation I have seen over the years - with inexpensive and very high end shafts. Deviations live in all these product, and I want to offer the best product I can. By going the extra steps I feel I am delivering a superior product as the feedback I continually get is nothing but positive.

                      Is FLO absolutely necessary - not sure - I have no proof, but my engineering and metrology background tells me that by eliminating every variable I can should produce a very consistent product. For sure the shafts that wobble all over the place within the very first cycle cannot produce consistency in delivering the clubhead to the ball. I firmly believe that these shafts are partially responsible for many of the toe and heel hits you see on clubs. Absolutely a sound swing helps, but the equipment still need to be right and by reducing variability I see no down side.
                      Regards
                      Dan

                      True Length Technology TM
                      Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
                      True Frequency Technology TM
                      - Developer / Owner

                      Maltby Clubmaking Academy
                      - Master
                      Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
                      - Advanced / Professional
                      Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
                      - Class 'A'

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                      • #56
                        Re: Driver Fitting Cost

                        Ok dan I'd have no problem paying u 10$ per club for that. Also in that 10$ you're also frequency matching and sorting. You're completing an added feature at almost 1/3rd the cost.

                        Also for your price I'm sure it's built into your new build price. As thats part of ur build and a much more reasonable price. But 25$ is steep for what most places charge for pure.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Driver Fitting Cost

                          Originally posted by Gridiron View Post
                          Totally agree. And right now if you get a fitting with one of TXG's trainee's the fitting is free.
                          https://twitter.com/theofficialtxg/s...507904?lang=en
                          Thanks for the heads up! I went in today.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Driver Fitting Cost

                            Originally posted by Jasonp View Post
                            World renowned clubmaker and fitter has even said the alleged benefits are none for the majority of players who have an early to mid release. Some with a later release may or may not have some benefits but he has yet to find them in his testing.
                            I do not think release has much to do with it. The shaft is in motion, and if the shaft is in a wobble state, then centre contact will be off the screws.
                            This leads to dispersion increase and loss of distance.

                            Think of it this way. If you put a driver on a robot which demonstrated repeatability to hit the exact centre of the face, then built 2 drivers:
                            - Driver A has shaft aligned away from NBP/FLO so its a wobbler when twanged - % Error attributed to the club alone might be 2.0%
                            - Driver B with same shaft + NBP/FLO perfectly aligned so no jumping off X-Y plane - % Error attributed to the club alone might be 0.2%

                            Wouldn't Driver A exhibit increased '% Error" (10X's more than Driver B) with loss of accuracy and resulting distance?
                            This could also be demonstrated by virtue of a larger strike zone on the face if checked using impact tape.

                            Driver B (1.8% less % Error) would be longer and straighter all day, regardless of handicap level.

                            Obviously I made up the #'s to illustrate the concept.
                            Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
                            Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
                            Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Driver Fitting Cost

                              Originally posted by Laicha View Post
                              If you believe what Titleist states, Pure doesn't improve performance.
                              Titleist knows quite a lot about golf. Even though they don't make shafts you'd think selling a set that performs well would be in their self interest.

                              Originally posted by TourIQ View Post
                              I do not think release has much to do with it. The shaft is in motion, and if the shaft is in a wobble state, then centre contact will be off the screws.
                              This leads to dispersion increase and loss of distance.

                              Think of it this way. If you put a driver on a robot which demonstrated repeatability to hit the exact centre of the face, then built 2 drivers:
                              - Driver A has shaft aligned away from NBP/FLO so its a wobbler when twanged - % Error attributed to the club alone might be 2.0%
                              - Driver B with same shaft + NBP/FLO perfectly aligned so no jumping off X-Y plane - % Error attributed to the club alone might be 0.2%

                              Wouldn't Driver A exhibit increased '% Error" (10X's more than Driver B) with loss of accuracy and resulting distance?
                              .
                              1) Wouldn't there be an equal chance of losing or gaining distance from the wobble?

                              2) Has anyone done the test you proposed? I'd be very curious to see the results of that. Watching one laser beam wobble versus another that doesn't sure looks like an issue, but doesn't confirm that it transfers to actual golf use. The results of that test would also show the amount of the problem. Is it 1 or 2 yards? Or 10-20 yards.
                              Last edited by Ignatius Reilly; Jan 13, 2017, 08:45 AM.
                              "Confusion" will be my epitaph
                              ...Iggy

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Driver Fitting Cost

                                Originally posted by TourIQ View Post
                                I do not think release has much to do with it. The shaft is in motion, and if the shaft is in a wobble state, then centre contact will be off the screws.
                                This leads to dispersion increase and loss of distance.

                                Think of it this way. If you put a driver on a robot which demonstrated repeatability to hit the exact centre of the face, then built 2 drivers:
                                - Driver A has shaft aligned away from NBP/FLO so its a wobbler when twanged - % Error attributed to the club alone might be 2.0%
                                - Driver B with same shaft + NBP/FLO perfectly aligned so no jumping off X-Y plane - % Error attributed to the club alone might be 0.2%

                                Wouldn't Driver A exhibit increased '% Error" (10X's more than Driver B) with loss of accuracy and resulting distance?
                                This could also be demonstrated by virtue of a larger strike zone on the face if checked using impact tape.

                                Driver B (1.8% less % Error) would be longer and straighter all day, regardless of handicap level.

                                Obviously I made up the #'s to illustrate the concept.
                                Again I'm just restating what I read in a Tom Wishon article

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