Dan's True Length Technology

[Tintin]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

Hey Weirfan,
I spent some time with Bryson Dechambeau and his "team" at the US Open and it was really interesting understanding everything they did to create his set.
The question that I have for you or anyone else trying a single length set, is how do you handle the head weight issue? Obviously, standard weight heads will produce wonky swing weights and shaft flexes.

SL iron heads are available. Same weight, same lie,same offset, same bounce except for the wedges:

http://www.valuegolf.com/pinhawk-sl-single-length-iron-heads

Here is Tutelman's latest update on the matter:

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/clubs/OneClub.php

Is your first name Mark?

[TLT Dan]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

I've had great success with the Maltby KE4 double screw weight heads in producing sets that only have a 1" total length differential from a 4 - wedge.

The screws add the opportunity of increasing the light heads for the long irons by 20g's (plus a tip weight) allowing the reduced length long irons have a decent swing weight. Just like gbr questioned above traditional sets will require massive amounts of lead tape to increase the head weight to what is required for decent feel.

Not exactly single length but when compared to the stock sets out there that have 3.5 - 4" total range when comparing a 4 to a wedge, the 1" total length differential is far more manageable and will be very helpful to many players who struggle with the long irons.

We all struggle with long irons being too long, so TLT can still offer reduced length increments. A standard TLT set will have under 3" when comparing the longest to the shortest, but with my latest program I can reduce this total range down to a single inch (providing the right heads are used).

[TLT Dan]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

Although I didn't come see you Dan I 100% agree with everything you say here.

I went out on a limb and decided to have my 9-LW built same length and lie early this year. I always felt like I had to bend and squat too much with my scoring clubs and I couldn't be happier. I struggled to hit wedges on line and found myself standing up through the shot consistently. I was more confident hitting a 7i close than a SW which didn't make the game very enjoyable especially when hitting the driver well.

Being somewhat tall I liked over length irons but the long irons started to become a little much and Underlength sets were great until I got to the scoring clubs.

Now I'm a 1/4" under and 9-LW matching and don't think I'll ever go back.

They felt a little off due to Swing weight for a few swings then it was like riding a bike. I can still choke up if I need to hit specific shots but have found it to be a great help overall.

Now that I'm in Hampton essentially every other week I may just have to come see you and get a proper TLT set built this year

Just make an appointment so you can drop by for a better understanding of what TLT has to offer. The nice thing is TLT fits tall players just as well as it fits small player. The 16 fitting charts cover a huge range from - a giant of a man to a petite woman - both will be fit athletically and will remain athletic for every club.

[gbrgolf]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

I've had great success with the Maltby KE4 double screw weight heads in producing sets that only have a 1" total length differential from a 4 - wedge.

The screws add the opportunity of increasing the light heads for the long irons by 20g's (plus a tip weight) allowing the reduced length long irons have a decent swing weight. Just like gbr questioned above traditional sets will require massive amounts of lead tape to increase the head weight to what is required for decent feel.

Not exactly single length but when compared to the stock sets out there that have 3.5 - 4" total range when comparing a 4 to a wedge, the 1" total length differential is far more manageable and will be very helpful to many players who struggle with the long irons.

We all struggle with long irons being too long, so TLT can still offer reduced length increments. A standard TLT set will have under 3" when comparing the longest to the shortest, but with my latest program I can reduce this total range down to a single inch (providing the right heads are used).

Thanks Dan, Honestly didn't realize there were so many options for heads available.
I just want everyone to realize that they shouldn't/can't just cut a set to one length and get results. It's important to see someone like Dan to do TLT or "constant length" properly.

[Kona Golf]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

SL iron heads are available. Same weight, same lie,same offset, same bounce except for the wedges:

http://www.valuegolf.com/pinhawk-sl-single-length-iron-heads

We will have the "new" Pinhawks in stock in January. They are sitting in Buffalo waiting for me to pick them up. They recently added 4i, sw,gw,& LW, as well as a new hybrid. In doing so they also tweaked the lofts on the entire set.

http://konagolfsales.com/single-length-irons/

[TourIQ]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

Not exactly single length but when compared to the stock sets out there that have 3.5 - 4" total range when comparing a 4 to a wedge, the 1" total length differential is far more manageable and will be very helpful to many players who struggle with the long irons.

Not exactly single length, but if the irons changed in length by 3/8" in length (vs. full 1/2") + constant length 9/P/G/S/L, then the total length differential is cut in half ... essentially < 2 inch and not up to 4 inch for 4i to Lw.

This might be a compromised option to consider if you are partial to a particular iron design like an AP2 or i20/i25. Some of the top selling conventional Name Brand heads have more curb appeal (and maybe better design considerations) than say a single length head or a component offering.

