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Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

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  • #16
    Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

    "Oriental" has been considered offensive by a great many in the Asian community for as long as I can remember. There are some differences of opinion -- some are not offended by it, but there are many who are. Probably most are. For anyone in public office to be unaware of this is absolutely astonishing.

    I'm married into an Asian family, and I've long had very close friends who are Asian, from different backgrounds. "Oriental" is fine when it's an adjective describing an object. "Oriental" as a noun indicating a person's ethinicity is considered offensive.

    But it wasn't just use of the word "Orientals", it was the application of a stereotype. Remember, too, that Ford was talking about the "Orientals" in a way that compared Asian-Canadians to the rest of us ... as if they're a separate nation entirely. He was dividing the community into ethnic chunks, as if there are Canadians/Torontonians, and there are Asians.

    It was NOT just opposing councillors who objected -- it was people in the Asian community. Opinions varied between those who felt it was completely insulting and those who felt it WAS meant as a compliment but was worded terribly. I don't know that anyone said, "hey, no big deal. Thanks for the kudos, Rob!" And people certainly didn't take kindly to being portrayed as "taking over".

    And as said, it's one incident among many. The "gino" comment. The ACC brouhaha. The AIDs comments. The "get a job" comments. The other indidents myself and others have recounted above. The man comes off as a redneck. Add to this some sort of domestic incident -- who knows what went on? Did he really cause his wife's injuries? Can't say for sure ... but it's doubtful he was completely without fault. Rob Ford is coming off as the sort of guy you see on Cops. (No, not one of the guys in the squad car. At least, not at the beginning of the segment.)

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

      Originally posted by guitarman
      I would hardly call his latest incident involving the Asian remark a racist tirade. This is exactly the type of attitude that makes it so you can't say anything without someone crying foul. His remark,although worded badly, was meant as a compliment. And even though his remark was meant to portray Asians in a good light he shouldn't generalize that they are all good workers no more than generalizing that all blacks or native americans are on welfare. People can have different work ethics or human natures and should not be tied in to those characters simply by race. Of course that was no different then Bob Runcimans latest remark about "Smoke Signals". Myself being a status Native American, I take no offense to it. I've got thicker skin than that. Some just want to whine about every little remark that hurts their itty bitty feelings and some just like to cause turmoil because its their right.
      As far as the public drunken display at the hockey game, that was quite a while ago and Dave Pratt if you're one of the very few that has not found himself in a similar situation at any time in your life then hats off to you. For me, I haven't got he right to throw stones.
      So there is 2 incidents that covering a span of years that mark Rob Fords character. The other 99% of his public exposure is just him pointing out the fiscal irrisponsibility (theft) of the Toronto mayer and council.



      Oh for pete sake this is exactly the kind of media garbage crap your regurgitating that we can do without. He didn't hurl a racial insult just ignorant people want so desperately to make way more out of it than it is. Its about one incident but you want to present it like he goes around on a daily basis as a bigot.
      And the hockey incident happenned once but you also present it like he's known as the ACC alky.
      I don't doubt he's got faults. He's not as perfect as the rest of us. But at least lets be civil enough to give some benefit of the doubt. Yes he's alot more vocal than he should be. As a politician he should know that to be succesful you need to keep your trap shut, know when to speak and maybe nobody will notice your hand in the pocket of tax payers.
      Well Said man well said..i agree with your view 100%!!!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

        Originally posted by Golden Bear
        "Oriental" has been considered offensive by a great many in the Asian community for as long as I can remember. There are some differences of opinion -- some are not offended by it, but there are many who are. Probably most are. For anyone in public office to be unaware of this is absolutely astonishing.

        I'm married into an Asian family, and I've long had very close friends who are Asian, from different backgrounds. "Oriental" is fine when it's an adjective describing an object. "Oriental" as a noun indicating a person's ethinicity is considered offensive.

        But it wasn't just use of the word "Orientals", it was the application of a stereotype. Remember, too, that Ford was talking about the "Orientals" in a way that compared Asian-Canadians to the rest of us ... as if they're a separate nation entirely. He was dividing the community into ethnic chunks, as if there are Canadians/Torontonians, and there are Asians.

        It was NOT just opposing councilors who objected -- it was people in the Asian community. Opinions varied between those who felt it was completely insulting and those who felt it WAS meant as a compliment but was worded terribly. I don't know that anyone said, "hey, no big deal. Thanks for the kudos, Rob!" And people certainly didn't take kindly to being portrayed as "taking over".

