Driver Shaft Question(s)

[Junior]

A couple months back I bought the Callaway 454. Bought it with a Stiff shaft because according to the booth at GT my swing speed is between 104 and 107mph. I spoke to some people who said that stock shafts on the Cally clubs are often poor. Right now GT has 3 shafts on sale Proforce V2, Aldila NVS, Graphite Design YS6+.

1. Does anyone have any info regarding quality of stock shafts?

2. Will changing the shaft make a noticeable difference, is it poor enough that investing $100 will make a difference to my game?

3. Which would you recommend (I know this would be based on opinion)

INFO

Callaway 454 cc head

Swing Speed 104mph

Driver Loft 10 deg

Ball flight is usually high but not ballooning high

Distance is usually 275-285

I'm a lefty and ball flight is slight right to left

Not so worried about adding distance more looking to increase % of fairways hit.

Open to any info/advice

[wormburner]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

I saw this post last week, and wanted to visit the driving range a few more times before opening my mouth. I was in the same position as you... 10* 454 with stock Callaway firm RCH shaft. I got good distance but the shot dispursion was inconsistent (beyond what I could blame on my swing.) I was hitting quite a few high fades. So I decided to swap it with the stiff V2. Holy mother of all that's good!

The distance is about 10-15 yards better - consistently, the fade is GONE, the shot dispursion is much tighter, and I was one-bouncing them against the fence at the local Launch driving range (290 yards.) I'm sure it's due to the low torque tip in the V2. It helps keep the head square at impact on slight off-centre hits but still imparts a great whip (you can feel it load on the downswing.) You can expect the lauch angle to go from high with the Cally, to mid with the V2.

Was the $100 investment worth it - damn straight! I was also lucky enough to have Jeff Swain (Swaain on this forum) do a top notch install at GT for me. This guy's the shiznit - go see him at Woodbridge GT or PM him.

Also, don't believe everyone who tells you Cally shafts are crap... they've come a long way. I had the System 60 firm shaft in my old GBBII and hit it a tonne, but you can definitely make a significant upgrade from the stock 454.

Hope this helps.

[DubRepublic]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

My golfing buddy just took his into have the shaft swapped for the very same reason. He was noticing more and more that the stock shaft just wasn't up to quality. He went with the V2 65 and I am sure as pie that he is going to do backflips when he gets to wail on it.

UST makes great sticks.

[Junior]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

Thanks for your posts guys, I was leaning towards the V2 as I don't like the NV, and the NVS launches too high. The guy at the GT here in London recommended the V2 over the others because he finds that the torque is the lowest of the 4 that I was looking at. Looking like I'm making a trip into GT this weekend unless I can find a better price at one of the other smaller Golf retailers in the area. I generally call them to see if they can be competitive on pricing. GT has it on for $89 with an install though which I feel is a damn good deal.

I'm still open to any other comments or reviews but I haven't heard a bad thing about the Proforce V2 since I began my search in Dec.

On a different note is there a grip you guys feel is best? I am leaning towards the new Winn G8's.

Thanks Wormburner and Dub for your help!

[hogannut]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

I can't stand to hear stories like this. This is why I have a problem with GT. I go GT for stuff but the reality is the store is in the business of selling golf equipment and the sales clerk is going to catch heat if he loses out on selling GT's inventory by recommending a custom shaft should be ordered. It also a hard sale to say "Ya buy this driver and let me direct you to our repair shop where we can re shaft this for you making your purchase another $100." Swing speed alone is not enough anymore to determine the proper shaft. The last 2 drivers I've bought had custom shafts and it was totally worth it. There could be literally dozens of options on shafts that fit your wing speed. Torque, kick points, launch angles all have to be considered. Also another factor is manufactuerers want to save $ on production and in the past they have done that by putting low grade shafts in their drivers. This has improved in recent years though. The reality is unless the RCGA/USGA changes their limitations on driver technology your current 454 Big Bertha is the most advanced driver you will ever be able to buy in terms of size and COR, so instead of buying the latest and greatest every 3-5 years, spend the $ and put in a proper shaft for you and play the driver for the next 10 years. When tour palyers are struggling and go to their equipment reps the first thing they do is check the shaft and make sure it is correct for the player, particularily if the player likes the look of the club head. Custom fitted shafts have improved my distance and accuracy and I would never buy another off the rack driver again.