Personally the Pinhawk doesn't appeal to me.

Guessing ahead, I feel I may not be able to adapt to such a long LW & SW for the shots I have learned to play. So I may end up chopping those 2 clubs down to my preferred lengths and tweak the lies accordingly. For me, I view 3i-to-GW as full-shot clubs, no need for finesse'ability as far as my game/style is concerned.

Andy I believe you will eventually adopt, so don't be too quick to get out the pipe cutter.

[TourIQ]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

Harry ( TourIQ) who is as knowledgeable about club building and reducing variability as anybody anywhere has advocated this here for a long time.

I've too have always preferred keeping my 4 wedges the same spec. If you carry 4 wedges and a 9 , you now have 5 scoring clubs that are the same which reduces inconsistency.

The first few sets we built were personal use for myself and the boys. From day 1 many moons ago, we were passionate about reducing variability in every aspect of the game, so it made sense to make the wedges the identical length to the 9-iron, so a modified constant length set.

I knew there were 2 schools of thought at the time, so I called Tom Wishon to inquire what he thought was best. He said its split 50:50 with the top builders. So I asked what would you do for your personal set, and he said constant length on the wedges. This was he encouragement I needed starting out, and we never deviated from this concept.

5 years later, FB would do his last Science Fair project in an attempt to get to the Worlds. He built 16 wedges (1/2 fraction factorial) and hit 920 balls over 3 days from 5 locations to determine his own fitting parameters using Design of Experiments (DOE) advanced statistics while still in middle high school. He determined the significance of 5 different club variables as main effects + every 2 factor interaction. Slightly longer (for him) was an improvement over the stock cut shorter as loft increases. The 1st season he played his new Vokey's stock, the 2nd season he played them rebuilt to his new fitting parameters, and the difference in performance was night and day different.

[TourIQ]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

The question that I have for you or anyone else trying a single length set, is how do you handle the head weight issue? Obviously, standard weight heads will produce wonky swing weights and shaft flexes.

Gawain I can't comment on single length long iron concept, but building constant length 9-iron to Lob wedge poses some unique club build challenges, to hit consistent flex with progressive swt. You can't do it with taper tip shafts, since no room for tweaking the flex from the tip end.

It starts with reaming the hosels from taper to parallel and ends with using the identical shafts from long iron to last wedge (sorry no wedge specific shafts).

SAFETY ALERT: For anyone attempting this at home, under no circumstance should you attempt to use a standard 3/8th drill bit in a drill press. 1) 3/8" is too large (what some retail shops use) and can butcher a hosel; 2) a standard drill HSS bit in a press to drill a hosel at high rpm can kill ya; and 3) if you have the proper equipment, set the drill press to 200 rpm or less. I use carbide tipped reamers.

Clubheads can vary by up to nearly 30 grams from the 9 to L, if the 9 is light on weight and the L is heavy on weight. It's possible to build to target flex +/- 2 cpm over the 5 clubs, with swt transitioning from the irons set to 6 points higher by the time you get to the Sand and Lob of blade design.

You need constant flex throughout the set, since even the wedges are used for full shots, and you want to minimize the inherent bias of dispersion which would result from too low a flex due to the heavy head weights. Scoring clubs need to hit straight and be pin seeking lasers.

[Weirfan]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

Hey Weirfan,
I spent some time with Bryson Dechambeau and his "team" at the US Open and it was really interesting understanding everything they did to create his set.
The question that I have for you or anyone else trying a single length set, is how do you handle the head weight issue? Obviously, standard weight heads will produce wonky swing weights and shaft flexes.

Yes, this is the dilemma if I want to use standard iron heads and since I am somewhat partial to only a few designs we'll have to see how it specs out.



There is the pinhawk Single length heads that have same lie and head weight and the Maltby Ke4 heads are a nce looking design with weight screws that can be exchanged for heavier . Any additional weight can be added with hosel weights

I'd like to use my Wishon 560 heads , which have a hosel weight port . the weight difference between the 8 and aw is only 10 grams so easily adjusted for with a tungsten weight and hosel weight. I'd keep my SW and LW heads heavier and adjust the shafts for flex and play them with a slightly higher swing weight which is what I do now anyways .

There's a 14 gram spread between the wishon 5 and 7 which again I can pretty much adjust for all with weight in the head .

It would be too much of a challenge to do single length from aw to 5 so why I would do a pseudo single length set and have 6 irons one length and 3 another .

I'd use .370 parallel shafts so shouldn't have any issues maintaining a consistent flex throughout the set.

[TourIQ]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

I'd like to use my Wishon 560 heads , which have a hosel weight port .

Yes the Wishon heads with hosel wt port will give you some latitude for adjustment.

