Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

[Cowboy]

Looking for some insight on the less loft/lower CG iron design.

Is this design better, or simply different? Unless you have what a perceived issue with how far you hit club X, does it matter?

Or is the new technology beneficial in the fact that more distance with a shorter club can equal more control? Control/accuracy is more of my concern here.

If said distance iron is longer because the low CG produces less spin, will it be more difficult to hold greens, or will it be the same/easier because you can hit a shorter club in and get a better landing angle to make up for it?

[Weirfan]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

Lots of factors come into play, iron head design is just one of them.

IMO, along with distance control, trajectory control is the most important factor in good scoring (not counting for swing flaws ).
Pros control their trajectory depending on conditions and the shot they want to hit.
Some ams need the benefit of the iron design to elevate the ball and to achieve distance. For others, the higher and longer the ball is in the air, the harder it is to control and the more factors like wind come into play both down and into it, leading to distance and accuracy issues.

[ctv1]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

One other benefit is whatever your longest club is it will go 10 to 15 yards longer. In my case this is significant because it allows me to hit an iron on a couple par 3s on my home course where I might otherwise have to hit a hybrid. I'd much rather be hitting an iron versus a hybrid on a par 3.

[Jeffc]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

One other benefit is whatever your longest club is it will go 10 to 15 yards longer. In my case this is significant because it allows me to hit an iron on a couple par 3s on my home course where I might otherwise have to hit a hybrid. I'd much rather be hitting an iron versus a hybrid on a par 3.

this is a big deal for me. I'd much rather have an iron in my hand if accuracy is the issue. Not only on par 3's but on a number of approach shots as well. I could care less about jacked lofts.

[Tintin]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

If you can control the jacked lofts of the longer irons then go for them. Problem though is some of those clubs are too long for mid handicappers.
I don't think most need longer short irons. If you have not come across the following article before Wishon explains the 38/24 rule. See myth #1

http://www.rickscustomfitgolf.com/images/12mythsBook.pdf

I also find the following article very interesting .If I were to buy another set of irons right now I would be very tempted by the Apex although not sure I could it the 3 and 4 really well

http://www.callawaygolfpreowned.com/golf-clubs/iron-sets/irons-2014-apex.html

http://www.golfwrx.com/378150/head-to-head-testing-callaways-2016-apex-and-apex-pro-irons/

[Jeffc]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

If you can control the jacked lofts of the longer irons then go for them. Problem though is some of those clubs are too long for mid handicappers.
I don't think most need longer short irons. If you have not come across the following article before Wishon explains the 38/24 rule. See myth #1

http://www.rickscustomfitgolf.com/images/12mythsBook.pdf

I also find the following article very interesting .If I were to buy another set of irons right now I would be very tempted by the Apex although not sure I could it the 3 and 4 really well

http://www.callawaygolfpreowned.com/golf-clubs/iron-sets/irons-2014-apex.html

http://www.golfwrx.com/378150/head-t...pex-pro-irons/

longest iron I hit is a 5. Anytime I can have a shorter iron in my bag it's advantageous to me and regardless I need to maintain the gaps.

[Tintin]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

longest iron I hit is a 5. Anytime I can have a shorter iron in my bag it's advantageous to me and regardless I need to maintain the gaps.

The modern 5 iron is the former 3 iron of old

5 24° RH / LH 4° 38

[Cowboy]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

If you can control the jacked lofts of the longer irons then go for them. Problem though is some of those clubs are too long for mid handicappers.
I don't think most need longer short irons. If you have not come across the following article before Wishon explains the 38/24 rule. See myth #1

http://www.rickscustomfitgolf.com/images/12mythsBook.pdf

I also find the following article very interesting .If I were to buy another set of irons right now I would be very tempted by the Apex although not sure I could it the 3 and 4 really well

http://www.callawaygolfpreowned.com/golf-clubs/iron-sets/irons-2014-apex.html

http://www.golfwrx.com/378150/head-t...pex-pro-irons/

I've read the rule yes, and wouldn't you know it, Apex is the potential replacement for my I25s.

Longer, better dispersion, but I want to make sure low spin doesn't mean I can't hold the damn green and be no further ahead. My AoA is only about negative 1.0, so I don't put a ton of spin on the ball as is. Tough to get an accurate spin number indoors right now, hence my hesitation.

[Tintin]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

I've read the rule yes, and wouldn't you know it, Apex is the potential replacement for my I25s.

Longer, better dispersion, but I want to make sure low spin doesn't mean I can't hold the damn green and be no further ahead. My AoA is only about negative 1.0, so I don't put a ton of spin on the ball as is. Tough to get an accurate spin number indoors right now, hence my hesitation.

A possible solution:

1) have the short irons bent 1 or 2 degrees weaker- if you hit down on the ball- that will not be a cause for concern

2)Mix and match with the Apex and Apex Pro
Torn between the Apex and Apex Pro? Callaway has a third option, an Apex-Apex Pro Combo Set

[Hope469]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

Looking for some insight on the less loft/lower CG iron design.

Is this design better, or simply different? Unless you have what a perceived issue with how far you hit club X, does it matter?

Or is the new technology beneficial in the fact that more distance with a shorter club can equal more control? Control/accuracy is more of my concern here.

If said distance iron is longer because the low CG produces less spin, will it be more difficult to hold greens, or will it be the same/easier because you can hit a shorter club in and get a better landing angle to make up for it?