        And as said, it's one incident among many. The "gino" comment. The ACC brouhaha. The AIDs comments. The "get a job" comments. The other indidents myself and others have recounted above. The man comes off as a redneck. Add to this some sort of domestic incident -- who knows what went on? Did he really cause his wife's injuries? Can't say for sure ... but it's doubtful he was completely without fault. Rob Ford is coming off as the sort of guy you see on Cops. (No, not one of the guys in the squad car. At least, not at the beginning of the segment.)
        I really resent your use of the term "Redneck" in a negative light. I met some good people while down south that consider themselves "Rednecks" that don't hold the negative views you've associated with it. I think that your ignorance as to the plight of the "Redneck" people is appalling. I demand a public apology on behalf of the redneck people of Tennessee and Georgia.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

          -------------

          To expand on the word "Oriental" -- the reason it is considered offensive is that it's a relic of a bygone era when it was attached to many stereotypes of Asians that were quite hurtful.

          To give some context: A "Chinaman" is someone who builds your railroad. An "Oriental" is someone with a Fu Manchu moustache who speaks in parables, quotes Confuscious, and serves you egg rolls. An "Asian" is a person of Asian descent. It's been that way for quite some time. You'll never offend someone by calling the "Asian". You are likely to offend many by calling them "Oriental" or "Chinaman".

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

            Good point again Guitarman!!! That was exactly the point but funny too!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

              Originally posted by Golden Bear
              -------------

              To expand on the word "Oriental" -- the reason it is considered offensive is that it's a relic of a bygone era when it was attached to many stereotypes of Asians that were quite hurtful.

              To give some context: A "Chinaman" is someone who builds your railroad. An "Oriental" is someone with a Fu Manchu moustache who speaks in parables, quotes Confuscious, and serves you egg rolls. An "Asian" is a person of Asian descent. It's been that way for quite some time. You'll never offend someone by calling the "Asian". You are likely to offend many by calling them "Oriental" or "Chinaman".
              Thats the first time I've ever heard a description of "Oriental", that way. I think this is another generalization.
              I work for a company that is world wide we have many different races working here. Many are of Asian descent. Although I don't really use the term Orientla myself I did ask some of them what they thought. None of them really give it a second thought one way or the other. There are some that just like to raise a commotion for any reason. No Asians that I have come across compare the word Oriental to the "N" word as you seem to be saying.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

                Originally posted by golfpal
                Good point again Guitarman!!! That was exactly the point but funny too!
                Actually, it IS a good point. And it proves my point.

                "Redneck" is derogatory slang. It is listed as such in the dictionary. It has long been derogatory.

                If I was a politician and was saying that our local workers should have the same work ethic as the rednecks who have immigrated from the US south, I'd expect to be fileted for it.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

                  So your whole point was then lost of your story you were trying to convey and the media took off saying you were an insult because you used the word redneck. Accidently but still you did.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

                    Originally posted by guitarman
                    Thats the first time I've ever heard a description of "Oriental", that way. I think this is another generalization.
                    I work for a company that is world wide we have many different races working here. Many are of Asian descent. Although I don't really use the term Orientla myself I did ask some of them what they thought. None of them really give it a second thought one way or the other. There are some that just like to raise a commotion for any reason. No Asians that I have come across compare the word Oriental to the "N" word as you seem to be saying.
                    I guess my wife's family are all liars then. And so are the many Asian friends I've had and continue to have over the years. Or I am. And I guess these people are, too: http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/346424

                    Note that I didn't compare it to the "N" word. There is another word that would be comparable. "Oriental" would be more equivalent to calling someone of African descent "coloured", if that helps.

                    Now, why are people getting so wrapped up on one thing? The Rob Ford apologists are trying to sidestep the multiple incidents in which the blowhard has been way off base. He's got a history of insensitive comments, a history of objectionable behaviour, and now people are pretending no one on earth considers "Oriental" offensive.

                    You're defending Rob Ford against his own words and actions. I can't imagine why anyone would be comfortable with that. He's a buffoon.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

                      Originally posted by Golden Bear
                      Actually, it IS a good point. And it proves my point.

                      "Redneck" is derogatory slang. It is listed as such in the dictionary. It has long been derogatory.

                      If I was a politician and was saying that our local workers should have the same work ethic as the rednecks who have immigrated from the US south, I'd expect to be fileted for it.
                      The point being made in my post is that everyone has a certain degree of prejidice in them. Sorry you missed that. The biggest problem here is that you and others like to sit on your high stoops and condem for sins you your self commit. Sometimes in order to accomplish this words like "People" and "Oriental" are ridiculously converted to derogatory terms. As golfpal said, we don't know what to say anymore. We no longer know which way to turn for fear of stepping in dog doodoo. Its not just Rob Ford that steps in it. Most recently, bob Runciman. And instead of digging in to Rob Fords past, lets look in to the past of any public person that has been accused of racial slurs. And there will be many many more. Because there are those that keep setting up the booby traps in hopes of snaring another unwary sould that dares to speak publicly. I can see future public speaking engagements by politicians as being, hosted by a team of lawyers up on the latest whims of political correctness to advice them of anything they say.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

                        Originally posted by davepratt
                        I am really really tired of his act.
                        i kinda like his schtick on Oakley in the mornings.
                        PING G2 10°... Callaway Steelhead 3W ... Mizuno Fli-Hi 21° ... Callaway X-14 PS ... Cleveland 588 RTG 53° & 57° ... PING Anser3 ... Maxfli Noodle ... Sun Mountain C-130

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                        • #27
                          Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

                          Originally posted by guitarman
                          The point being made in my post is that everyone has a certain degree of prejidice in them. Sorry you missed that. The biggest problem here is that you and others like to sit on your high stoops and condem for sins you your self commit.
                          Okay. List my sins.

