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What my TLT set looks like...

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  • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

    Originally posted by ARL67 View Post
    My previous 4i lie angle was 58*. It will now be 58.7*
    Because of the increase in lie, the length shortens up ~ 0.25"

    My previous 5i lie angle was 59*. It will now be 59.6*
    Because of the increase in lie, the length shortens up ~ 0.20"
    ... and so on down the bag to PW

    ~ Andy
    Not sure I understand correctly. Making a club more upright makes the club longer not shorter. 1* upright on a good mesuring device equals 1/16th of an inch(
    0.06 Inches)
    Or did you mean that the length was reduced 0.20
    and he bent the lie .7 of a degree more upright to make up for the shorter shaft?



    [

    Comment


    • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

      Making a club more upright makes its vertical height off the ground longer.

      Your last sentence has you looking at the change from a length point of view, but the result is the same.
      As you stated, reducing length by 0.25" requires an increase of 0.7* in lie to maintain the same athletic stance.
      Dan's math model is driven by lie angle. We plug in a lie increase of 0.7* and it tells us the club length will be 0.25" shorter.

      Imagine I have my 4i in hand and am in my athletic stance.
      Then imagine I am frozen still and the 4i head is frozen to the ground.
      Bend the shaft upright. It no longer sits in my hands, and the handle is away from me and higher up.
      Unfreeze the head from the ground and slide the entire club towards me until fits in my hands. You will need to butt trim the shaft to get me in the same grip position. The toe of the 4i head will also now be a bit closer to me too.

      So our stance with club in hand defines a right angled triangle.

      1. Traditional sets are based both on length increments of 0.5" and 0.5* lie change per club, but I'll choose the length increment as the driving factor. But there is no trigonometric relationship between clubs as our hand & stance position need to change for each club.

      2. TLT sets are driven by the lie angle increments as the driving factor ( as I've seen in Dan's spreadsheet ) in a trigonemetric relationship between clubs. In my initial MP-53 set, each club 4-PW had 1.0* lie change. We pick the lie, the length is calculated for us for our same athletic stance. My tweak to this MP-53 set is that we are making the lie increment now 1.1* per club, thus shortening each club, starting at the new shorter 4i length ( based on an 0.7* increase in its lie ).

      3. Still another person / method may feel the distance of the toe increments away from them should be the driving factor in a trigonemetric relationship between clubs. Maybe they want each successive club to be 0.25" farther away from them ?

      Anyway, my visit to Dan was enlightening in thinking about club make-up where lie angle increments are the starting point.
      Last edited by ARL67; Nov 22, 2016, 10:46 PM.
      🍍 2023 WITB 🍍​
      Bag | Titleist Hybrid-5 Stand Bag
      Titleist TSi2 10* | Miyazaki Kusala Black 61x or UST LIN-Q White M40X 6F3
      Titleist TSR1 20* & 26* Hybrid | Evenflow White 90S
      Edel SMS Pro 5-PW | Steelfiber i110cw-S
      Edel SMS GW & LW | Steelfiber i110cw-S

      Putter | Mizuno OMOI-03 Nickel Finish, stock grip
      Grips | All Clubs With CP2 Wrap Jumbo

      Comment


      • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

        Originally posted by ARL67 View Post
        Imagine I have my 4i in hand and am in my athletic stance.
        Then imagine I am frozen still and the 4i head is frozen to the ground.
        Bend the shaft upright. It no longer sits in my hands, and the handle is away from me and higher up.
        Unfreeze the head from the ground and slide the entire club towards me until fits in my hands. You will need to butt trim the shaft to get me in the same grip position. The toe of the 4i head will also now be a bit closer to me too.
        .
        Ok now I get what you"re saying. This article explains it well


        Lie
        Golf club lie also has an effect on the length as well. The diagram on the right shows the “Triangle” formed by the length of the club (A), distance in the vertical direction from the butt end of the golf grip to the ground (B) and the horizontal distance from the back edge of the heel of the club to butt end of the club (C).In the following charts, the lie angle of each club will be listed as well.

        By altering the lie of the club, a manufacturer could theoretically change the B length.Below in the chart are 4 clubs that are the same length, but different lie angles.For each 1° increase in the lie angle, the butt end raised approximately 1/3” off of the ground with the center of the sole touching the ground.In lieu of making the club longer to accommodate a taller individual or one with a high WTF measurement, some golf clubmakers may opt to change the lie angle.

