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$300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

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  • #16
    Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

    Originally posted by Special_K
    Great work Harry... you put some numbers on what I have always suspected, especially after hitting some of these sets (i've hit the fake Nike Slingshots, Ping G2, Taylormade R580). Did you, by any chance, freq the shafts? All over the place as well?
    Thanks Special_K

    I'm glad you liked the research. You need to open the 1st attached file, this shows ALL of the data collected [the good, the bad, and the ugly]

    There is a column titled [ Freq. cpm ] with all of the frequency / flex numbers.

    For example:
    > the Driver > 238 [6.2] = 238 cpm with grip on [6.2 flex = 3 cpm under Stiff-flex]
    > the 4-Iron > 282 [4.3] = 282 cpm with grip on [4.3 flex = 2 cpm under Senior-flex]
    > the 9-Iron > 315 [5.6] = 315 cpm with grip on [5.6 flex = 1 cpm over Regular-flex]

    All DATA COLOUR CODED RED is out of SPECIFICATION. Lots of RED
    Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
    Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
    Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

      hi harry,
      nice six-sigma project. DMAIC.you've documented much thus far DMA, now to "I"....
      now if someone had a set of counterfeits, purchased intentionally (eg. the plastic surgeon clearing $half-mill per year and requesting a set from the far east) or otherwise, is there any 'reworking' of these clubs to improve their consistency and thereby performance ... eg. bending to adjust for proper lofts, adjusting swing weights, strategic use of lead tape/powder, drilling out some material, etc..

      what i'm askin' is, if someone spends $100 for a set of TM counterfeits, could he take it to a clubmaker and for another $200 have them 'reworked' to better-than-OEM-factory-off-the-shelf?? (i've heard several times about the inconsistency even in OEM off-the-shelf clubs)

      thanks.
      Last edited by iyell4; Jun 25, 2007, 07:57 AM.
      PING G2 10°... Callaway Steelhead 3W ... Mizuno Fli-Hi 21° ... Callaway X-14 PS ... Cleveland 588 RTG 53° & 57° ... PING Anser3 ... Maxfli Noodle ... Sun Mountain C-130

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

        Originally posted by iyell4
        hi harry,
        nice six-sigma project. DMAIC.you've documented much thus far DMA, now to "I"....
        now if someone had a set of counterfeits, purchased intentionally (eg. the plastic surgeon clearing $half-mill per year and requesting a set from the far east) or otherwise, is there any 'reworking' of these clubs to improve their consistency and thereby performance ... eg. bending to adjust for proper lofts, adjusting swing weights etc..

        what i'm askin' is, if someone spends $100 for a set of TM counterfeits, could he take it to a clubmaker and for another $200 have them 'reworked' to better-than-OEM-factory-off-the-shelf?? (i've heard several times about the inconsistency even in OEM off-the-shelf clubs)

        thanks.
        When I hit fakes, each club "felt" different to me. I suspect the consistency of the metal is way off as well. I also wonder what kind of metal they use in their heads. If this is true, can't fix it!
        WITB:
        Driver: Cleveland Classic 290(Miyazaki)
        3W: Callaway XR Pro 3 Deep 14* (Diamana 70 I'Lima)
        2H: Adams Pro Gold(Matrix Ozik Altus)
        4-PW: Callaway X-Prototype (Aerotech Steelfiber I95)
        56: Callaway X-Forged (Dynamic Gold)
        60: Callaway X-Forged (Rifle Spinner)
        Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport Mid Slant Pro Platinum

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

          Originally posted by TourIQ
          Note: The 3-Iron will probably break if adjusted for loft to factory specifications?

          partially answers my question.
          PING G2 10°... Callaway Steelhead 3W ... Mizuno Fli-Hi 21° ... Callaway X-14 PS ... Cleveland 588 RTG 53° & 57° ... PING Anser3 ... Maxfli Noodle ... Sun Mountain C-130

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

            Originally posted by iyell4
            partially answers my question.
            Hi iyell4 > it blew me away when I measured the 3-Iron at 29* loft and the 6-Iron at 30* loft
            I'm afraid the 3-Iron would not cooperate being bent a full 9* of loft.
            Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
            Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
            Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

              Originally posted by TourIQ
              $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

              No these are not my clubs . I only measured each club for consistency over a complete set.

              I check the quality level of a $300 TaylorMade RAC OS [Counterfeit] iron set from China.
              All 12 shafts were graphite TAYLORMADE R5 SERIES M.A.S2 60, R FLEX [again Counterfeit].

              12 clubs, plus all of the accessories [staff bag, shoe bag, head covers, etc.].
              The guy who owns them looked real good on the course with his buddies, and he has few dollars invested.
              Only a few minor problems to report:
              Ø The 4-Iron [24.5° loft] hits longer than does the 3-Iron [29.0° loft]
              Note: The 3-Iron will probably break if adjusted for loft to factory specifications
              Ø The S-Wedge [51.5° loft] hits a similar distance to the matching 9-iron [51.0° loft]
              Ø The 9-Iron is off on lie angle by a full 4.0°, which will greatly impact directional control
              Ø A full 5.0 swingweight point spread between the 4-Iron [C8.9] vs. the 7-Iron [D3.9]
              Ø Other problems highlighted – refer to the attached file
              He also reported he hits the 3 woods [driver + fairway metals] real good but the 5-Wood is a
              little short on distance compared to its 3-Metal counterpart. The driver has good distance and control.

              Pertaining to this set of counterfeit TM RAC OS irons [3 to SW], a total of
              17 of 45 specifications are out of tolerance, for a defect rate of 37.8% or 377,778 ppm.
              Now the $42 question … how might these irons actually play?