As per your post, accuracy and control seem to be the issues or your question. These are usually impact position problems or swing issues anyways.. if you hit a solid golf shot, holding the green will not be an issue with any club IMO. Golfers play with a variety of different trajectories depending on how they strike the ball and at what angle. The jacked lofts allow you to hit shorter clubs from longer distances right? Regardless if you hit a 5 iron or a 7 iron, if mishit, the ball will most like have improper spin to hold the green. If you are hitting a 7iron, is it really just a 6 or 5 iron now? (havent seen the clubs you speak of) New technology IMO is more for forgiveness, and the weight added to the bottoms of some irons will in theory help guide the club downward towards the ball, thus aiding in the proper angle to achieve a more optimal trajectory golf shot.

If distance is an issue the new forgiving irons especially with jacked lofts could help. If you are having difficulty "squaring" the club face at impact, this is something entirely different. It could be that you are using the incorrect shafts, club weight, or grip, or ball position, or swing transition, etc. etc. etc. I am not sure of your actual ability (or if your post is personal or not?) however new clubs are not always the answer. Lofts of clubs, more so, pw-6iron, will not really matter all that much, these are clubs we are supposed to be able to get up in the air with enough spin to hold greens in most instances. Maybe a little psychology in the new designs? All iron companies have decreased the loft in their clubs in comparison to the "traditional" irons, the only exception being the 3 and 4 iron which havent changed all the much i think.

[Cowboy]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

Hope469 - Don't have terrible swing issues. A happy 12 capper right now. Just talking technology.

Low CG is irons produces higher launch, but lower spin, and in turn more distance. Sparking discussion on whether the added distance does not come at the expense of control - the reduced spin generated by the low CG iron.

That's why Jason day in the TM commercials is always going on about the height - because people (me) are cautions that hitting a 200 yard par 3 with a 6 iron is no good if the ball rolls through the green every time. The question is - does the height adequately make up for this?

Tin-tin - Agreed. I was thinking of weakening the lofts on the ordered, and then hitting the launch monitor to tweak the gapping. Thought about the combo - I'd mixed in S55 short irons into my set before and liked it, but not sure on the Apex Pros. Will go take some swings this weekend and find out

[Tintin]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

Tin-tin - Agreed. I was thinking of weakening the lofts on the ordered, and then hitting the launch monitor to tweak the gapping. Thought about the combo - I'd mixed in S55 short irons into my set before and liked it, but not sure on the Apex Pros. Will go take some swings this weekend and find out

I was actually a bit peeved when I found out that this test was not comparing apples with apples.

http://www.golfwrx.com/378150/head-to-head-testing-callaways-2016-apex-and-apex-pro-irons/

The Apex pro 4 iron's loft is 24 degrees. The Apex CF16' 4 irons's loft is 21.5 degrees. For that test to be meaningful they should have tested the 4 pro against the 5CF. 24 *vs 24*
Cup face or not I am not sure it makes that big of a difference depending on swing speed.
See this post to add to the confusion

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/563033-yards-per-degree-of-loft/#entry4022985

[Hope469]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

Hope469 - Don't have terrible swing issues. A happy 12 capper right now. Just talking technology.

Low CG is irons produces higher launch, but lower spin, and in turn more distance. Sparking discussion on whether the added distance does not come at the expense of control - the reduced spin generated by the low CG iron.

That's why Jason day in the TM commercials is always going on about the height - because people (me) are cautions that hitting a 200 yard par 3 with a 6 iron is no good if the ball rolls through the green every time. The question is - does the height adequately make up for this?

Tin-tin - Agreed. I was thinking of weakening the lofts on the ordered, and then hitting the launch monitor to tweak the gapping. Thought about the combo - I'd mixed in S55 short irons into my set before and liked it, but not sure on the Apex Pros. Will go take some swings this weekend and find out

Yes sorry, think I guessed a little with your post. I would assume a higher launch would produce a softer landing on the green. I agree with you the club is designed this way, to hit it further with a greater probability of holding the green by way of the steeper trajectory descent. Ultimately the ball must be hit correctly with any club, from any distance, for the technology to actually have a positive effect. How will the miss hits react I wonder.?
IMO the shorter irons being "jacked" would benefit the average golfer more maybe, these are the scoring irons.. I could hit a 9iron trajectory shot, where I used to hit a 7 iron.. this however may change your wedge set up. I find longer irons are used sparingly unless the course has multiple long par 3s or reachable par 5's, both are not really "go time" aggressive shot scenarios nor are any shots over 200 yrs really.. anyways, I apologize for my last post, wasnt assuming you were not a good golfer.

[bl8d]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

Horses for courses, is what we are essentially talking.
Modern irons are made for the modern long courses with their lushly watered fairways,long carries and elevated greens.
Rick Shiels said he would not be able to play the TM770 in England were the demands of the traditional links require a more traditional iron design.

[Hope469]

Re: Distance Irons, Jacked Lofts, and Low CGs

Horses for courses, is what we are essentially talking.
Modern irons are made for the modern long courses with their lushly watered fairways,long carries and elevated greens.
Rick Shiels said he would not be able to play the TM770 in England were the demands of the traditional links require a more traditional iron design.

I guess that could be true.. I think most of the "perceived" longer distances people experience are a result of driver technology, and less spin generated of the new clubfaces, wood and irons. Not to mention the golf ball flying straighter than ever before. I have been playing golf with my father in law for a decade now, he has probably bought 4 or 5 different sets of irons over that span, funny enough, the irons he hits with most accuracy, height, and distance are the Taylor Made RAC forged irons from years ago.. the game improvement irons and low CG irons had little or no positive effect on his game.