I can't stand to hear stories like this. This is why I have a problem with GT. I go GT for stuff but the reality is the store is in the business of selling golf equipment and the sales clerk is going to catch heat if he loses out on selling GT's inventory by recommending a custom shaft should be ordered. It also a hard sale to say "Ya buy this driver and let me direct you to our repair shop where we can re shaft this for you making your purchase another $100." Swing speed alone is not enough anymore to determine the proper shaft. The last 2 drivers I've bought had custom shafts and it was totally worth it. There could be literally dozens of options on shafts that fit your wing speed. Torque, kick points, launch angles all have to be considered. Also another factor is manufactuerers want to save $ on production and in the past they have done that by putting low grade shafts in their drivers. This has improved in recent years though. The reality is unless the RCGA/USGA changes their limitations on driver technology your current 454 Big Bertha is the most advanced driver you will ever be able to buy in terms of size and COR, so instead of buying the latest and greatest every 3-5 years, spend the $ and put in a proper shaft for you and play the driver for the next 10 years. When tour palyers are struggling and go to their equipment reps the first thing they do is check the shaft and make sure it is correct for the player, particularily if the player likes the look of the club head. Custom fitted shafts have improved my distance and accuracy and I would never buy another off the rack driver again.

Go to golfsmith.com and look in graphite shafts and you will see all the different shafts for your swing speed and you will notice a difference in pretyy much all of them. Pro Force is a good shaft, that was my previous shaft. My current is Graphlloy Blue.

I can't stand to hear stories like this. This is why I have a problem with GT. I go GT for stuff but the reality is the store is in the business of selling golf equipment and the sales clerk is going to catch heat if he loses out on selling GT's inventory by recommending a custom shaft should be ordered. It also a hard sale to say "Ya buy this driver and let me direct you to our repair shop where we can re shaft this for you making your purchase another $100." Swing speed alone is not enough anymore to determine the proper shaft. The last 2 drivers I've bought had custom shafts and it was totally worth it. There could be literally dozens of options on shafts that fit your wing speed. Torque, kick points, launch angles all have to be considered. Also another factor is manufactuerers want to save $ on production and in the past they have done that by putting low grade shafts in their drivers. This has improved in recent years though. The reality is unless the RCGA/USGA changes their limitations on driver technology your current 454 Big Bertha is the most advanced driver you will ever be able to buy in terms of size and COR, so instead of buying the latest and greatest every 3-5 years, spend the $ and put in a proper shaft for you and play the driver for the next 10 years. When tour palyers are struggling and go to their equipment reps the first thing they do is check the shaft and make sure it is correct for the player, particularily if the player likes the look of the club head. Custom fitted shafts have improved my distance and accuracy and I would never buy another off the rack driver again.


Go to golfsmith.com and look in graphite shafts and you will see all the different shafts for your swing speed and you will notice a difference in pretyy much all of them. Pro Force is a good shaft, that was my previous shaft. My current is Graphlloy Blue.

Sorry for posting this twice!!

[DubRepublic]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

Every club in my bag has a custom shaft in it. The off the shelf stock shafts are made to be right down the middle in terms of specs. They are made to be very general.

Think of it this way, do mens suits only come off the rack and in one size? And then do you expect it to fit you perfectly? No. It needs to be tailored to fit your body shape.

The same goes for your equipment.

Mind you the V2 is a great stick and UST makes quality products. But you might find another shaft a little more tweeked to what you need. Try checking out fujikura, mistsubishi and grafalloy.

[Junior]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

Hey Hogannut,

I'm a bit confused by your post. I understand that the folks at GT are paid to sell. I do take what they tell me with a grain of salt because of that fact. The reason I purchased the 454 was the club I was using was nonconforming to the rules. Not that I am an excellent golfer or anything but I like to play by the rules so I made the purchase. I also managed to pick the 454 up at GT for $150 believe it or not. I was later told by people that I golf with that the stock shafts are generally not great compared to many after market shaft. So my thought was that If I paid another $100 for a shaft I'd have a $250 driver that I can use for years to come. The reason I posed the question was to hear opinion from people who had no vested interest in me purchasing a shaft. People, like your self, who would give an honest opinion and had nothing to gain or lose by it. I went in and hit the NV, NVS, YS6 and V2 and eliminated the NVS and NV due to some personal dislikes. I'm very happy with my driving distance, I just want to work on keeping my drives tighter and the shaft as you mentioned is key to making that happen.

I appreciate your honesty and I understand your dislike towards buying things just because GT or whoever tells you to. I was just looking for some unbiased opinions.

Thanks

[Junior]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

Well I have the Proforce V2 Installed now! It's a different looking shaft, yellow silver and black. I have a couple of questions as I think there are some GT people on here.