              The owner is entering his 2nd season playing these counterfeit clubs, results of which Increased HIS Stroke Aveage by 10 .

              This set will yield significant yardage gap discrepancies club-to-club. % Error [dispersion] will be huge if tested on a mechanical robot. He went from low 90’s to low 100’s after putting this TaylorMade Counterfeit
              set into play.


              Buyer Beware. If the deal is too good to be true, it probably is

              Have you ever had your set checked for its ‘Quality Consistency’ over the compete set, to
              determine potential problems with Accuracy and Control?
              Another selling point for component equipment. I highly doubt they will ever make cheap copies of Snake Eyes stuff!
              WHAT SITS ON MY CLIC-GEAR
              Alpha Golf C830.4 SP700 Plasma 10* Platinum 65 gr
              Alpha Golf Version 5 3wd 15* Platinum 65gr
              Alpha Golf C830 19* Platinum 60 gr
              Alpha C2 Fly 4- G/W Platinum 60 gr
              Snake Eyes 675 WB 54* & 58* FST 90 gr
              Heavy Putter A1 33"
              " The secret is in the dirt "....... Ben Hogan

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

                Originally posted by hogannut
                Another selling point for component equipment. I highly doubt they will ever make cheap copies of Snake Eyes stuff!
                Golfsmith doesn't keep their original designs around long enough for the Chinese to even copy their designs
                Once the GS Tour Cavity in MLH was discontinued after only 10 months and it was a great head
                Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
                Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
                Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

                  Originally posted by ysong00
                  I would never ever buy a 12 piece set of brand name clubs.. you see so many on craigslist too, trying to sell them for $900 when they costed less than $200. Pathetic ppl
                  Hi ysong00

                  The OEM Name Brands and the Police need to clamp down on this market locally. In the USA if a parcel crosses a state boarder via USPS it is then a Federal offense. If I unknowlingly bought a counterfeit item [which happens on occasion from eBay], then I want it shipped via USPS, so I have more clout to get them arrested and stopped from ripping off other people. Apparently if its shipped via courier [FedEX, UPS] then the same laws do not apply. I never did the research but read it somewhere on another forum.
                  Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
                  Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
                  Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

                    Originally posted by TourIQ
                    Hi Neil

                    You nailed it reincarnated . It's not about saving or losing a few dollars, it's about performance or lack thereof. I could care less if someone had a $3,000 set or only spent $300 or less. Regardless if it's Name Brand or Counterfeit, the China company making the product is only paying their workers $250 USD / month or less

                    You rarely meet a golfer who doesn't keep score, as this is how the game is played. Most play for fun and the potential of a low round or personal best score, hitting their goal(s) which validates their own improvement. Funny thing about low scores, they don't happen frequent enough

                    The guy who now owns these China Counterfeits played 20-year old irons before this new set, so they probably had small heads and were harder to hit. His Stroke Average climbed 10 with the new set. He could probably shave a full 15 strokes off his game with new dialled-in equipment.
                    He could shoot mid-to-high 80's instead of his current low 100's.
                    Yes Neil, the 'Performance Aspect' as you had stated. Who doesn't love to shoot lower scores, or get significantly more pars and birdies?

                    The other point is this. What % of the golfers actually know the Actual Quality Characteristics [length, swingweight, frequency, total weight, loft, lie, etc.] of EACH CLUB in their BAG? How many golfers are not getting the full entitlement out of their game which their personal skill and ability has to offer?

                    Hi nearace

                    Sorry to say there is no guarantee that you are getting what you paid for
                    Until each club is validated as to its #'s and compared to the rest of the set, you may
                    not know if you have a quality set or a low quality set plagued with chronic performance issues.


                    I have never seen a golfer buy a Certifed Set of Name Brand Clubs , so even with the Name Brand I guess it is BUYER BEWARE
                    \


                    Wow impressive.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

                      Great Report Harry,

                      It amazes me how some people knowingly buy this stuff and think they are getting the same specs as the originals!

                      Well, come to think of it, in many cases they are!

                      Support you local Club Builder!
                      JIM
                      Kona Golf Sales




                      WIB-

                      What Day is it?

                      But Be Sure They Will Be
                      TLT & TFT & Spined /Flo'd
                      Single Length Irons and Hybrids

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

                        When you think of it, the person who spends $250 for a fake set is not going to spend over $2k for a real set.

                        I personally would not buy knock offs, I change my clubs every three years, so for every dollar I spend on equipment I spend $7 on green fees and memberships.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

                          where can i buy a set here in gta? clubs are way over-priced. how can tm justify selling $5 of iron and plastic for $500, and that's for one club. imagine if a hockey stick cost that much and if you needed a different hockey stick for a different shot? dam!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

                            Originally posted by Kona Golf
                            Great Report Harry, Well, come to think of it, in many cases they are!
                            Great 'one-liner' KGS, and how very true
                            Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
                            Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
                            Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

                              Originally posted by btowngolfer
                              where can i buy a set here in gta? clubs are way over-priced. how can tm justify selling $5 of iron and plastic for $500, and that's for one club. imagine if a hockey stick cost that much and if you needed a different hockey stick for a different shot? dam!
                              Because actual manufacturing costs is a small portion of their total cost.

                              And you can spend $250 on one hockey stick. I don't see how that is different...that's a $2,000 set of hockey sticks if you had to have eight of them.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

                                manufacturing costs are not a good gauge to determine the value of a product. You pay for the research that goes into developing outstanding products. If you don't want to pay for outstanding products and buy knockoffs then why not by used or low end products.

                                There are many examples of products where the manufacturing costs has no relationship on the price: books - paper and ink, CDs, DVDs,software,...

                                Buying knockoffs is like pirating - its an ethical choice that everyone must make on their own.

                                Comment

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