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Video Review - Decision Change

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  • #31
    Re: Video Review - Decision Change

    Originally posted by P25 View Post
    Golf is the only sport - team or otherwise - that allows viewers to affect the outcome of an event. It's mind boggling that people think this is ok.
    So if the viewer had not called in to the committee but had simply posted on twitter/youtube so the rest of the world would see, what would your reaction be to seeing a different winner? ie one who had breached a rule and not been penalised.
    Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
    - Chi Chi Rodriguez

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    • #32
      Re: Video Review - Decision Change

      Originally posted by P25 View Post
      I'm sorry. You're just proving how out of touch with reality you are.

      When the ruling bodies do inevitably change the rules to disallow call ins altogether, what will you say? Do you ever think rules should change? Or do you think the game of golf is perfect as it is?

      Is tennis a team sport? Boxing? Golf is the only sport - team or otherwise - that allows viewers to affect the outcome of an event. It's mind boggling that people think this is ok.
      It's even more mind boggling that you are not interested in ensuring that the results of a tournament are right and fair, OR, you are OK with someone who does NOT deserve to win, winning.

      Equating officiating in golf to officiating in hockey is absurd.

      BTW: The PGA Tour is adamant that they will continue investigating call-ins to ensure getting the right and fair result. I guess they understand something that many here do not.

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      • #33
        Re: Video Review - Decision Change

        Originally posted by Shadow View Post
        It's even more mind boggling that you are not interested in ensuring that the results of a tournament are right and fair, OR, you are OK with someone who does NOT deserve to win, winning.

        Equating officiating in golf to officiating in hockey is absurd.

        BTW: The PGA Tour is adamant that they will continue investigating call-ins to ensure getting the right and fair result. I guess they understand something that many here do not.
        Happens all the time in every other sport. Calls are missed. Life moves on. Sport isn't perfect. I'm OK with it. It's not absurd. It's all sport. Furthermore until every shot is recorded then it is not fair and equitable.
        MEMBER OF THE 2012 AND 2015 RYDER CUP CHAMPS!

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        • #34
          Re: Video Review - Decision Change

          Originally posted by Jeffc View Post
          until every shot is recorded then it is not fair and equitable.
          This is true. I suppose one could argue that it's not as critical to the outcome whether somebody who sits in 77th spot did what Lexi did, but perhaps it could mean the difference between making a cut or not so it is an issue that the Tours need to understand is not fair and equitable in the current way.

          In terms of other sports Video review was implemented for just these reasons so that the outcomes of games do not hinge on errors and missed calls. Some missed calls are inconsequential ( a missed slash ) but EVERY goal now is pretty much analysed by each team's video review for offside, goalie interference and every close okay in baseball is as well, so not much of importance gets missed. Nobody wants to see a team win the Stanley Cup on a goal that was called a goal but wasn't or the Super Bowl won on a catch and run where the player stepped out at the 20 yard line. Likewise nobody wants to see a player win a Major when they clearly broke the rules in golf.

          I don't know how many call ins there are in golf each week that each event reviews but I'm guessing there are a number of them. We only ever see and hear about a couple a year so is it really that big an issue? the caller in this case led to a penalty ruling bybthe officials and prevented an egregious misjustice from happening.

          I go back and forth on call ins in golf. I want to see the deserving winner win. It would have been horrible had Lexi been crowned the winner and this evidence come out after the fact. The legitimacy of Her major would be forever questioned Also, The caller is not making a ruling, they are just identifying a potential rules violation and questioning a situation.....its the officials who investigate and rule, not terribly unlike a team challenge in hockey or baseball. Sure golf call ins aren't in the game but one could argue that baseball and hockey teams now have people watching every play from a room somewhere and who's sole purpose is to call to the coach to make a challenge or not.

          Video review is permanent part of all pro sports now and as we have seen there are strong reasons that it probably needs to be part of golf as well. IMO the Tours need to improve the process though and make it fair and equitable across the board, how they do this ? Golf playing field is enormous compared to a ball field or hockey rink, hard and impractical to cover it. Would it be easier to have every player assigned an individual videographer or Rules official who monitors their play the whole round? , players self monitor ( but we see they make mistakes) and playing partners are supposed to but usually are too busy focussing on their own game tondo it justice.
          Last edited by Weirfan; Apr 29, 2017, 09:37 AM.
          "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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          • #35
            Re: Video Review - Decision Change

            Originally posted by aaagc View Post
            So if the viewer had not called in to the committee but had simply posted on twitter/youtube so the rest of the world would see, what would your reaction be to seeing a different winner? ie one who had breached a rule and not been penalised.
            Originally posted by Shadow View Post
            It's even more mind boggling that you are not interested in ensuring that the results of a tournament are right and fair, OR, you are OK with someone who does NOT deserve to win, winning.

            Equating officiating in golf to officiating in hockey is absurd.

            BTW: The PGA Tour is adamant that they will continue investigating call-ins to ensure getting the right and fair result. I guess they understand something that many here do not.
            Remember, it's only cheating if you get caught.
            When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.

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            • #36
              Re: Video Review - Decision Change

              Originally posted by LobWedge View Post
              Remember, it's only cheating if you get caught.
              Cheating implies intent. Don't think anybody is saying Lexi intentionally made her incorrect mark , but she did break the rules of golf and deserved to be penalized. That fact is irrefutable.
              "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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              • #37
                Re: Video Review - Decision Change

                Originally posted by A Man Called Papa;1654021[B
                ]What many of you fellows always seem to miss is that "public opinion", including the tours and individual pros, has little or nothing directly to do with how the RofG are administered.[/B] We can debate whether or not this is a good thing, but there is no doubt that this is the case.
                Originally posted by Shadow View Post
                Would you care to provide an example of two of how golf ruling bodies, the R&A and the USGA, treat those you listed with "such disdain?"
                I think Papa's post made that clear, I was just asking why.