                          Sometimes in order to accomplish this words like "People" and "Oriental" are ridiculously converted to derogatory terms. As golfpal said, we don't know what to say anymore. We no longer know which way to turn for fear of stepping in dog doodoo. Its not just Rob Ford that steps in it. Most recently, bob Runciman. And instead of digging in to Rob Fords past, lets look in to the past of any public person that has been accused of racial slurs. And there will be many many more. Because there are those that keep setting up the booby traps in hopes of snaring another unwary sould that dares to speak publicly. I can see future public speaking engagements by politicians as being, hosted by a team of lawyers up on the latest whims of political correctness to advice them of anything they say.
                          If someone makes one comment because they slipped, didn't understand the nature of a word, etc., that's one thing. Rob Ford is a repeat offender. I can't imagine he didn't know "gino" was offensive. I can't imagine he didn't think there was something offensive about screaming "get a job" to homeless people. I can't imagine he didn't know someone would take being called "waste of skin" in a bad way.

                          What are his redeeming qualities, exactly? That he calls city hall to account but doesn't think he himself should be called to account when he sidesteps policy on filing receipts? Hey, he raises a fuss about waste at city hall, and that's a good thing. I'm not going to argue that. But that seems to be the only thing he's got going for him. He seems to have a lot more bad qualities than good qualities.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

                            Originally posted by Golden Bear
                            I guess my wife's family are all liars then. And so are the many Asian friends I've had and continue to have over the years. Or I am. And I guess these people are, too: http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/346424
                            Well either you and them or me and my Asian contacts.

                            Originally posted by Golden Bear
                            Note that I didn't compare it to the "N" word. There is another word that would be comparable. "Oriental" would be more equivalent to calling someone of African descent "coloured", if that helps.
                            See how complicated it becomes by all this hair splitting. Its not just racial bigotry. You have to make different levels of it.

                            Originally posted by Golden Bear
                            Now, why are people getting so wrapped up on one thing? The Rob Ford apologists are trying to sidestep the multiple incidents in which the blowhard has been way off base. He's got a history of insensitive comments, a history of objectionable behaviour, and now people are pretending no one on earth considers "Oriental" offensive.
                            I've addressed my opinions on all aspects of the Rob Ford subject. It seems the thread has evolved in to this a little deeper. It wouldn't be the first time a thread has evolved like this.

                            Originally posted by Golden Bear
                            You're defending Rob Ford against his own words and actions. I can't imagine why anyone would be comfortable with that. He's a buffoon.
                            I'm not defending Rob Ford. I'm simply addressing the the way alot of people like to convict before all evidence is present or the way some elitist like to accuse of things they most likely are no better for. As for Rob Ford being a buffon. Everyones a buffoon to someone.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

                              Originally posted by Golden Bear
                              Actually, it IS a good point. And it proves my point.

                              "Redneck" is derogatory slang. It is listed as such in the dictionary. It has long been derogatory.

                              If I was a politician and was saying that our local workers should have the same work ethic as the rednecks who have immigrated from the US south, I'd expect to be fileted for it.
                              You sound like a politician with all your views and expert knowledge in every area of the public. You should run for an mp, maybe a good opportunity to represent one of your many causes.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Boy Scout Rob Ford charged with assault and uttering death threats

                                Originally posted by Golden Bear
                                Okay. List my sins.
                                I don't need to list them but unless your Jesus Christ you have them.


                                Originally posted by Golden Bear
                                If someone makes one comment because they slipped, didn't understand the nature of a word, etc., that's one thing. Rob Ford is a repeat offender. I can't imagine he didn't know "gino" was offensive. I can't imagine he didn't think there was something offensive about screaming "get a job" to homeless people. I can't imagine he didn't know someone would take being called "waste of skin" in a bad way.

                                What are his redeeming qualities, exactly? That he calls city hall to account but doesn't think he himself should be called to account when he sidesteps policy on filing receipts? Hey, he raises a fuss about waste at city hall, and that's a good thing. I'm not going to argue that. But that seems to be the only thing he's got going for him. He seems to have a lot more bad qualities than good qualities.
                                Yeah, yeah we've been over all that. Rob Ford is a bad guy with no redeeming qualities according to you. If them other polititcians weren't so dam smart we could out them all.

                                Comment

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