        Comment


        • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

          Dan's chart midway down his page explains it too:

          🍍 2023 WITB 🍍​
          Bag | Titleist Hybrid-5 Stand Bag
          Titleist TSi2 10* | Miyazaki Kusala Black 61x or UST LIN-Q White M40X 6F3
          Titleist TSR1 20* & 26* Hybrid | Evenflow White 90S
          Edel SMS Pro 5-PW | Steelfiber i110cw-S
          Edel SMS GW & LW | Steelfiber i110cw-S

          Putter | Mizuno OMOI-03 Nickel Finish, stock grip
          Grips | All Clubs With CP2 Wrap Jumbo

          Comment


          • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

            Originally posted by ARL67 View Post
            I had a great visit with Dan yesterday, about 3 sets of TLT irons I have on the go.

            For starters we are shortening my current TLT MP-53 set.
            I wanted to take 0.25" off my 4-iron, leave my wedges at the same current length, and tweak the rest of the clubs length down the bag accordingly to Dan's "secret formula". I extrapolated my own length chart based on my current set's measurements that Dan provided last year.

            Of great interest:
            Whereas I previously thought of my set purely from a length standpoint from club-to-club, Dan thinks of it from a lie angle standpoint from club-to-club. The math works out nearly the same, but from a totally different viewpoint ! Dan bends his clubs to 1/10th of a degree.

            My previous 4i lie angle was 58*. It will now be 58.7*
            Because of the increase in lie, the length shortens up ~ 0.25"

            My previous 5i lie angle was 59*. It will now be 59.6*
            Because of the increase in lie, the length shortens up ~ 0.20"
            ... and so on down the bag to PW

            So as one maintains their same athletic stance, the club moves either slightly closer to you ( shorter irons ) or slightly farther away from you ( longer irons ) in your stance. I never really completely clued into this perspective of club-building -> lie angle is King !

            ~ Andy
            Your adjustments seem miniscule to me,3 sets of tlt on the go ,what's the difference between the 3 ?

            Comment


            • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

              Yes, ultimately the changes are very small, but since we do have the ability to dial in perfection, why not ?

              I will have 3 TLT sets, though I need 2 for 2 locations, and 1 set to pass on to my young athletic strong son.

              1. JPX-900 Forged with Accra 110i will be my daily gamers at home

              2. MP-4 with Steelfiber i110CW will be my fun set for our summer place at Owen Sound -> there is nothing like the feel of hitting a Mizzy blade

              3. MP-53 with KBS V 125 will go to my son.
              In my old age, I developed a lot of left elbow pain this season probably from the XX-Stiffness.
              I never had any elbow pain the previous year when I gamed Steelfibers all that season. I'm a graphite guy now.

              As much as I fool around with Drivers and FW and Hybrids year in year out, I don't futz with irons and wedges once they are set.
              Dan won't be seeing me for a long time after these builds.
              Last edited by ARL67; Nov 23, 2016, 03:22 PM.
              🍍 2023 WITB 🍍​
              Bag | Titleist Hybrid-5 Stand Bag
              Titleist TSi2 10* | Miyazaki Kusala Black 61x or UST LIN-Q White M40X 6F3
              Titleist TSR1 20* & 26* Hybrid | Evenflow White 90S
              Edel SMS Pro 5-PW | Steelfiber i110cw-S
              Edel SMS GW & LW | Steelfiber i110cw-S

              Putter | Mizuno OMOI-03 Nickel Finish, stock grip
              Grips | All Clubs With CP2 Wrap Jumbo

              Comment


              • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

                Originally posted by ARL67 View Post
                Dan's chart midway down his page explains it too:

                http://www.danscustomgolfshop.com/tlt-and-tft.html
                I like this page for a better understanding of length and lies and how one affects the other. If you review all the scenario's and look at the section that shows 1/2" length change and 1/2* lie change (slides 4 and 5) - over the coarse of the set you can end up with over 6* of lie error with the longest club. Nobody hits these well.

                Regards
                Dan

                True Length Technology TM
                Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
                True Frequency Technology TM
                - Developer / Owner

                Maltby Clubmaking Academy
                - Master
                Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
                - Advanced / Professional
                Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
                - Class 'A'

                Comment


                • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

                  Originally posted by nearace View Post
                  Your adjustments seem miniscule to me,3 sets of tlt on the go ,what's the difference between the 3 ?
                  Some of the changes do seem small, but Andy is (and should be) very passionate about specifications and tight tolerances. The original set I built for him were on steel and they have began to give him a little bit of elbow pain, so we also have added Prosoft inserts to reduce shock.

                  The problem was he still found the original TLT 3 and 4 iron still slightly too long, where he hit his 5 extremely well - so the decision to reduce the 2 longest clubs were made out of necessity for a shorter more repeatable length. The remaining clubs down to the 9 iron were also reduced slightly - just to keep a TLT progression smoothed out. Set 1 is done and turned out fantastic. These were Mizuno MP 53's. Some may consider these alterations a little over the top, but I assure you the set is now dialed in and will be an outstanding set.

