Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

[davepratt]

Re: Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

I dunno. What if the bunker shot was rolling at a speed that would have left it right next to the hole? Instead of ending up next to the hole, the ball ends up stopping dead 4ft away.

For this to be a penalty, the players would have had to have an agreement. They did not. No penalty.

Fair enough but would you have marked the ball in match play?

[gotogolf]

Re: Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

As stated means very little but in this case only could assist.

Just seemed very odd.

[nearace]

Re: Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

So you are saying Zach knew he could make that shot that way.??

of course ,that's why it was left there.

[P25]

Re: Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

Fair enough but would you have marked the ball in match play?

I'm not sure where the other guy was. Do we know he was close to the green? I certainly wouldn't run to the green to mark it, nor would I wait for the other guy if I'm in the bunker.

[P25]

Re: Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

As stated means very little but in this case only could assist.

Just seemed very odd.

No. It could have hurt. It was lucky it helped.

[aaagc]

Re: Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

This inaction is getting very prevalent in pro golf and the referees are not jumping on it.

22/7 Ball Assisting Fellow-Competitor on Putting Green; Procedure for Referee If Competitor Does Not Lift Ball
Q.In stroke play, a competitor's ball is in a position to assist the play of a fellow-competitor and the competitor is in a position to lift the ball under Rule 22-1 without delaying the fellow-competitor's play. However, the competitor does not take any action to invoke the Rule. Would a referee be justified in intervening and requesting the competitor to invoke the Rule to protect himself and the rest of the field?

A.Yes. If the competitor were to object, there would be strong evidence of an agreement not to lift the ball for the purpose of assisting the fellow-competitor in breach of Rule 22-1. The referee would be justified in so advising the competitors involved and warning that failure to lift the ball would result in disqualification under Rule 22-1.

[gotogolf]

Re: Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

No. It could have hurt. It was lucky it helped.

Not really, but why quibble?

Yes could have been on the other side and maybe added 1-2' if ricochet the other direction.

Obviously the intent wasn't to hit it, but definitely since it was short and in the vicinity of the hole, it could help and did.

Again did not matter one iota as it was a huge jump from tie for 69 to 67 and a few dollars!!!!

[mpare]

Re: Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

I agree.

No. It could have hurt. It was lucky it helped.

[JGT4]

Re: Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

A couple of points.

(1) Just for the record, Rule 22 states unequivocally "If a player considers that a ball might assist any other player he may: Lift the ball if it is his ball:or have any other ball lifted." (for a ball, read any ball)

So if competitor A's ball is in a position to help competitor B, fellow-competitor C can insist that A mark and lift his ball before B plays. If A refuses, he is disqualified under Rule 3-4 for denying C his rights. Furthermore, competitor B cannot insist that A leaves his ball in place - he can ask, but if he does so and A complies, Decision 22/6 says that both players are disqualified under Rule 22-1. (There has been an implicit agreement given A's inaction after the request.)

(2) The Decision regarding whether or not a referee (rules official) should intervene if A's ball might assist B has been quoted. However, in this case, as in many we see on television, where is the nearest referee situated who can see this going on? He is likely some distance away, outside the ropes. Referees do not typically stand by a green watching golf.

(3) I.M.O., in these situations the player playing the stroke is intending to hole the shot, even from a bunker, and is not thinking of a plan B involving another ball.

[68shark]

Re: Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

In the late 80's this happened to me, sort of.

Was over the green on a par 3 at Glen Cedars. Had to chip out of the edge of trees. Let's just say the shot that put me there was not a thing of beauty. Nor was my effort at extrication, basically a skull that rapidly ran across the green and struck another ball about 3' from the hole and jumped 90 degrees right and into the cup. Nice bird! I knew how the rule worked. My friend said that doesn't count. I told him yes it does and your ball is replaced as close as we can reasonably guess the position without penalty to anyone.

The golf Gods have been getting even (and more) with me ever since.

[Big Shooter]

Re: Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

My friend said that doesn't count. I told him yes it does and your ball is replaced as close as we can reasonably guess the position without penalty to anyone.

Don't leave us hanging....did he make his putt?

[A Man Called Papa]

Re: Zach Johnson ricochet hole out

I used to play fairly regularly with a fellow who would always say something like, "Would you like me to throw a spot on that for you Pat?", whenever his ball might potentially assist me on the green. Of course, the real answer would be no. But I always wondered if I might be flirting with DQ if I did not say yes.