1. There is now paint that has been flaked or scratched off where they inserted the shaft (hossle) is that normal?

2. They said it was glued on Wednesday Night, when I picked it up on Thursday night I wanted to swing it to see if it made a difference and to make sure that head wouldn't come flying off. They said not to swing it for a couple days to let the epoxy dry?

3. The shaft label/writing is facing down, is this because they aligned the strong/weak point of the shaft? or just because they threw it in that way and didn't care to align the shaft label with the top?

If anyone has any experience building drivers and has any input I'd appreciate it. My club head is a Callaway 454 incase that makes it any easier or more difficult to re-shaft.

I plan to go in tonight to hit it so that I'm sure it's not going to fall apart, and if something isn't right they can fix it now instead of having to argue about it in 2 months when I can hit a range.

[Golfbum]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

Well I have the Proforce V2 Installed now! It's a different looking shaft, yellow silver and black. I have a couple of questions as I think there are some GT people on here.

1. There is now paint that has been flaked or scratched off where they inserted the shaft (hossle) is that normal?


2. They said it was glued on Wednesday Night, when I picked it up on Thursday night I wanted to swing it to see if it made a difference and to make sure that head wouldn't come flying off. They said not to swing it for a couple days to let the epoxy dry?

3. The shaft label/writing is facing down, is this because they aligned the strong/weak point of the shaft? or just because they threw it in that way and didn't care to align the shaft label with the top?


If anyone has any experience building drivers and has any input I'd appreciate it. My club head is a Callaway 454 incase that makes it any easier or more difficult to re-shaft.

I plan to go in tonight to hit it so that I'm sure it's not going to fall apart, and if something isn't right they can fix it now instead of having to argue about it in 2 months when I can hit a range.

1.Not in my books, that is not normal. That is caused by a poor installation of the shaft. I would not be happy if that was my driver.

2.I once had a steel shaft put in a driver head, and it had to be shimmed. It was installed in the evening, I picked it up the next morning and went to the course and played with it. No problems. I find it hard to beleive the epoxy needs 2-3 days to dry. That epoxy sets up quickly.

3.Sounds like they did not align anything, they just put the shaft into the head and that was the end of that. Again poor installation, not acceptable. I am installing a shaft into a driver head, and I want the shaft aligned the same way it came out of the original driver head. You should expect that shaft to be aligned. Now some people do not want to see the lettering on the shaft when it is installed, that if your decision though, not GT's. Did they actually manage to align the grip properly?

I am not a club builder, but I know guys who are and all of the above you described would not be acceptable to any of them, or their customers.

[Pingnut]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

Well I have the Proforce V2 Installed now! It's a different looking shaft, yellow silver and black. I have a couple of questions as I think there are some GT people on here.

1. There is now paint that has been flaked or scratched off where they inserted the shaft (hossle) is that normal?

Sounds like someone did a sloppy job with the tip prep and the paint started to flake. Not going to effect performance but it's not pretty.

2. They said it was glued on Wednesday Night, when I picked it up on Thursday night I wanted to swing it to see if it made a difference and to make sure that head wouldn't come flying off. They said not to swing it for a couple days to let the epoxy dry?

3. The shaft label/writing is facing down, is this because they aligned the strong/weak point of the shaft? or just because they threw it in that way and didn't care to align the shaft label with the top?

Lot's of people prefer graphics down - and you never know, it might have been spined from the factory.

If anyone has any experience building drivers and has any input I'd appreciate it. My club head is a Callaway 454 incase that makes it any easier or more difficult to re-shaft.

Callaway clubs are a little more difficult to shaft because of the bore through. They are also .350 diameter. Is the V2 they put it in a .335? If so, hopefully they used a shim and not just shafting beads. That might have been the reason you were told not to hit it. How does your club sit at address - does it look level and square? Sometimes the head can turn or twist a little bit while the apoxy is drying especially when using a .335 shaft in a .350 hosel.

I plan to go in tonight to hit it so that I'm sure it's not going to fall apart, and if something isn't right they can fix it now instead of having to argue about it in 2 months when I can hit a range.

Hopefully it's all good and you find that extra accuracy with this shaft. I'm sure its fine and will work out great for you. You'll know pretty quick if something is amiss.