                  The second set I believe is bound for his cottage. Mizuno MP4's on Steelfibre 110's. This set is a complete rebuild to tighten all the tolerances and turn this set into a very forgiving blade, on controlled lengths - only with graphite to help with some past elbow pain.

                  Set 3 is heads to be determined) will be an UBER set - all with ACCRA I series 110g tour shafts and. There will be no stone unturned on this build as these will be his new gamers. All shafts will be fine tuned using True Frequency Technology for a much tighter shaft profile including a stable spine position as well as tight FLO.

                  Andy is very meticulous in his requests and so am I in my builds. This will be one fantastic build as everything has been considered and will be implemented into this build. All 3 sets will be very consistent when reviewing length and lie - all built to a TLT Series 7 - dialed in as a reduced length build with somewhere in the neighborhood of 2" total length differential between his longest and shortest irons - with constant length wedges.
                  Regards
                  Dan

                  True Length Technology TM
                  Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
                  True Frequency Technology TM
                  - Developer / Owner

                  Maltby Clubmaking Academy
                  - Master
                  Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
                  - Advanced / Professional
                  Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
                  - Class 'A'

                  Comment


                  • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

                    Originally posted by ARL67 View Post

                    Of great interest:
                    Whereas I previously thought of my set purely from a length standpoint from club-to-club, Dan thinks of it from a lie angle standpoint from club-to-club. The math works out nearly the same, but from a totally different viewpoint ! Dan bends his clubs to 1/10th of a degree.
                    The poor man's way of doing it:




                    The rich man's way of doing it

                    Comment


                    • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

                      Originally posted by Tintin View Post
                      The poor man's way of doing it:




                      The rich man's way of doing it

                      Nice Johnson
                      "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

                      Comment


                      • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

                        There must be an app for that.

                        Comment


                        • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

                          Here is my golf bling as done by Dan. Absolutely love it. Had a set retrofitted last couple of years. But this year just asked him to build me my uber set. Would never go back to the old style again. Wishon woods, hybrids and wedges, Maltby irons and snake eyes putter.
                          Last edited by L8NVR; Mar 25, 2017, 09:23 PM.
                          Enjoy life NOW ladies and gentlemen, there is no second time around.

                          Comment


                          • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

                            Originally posted by L8NVR View Post
                            Here is my golf bling as done by Dan. Absolutely love it. Had a set retrofitted last couple of years. But this year just asked him to build me my uber set. Would never go back to the old style again. Wishon woods, hybrids and wedges, Maltby irons and snake eyes putter.
                            Great sticks.... I've looked at those Maltby heads before.

                            I was looking through Wishon's site trying to see what wedges we're available in left. I like that style alot... looks great.
                            Bag: PING Hoofer Camo / Moonlite Floral
                            Driver: TM SIM2 MAX @ 10.5*
                            Wood: TM SIM2 MAX @ 15*
                            Hybrids: TM SIM2 22*
                            Irons: Wishon Sterling SL 6-SW
                            Wedge: KZG Forged TRS Grind 60*
                            Putter: SGC WB Northwood
                            Lovingly built by: Dan's Custom Golf

                            Comment


                            • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

                              Originally posted by Tintin View Post
                              The poor man's way of doing it:


                              The rich man's way of doing it
                              I use a $25 digital angle finder on my Mitchel L&L machine. Works great to 0.1* resolution.
                              Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
                              Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
                              Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

                              Comment


                              • Re: What my TLT set looks like...

                                Just an update. Got in my 7th round ever with TLT. Yes I know I'm crazy playing end of Nov in 3C. Played Bantys Roost Today.

                                I just tied my all time low of 80. The last time I shot 80 was back in August and it was my only other time. But that 80 was due to lights out putting. (Think I had 26 to 27 putts only)

                                Today my 80 was pure ballstriking and short game.
                                I had 33putts today to compare the two rounds.

                                I only hit 4fairways (driver wasn't going straight tons of hooks) yet I had a 9 GIR

                                My iron striking and ability to get up and down was impeccable. I think I messed up one 7 iron shot (fat as could be) and hit a few chips that were a touch to hit.

                                I can guarantee next season I will be shooting low 80s consistently and breaking 80.

                                I'm usually a low 90s to high 80s player before

                                ***edit***
                                I was also hitting every iron 10-20y further then I would in peak summer temps. (I was told that u can expect about 8-10y less when it's below 5C)
                                Typically my 8iron was my 145y-150y carry. Yah was carrying it 160-170y easily.

                                Pw used to be my 110-120y was good for 130y easy every time. My contact was that crisp
                                Last edited by Jasonp; Nov 26, 2016, 10:03 PM.

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