                Originally posted by aaagc View Post
                So if the viewer had not called in to the committee but had simply posted on twitter/youtube so the rest of the world would see, what would your reaction be to seeing a different winner? ie one who had breached a rule and not been penalised.
                I would be okay with 90% of the call-in infractions being left as is. I'd be unhappy with 10%. So.... on the whole, I'd be happier if we banned call-ins. It would still be imperfect, but that's life.
                "Confusion" will be my epitaph
                ...Iggy

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                • #38
                  Re: Video Review - Decision Change

                  Originally posted by Jeffc View Post
                  Happens all the time in every other sport. Calls are missed. Life moves on. Sport isn't perfect. I'm OK with it. It's not absurd. It's all sport. Furthermore until every shot is recorded then it is not fair and equitable.
                  Sorry Jeff, not gonna happen.

                  Firstly, it would be a logistical nightmare and financially prohibitive to do this. Secondly, players on tour are fully aware that there's a possibility that they could be captured on video at anytime during the tournament, and they're expected to conduct themselves properly, and within the rules at all times. Thirdly, unlike other major sports, the players are paid solely based on performance and are essentially playing with house money every time they tee it up. For this reason, it's especially important to explore ALL available evidence when there is a possibility that a ruling could effect the other player's positions, and subsequent payouts.
                  When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Video Review - Decision Change

                    Originally posted by LobWedge View Post
                    Sorry Jeff, not gonna happen.

                    Firstly, it would be a logistical nightmare and financially prohibitive to do this. Secondly, players on tour are fully aware that there's a possibility that they could be captured on video at anytime during the tournament, and they're expected to conduct themselves properly, and within the rules at all times. Thirdly, unlike other major sports, the players are paid solely based on performance and are essentially playing with house money every time they tee it up. For this reason, it's especially important to explore ALL available evidence when there is a possibility that a ruling could effect the other player's positions, and subsequent payouts.
                    3rd point is not exclusive to golf.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Video Review - Decision Change

                      Originally posted by LobWedge View Post
                      Sorry Jeff, not gonna happen.

                      Firstly, it would be a logistical nightmare and financially prohibitive to do this. Secondly, players on tour are fully aware that there's a possibility that they could be captured on video at anytime during the tournament, and they're expected to conduct themselves properly, and within the rules at all times. Thirdly, unlike other major sports, the players are paid solely based on performance and are essentially playing with house money every time they tee it up. For this reason, it's especially important to explore ALL available evidence when there is a possibility that a ruling could effect the other player's positions, and subsequent payouts.
                      Originally posted by P25 View Post
                      3rd point is not exclusive to golf.
                      3rd point also implies that pros would prefer call-ins, but I've read specific comments by pros that say the opposite. Not that it matters, as I'm sure I heard the the rules bodies don't care what the pro tours think.
                      "Confusion" will be my epitaph
                      ...Iggy

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Video Review - Decision Change

                        Originally posted by P25 View Post
                        3rd point is not exclusive to golf.
                        You're right. I forgot tennis. Which is absolutely played 100% nothing like golf.

                        Originally posted by Ignatius Reilly View Post
                        3rd point also implies that pros would prefer call-ins, but I've read specific comments by pros that say the opposite. Not that it matters, as I'm sure I heard the the rules bodies don't care what the pro tours think.
                        The "implication" as you call it, is to use every bit of evidence at their disposal to get the call RIGHT within the rules. And in Lexi's case (where this discussion came from in the first place) the ruling was made by the tour, not the ruling body.
                        When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Video Review - Decision Change

                          Originally posted by Jeffc View Post
                          Happens all the time in every other sport. Calls are missed. Life moves on. Sport isn't perfect. I'm OK with it. It's not absurd. It's all sport.
                          Your (plural) equating golf with "every other sport" is the problem. Golf officiating standards are much higher than "every other sport" and the means exist to get results that are closer to perfection. So why not use them?

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                          • #43
                            Re: Video Review - Decision Change

                            Originally posted by Shadow View Post
                            Your (plural) equating golf with "every other sport" is the problem. Golf officiating standards are much higher than "every other sport" and the means exist to get results that are closer to perfection. So why not use them?
                            Because having viewers call in is idiotic?
                            MEMBER OF THE 2012 AND 2015 RYDER CUP CHAMPS!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Video Review - Decision Change

                              Originally posted by LobWedge View Post
                              Sorry Jeff, not gonna happen.

                              Firstly, it would be a logistical nightmare and financially prohibitive to do this. Secondly, players on tour are fully aware that there's a possibility that they could be captured on video at anytime during the tournament, and they're expected to conduct themselves properly, and within the rules at all times. Thirdly, unlike other major sports, the players are paid solely based on performance and are essentially playing with house money every time they tee it up. For this reason, it's especially important to explore ALL available evidence when there is a possibility that a ruling could effect the other player's positions, and subsequent payouts.
                              You made my point. If it is so important since every stroke is so important then you need to cover every shot if indeed that is how you are going to officiate things.
                              MEMBER OF THE 2012 AND 2015 RYDER CUP CHAMPS!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Video Review - Decision Change

                                Originally posted by Jeffc View Post
                                You made my point. If it is so important since every stroke is so important then you need to cover every shot if indeed that is how you are going to officiate things.
                                Yes, agree. Every single shot. Not just those in contention on weekends. If the tours wish to do so that's fine. Just take the couch potato's at home out of the equation. No call from fans ever.

                                Comment

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