[ARL67]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

Update:

As mentioned earlier, last fall I had Dan build me a set of TLT Series 7.
Heads are Mizuno MP-53 3-PW, with Nike VR Pro Forged 50,54,58 wedges. Shafts are KBS Tour V 125. My previous set for the last 2 years is MP-4 with Steelfiber i110CW. So quite different in feel from what I have now in my TLT set. FYI Dan measured a couple of my MP-4 and they were quite off in loft & lie -> reminder to get your clubs checked as they can bend /drift with regular use.

I was very diligent in the fall and up until the start of Feb, with several lessons and indoor range time, working on my game. Then other things got on the brain and I didn't touch a club for a couple months+.
I like the big layoff. It resets a lot of the brain, and mechanics, and expectations of what my clubs feel like.

So I'm back at 'er this spring, with a couple lessons, a bit of range time, and have 5 rounds under my belt. Now, there is nothing strange at all standing over the ball with ANY club in my hand. Before, I might have thought that this PW is little long, or my 7i is a little short. Specifically, I had mentioned my Lob wedge ( my surgical club ) was way too long for my liking ( previously it was probably far too short ) , but no problem with it now.

So far I am off to a great start -> contact-wise, accuracy-wise, scoring-wise. I will surely credit my lessons & range work, but the clubs deserve their credit as well. There is great familiarity in standing over a ball with the TLT set, regardless of club. This is what TLT is all about. You really don't think about TLT when you golf, it is nothing "strange". Step up to the ball, the stance & posture does not need to deviate much from club to club.

~ Andy

[nearace]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

Update:

As mentioned earlier, last fall I had Dan build me a set of TLT Series 7.
Heads are Mizuno MP-53 heads 3-PW, with Nike VR Pro Forged 50,54,58 wedges. Shafts are KBS Tour V 125. My previous set for the last 2 years is MP-4 with Steelfiber i110CW. So quite different in feel from what I have now in my TLT set. FYI Dan measured a couple of my MP-4 and they were quite off in loft & lie -> reminder to get your clubs checked as they can bend /drift with regular use.

I was very diligent in the fall and up until the start of Feb, with several lessons and indoor range time, working on my game. Then other things got on the brain and I didn't touch a club for a couple months+.
I like the big layoff. It resets a lot of the brain, and mechanics, and expectations of what my clubs feel like.

So I'm back at 'er this spring, with a couple lessons, a bit of range time, and have 5 rounds under my belt. Now, there is nothing strange at all standing over the ball with ANY club in my hand. Before, I might have thought that this PW is little long, or my 7i is a little short. Specifically, I had mentioned my Lob wedge ( my surgical club ) was way too long for my liking ( previously it was probably far too short ) , but no problem with it now.

So far I am off to a great start -> contact-wise, accuracy-wise, scoring-wise. I will surely credit my lessons & range work, but the clubs deserve their credit as well. There is great familiarity in standing over a ball with the TLT set, regardless of club. This is what TLT is all about. You really don't think about TLT when you golf, it is nothing "strange". Step up to the ball, the stance & posture does not need to deviate much from club to club.

~ Andy

what is a tlt series 7?,thanks

[TLT Dan]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

A TLT series 7 is one of 16 charts that are used as my math model for that particular build. A series 7 is loosely based on a 37" WTF dimension attempting to get the player into a correct athletic address position and keeping them there. So a series 2 would be for a small person and a series 12 is for a tall person.

The WTF is simply a starting point - then we go to the Wall of clubs to actually put a 4, 7 and pw in your hands to fine tune the fit and allow the Player to confirm the correct TLT séries.

[Triple C]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

Figured this would be the best spot to post my experience with Dan!

After playing clubs that were somewhat crudely measured to adjust for my height (6'4") for almost 10 years, I made the call and went to Hampton to see Dan. He was nothing short of amazing. As many noted, the fitting system was spot on and it was a relief to see myself standing over a ball with a proper spine tilt. Dan was fantastic in providing many options for me so that I could stay within my budget and yet reap the benefits of TLT. In a matter of days he built me a beautiful set of Wishon clubs with SCOR wedges. He shortened my driver a bit, extended and fixed the lie angle on my putter and regripped the clubs I was going to keep.

I played three rounds this weekend and it is a new experience properly standing over a ball with more freedom to swing thanks to an athletic posture. I have to remind myself that 'less is more' and to be smooth because the clubs will keep me in the proper positions no matter what club is in my hand. I hit some gorgeous shots this weekend and they are now coming more often and with more height and control. Thank you Dan!

[TourIQ]

Re: Dan's True Length Technology

Figured this would be the best spot to post my experience with Dan!

Kudos to Dan for doing a great job with Triple C