[Junior]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

Hey Pingnut and Golfbum,
I appreciate your responses. I can't say I'm overly happy with the service I got at GT on this one. The shaft was a good price but you think they would take the time to do it properly. I left it with them for 5 days and told them it's no rush! How can I tell if they used a shim to adapt the tip?? I'm going in tonight to hit it and I'll try to talk to them about the chipped paint and ask regarding the alignment of the shaft. What are the chances of it being spine aligned vs. lazy workmanship?
What bothers me is I have only had this driver for 2 months and now it's chipped at no fault of mine. I know there are good club fitters and workers at GT, I just feel that I got a bad one at the GT in London on this job. I went to their fitting workshop last weekend and planned on having my irons fitted but after this experience I think I'll go somewhere else.

[hogannut]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

Hey Hogannut,

I'm a bit confused by your post. I understand that the folks at GT are paid to sell. I do take what they tell me with a grain of salt because of that fact. The reason I purchased the 454 was the club I was using was nonconforming to the rules. Not that I am an excellent golfer or anything but I like to play by the rules so I made the purchase. I also managed to pick the 454 up at GT for $150 believe it or not. I was later told by people that I golf with that the stock shafts are generally not great compared to many after market shaft. So my thought was that If I paid another $100 for a shaft I'd have a $250 driver that I can use for years to come. The reason I posed the question was to hear opinion from people who had no vested interest in me purchasing a shaft. People, like your self, who would give an honest opinion and had nothing to gain or lose by it. I went in and hit the NV, NVS, YS6 and V2 and eliminated the NVS and NV due to some personal dislikes. I'm very happy with my driving distance, I just want to work on keeping my drives tighter and the shaft as you mentioned is key to making that happen.

I appreciate your honesty and I understand your dislike towards buying things just because GT or whoever tells you to. I was just looking for some unbiased opinions.

Thanks

The current head size for USGA rules is 460 c.c. and the COR cannot be higher than 0.83. I am assuming the clubhead is 454 c.c. and that COR is within those guidelines. I don't mind GT for stuff like balls, gloves, gifts etc, but I have found since I have been using a shaft that has been fitted to my desired swing speed and launch angle I am hitting further and straighter.

[Pingnut]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

It might say on the shaft what the tip size is. So it's the club head - not the shaft that's flaking paint? I'd be a little pissed. Getting stuff done at GT is so hit and miss on who's going to do it and how carefull they are. I've had regrips done and had 1/2 gouges in $300 graphite shafts that show from below the grip where some SOB hacked it with a hooked blade. That's why I'm starting to learn how to do this stuff myself. When I my new Fuji Saphire shaft arrives for my Hybrid - I'm going to go see Swaain if he's available.

[hogannut]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

Hey Pingnut and Golfbum,
I appreciate your responses. I can't say I'm overly happy with the service I got at GT on this one. The shaft was a good price but you think they would take the time to do it properly. I left it with them for 5 days and told them it's no rush! How can I tell if they used a shim to adapt the tip?? I'm going in tonight to hit it and I'll try to talk to them about the chipped paint and ask regarding the alignment of the shaft. What are the chances of it being spine aligned vs. lazy workmanship?
What bothers me is I have only had this driver for 2 months and now it's chipped at no fault of mine. I know there are good club fitters and workers at GT, I just feel that I got a bad one at the GT in London on this job. I went to their fitting workshop last weekend and planned on having my irons fitted but after this experience I think I'll go somewhere else.

I don't want to jump in the middle of this one, but this sounds ridiculous. This is why I try to order the shaft straight from the manufacturer, which is why I don't support GT's way of selling equipment. I have worked for 2 national distributors of golf equipment: Maxfli (before Taylor bought them) and Spalding (before Callaway bought them) and this just doesn't sound right. I would demand the shaft be replaced, or better yet e mail Callaway and ask if the shaft you chose is a shaft available from Callaway. If it is I would tell GT you want the driver sent into Callaway for the re-shaft. I still know the people there who assemble and they are top notch. Callaway/ Hogan did a first rate job on my Grafalloy Blue in my CS3 driver.

[Junior]

Re: Driver Shaft Question(s)

Update
I went to GT tonight, had a conversation with the repair guy (not the one who did the work) he agreed that it was a poor job and has taken it back. He is going to speak with the guy who did the work and he plans to send it back to Callaway as he feels the origional shaft was over glued?? So the paint was pulled off when the stock shaft was removed..... not sure that I believe the story but regardless he intends to send it back to Callaway and ask them to send me a new one with my Proforce V2 installed from the factory.
I'll believe it all when I see it but step 1 was getting them to agree that it was a poor job and wasn't acceptable. I fly out to beautiful cold Ottawa tomorrow for business so I won't know the outcome until Wed. Keeping my fingers crossed for a new club with factory installed V2 shaft!!! Or they could just send me an FT3 and we'll call it even